[zooropa]

I feel so, so far away from my T. We had a kind of misunderstanding or small rupture on Monday and I've been ok with it since then, basically. That really, REALLY feels like more than 2 days ago, by the way.

I think I've moved past the "T, you can't hurt me because I don't care anyway" phase and into the "oh $hit, did I push T too far? Is she gone? Is she mad at me?" insecurity. Which, considering how much time I spend in this kind of place, you'd think I'd be accustomed to it by now, but I'm not. It hurts and it's scary.

I sent T an email yesterday, just a short one asking for a letter I need from her for court. But I was hoping I'd hear back from her and feel a little connected that way. The more time that goes by without me hearing from her, the further away she feels. I'm not even sure she exists out there in the world at this point. She feels so far away, has FELT so far away, even during my session on Monday I wondered where she was, because she wasn't really there.

this is just really hard and discouraging. I don't know if I'll ever not be like this.

[Lauru]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I feel so, so far away from my T. We had a kind of misunderstanding or small rupture on Monday and I've been ok with it since then, basically. That really, REALLY feels like more than 2 days ago, by the way.

I think I've moved past the "T, you can't hurt me because I don't care anyway" phase and into the "oh $hit, did I push T too far? Is she gone? Is she mad at me?" insecurity. Which, considering how much time I spend in this kind of place, you'd think I'd be accustomed to it by now, but I'm not. It hurts and it's scary.

I sent T an email yesterday, just a short one asking for a letter I need from her for court. But I was hoping I'd hear back from her and feel a little connected that way. The more time that goes by without me hearing from her, the further away she feels. I'm not even sure she exists out there in the world at this point. She feels so far away, has FELT so far away, even during my session on Monday I wondered where she was, because she wasn't really there.

this is just really hard and discouraging. I don't know if I'll ever not be like this.

((((((((((((Zoo))))))))))) It won't last forever. I am sure you will be able to heal this rupture with your T. I am sending you good thoughts and lots of hugs

[zooropa]

Lauru, thank you. I'm sure we'll make it through this, too. But...when will I ever be able to feel okay with near-constant reassurance? What is missing in me that I can't just tell myself I AM OKAY. You know? it's really discouraging.

[googley]

((((((((Zoo))))))))

I hope your T writes you back soon. Those weeks are so hard when the days stretch out and it seems like they never end. Lots of hugs for you.

[Lauru]

Originally Posted by zooropa

Lauru, thank you. I'm sure we'll make it through this, too. But...when will I ever be able to feel okay with near-constant reassurance? What is missing in me that I can't just tell myself I AM OKAY. You know? it's really discouraging.

Zoo,

I understand. I can't tell myself that I am ok either. I always rely on others to tell me of my worth. It is discouraging, and I know it sucks. Still sending you hugs

[Verbascum]

Originally Posted by zooropa

What is missing in me that I can't just tell myself I AM OKAY.

Wow, that question really hit me. Well, I mean thinking about myself, of course. I cannot speak for you, but I must say that I always like your posts very much.

The part 'what is missing' is a great question for me. I seem to dissociate. It was very hard to even accept that. With help from my T, I (sometimes) manage to talk to my alter, and sometimes now that alter contacts me. Honestly, at those - still very rare - moments, I get a feeling of being whole. It feels like being OK - without help from outside. It happens about 0.00001 % of the time, but when it does, it's so fantastic!
It still sucks all the rest of the time it feels like missing something, yes.

[zooropa]

I think I will (attempt to) talk about this w/my T. We've talked about it on the phone a few times, but never in session. I want to ask her exactly what I posted above, what is missing in me that I cannot tell myself I'm okay? And what are we going to do to fix that?

Because it is horrible always needing that outside confirmation. It is demoralizing and inevitably the other people in my life, being people, fail me. And when that happens I feel like I've been cut adrift in space with nothing to hold on to and just floating away, forever.

thank you for understanding, PC friends

[granite1]

zoo i so understand this frustration.i write to my T in my journal and that helps me remember she is out thare.didnt you save an e mail or voice mail that was left bye her to help with this?

[zooropa]

something happened, and I just spun out. All the way out. It's 4am and I've just been laying here for hours thinking about my T and what she said and what I said, going back to the beginning of therapy and around and around and around. UGH.

It is really horrible to be caught in that whirlpool of thought and emotion and SEE yourself there but not be able to break free.

I'm going to call my T but I have to wait several hours until it's late enough to call her.

[WePow]

((((((( Zoo ))))))))) Just letting you know I am also here for you.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by granite1

zoo i so understand this frustration.i write to my T in my journal and that helps me remember she is out thare.didnt you save an e mail or voice mail that was left bye her to help with this?

I do have emails, and maybe a voicemail too actually. Thanks for reminding me, granite, and thanks for understanding

eta hugs for wepow since we cross-posted thank you

[sittingatwatersedge]

Zoo...... I am sorry you are sad but you are NOT alone.

Originally Posted by zooropa

But...when will I ever be able to feel okay with near-constant reassurance? What is missing in me that I can't just tell myself I AM OKAY. You know? it's really discouraging.

Oh ((((((((((((((zoo))))))))))))))))), I can SO relate to this.

I have needed to check with T over and over and over again through the years to make sure that I am okay, that he is okay with me, that he doesn't hate me and wish I would dissappear, that he is not tired of me or my story, etc. etc. Even in the security of the relationship now, I *still* need to check. A lot of the voice mails he leaves me after session are about that reassurance: "we're still good, I still care about you, etc etc"

I think that for me, I've never heard from ANYONE that I am okay just how I am, however that is. And after years and years and years of not hearing that, it takes a lot of "you are okay" to undo it.

It helped me a lot to talk about it to T. He told me that he would give me the reassurance for as long as I needed it, because his words are true, and because it's easy to say things that are true. And slowly, slowly, slowly over time, the need is diminishing, and I am starting to find the place inside myself that knows I am okay.

I think that we tend to put a LOT of pressure on ourselves to get better "NOW"!, and that healing doesn't happen that way. If we had cancer, we wouldn't expect ourselves to get better instantly just because we wanted to really badly. We would get our treatments and allow them to take as long as they take. This is like that. Time takes time.

You aren't alone, ((((((((((zoo)))))))))))) Keep posting, reach out to T, let yourself rest a little bit in the support that is here for you.

[Oceanwave]

Originally Posted by zooropa

The more time that goes by without me hearing from her, the further away she feels. I'm not even sure she exists out there in the world at this point. She feels so far away, has FELT so far away, even during my session on Monday I wondered where she was, because she wasn't really there.

Hi Zoo, reading the above I had this uncanny feeling that it's not really T you cannot connect with but something in yourself - as some others also pointed out. It seems to me that even during your Monday session things were off and that's more to do with you than T. Can you find that inner place (your inner T) somewhere inside you, who is there for you and looks after you?

[zooropa]

Can you find that inner place (your inner T) somewhere inside you, who is there for you and looks after you?

no. I can't.

I mean, I completely agree with what you're saying, ocean. But no, I cannot do that. I WISH I could...

thank you all for your replies. You are right, of course, I am not alone.

[Oceanwave]

Originally Posted by zooropa

no. I can't.

I mean, I completely agree with what you're saying, ocean. But no, I cannot do that. I WISH I could...

thank you all for your replies. You are right, of course, I am not alone.

I understand .

You have put that place into your T and she has gone off with it.... You will get it back one day, you will see. Until then, we are here.

[zooropa]

I think, like tree, I grew up never knowing or feeling that I was ok. That's just not something that I've ever had. So, now, I'm trying to build that. I don't WANT to be dependent on anyone for my happiness. I KNOW I have the answers within myself and the strength and the wisdom. What I don't know is how to access that in the dark moments when I'm a little girl again and scared. I need desperately to learn how to soothe that little girl and how to be okay on my own.

[zooropa]

I stayed up all night, worrying and thinking thinking thinking.

Morning finally came and I called my T and said "I just need to know that we're ok. You seemed kind of frustrated the last time we talked and...I just wanted to make sure we're ok"

And she said, "yes, zoo, we're okay". She said some other things too but yes. We're okay.

[rainbow8]

((((((((((zoo)))))))))))

I'm sorry I didn't see this thread before now. I can relate so very much to the way you feel. I also need others to tell me I'm okay. I'm learning how to feel better about myself, but I still need that outside validation, especially from my T. I wish you hadn't waited so long to call her to hear it from your T, and I'm so happy for you that she responded the way you wanted. I know that just those words "we're okay" would be enough to make the difference between despair and hope, misery and peace.

About that whirhpool of thoughts and emotions you were in: I'm obsessive too, and my thoughts go round and round about therapy and about myself. In her email to me this week, T told me to try just to notice the thoughts when that happens, like we do with breathing and she wants me to concentrate on my breath. She said I can notice those thoughts, but I don't have to give them so much power. They are just thoughts. I can say "they are there" but then let them go. I don't know if that will help you are not.

I hope the peace and calm you got from hearing your Ts reassuring voice and words will stay with you until you see her again.

[zooropa]

yes! Rainbow, mindfulness is a huge part of DBT, and my T has talked to me many times about just noticing thoughts, not having to act on them or hold onto them or push them away but just letting them come and letting them go.

that's a huge struggle for me, because I do get really obsessive sometimes. I am able to notice the thoughts now, and notice when they are irrational or don't meet the facts, but I am not able to stop them, because how can you STOP thinking something? I just wish I could turn off my brain sometimes.

And yes, peace and calm, that's exactly what I got from Ts voice. Her picking up the phone, first of all, BEING there, and then being her usual self and calm and centered and peaceful and strong, all of that. I feel like I can breathe a little bit easier.

[googley]

(((((Zoo)))))

I'm glad your T is back to her calm and centered self. It is so distressing when they are having an off day. Especially because then we worry that we caused it. I'm so glad that you two are okay. I'm glad she was there and you were able to talk to her.

[REEG]

Zoo-

I can SO relate- sometimes I think (and even say) T aren't you over all this whining yet??? And she's not, she's there and helpful and responds with compassion, and encourages me to respond this way to myself.

Glad you were able to talk with your T and get reassurance!

[Lauru]

Zoo,

Today in DBT group we talked about how feelings are not facts, they are just feelings. It is what we do with those feelings that matters. We may use them to ruminate and what if ourselves to death, or we can notice them come and go, and then use facts to lead our action. Or so they told me in group. I am still struggling with this one myself. What I feel is true I believe. But they say no. I hope they are right, because it gives me a little hope that I don't always have to be this way.

[Sannah]

Zoo, your questions take me back to child development. I have 2 girls (9 and 11) and without me they would be very lost. It takes years for children to develop into healthy adults. So many things need to be developed in a person. An identity, self worth, boundaries, social skills, competence, being able to express feelings, good problem solving, meeting your needs, etc.

What age do you feel that your emotional development is at? When I first started therapy I was probably 4 or 5 years of age in emotional development. Adults can progress much faster than children to catch up with this development but it still takes time.

You did good work on this. You identified your issue. You made a plan. And then you followed through with your plan all the time staying aware, analyzing, and accepting how you were feeling and that it was okay where you were.

Keep up this good work and you will progress very well!

[granite1]

how are things going today zoo.ill be thinking of you monday and hope your T is herself