[granite1]

my T wants to start mindfulness Monday.i haven't found much about it just a little and what people are saying here and i don't think i can handle it.i don't want to do it.am i just this messed up.my T is going to hate me totally.i just know i cant do any of this.i don't want to.i don't know why i don't want to but i don't and it is panicking and everything.i don't know why but i feel like i am loosing my T because of this .like she is tired of dealing with dealing with me.i just don't have any idea where all this fear is coming from .I'm sorry.i guess i just want to be miserable forever.i know my T would say that is a huge cop out but it just seems so true.it just feels like she is trying to disappear me

[skysblue]

Don't panic Granite. It's ok to tell T you can't do it. I'm always telling my T that I don't know how to do things. She's asks me, "how do you feel in your body?" and I say, "I don't know." She tell me to pay attention to my body and I'll say, "I can't do it"

Your T will understand when you tell her it's hard. Just understand what you can and what you can't can wait until later.

Anytime we try something new it's going to seem impossible. That's how I feel about mindfulness myself. But, I figure, one step at a time. Too often we think we need to do things 'right' or 'perfect' but we would never expect the 5 year old to know calculus. So, slow and steady. You and I can be partners in this new learning. I plan on going very slowly - how about you? Itsy bitsy tiny steps. OK?

[granite1]

thanks sky but i dont know why i feel like my T is trying to just get rid of me bye doing this i cant shake it it is like she hates me and wants to write me off.i know it is stupid and crazy but i goes so much deeper than feeling like i cant do this

[granite1]

sky i'm sorry i want to say i would so love to be partners in this but i dont want to dissapoint you i dont know if i can do this at all.you are so sweet.i just dont know what is going to come of this for me.it all just feels so bad

[FourRedheads]

I don't have any advice, granite. Just this.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by granite1

sky i'm sorry i want to say i would so love to be partners in this but i dont want to dissapoint you i dont know if i can do this at all.you are so sweet.i just dont know what is going to come of this for me.it all just feels so bad

Granite - I have no expectations. Being partners only means that we'll hug each other in support. We'll smile and laugh and sometimes cry and it will all be o.k. There's nothing you have to do. Nothing. Just be. Taking deep long slow breaths is one way 'to be'. Hang in there. It's going to be ok.

[unaluna]

Hi granite! I think it is more a reflection of what T saw in your writing last week, she sees better where you are coming from, how your mind works. And she may see mindfulness as something you are already doing naturally - that is what the story about when you went up the stairs indicated to me, and how you felt in the room, your heightened state of awareness in the room.

From what you have said of your background, it would be normal for you to think of any change as loss, even getting a LITTLE better would mean losing T, but it doesn't. I have ALWAYS panicked about that myself, I think there is a thread somewhere about it. I am FINALLY over it, but it took T a while to convince me. One, we have a LOOOONNNGG way to go. Two, like for teeth braces, there will be a long retainer band period after the braces, to make sure you stay straight! We are all in this together.

((((((granite))))))

It sounds like T is just teaching you a tool to help you, not trying to get rid of you. My T has taught me lots and lots and LOTS of ways to get grounded and to be mindful...it's been a huge part of my therapy, because until T and I could find what worked to get me grounded when I was triggered, we couldn't do the hard work I needed to do.

Breathe, sweet granite. It will be okay

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by granite1

.i just dont know what is going to come of this for me.it all just feels so bad

I'm sad that you're feeling so bad, Granite.

[eskielover]

First off, learning something completely NEW that you have never done before is scary....& the older we get the more scary it feels....you are not alone in your feelings.

I was completely unaware of what DBT was all about & what mindfulness was all about either.....but I found out that really, mindfulness is really just taking our emotional thoughts & our rational thoughts about something & putting them together to come up with our best solution with how to deal with a situation that is bothering us. For me, it was sort of like flow charting a computer program.

There are parts of the mindfulness that I'm just NOT good at which is the breathing & feeling everything...but the good thing about DBT is that there are many things we can do to achieve the same results & if one doesn't work for you, something else will.

Being aware of our thoughts & what they are is important....but we don't always know where they come from & that's ok....we just have to acknowledge that the thoughts we have are what they are & we learn how to deal with the actions that come from them them through the mindfulness of putting together rational thought about them with our emotional thought & thus determine what action might be more appropriate for the situation.

To think I had NO IDEA what this all meant before I started DBT in January.

Your thinking that your T is just trying to get rid of you with the DBT is your emotinal mind speaking.....a rational mind would be thinking....ah, DBT provides skills to be able to function in life better & my T really wants to help me get through this rough part of my life.....T is really thinking only about the fact that they found a tool that works for everyone that learns it & the skills are skills that we are ones that many people are taught while growing up....but many of us with Mental Illness haven't learned those skills....T is wanting you to grow & get better, not get rid of you.

Emotional mind says "I can't do it", rational mind says, "I can learn".

The thing is that our minds have formed neuropathways of thinking all our life & it's those neuropathways that DBT aims to change with learning & practice. For most DBT groups, they always give it 2 times thought each topic with mindfulness between each of them.....this is what gives us the practice, practice, practice & only with practice can we change those neuropathway thoughts & actions that keep messing us up.....part of DBT is providing the skills & the insight into other ways of looking at those things that are causing our life problems so that we can change them through the learning what they are & the practice of looking at things in a different way.

I absolutely LOVE my DBT group. I was crushed when I couldn't afford even the reduced price that they were charging......I was shocked when my psychologist & the leader of the DBT group got together with the director of the center & they approved my going to the group without charge.......DBT has definitely opened my eyes to things that I was oblivious to in my life. I didn't think that any therapy would really work let alone DBT.......I can honestly say that it's the best therapy that I have come across & realized how many skills I was lacking....but also learned how many skills I actually had been applying throughout my life & didn't even know it.

Think you will really love it once you really get involved with learning it & putting it into practice.....but it takes quite awhile to really understand what they are saying to start with....it really was like a foreign language & went right over my head for quite awhile to start with. Think that's why I love the group setting with it because I learn from other's experiences also.....& sometimes we all just offer our thoughts about something & the leader helps us put it into DBT terms so that we understand better.

Hope it works as well for you as it has for me.....but have patience with it & don't expect to just learn what they are saying & know how it applies.....helps when your T can point out how it applies & sometimes with us, it's a matter of how could you have handled that in DBT terms of mindfulness......it's at least 2 year project of learning one year for the first time through & the second year for the second time through in order to really understand it & practice it to the point that the old neuropathways of action are actually being changed....no overnight magic acts that's for sure.

Best wishes for this becomming a wonderful experience for you.

[ECHOES]

((granite)) this is something to learn and not something you have to already know.
It's something new and unknown, 2 things that can trigger fear easily.

Do you think your T is setting you up for failure (and subsequent getting rid of you)?

You can't fail. You won't have to learn it before you go and you won't have to learn it all at once. All you need is your willingess to learn. You'll be learning at the pace that fits you. It's something that is interesting and that takes practice. And as you practice you begin to reap the benefits.

You are scared, but you can do this and being scared .

[BlessedRhiannon]

Granite, I understand how very scary new things can be...how frightening not knowing what to expect can be. Perhaps you could extend just a tiny bit of trust to your T, that she's doing this to help you, not get rid of you. That letting her teach you mindfulness will allow her to better help you, because it will give you both a common frame of communication.

Mindfulness is not really something you can fail at, unless you don't even try. It takes practice, yes, but learning to do anything new takes practice. It's okay to be scared, you can even be mindful of that scared part while doing the exercises!

As I posted in Skysblue's thread, I have found that mindfulness exercises are about the only way I can get grounded when I'm seriously disconnected. It doesn't have to be anything complex or deep or earth-shattering. It's just focusing on a single moment and noticing everything about that moment without judging it. I usually just focus on my breathing and then when I'm totally focused on that, I let myself expand my senses outward...what do I hear, what do I see (unless I've closed my eyes), what do I feel physically (a/c blowing on me, sun on my skin, etc)...if I feel able, then I go deeper to what my body and emotions are doing...but only if I feel able...sometimes it's enough to just notice the world around me.

[googley]

(((((((((((((Granite))))))))))))))



Talk to your T about your worries. Also know that mindfulness is meant to be learned over time. Very little steps at a time. Not all at once. You don't need to worry about getting it all or doing it all. You can start with things like taking one deep breath. And that is a success. Then you may progress to two or three deep breathes. You can take it as slowly as you want if you decide to go forward with it. Your T isn't trying to get rid of you, even if it feels like it.

[granite1]

this is crazy!!i cant sleep.i looked up mindfulness and didn't find anything much i understood about it.it does involve DBT and that is solely for BPD.something i was diagnosed with at around 18.it was way before DBT and people just hated me and so on.i spent most of my adult life ignoring those days and trying to change my reactions and tone things down so people wouldn't hate me so much.when i first saw this T she said she didn't think BPD may be the case at all but she wasn't sure.i liked this no labels etc.i felt if she didn't think BPD that there was a chance she may like me and care about me and not just think i was a hopeless job or something like this and now i read about this and all and know she does believe i have BPD i history shows that people hate that even T's.i just feel like if she is going to treat me on this level it is the beginning of the end.you see if i didn't talk to her she couldn't hate me.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by granite1

this is crazy!!i cant sleep.i looked up mindfulness and didn't find anything much i understood about it.it does involve DBT and that is solely for BPD.something i was diagnosed with at around 18.it was way before DBT and people just hated me and so on.i spent most of my adult life ignoring those days and trying to change my reactions and tone things down so people wouldn't hate me so much.when i first saw this T she said she didn't think BPD may be the case at all but she wasn't sure.i liked this no labels etc.i felt if she didn't think BPD that there was a chance she may like me and care about me and not just think i was a hopeless job or something like this and now i read about this and all and know she does believe i have BPD i history shows that people hate that even T's.i just feel like if she is going to treat me on this level it is the beginning of the end.you see if i didn't talk to her she couldn't hate me.

I so understand not wanting to talk to T because if we don't talk they can't really know how 'bad' we are. That is a real and honest fear. I have the same fear - an irrational belief that T will hate me and get rid of me once she knows me. Even when she keeps telling me that that won't happen, the fear overwhelms the rational brain.

But, Granite, like you, I am finding that taking baby steps in trust is paying off. Every time I say one more thing and let T see another part of me and she STILL doesn't get rid of me, is helping me trust that maybe really she won't.

It's scary, I know. It's really really scary. Putting your trust out there, even a little bit can seem impossible. But, the fact is, you already have some trust. You wouldn't keep returning to your T if you had no trust at all. Same with me. There's a huge part of me that believes her and that's why I continue to go back. And the same with you. There is that place deep inside that 'knows' you can trust.

It may not be that helpful to do independent research on mindfulness. You will come across too many words and too many explanations. Maybe just wait and see what your T brings up.

I wasn't able to do the first exercise that she tried with me. All it involved was to pay attention to what physical sensations my hand was feeling. That's all. I told T, 'I can't do this.' And, you might say I failed but in reality I did not fail because I did listen to her and I did try. And I'll try some more. And as everyone has pointed out here, there are no failures with mindfulness. It just requires a bit of an open mind and some practice.

It is not the beginning of the end. It's the beginning of the beginning.

[ECHOES]

Can you see that you are scaring yourself with your thoughts again? She wants to help you What if, for 15 minutes, you could imagine that learning mindfulness is the best idea you've ever heard. The best. Ever. Just that. No other thoughts allowed about it - just that this is going to be great!!

(This is a concept I learned at a business workshop when we were learning how to be open to other's ideas. By doing this, we often found positive aspects of the other's idea; it opens up the mind to possibilities.)

you see if i didn't talk to her she couldn't hate me.

I think I remember you worrying before about her 'hating' you for not talking?

I hope these are helpful to you:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan...lness-20110109

http://stephanieriseley.com/mindfulness-therapy

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...nxiety-therapy

Originally Posted by granite1

now i read about this and all and know she does believe i have BPD i history shows that people hate that even T's.i just feel like if she is going to treat me on this level it is the beginning of the end.you see if i didn't talk to her she couldn't hate me.

(((((((granite))))))))

I don't have BPD and I was practicing mindfulness before I even started therapy. In fact, it was that practice that LED me to therapy.

And T has worked with me on mindfulness for years, to help me be grounded and here.

I am in a meditation group with many, many people, and I don't think anyone in there has a psych diagnosis at all.

Mindfulness is not about what diagnosis we have/don't have. It's really about practicing being in the present moment.

I don't think BPD carries the stigma that it used to at all...no matter what our diagnosis, we're still us. You're still you, diagnosis or not, mindfulness or not. Sometimes it helps me to remember that.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Originally Posted by granite

i looked up mindfulness and didn't find anything much i understood about it.it does involve DBT and that is solely for BPD.

Mindfulness is a part of DBT, yes, but they are not the same thing. Mindfulness can be be used for so many other things, seperate from DBT. It can be used to help you be more aware of your body, of your environment, to help deal with anxiety, with dissociation, and lots of other things. I don't have BPD, but have been working on mindfulness for a year or so, to help me deal with anxiety and help me stay grounded.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by skysblue

I so understand not wanting to talk to T because if we don't talk they can't really know how 'bad' we are. That is a real and honest fear. I have the same fear - an irrational belief that T will hate me and get rid of me once she knows me. Even when she keeps telling me that that won't happen, the fear overwhelms the rational brain.

But, Granite, like you, I am finding that taking baby steps in trust is paying off. Every time I say one more thing and let T see another part of me and she STILL doesn't get rid of me, is helping me trust that maybe really she won't.

It's scary, I know. It's really really scary. Putting your trust out there, even a little bit can seem impossible. But, the fact is, you already have some trust. You wouldn't keep returning to your T if you had no trust at all. Same with me. There's a huge part of me that believes her and that's why I continue to go back. And the same with you. There is that place deep inside that 'knows' you can trust.

It may not be that helpful to do independent research on mindfulness. You will come across too many words and too many explanations. Maybe just wait and see what your T brings up.

I wasn't able to do the first exercise that she tried with me. All it involved was to pay attention to what physical sensations my hand was feeling. That's all. I told T, 'I can't do this.' And, you might say I failed but in reality I did not fail because I did listen to her and I did try. And I'll try some more. And as everyone has pointed out here, there are no failures with mindfulness. It just requires a bit of an open mind and some practice.

It is not the beginning of the end. It's the beginning of the beginning.

maybe that is it i do tend to be a bit untrusting.i think echos right i am scaring myself with my thoughts again.my T still hasnt done anything to cause me not to trust her i need to try to keep remembering this.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Can you see that you are scaring yourself with your thoughts again? She wants to help you What if, for 15 minutes, you could imagine that learning mindfulness is the best idea you've ever heard. The best. Ever. Just that. No other thoughts allowed about it - just that this is going to be great!!

(This is a concept I learned at a business workshop when we were learning how to be open to other's ideas. By doing this, we often found positive aspects of the other's idea; it opens up the mind to possibilities.)

I think I remember you worrying before about her 'hating' you for not talking?

I hope these are helpful to you:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan...lness-20110109

http://stephanieriseley.com/mindfulness-therapy

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...nxiety-therapy

i just wish i had perfect words to use so i can talk and she doesnt hate me..i do think i am scaring myself with my thoughts and by looking things up.i need to stop i had a really bad day yesterday.it all kind of spun out of controle starting with work.i am going to try today to just relax and not judge.thanks for the links i will look at them after i am done responding
thanks echos you know i take to heart what you always have to say and it is usually accurate.and i really do believe you are right about me scaring myself.at least i really hope you are.my T is smart and knows what she is doing i have to believe that

[granite1]

Originally Posted by treehouse

(((((((granite))))))))

I don't have BPD and I was practicing mindfulness before I even started therapy. In fact, it was that practice that LED me to therapy.

And T has worked with me on mindfulness for years, to help me be grounded and here.

I am in a meditation group with many, many people, and I don't think anyone in there has a psych diagnosis at all.

Mindfulness is not about what diagnosis we have/don't have. It's really about practicing being in the present moment.

I don't think BPD carries the stigma that it used to at all...no matter what our diagnosis, we're still us. You're still you, diagnosis or not, mindfulness or not. Sometimes it helps me to remember that.

i don't think i worry about the stigma of BPD as i do failing after i have tried for so many years to overcome this.
i would be nice if it did help me stay grounded and help me be able to talk to my T without freaking out.it just seems like that could never happen

[granite1]

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

Mindfulness is a part of DBT, yes, but they are not the same thing. Mindfulness can be be used for so many other things, separate from DBT. It can be used to help you be more aware of your body, of your environment, to help deal with anxiety, with dissociation, and lots of other things. I don't have BPD, but have been working on mindfulness for a year or so, to help me deal with anxiety and help me stay grounded.

i have a friend who practices Buddhism.he was a staff person who worked at a group home i lived in. he wrote me a letter once about his studies and how it related to me and my issues.i have reread it lately and it does seem so different from what i am reading about but in a way the same.parts of me would so love to share it with all of you because this is a man who has studied at length with monks and budhest in monasteries.what he says is amazing and so insightful to me but is also very personal so i am trying to find a way to do both share it and protect.

[childofyen]

Originally Posted by granite1

this is crazy!!i cant sleep.i looked up mindfulness and didn't find anything much i understood about it.it does involve DBT and that is solely for BPD.something i was diagnosed with at around 18.it was way before DBT and people just hated me and so on.i spent most of my adult life ignoring those days and trying to change my reactions and tone things down so people wouldn't hate me so much.when i first saw this T she said she didn't think BPD may be the case at all but she wasn't sure.i liked this no labels etc.i felt if she didn't think BPD that there was a chance she may like me and care about me and not just think i was a hopeless job or something like this and now i read about this and all and know she does believe i have BPD i history shows that people hate that even T's.i just feel like if she is going to treat me on this level it is the beginning of the end.you see if i didn't talk to her she couldn't hate me.

I can relate to so much of what you said here. I was diagnosed BPD when I was 17. Going back to therapy, even 13 years later, was challenging because I was afraid of the stigma of BPD, afraid I would be dropped by my new T like I was by my old Ts.

But my old Ts that dropped me never showed me the compassion that your T shows you now. The Ts that dropped me didn't try to phase me out by trying new treatments or approaches... they dropped me by refusing to see me, or referring me out. They lost patience with me and told me so. That doesn't sound like what your T is trying to do, right?

It sounds like your T can see the hard work you're putting into therapy. She can see your struggles AND your strengths. She's trying to help you find a new tool that will help you continue to be strong but without so much pain.

Way back when, I did have one T that didn't drop me. She taught me mindfulness. She taught me awareness and acceptance. She told me I would be okay, and that I was okay. And I believed her because I could feel that she meant it. The lessons she taught me took years to grasp, through lots of practice. But it's changed my life for the better. And the best part is that practicing brings relief. Every moment that I practice mindfulness now is a moment that I don't suffer. And that is HUGE in my world, you know?

We never talked about it, but I know now that that T loved me. The books she lent me were her own, and she shared them with me because she knew that practicing mindfulness worked in her life. That's an amazing gift to share with someone. And I think it's likely that your T is giving you a gift, too. I read the letter you posted to your T... and if I were her, I would want to give you whatever I could to help you.

Practicing mindfulness has taught me to:

Honor the people/places/things in my life, including myself.
Be present for the small things because those are the ones that fill the holes in my heart.
See myself more clearly.
Love others more deeply.
Laugh from my gut.
Cry from my soul.
Share from my heart.
And continue walking, even when it seems I'm full of fear.

Those aren't things you try to teach someone who is unlovable, because the unlovable can't learn those things. Those are things you teach the most precious of people. I think your T knows that you deserve to find peace and believes that you will. How awesome is that?!

The first step on any journey is finding the willingness to make the first move. It took me years to understand what my old T taught me because I was a snotty 17 year old punk. I simply wasn't willing. But you're not the kid I was then! It won't take you so long. I promise.

I was petrified that my current T would say I was BPD. Every time I tell her something horrible that I've done, I expect her to tell me that I am, and that she can't continue working with me. She hasn't yet, and I've told her some pretty gnarly stuff. I feel that fear, too. You're not alone. Our fear is okay. It is a part of us. So, we feel it. We wonder about it. We become curious. And we sit with it and breathe until it passes naturally. It's far less painful than shoving it down or denying it or hiding it. It takes practice, but the practice is what brings peace.

So. Take a deep breath, slowly. Slowly let it out. Imagine your T handing you the most amazing and precious gift. Picture yourself accepting the gift, a broad smile on your face, your heart full of gratitude and wonder. And take another breath and relax. You've taken the first step! Now she will help you unwrap it.

Granite, I thought about you while I was running this morning.

I was running, and I realized that T is out of town, in a place that will be affected by the hurricane. I felt so scared...would he be okay? Would he be able to come home on Sunday? Has he been evacuated? Maybe he cancelled his trip and he's still here and okay? And on and on and on.

And I realized that I was totally letting fear and worry take over my brain. Of course there is NO WAY for me to know in this moment what will happen in the future. And I decided to just focus on my feet hitting the pavement, the sounds around me, and I counted my breaths. I knew I had to get back in THIS moment, which is really the only one I have, and stop projecting ahead. And when the fear crept back, I was able to use mindfulness to get back in the moment again (and again and again! lol).

And I just wanted to tell you about it, because to me, this is one of the wonderful things that mindfulness can give us. It can be a tool we use to bring ourselves back to NOW, this moment, and away from all of the fear and worry and negative projections that can steal our peace from us. It didn't make my fear about T go away (it's still creeping back in) but it gives me a way to not get lost in it and to focus on what's actually right in front of me.

Just wanted to share that with you