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  #51  
Old Apr 13, 2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
Not that I can discern. But I am not particularly in a perky spot at the moment, so perhaps that is the problem.
it could be affecting how you're viewing things, yes, clouding some logic or whatever ...... so maybe you could suspend making some definite conclusions about some things for a bit until you find yourself in a better spot or a clearer frame of mind.

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  #52  
Old Apr 15, 2012, 06:14 PM
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I didn't really have a connection to any of my therapists. I went there to get info from them so that I could fix my problems.
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  #53  
Old Apr 15, 2012, 10:50 PM
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Is connection different from attachment? I too seek mere information from the therapist.

Last edited by stopdog; Apr 15, 2012 at 11:25 PM.
  #54  
Old Apr 15, 2012, 10:51 PM
KazzaX KazzaX is offline
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I think the term "connection" is a hugely overdramatised description of something we all have. Everyone here is saying we have a connection with everyone we ever met - so then why do we talk about it for pages after pages after pages? I have no idea lol. It's a bit like talking about the fact that we all have bowel movements and how great they are!

Going from what has been said in this thread, You (stopdog) have had a connection with every therapist you have ever seen! Even if that connection is just the "I give you money and you give me an hour a week" - that is a connection. That is an attachment of some sort. It's not emotional, its functional. But its an attachment. That guy that you may see emptying out your trashcan each week - you see him, he sees you - you have an attachment there. Same goes for me and everyone else.

Its left me a bit bummed actually. Not sure why people go on about it for 10+ pages if its something that EVERYBODY who has ever had a therapist has had, ever. I could not see a 10+ page thread happening about bowel movements, thats for sure.
  #55  
Old Apr 15, 2012, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by KazzaX View Post
I think the term "connection" is a hugely overdramatised description of something we all have. Everyone here is saying we have a connection with everyone we ever met - so then why do we talk about it for pages after pages after pages? I have no idea lol. It's a bit like talking about the fact that we all have bowel movements and how great they are!

Going from what has been said in this thread, You (stopdog) have had a connection with every therapist you have ever seen! Even if that connection is just the "I give you money and you give me an hour a week" - that is a connection. That is an attachment of some sort. It's not emotional, its functional. But its an attachment. That guy that you may see emptying out your trashcan each week - you see him, he sees you - you have an attachment there. Same goes for me and everyone else.

Its left me a bit bummed actually. Not sure why people go on about it for 10+ pages if its something that EVERYBODY who has ever had a therapist has had, ever. I could not see a 10+ page thread happening about bowel movements, thats for sure.
I define connection a bit more narrowly than your description.
  #56  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:45 AM
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I think connection is more bilateral than attachment; kind of space station docking versus leech
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  #57  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:54 AM
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I've been reading Brene Brown's book in which she defines connection as “I define connection as the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued; when they can give and receive without judgment; and when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship.”

I like this definition. I'm definitely not there with T, but I would think this is the goal to get this type of connection.
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  #58  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:57 AM
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So is connection different from the elusive alliance idea With a therapist? I find these ideas confusing. Be attached but not connected? There is supposed to be alliance but the therapist will not explain how to do it or how it helps.
  #59  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 09:20 AM
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I'm not intending to be contrary or in disagreement here, merely stating what my first thoughts were when I saw stopdog's ? about connection being different than attachment.
Connection as it's talked about here in this forum has a lot to do with a rapport, with validation, with experiencing unconditional positive regard, or with a meeting of the minds (intellectual understanding/rapport) and/or a meeting of the heart (emotional understanding/rapport). I don't think everyone experiences the meeting of the heart thingy, or feels that it is necessary to have an emotional experience/emotional intensity to feel a connection, but some do .....
However, I think of connection as a stepping stone toward attachment. I think I have a connection of sorts with many people to whom I don't really have what I consider an emotional attachment. I guess I consider attachment, for me, to be a deeper thing than just connection. I connect well with some moms in my MOPS (Mothers of Preschool Children) group, but that doesn't mean I'm attached to them - I don't have a close friendship with them outside of the group, just a comfortable acquaintance. I consider there to be connection, but not attachment in that. But when I do feel a deeper connection to someone, and that happens not so often, then that is when the door opens for me to become closer to them, more attached.
I think there can be effective communication between client and therapist, a sort of an intellectual connection, just meaning for them to be a source of info/counsel, without having a deeper attachment ....
The very first counselor I saw, a man, for about 4 months, I had a good connection with him, I was comfortable talking to him, I liked him, but I had no real attachment to him. I didn't think of him between sessions or dwell on sessions afterward, and when we mutually decided I had resolved my concerns, we ended ...... and it was easy to move on. I define that as not being attached, but I know there was connection, or he couldn't have been helpful to me.
How helpful or clear any of this is to anyone, I don't know ......
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  #60  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 09:48 AM
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Yeah, they must be different because I just got a lot better at attachment but I have been able to connect for much longer.
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  #61  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannah View Post
I didn't really have a connection to any of my therapists. I went there to get info from them so that I could fix my problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannah View Post
Yeah, they must be different because I just got a lot better at attachment but I have been able to connect for much longer.
So I am confused. Are you saying you had attachment but not connection to a therapist? Did it help with anything?
  #62  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
So is connection different from the elusive alliance idea With a therapist? I find these ideas confusing. Be attached but not connected? There is supposed to be alliance but the therapist will not explain how to do it or how it helps.
It takes connection to form an alliance.

Often we feel attachment first, we are attracted to the other person because of their listening skills, their attention to us in a quieter environment than usual (I have 4 siblings and I'm the youngest; getting attention in that household was not easy!) or our perceptions of their personal attributes, abilities, skills, etc. help us attach.

Think space station? Once attached, a connection is formed; the air lock is secured and doors opened so one can go freely from one side to the other. But just being connected does not mean anything useful will happen, that's the alliance; where the people from the shuttle decide to come aboard the station and run experiments and collaborate with the people already there.

Now, space station to therapy :-) Once attached, a connection is formed; we test out the therapist and judge them to be able to emotionally take care of themselves; they don't seem to get rattled by us and we notice that occasionally they say something that really seems insightful about us and helps us understand ourselves better. We don't know how to "get"/elicit that them-to-us good feeling experience yet but trust/see they can reliably do the them-to-us and want to watch and learn how to do that too; so that we can do the us-to-them (as well as ask for/elicit the them-to-us). Eventually it becomes pretty good, we enjoy the them-to-us when we get it and are working on the reverse. That's connection. Eventually we realize that we're working on these things AND so are they, with us! That's collaboration. Because we have these a-ha moments it makes it easier for the them-to-us learning to take place and we see/understand more of how it all works and can contribute more ourselves to the Project of Us.
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Last edited by Perna; Apr 16, 2012 at 11:15 AM.
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  #63  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:35 AM
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I had cancelled the therapist this week after last week's appointment. But then my parent had a health thing going on that I found somewhat distressing. I wrote a three sentence email to the therapist about it because it seemed like a not horrible plan to try to do and for some reason I wanted to tell someone about it. I did not tell people in my real life because they get all weirdo about it and then I would have to deal with them. The only reason I can come up for the desire is I could tell the therapist and not have to deal with attempts to be comforted as she is completely non-comforting. I hate attempts at being comforted.(I realize friends are trying to help - but is usually just awful to endure so it is better just not to tell them until things are more under control in me).

I did not tell the other therapist I see. I had no real desire to tell the second one, but I did have a desire to tell the first one. I find this odd in myself, because the second one is the one who is calm, explains everything over and over with no sign of impatience, connects things from appointment to appointment, and I do not leave more distressed than when I went in like I do with the first one. The second one seems often to understand what I am saying. But it is the first one I want to make understand. None of it seems to be reducing the amount of horrible I feel. I have no idea if these are connections, alliances or attachments or none of the above. Or possibly I am just bat **** crazy.
  #64  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:47 AM
KazzaX KazzaX is offline
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I thought that connection and attachment were the same thing, just different words. Well there you go. I learnt something new today. That space station thing was a good description - I get it now.
  #65  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:00 AM
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I had neither a connection nor an attachment to my therapists. It was a business relationship. I went there for info. Later I learned to connect to others and then came healthy attachment. Not having these things with my therapists did not impede my progress, though. With my therapists I worked on boundaries, meeting my needs, the first few layers of self worth, inner child, just making sense of everything, etc. and then later I went on to work on many other things. The therapists helped me with my foundation of mental health. (My MSW degree and websites like this helped me to continue on by myself).

Does this make sense - you write that you don't like being comforted by your friends. You also write that you want to tell someone about your current distress so you want to tell your first T who you seem to be less connected to? This makes sense to me. If you told this to the second T she would more likely try to comfort you?
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  #66  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:20 AM
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I would have said I am oddly more connected to the first one. That is one I keep going back to, feel something not good when I quit, and so forth. The second one I don't usually think about at all except when I am there or think who can explain something to me. I don't understand why I keep going to the first one, but I do. I don't know why I continue to choose the one I want to explode from frustration over.
  #67  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:32 AM
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I would have said I am oddly more connected to the first one. That is one I keep going back to, feel something not good when I quit, and so forth. The second one I don't usually think about at all except when I am there or think who can explain something to me. I don't understand why I keep going to the first one, but I do. I don't know why I continue to choose the one I want to explode from frustration over.

I go through life figuring : The people who make me want to explode in frustration...have the most to teach me!

could it be that???
Just a thought......
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  #68  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:40 AM
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But it is the first one I want to make understand.
That sounds, to me, like it could be transference; trying to make someone understand something despite their usually not sounds like what can happen when we're kids. We keep trying to get it "right" even though that opportunity has passed/ain't going to happen.

Reminds me of another post, I think in the communications forum, where someone was asking for explanation of the example their husband had given, where he said he felt like a monkey with his hand stuck in a jar of candy, unable to get his hand out, unable to help himself move on. With the monkey story, I can think of at least two ways the monkey could get the candy; get his hand out, pick up the jar and dump out the candy or, smash the jar.

Emailing that T and wanting her to understand could show attachment, you're "hooked" :-) but connection can only happen when you can see what is going on, when you stop and think, "gee, this looks like transference (or, whatever)" and raise that issue rather than just wanting to get the other to understand, whatever you originally emailed (i.e., you email "I feel like ****" and want to make the other understand what that feels like but, in the middle, realize that wanting to make that particular person understand (not just "people") means something is going on between you and that particular person and, instead of caring about the feeling like ****, you explore WITH the other person, the something going on between you and them. That's connection. When you do that most of the time in therapy, that's a working relationship.
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  #69  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 12:33 PM
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I didd not want understanding about my parent. I just wanted to tell someone who would not care or try to get involved.
I do want the therapist to understand when I anwer questions and she seems clueless about what I am saying. It may be transference, but I would feel that way about anyone I was trying to talk to. The second one is not usually clueless and if she is, she will admit it.
  #70  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 01:15 PM
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I just wanted to tell someone who would not care or try to get involved.
Fine, but this sounds like a holdover from a parent who seemed to care too much or tried/got involved too much and smothered you? So you drop the actual communication and the "I just wanted to tell someone who. . ." and say, gee, I picked this person to tell, because I feel they do not care or try to get involved, why did I do that? and discuss that with that person.

You cannot get to connection, if you want to get to connection, if you block/perceive people as being caring/uncaring and too involved/not involved instead of looking at how you block/perceive in the first place.

I imagine you don't know if you want to get to connection, it does not sound very comfortable/good to you at the moment but look at the, "I just wanted to tell someone who would not care or try to get involved" statement and you see a problem. How can someone else help you understand if they don't care and/or cannot get involved in the educational process? Why can you not just read a book for your education? Because, people aren't like books (hated when my T would point that out, too often).
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  #71  
Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:50 PM
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I do nto think my parents tried to smother me. I do despise being controlled or manipulated. I am not quite certain about the people are not like books thing is. Reading books is how I understand or learn about most things. Therapy books make no sense to me and seem only to be a bunch of smug condescending jerks who talk about their insights or "interventions" and how the good patients love them and the bad ones are resistant. I understand books on quantum physics easier than therapy. Sometimes, therapists are just simply wrong and sometimes they simply need to explain and explain again.

POSSIBLE TRIGGER


I did want to tell someone about my parent and I did not want to have to deal with any reaction from the person I told. Hence the therapist.

I am very frustrated and want to destroy every connection I have with anything. I won't destroy anything, but I have a great fantasy about blowing myself up in a huge fiery ball or being crushed by a wall or something and then walking away from the rubble alone (this is a fantasy so I am not dead) and never have a need for another human interaction ever. In the fantasy, the pets and all other humans are fine.
  #72  
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:30 AM
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I am very frustrated and want to destroy every connection I have with anything. I won't destroy anything, but I have a great fantasy about blowing myself up in a huge fiery ball or being crushed by a wall or something and then walking away from the rubble alone (this is a fantasy so I am not dead) and never have a need for another human interaction ever. In the fantasy, the pets and all other humans are fine.
I really like this fantasy. To be able to just walk away sounds good. I often daydream about taking off (with my dog) to the mountains and getting off the grid so no one can find me. Then the fact that I have a mother who's life depends on me being at her beckoning call crashes my dream.
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  #73  
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:45 AM
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I won't destroy anything, but I have a great fantasy about blowing myself up in a huge fiery ball or being crushed by a wall or something and then walking away from the rubble alone (this is a fantasy so I am not dead) and never have a need for another human interaction ever. In the fantasy, the pets and all other humans are fine.
I find this really interesting and I keep thinking about it. It's not unusual to have fantasies about doing oneself in - and a lot of people actually do it. But in your fantasy you walk away from it - you don't destroy yourself.

It sounds like there's a part of you that you want to destroy, and then you can walk away ALONE - meaning free, the real you. Y'know, that's what therapy is all about - digging up and separating out that part of us that is ..... IDK, wrong, broken ... and becoming whole. The authentic self, as the T's like to say.

Just putting my thoughts out there on the off chance this might help, because I know you've got a ton of determination to figure things out.
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  #74  
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:32 AM
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I just wanted to tell someone who would not care or try to get involved.
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I do despise being controlled or manipulated.
Are these 2 ^ related?
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  #75  
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Are these 2 ^ related?
Maybe, but so what? (I am not being flippant - I really don't know why it would matter if they are related).
I am irked I told the therapist about my parent. I am irked I wanted to tell anybody at all and that I thought of her as being a possibility.
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