[zooropa]

That was horrible. Maybe marginally better than last week, but not much. Horrible.

[PleaseHelp]

What was horrible? How can I help?

[geez]

(((((zoo)))))

Try to focus on the marginally better aspects of your session. This may take some time to repair.

[SpiritRunner]

yes, I agree.....try to focus on the marginally better parts of it! (((((((((zoo))))))))))

[zooropa]

it just got off on the wrong foot. I was so anxious that I couldn't come out of the bathroom until a couple minutes past, and then I went into the waiting room but it was empty and I stood there for 5 minutes and then I went outside and freaked out and walked around and then I got mad and went back in and walked back to her office, which I never do. She always comes to get me. But I did this time, and she was sitting there on the computer and I said "WTF?" and yeah. Not the best opener.

So then there was only a half hour left and I spent a lot of that time crying and a lot of it telling her not to yell at me and a lot of it freaking out about the clock ticking. I did my best to stay present. I did my best to protect myself. I did my best to stand up for myself while still owning my own huge part in all this mess.

When there were 10 minutes left I really kind of lost it. Then I stopped. I took a deep breath. I asked T if I could come see her again this week. In 2.5 years of therapy I have never asked that. She seemed surprised but she got up and said if she has an opening then I can come back in, and she had 2 openings tomorrow, so I'm going back tomorrow at 1.

I do feel like we started to get some resolution today, as messy and horrible as it was. I feel ok only because I will see her tomorrow. If I thought I had to sit on these feelings for another week the very idea would send me spinning out and out and out. But I don't have to. We can each take tonight to think about what was said today, and go back tomorrow and try to resolve this.

A lot of what we talked about was about phone calls. She has been and still is giving me very mixed messages about that. I know it's clear to HER, because she seems so frustrated at having to repeat herself, but it's not clear to me. She at first said that calls have to be for skills coaching only, period, which is a change from how things used to be. But a few minutes later she said that me calling for a quick check in is ok, too. When I pointed out to her that she was contradicting herself, she just didn't say anything.

So, it is confusing, and it is hard, and it really really sucks. I still don't know when I'm supposed to call her. I will say for the thousandth time, my life would be a whole hell of a lot easier if I just never called her, had never called her, had never had the option of calling her. So maybe that's what I need to do, just not call. Just make a rule about it for myself, for my own good, for my sanity.

I forgot to read my notes about what I wanted to talk about. I forgot I even had them. I forgot to keep breathing and I forgot to remind myself that T is trying to help me. But I survived and I did say a lot of what I wanted to say, so that's good.

[karebear1]

I'm glad your were able to say a lot of what you needed and wanted to say. that had to make you feel a lot better.

What was with the leaving you in the reception area for so long? Did she say?

[Lauru]

I'm proud of you for facing such an excruciatingly hard situation. I wish all the best and hope tomorrow goes better for you. Remember, stay strong and stand up for yourself. You deserve it!

[zooropa]

I think we just missed each other, and I really really needed her to greet me warmly and that's not what I got. God my t can be harsh and mean sometimes.

When talking about last week she said I was "sarcastic and mean," which is exactly how I felt SHE was. Reality is so subjective sometimes.

[zooropa]

Oh, she did tell me I was right about a lot of what was going on. I guess she decided I needed validation at that point. I told her I don't need to be right, I don't want to be right, I just want to feel OK.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Zoo you did a lot in just a half hour!!! also, I'm glad that you are to see her tomorrow hope that is going to go very well.
you are just trying to get the boundaries defined - that is your right - and if you are not to call her in case of crisis or a check in, she'd better be coming up with what is the thing to do - this is part of her job, it's not for you to have to figure out how she is caring for you.

Ohmygoodness ..................... what an afternoon.......... I wish you could have dinner over here tonight, take a load off yr feet (off your mind!) and just relax. I wouldn't push you to say anything. Please can I give you this you are going to be OK. please let us know how you are.

[elliemay]

I've got a really good feeling that this could turn into something wildly beneficial for you (at least I really really hope so).

I've definitely learned that if I lean into the pain, and not run away from it, that it is never as bad as I think it's going to be.

It takes a lot of guts and you've got them.

[ECHOES]

((zoo)) I think this sounds encouraging . You not only went today, and got through the really hard time, but you got to where you could allow yourself to want to see her again tomorrow and ask for that. Wow!!
That is a looong way from where you have been. That took courage to be so vulnerable, and to say those important things. I'm so glad you can see her again tomorrow!

((((((((((((((((Zoo))))))))))))))))))))

You are DOING IT. You're doing just what you need to do.

I am SO glad you see her tomorrow. That is a huge, huge relief. Try to let yourself rest a little tonight knowing that tomorrow, you'll be one step closer to a resolution.

[zooropa]

I keep remembering little things...sawe, you are so right, it was a LOT for just a half hour!

She talked about how frustrating it is for her to deal with me, how I was "sarcastic and mean" in session last week, but then called to apologize, and then said I wasn't coming, and then said I was. I told her I know that is frustrating, and it's not easy being on this side of things, either. I told her that to me it seems like textbook BPD behavior and it's not her job to get frustrated with me, it's her job to help me learn how handle it. She said she's human and can't help being frustrated, and I said maybe she needs to work on that with her consultation team and not bring her counter-transference into session. She said there is no such thing as transference or counter-transference in DBT.

She said that working through this is her way of helping me learn how to work through things in other relationships, and I told her I see that and I'm aware of that, but that no other relationship requires just one 50 minute block a week to work on things, and that is an artificial construct that is making this harder. She agreed and said that if it were another relationship we could have worked through it in 3 or 4 hours and been done with it, but that the therapeutic relationship drags it out. She used my phrase "artificial construct" a couple more times and commented that she really liked that phrase, lol!

At the very beginning I told her that what I had to say was dependent on what she had to say, and she said "I said everything I had to say last week" and so I started talking but she interrupted me after about 10 seconds

I was telling her that HER actions have caused me enormous distress and emotional suffering over the past week. I'm not sure she heard me as she interrupted right after that. I will say it again tomorrow, just in case.

I also referred to Linehan's book (CBT for BPD) several times and encouraged her to get it off of the shelf behind her and read page 501 in particular. She didn't. I like to think she did it right after I left, though.

I heard a lot of "this is my [her] fault" and "I am to blame" but I did not hear an apology. I mean, her taking ownership is good. I took ownership of my part, too. And I apologized many times over the past week. I would like to hear "I'm sorry." I will probably say that tomorrow, too. I don't really have anything left to lose at this point.

I told her that I wish she would have found a gentler way to change things, if she was set on changing them. She said "it could have been gentler, but it could have been worse too" and that's when I said I don't think it could have been much worse without her breaking some legal or ethical rule for Ts. She just repeated that it could have been worse. It's true, I guess.

thank you for letting me process this, you guys. It helps, a lot, to get it out of my head instead of letting it spin and spin in there.

[zooropa]

god, I'm re-reading what I just wrote and am kind of over the things I said. I was mean, or at the very least I wasn't very nice. I think it's a sign of how on the edge I am. I don't usually talk to anyone like that, let alone T. It's not going to do me any good to keep being snarky and snotty with her, is it?

[karebear1]

Snarky and snotty probably aren't such a good thing zoo, but, I do think your T is in need of hearing your opinion.

I could be pretty snarky right now. I'm kinda in that mood.......

*Transference/countertransference don't exist because they're not used in DBT ? Hmmmmm.........

*It could've been gentler but it could've been worse? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Sometimes people feel attacked when you come right out and say to them "You made me feel like this........" instead of saying "I felt hurt when you did/said this...". Do you see a difference? You are owning your feelings, not asking her to do that. Maybe if she heard it that way it may seem softer to her and she could sincerely accept and acknowledge the pain she's caused you. (Not that we want it to be easier for her- right? We just want it to be easier for you and if saying it in this way would do that because she would finally hear you and accept her role in this, then- hey.... ultimately that makes it easier for you! ) None of this "it could've been gentler but it could've been worse" crap. That's something my teenagers would've said.

Ah zoo............. I'm feeling so frustrated and sad and overwhelmed for you. Keep plugging away. You are a scrapper! I like that you can fight and stand up for yourself and not back away and keep fighting until you're so tuckered you can hardly move. You are resilient! I like that about you! You're my hero for that!

I'm learning so much from you. ((((((((((zoo))))))))))

[WePow]

Zoo, I am SO proud of you !!!!! You did great with trying so hard to stay present and clearly state your needs. And you did AWESOME by asking to see T again NOW !!! Remember, I had to do that - when I wanted to run the most away from T, I ran TO my T. That is the ONLY way to work this out (one way or the other). And it takes one heck of a brave person to do what you are doing by confronting this relationship in honesty and not shutting down or destroying the relationship !!! BRAVO !!!!!!

In fact, I have an idea... just thinking here. But what about if tonight you make a grocery list of sorts to take with you tomorrow? Things that you NEED from that session. Example: I NEED T to know that when T interupts me I feel invalidated.
((You use your own words of course - but just have that list of your needs))

BIG BIG hugs to you!!!!!

[swimmergirl]

(((((((((((((zoo)))))))))))))))))) Sorry this is so tough for you. Thinking of you. I'm glad you can see her tomorrow and you spoke up for yourself. That is important.

[zooropa]

oh, you guys. Thank you.

I can't tell you how much it is helping me to come here and read your messages. Thank you. I need that validation, badly. And you are helping me pinpoint what it is about my recent interactions with T that is not sitting well with me, which is vital because if I just know that it feels wrong but not what about it feels wrong then it's hard to communicate that to T.

I do believe my T has my best interests at heart. I do believe she cares about me. I also believe that she is a little caught up in her own emotional reactions and maybe isn't being the T I need and the T she wants to be right now. But, she is trying, and I am trying, and that gives me some hope.

She thanked me several times for asking to come and see her tomorrow. I don't know why, exactly, she kept thanking me, but it felt good. I will probably ask her tomorrow. It seems like right now we are talking about our relationship and nothing BUT our relationship, which is not how we usually do T. So it's the time to ask those kinds of questions I guess.

PS Wepow, as usual you have an excellent idea. I will make a list of what I need in T. I will give a copy to her and keep a copy for me. I will make sure that she knows that I'm aware that she isn't obligated to meet those needs.

[zooropa]

still swirling in my head is the idea that this is too broken to fix. I don't know if I'm trying to fix it because it's worth fixing or if I'm just afraid to let it go.

[karebear1]

It's worth the effort zoo, if you think it might be able to be fixed. I'm afraid it's not gonna be a quick resolution- it's gonna take time, but when it comes- don't you think it'll be worth all the time and frustration and effort and fighting for it that you've done?

I wrote to my T today that we just keep saying the same things to each other. That we are consistent in our messages to each other and does this mean there is no way to compromise? Is that what you're feeling?

[rainbow8]

zoo, I'm impressed with what you accomplished in your session in just half an hour!! You did good!! I think it's great that you have another appointment tomorrow and I hope you can work towards a resolution with your T. I hope that your T will really try to HEAR what you are saying to her. It doesn't seem like she is; it almost seems like she has already decided what you need and what her role is. I hope that she is willing to listen to the way you feel and tell you that she is sorry for making you feel so bad.

still swirling in my head is the idea that this is too broken to fix. I don't know if I'm trying to fix it because it's worth fixing or if I'm just afraid to let it go.

In regards to your thinking above, would you be able to ask your T that question? I don't want to confuse you, but I stayed with my former T (as you probably know since I'm a broken record about it--sorry) for about 7 years. Finally, at what would become my final session she said "I can't change the way I am". She was teary-eyed. She did therapy a certain way and it stopped helping me but I didn't want to let her go. I think your gut will tell you if you can fix it or not.

[zooropa]

that makes me so sad, rainbow. I am so sorry. I don't know if I'm at that point, but the idea makes me very, very sad.

A couple friends (not on PC) have suggested to me today that maybe it is time to take a break from therapy. I came here to post that and to say that the idea is swirling in my head and I'm having a hard time sorting it out.

Just typing that I had to stop and let myself sob. This hurts in such a deep place.

My T teared up during my session today, too. Once for sure, possibly twice. I know this isn't easy for her either.

I want to tell her that I'm sorry I have the needs I have, but I still have them. They are real. I can't make them go away by ignoring them. I don't know what to do.

[rainbow8]

I want to tell her that I'm sorry I have the needs I have, but I still have them. They are real. I can't make them go away by ignoring them. I don't know what to do.

Can you write that down and tell it to her tomorrow? I'm wondering though. If you saw a different kind of T who would let you call as much as you needed to, do you think you would feel better, or not? Maybe a T will say they will answer phone calls or emails, and then decide it's not good for you, like my T did to me. It's hard to separate what we want from what we need. I want to talk to my T every day, but it wouldn't be good for me.

My former T helped me a lot, but she didn't want to explore my childhood with me, and that's what I wanted to do. She said she was sorry she couldn't solve my "attachment" problem.

Can you ask your T directly if she thinks you and she can still work together?

Only you can decide what to do. Maybe a break, or looking into other Ts would be right for you. Or maybe not. My T says "go with your gut feeling". That's how I ended up with her, and I'm glad I did.

I hope you can get some sleep tonight and not agonize over what will be tomorrow.