[zooropa]

I have 3 sessions left. Do you think...is it ok if I just don't go back? In some ways I want that closure, but on the other hand everytime I interact with dbtT it just hurts me more.

I feel a lot of pressure to finish up those 3 sessions, that it's what I "should" do, and I'm just trying to see if I can find a way to be more gentle with myself, to save myself some pain, without feeling like a quitter.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I have 3 sessions left. Do you think...is it ok if I just don't go back? In some ways I want that closure, but on the other hand everytime I interact with dbtT it just hurts me more. I feel a lot of pressure to finish up those 3 sessions, that it's what I "should" do, and I'm just trying to see if I can find a way to be more gentle with myself, to save myself some pain, without feeling like a quitter.

If everybody who said "no more, thank you" was called a quitter, no bad or painful thing would ever be stopped. You have the absolute right, as a free and self-governing individual, to end whatever you're doing with anyone: work, study, social life, or therapy. In fact, you may very well have the obligation to say "stop" if anything is causing you pain or is entirely against your values, as decided by you and by no one else. If there is no way you can perceive that your last three sessions will be of value to you, there is no reason at all not to stop now. It's YOUR perceptions that matter.

If you want to go the whole hog and be fair to T, you might want to consider emailing him/her, telling him/her your own feelings, and giving him/her an opportunity to state their own views. Of course, you may very well have done this already. In which case, the issue is moot. You don't have to ask anyone's permission to terminate therapy. If you feel it's right, after seriously thinking about the matter, then go for it. You won't be doing anything wrong in any sense. Take care!

[ECHOES]

Yes. If it is okay with you, then it is okay.

I think tapering off is a good idea when therapy is coming to a natural ending. I don't know about when it is ending like your is though.

My own thoughts are that I would not want to be thought of as a quitter, so I would go back to say that I've decided that this is the last session. I also like the 'control' of doing this, making it my decision. And this may just reflect my own history of a T disappearing without warning or notice.

I am curious though. A short time ago you wanted more than the 3 remaining sessions. Do you think your thoughts now of not going back mean that your acceptance is sinking in and taking root, enabling you to think about moving forward?

[roads]

Review your last session. Did it have closure? Or was it open-ended? Write down anything that you can think of that would feel unfinished if you did not go back, ever.

Now consider the list. If there's anything on it, then you need to decide whether you could live with it, forever unresolved.

The thing is, I'd really like to tell you to not go back. To be gentle, make it easy on yourself.

But the thing is that, in my life, my only regrets are for the things I didn't do. I can't say I regret doing anything, even when they didn't turn out the best of all possible ways. At least I did it, at least I knew. Otherwise, I would have regretted never finding out.

That's me. I guess you just have to decide how much "never knowing" you can live with.

s & best thoughts .
Roadrunner

Perhaps you could leave open the possibility to meet for a session in several months, once you've processed what happened w/ new T? This is what I ended up doing (it was about 9 months after ending) and it was really, really helpful for me. I was able to (calmly) verbalize my feelings and I was in a place whereby I didn't need her to agree with my point of view. It simply was empowering to confront her in an "adult" manner. It was hard and I was anxious going in, but I left feeling very good about myself.

Good luck w/ whatever you choose to do - there is no "right" answer, but I do think that some sort of closure would be good, even if it's not immediately, maybe even a letter?

[stopdog]

If you do not feel it is going to help you in some way to do the last three appointments - then I would see no reason to do them. I do not think a client need worry about being fair to a t - they get paid and beyond that a client does not owe them anything.

[googley]

If you don't want to go to these sessions then don't go. There is no rule that you have to go. Do what makes you feel best.

[WePow]

I think perhaps you should go to the next one and just say that you will not be back.
Give YOURSELF the closure YOU deserve. Tell her exactly what you want her to remember. Don't worry about trying to take care of her.

Bottom line is that I agree that you have that obligation FIRST to do what is in YOUR best interest. Whatever that looks like to you, that is what you should do.

[zooropa]

I think the reason I don't want to go is that I know it will hurt. I will leave there torn up and raw and with nobody to help me feel better. This has happened, increasingly, for the past month and I can see myself starting to get stronger just about when it's time to see her again, and it starts all over.

I would love to have a tapering off, to have an end date and know what it is and work through my feelings about it. But if I can't have that, and it appears I cannot, then I think maybe I need to just stop now.

It's so hard to know. I am in so much pain. It feels like it doesn't get any better, other than the really brief moments when it leaves me. It just always comes back, it doesn't go away, it doesn't get easier.

I just keep telling myself that this will change, that someday it WILL be easier, and I have to hang on, to live to see that day.

[zooropa]

I want to add that in writing the post above this, as soon as I hit "post", I felt a sense of space in my chest. I felt my stomach unclench, just a little. I took a big, deep breath. Something about this feels good to me, physically, and so probably emotionally as well.

I am trying to let go of doing "the right thing" here. I mean, in a lot of ways, my T is not worried about "doing the right thing," so why should I? She is putting her own needs before mine, which is just plain human nature. So it should be ok for me to put MY needs before hers, or before what SHE says would be better for me.

I guess powerlessness is part of it, too. I won't go in there and sit and have my fate announced to me. If she isn't willing to taper off, to space out those last sessions, at all, I will just feel all the more abandoned and rejected. The only way to make her stop rejecting me is to stop giving her the opportunity to do so. Ditto with abandonment. I have to close myself off from T. I just have to. Somehow.

I need to be done now if I'm going to survive this.

Originally Posted by zooropa

I need to be done now if I'm going to survive this.

I think this sentence says it all ^

You're right...you are focusing on self-care, and every time you've seen her for a long time, you've felt worse. It feels like you see her, it's super painful, you work through that pain and put yourself back together and then it's time to see her again and the cycle restarts. You. do. not. have. to. put. yourself. through. that. any. more.

Take care of YOU, zoo. Listen to what your inner wisdom is telling you.

Breathe and then breathe some more. You know that little space that just opened up? There's more.

Hang in there, sweet friend.

[zooropa]

oh, but a part of me cries and says: give T one more chance to fix it, give her a chance to help us feel better, let T make it all better like she has done before.

And I have compassion for that part, even while I know the truth: T cannot fix this. T will not fix this. T won't be fixing things for me any more. And someday, I will be ok with that.

and tree, yes, I have seen that cycle each week for the past month. And each week it gets more damaging, gets harder to bounce back from. I don't know where I will be if I put myself through it again. And...if I don't go back, I might wonder for the rest of my life if I did the right thing. I might never feel closure. But even if I do back, the same could hold true.

I don't know, it is very confusing. I am going to talk to new-T tomorrow and I hope she can help me sort this out.

Originally Posted by zooropa

.if I don't go back, I might wonder for the rest of my life if I did the right thing. I might never feel closure.

When my son was 5, he started kindergarten at the public school down the road. Something about it didn't feel right...I had always considered homeschooling, but wasn't sure if it was going to be right for us, so I sent him to school. I felt like "well, that's it, I chose school, I'm stuck now".

Three weeks later (after much agony) I started to believe that I could bring him home to homeschool...and that I could send him back to the public school if it turned out it wasn't for us. I realized that I will always have choices, and that nothing had to be set in stone. I REALLY felt until that moment that whatever I decided had to be THE decision...no going back. It was freeing to realize that it didn't have to work that way...but also a little stressful, because there wasn't the finality of "there! I decided! I'm done!"

He did end up homeschooling through 8th grade and started public high school this year. Because we still had that choice, even 8 years later. And right now, THIS is what feels right.

You don't have to decide right now whether or not you'll ever see T again. You can decide to go for your last three sessions. Or you can decide not to. And later, if you DO have the feeling that you need a different kind of closure, you can find a way to get that...with a session, or a letter, or a phone call, or something else that has yet to be revealed.

You can decide to do what is right for you right now, in this moment. When my son was 5, what was right right then was bringing him home. It might have changed in first grade, or third, or ninth, or never, and that's okay. If it's right for you right now to not see T, it's okay. You don't have to try to guess what the future will feel like, or try to make a "final" decision right now. You can decide to do whatever feels safest in this moment.

This is so, so, so hard. Whenever you can, see if you can ground yourself in the thinnest sliver of now you can find, even if it's just for a few seconds. Sometimes that helps me get through the hardest times.

Thinking of you, zoo

[zooropa]

this isn't the first time that I've posted something here only to come back and say I was wrong. Because right after I posted that there is nothing dbtT can do to fix this, I got this reply from a text I sent a couple hours earlier. My text first, then her's.

ME: Please, can we end this in a way that isn't devastating to me? I desperately want this to be over, & I want it to end on a positive note. I have earned the right to get a say in that, after all my work of the past 3 yrs.

HER: If u can think of a way to end this w/o devastating u, let me know. I will discuss ideas w u on Wed.

and I just...that is all I needed to hear. That's all I wanted. I know it has to be over, and I want it to be over. I just want and need it to end in a way that doesn't utterly unbalance me. I just really really needed to know that I have a chance, that I can figure out what I need and ask for it.

I'm thinking maybe going to every other week until Jan, then maybe go once in Jan and once in Feb and that's it. Or just end in Jan. Something like that. I'd like to set up some really clear guidelines on future contact, as well as on between session contact during this transition. She didn't tell me not to call or text her anymore, but i felt like it was implied so I tried to just let her be. But today...wow. Today was hard. Today I felt like I could not wait until Wed, could not help but reach out to her.

I just...when I read her reply (which I was terrified to look at) I smiled and I felt my whole body relax. I felt like in some way I had been given the wheel again, and realized that one of the worst things about this was the way it was presented to me when I walked in last week: I am done, we are through, period, deal with it. (paraphrasing!). So, now...I can at least contribute to the conversation. I really want to be able to focus on the good parts of my time with this T, and I think I just need a slightly more gradual ending for that to happen.

(((((((((zoo)))))))))

We posted at the same time, so I didn't see your last post before I posted mine, or I wouldn't have posted it.

Good for you for asking for what you need from T. That is good, good self-care. You're doing it.

Hugs and hugs to you

[zooropa]

tree, no, thank you SO MUCH for your post. I need those reminders that things aren't so black and white. You really, really good at remembering to look in the gray areas, thank you for sharing that with me.

[roads]

Originally Posted by zooropa

The only way to make her stop rejecting me is to stop giving her the opportunity to do so.
....
I need to be done now if I'm going to survive this.

It sounds like a decision.
I want so much for you to be okay with whatever you decide.
That alone makes it "right" for you.
(((((zooropa)))))

Roadrunner

[rainbow8]

((((((((((zoo))))))))))

I understand your shifts and changing your mind. I really do. I've been there with a couple of Ts, not exactly in the circumstances, but I know how much you want to end in a way that will not make it seem like your entire therapy is invalidated. I think your T wants that too. It's okay to want that. Or, if you change your mind after your session Wednesday, that's okay too.

I really hope that you will be able to end in a way that works for you and leaves you with hope and knowledge that you are a good person, and didn't do anything wrong. Your T did say 3 more sessions, though. I kind of wish she'd stick to that because it would mean you can trust what she said. You can still say all you need to in that time--maybe space them out. But if she's changed her mind and you both agree--that's fine too. The important thing is that you and she end on good terms and go over the positives from your therapy--not the negatives. I'm sure there are many.

[unaluna]

That's what I was trying to say yesterday, only I could not articulate it. Who is breaking up with whom? She seemed to be taking it as a breakup, not as you are simply calling another plumber (you don't expect the first plumber to get all dramatic about it, as she kind of was). If you "dump" her, she is not in control, YOU are saying she stopped helping you, this was more than her ego could handle. It sounds like she has regained some perspective. I hope she has! If she punishes her clients for leaving her, I don't care WHAT the circumstances are, that is kinda not cool? The breakup should feel mutual, she should not be throwing your ego under the bus for her own ego's sake. I don't get why SHE has no idea how to stop without devastating you - are you her first client? Is one of you made of sugar?! I mean, I too feel your relief that she is now being more open, but I think the student has surpassed the teacher, and maybe you don't realize that you have? And she might be embarrassed about being surpassed, and not buying your naivete about it. I get that a lot - too smart for my own good and I unknowingly tick people off (not to mention the times I do it on purpose! ). It might be nice to have her validation for the past 3 years, but live UP to YOUR ideals, not down to hers. You've bloody earned them.

[zooropa]

hankster, your post made me smile, thank you.

I am aware that I'm kind of all over the place with this, and I imagine that probably looks really scattered or contradictory to anyone reading my posts, but processing my feelings about various courses of action really helps me sort out what is coming from reasonable mind, from emotion mind, or from both (wise mind).

I do know that DBT is over for me, at least for now, at least with this therapist. What I want, and what I need, now is first to process my feelings about what has gone on between us for the past month. I need to process that stuff with her, and I don't know if I will be able to. If she's as emotionally reactive as she was last week, no way. But maybe she has centered herself, I don't know.

Beyond that, I want to spend some time looking back at the progress I've made, talk about some of the high points of our time together, and discuss my future plans as well as any guidelines for continued contact with her. I want to thank her whole-heartedly for the help she has given me, the times she has been there, for listening to and believing and validating my story. I want to tell her that I won't ever forget her, and that I hope she won't ever forget me. I want to ask her what she learned from working with me, and I want to acknowledge that I have been impossibly difficult at times and to thank her for hanging in with me as long as she did.

I just don't think all that can be accomplished in 2 or 3 sessions. I think I want to ask to see her 3 times in Dec, twice in Jan, and one final time in Feb. I normally see her every week, so this tapering off feels much better than just suddenly stopping. I'm going to propose no between-session contact during that time, unless it's for scheduling or whatever. And, maybe the discussion will go faster and easier than I think. In that case, I could be done sooner than Feb. I want to keep my options as open as possible.

Of course I don't know that she will agree to any more than 3 sessions, but at least I will have had a chance to figure out what really needs to be said before I am done.