[CantExplain]

Hi guys!

I'm still trying to recover from my wretched cold, and I was feeling weak and slow. I didn't have anything much to discuss and I ended up talking about T's appearance.

Once again, I mentioned her cold eyes, her unreadable mouth and her non-performing hair. I went on to say that she was too thin, sexless and still. Her appearance is a long-standing disappointment! T says I don't like her to wear trousers, but that's only part of the story.

This time we added up all the clues and realised that I was basically criticising T for not being W.

My wife is a big woman with big breasts, big hair and a constant smile. And I haven't had any quality time with her for over a week because I have been so sick.

T teased me about all the ways she (T) would have to change in order to satisfy me. I'd been sleepwalking through the session but I perked up at once at this. She noticed, but missed an important point.

Yes, I like her to talk dirty to me, but even more, I enjoy her teasing me. I'm very sensitive to teasing and there aren't many people I trust enough to let my guard down. Teasing is one thing I don't get from my wife.

[stopdog]

Your therapist talks drty to you?

Cold eyes, unreadable mouth, non-performing hair... too thin.. sexless?! You said all this to your therapist?!

[elliemay]

Your therapist is not a substitute for your wife, or what's missing in your life in general. They are there to help you find it.

Dude, I don't know the entire scope of your therapy, but I think a little thoughtful caution might be in order here.

What do you think?

[critterlady]

I can't imagine spending most of a session talking about my therapist's appearance, or caring what he wears.

[WikidPissah]

You told her what???? Does she ever call you out on the hurtful stuff you say to her? It really seems mean and kind of hurtful.

PS: I love it when you mention your W, I can really see the love there.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Your therapist talks drty to you?

Partly I'm being facetious.

But there is sexual tension in the air and she doesn't shrink from talking about body parts.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

Cold eyes, unreadable mouth, non-performing hair... too thin.. sexless?! You said all this to your therapist?!

Yes, but not all at once. She had to ask some probing questions.

Also, remember I'm summarising with the benefit of hindsight. Here I condense the cruellest words of a whole session into a single paragraph.

But I guess your real question is, how can I say these mean things to my therapist at all?

Over the years, T has trained me to say whatever comes into my head without censoring it. And I know that she knows that much of what I say about is really about someone else. We accept the reality of transference and just go where it leads.

Therapy becomes very powerful when you reach that level of trust.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Your therapist is not a substitute for your wife, or what's missing in your life in general. They are there to help you find it.

Absolutely! I know that, but the subconscious plays by its own rules.

In therapy, actions are forbidden and words are permitted. "I shall speak daggers to her but use none," as Hamlet says. [Thinks: This is probably a Freudian metaphor.]

Many circus acts require a net. But above the net, anything goes.

[WePow]

One thing I like about you - you are very honest!

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Absolutely! I know that, but the subconscious plays by its own rules.

In therapy, actions are forbidden and words are permitted. "I shall speak daggers to her but use none," as Hamlet says. [Thinks: This is probably a Freudian metaphor.]

Many circus acts require a net. But above the net, anything goes.

You know what I think? (like you care ) I think you have been trying to woo your therapist and are very very angry at her continued rejection. I think these rejections are hard on anyone, but for men, perhaps represent a much more profound threat to their manhood and, perceived genetic fitness, hence the other posts about that very topic.

Women are supposed to like you, but this one - oh this one - provides a different skill set other than breasts.

I think your daggers subconsciously hit right at your heart. The desire to accept yourself as is, and not in relation to other women, the world, or expectations.

As you find peace within you, the desire to lash out and feelings of tension/frustration will subside. They may seem enjoyable, but are really in opposition with the you that you seek.

You may already know this and continue on anyway. I don't know.

It can't be comfortable and I don't see how it is therapeutic either. But that's just me, and evidently, today, I know everything.

Are we above the net here? I guess that is for the mods to decide...

However, I carry no daggers.

[SeaSalt]

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

Cold eyes, unreadable mouth, non-performing hair... too thin.. sexless?! You said all this to your therapist?!

lol....this made me chuckle.

[granite1]

wow cant dont hold back

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by elliemay

It can't be comfortable and I don't see how it is therapeutic either. But that's just me, and evidently, today, I know everything.

Are we above the net here? I guess that is for the mods to decide...

However, I carry no daggers.

That was a very ... powerful response. I'm guessing I've triggered you.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

That was a very ... powerful response. I'm guessing I've triggered you.

nope. But it's easy to write it off as that I guess.

I still contend that the more you like yourself, the less you will lash out at your therapist.

I think it's about building your confidence in yourself, and I'm just not sure that can be done by tearing others down (even if it's your therapist).

Like I said, deep down, it can't feel good to say those things to another.

[WikidPissah]

I have this 23 yr old niece. (good god, I love that kid with all my heart, and I would do anything for her). She has an awkward knack for always saying something shocking. Here's this great, funny, outgoing kid who lights up the room, and then BAM...everyone is left speechless, mouths gaping open. I think the fact that she is so loveable gets her by, but as she gets older she might want to rethink her strategy.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Absolutely! I know that, but the subconscious plays by its own rules.
In therapy, actions are forbidden and words are permitted. "I shall speak daggers to her but use none," as Hamlet says. [Thinks: This is probably a Freudian metaphor.]
Many circus acts require a net. But above the net, anything goes.

Who ELSE are you going to talk to about this stuff? "Can I talk to your manager?" No! T is IT! Beauty (or not) is in the eye of the beholder. What CE "sees" in his T's physical characteristics is purely subjective. My T is considered cute, but a lot of times I just see my pervy Uncle Bob. Or my dad's hands. etc. With an experienced T, they're like an actor, their body is their instrument. Remember mcl's weird and creepy T even said he was taught to use every part of himself, like Italians use the pig? Anyway, I see nothing wrong or amiss here. You may not want T picking YOU apart like this, and they're not - t is not about T's fantasies and past, it's about the clients. It's not an equal r/s. Sometimes they give more.

P.s. I assumed he was talking about a parent.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by hankster

Who ELSE are you going to talk to about this stuff? "Can I talk to your manager?" No! T is IT! Beauty (or not) is in the eye of the beholder. What CE "sees" in his T's physical characteristics is purely subjective. My T is considered cute, but a lot of times I just see my pervy Uncle Bob. Or my dad's hands. etc. With an experienced T, they're like an actor, their body is their instrument. Remember mcl's weird and creepy T even said he was taught to use every part of himself, like Italians use the pig? Anyway, I see nothing wrong or amiss here. You may not want T picking YOU apart like this, and they're not - t is not about T's fantasies and past, it's about the clients. It's not an equal r/s. Sometimes they give more.

P.s. I assumed he was talking about a parent.

Dude, hankster, in my mind, this is sooooo not about physical attributes at all.....

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Over the years, T has trained me to say whatever comes into my head without censoring it. And I know that she knows that much of what I say about is really about someone else. We accept the reality of transference and just go where it leads.

Therapy becomes very powerful when you reach that level of trust.

This really strikes a chord with me. For about the first 30 years of my life, I "filtered" every thought carefully before I spoke. I was so afraid of saying the wrong thing, somehow, or someone might get mad, etc. Needless to say this made me a very poor conversationalist, because by the time I had censored my thoughts into appropriate words, the conversation had moved on.....

It was very difficult for me to learn, as CE mentions, how to say whatever comes into my head without censoring. Once I was able to do that, I made a huge leap forward in my personal growth ------- I started to become who I really am.

So I agree with what CE says above.

[Bmee2]

CantExplain, you are in fact honest. A wonderful characteristic!

[nicoleflynn]

Saying that negative stuff to ANYone isn't something I would do. I cannot think of anyone (including a therapist) who would want to hear that.

[nicoleflynn]

Honesty and authenticity are necessary in therapy; what does she say about those negative things you say about her?!

As women, we have negatives thrown at us every day by the media pointing out we are too fat, old, use the wrong hair color, toothpaste; the list is endless.

It is important to learn empathy and how what we say affects others. Perhaps you might think about how you would feel if criticized.

As someone working to stop verbal abuse, I am vigilant about the power of words; they can tear us down or build us up.

"Are you an ENcourager or a DIScourager?' is a quote I like

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

Saying that negative stuff to ANYone isn't something I would do. I cannot think of anyone (including a therapist) who would want to hear that.

On the contrary - my therapist loves it when I release my inhibitions and blurt out shameful or embarrassing things. When I've been snarly or sarcastic with her in the past and then later I apologize she tells me that I have nothing to apologize for. As I mentioned in another post, she tells me that the more parts of myself that I let be seen, the better. She says that from a therapist's point of view, this is striking gold.

It's not like we want to be deliberately mean or unpleasant or critical but sometimes negative emotions do come up. In r/l we're supposed to 'behave' ourselves and therefore we may not get the chance to process why we're having the negative unpleasant feelings.

In therapy we can let them be felt and with our therapist's help we can process them and work through them and learn more about ourselves.

I would never ever want to hurt my T's feelings. But there are occasions where I am just obstinate or stubborn or snarly or antagonistic and being able to show that is healing. And she never takes offense and she helps me understand myself better and why those negative feelings erupt.

The thing is - therapists are trained not to take things personally. They are trained professionals helping us to know ourselves better. And if we cannot show them all parts of ourselves, how can they help us?

I think there's a difference between sharing negative and uncomfortable emotions with your therapist, and doling out personal comments/insults.. isn't there? I think you can show a therapist all 'parts' of oneself without dissing her hairstyle, etc.. Therapists may be trained not to take things personally, but I don't see any reason or justification to be deliberately offensive - they are human beings...

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Hi guys!
Once again, I mentioned her cold eyes, her unreadable mouth and her non-performing hair. I went on to say that she was too thin, sexless and still. Her appearance is a long-standing disappointment! . . .

This time we added up all the clues and realised that I was basically criticising T for not being W.

Seems to me that the clues add up to your criticizing T for not being sexually appealing and/or available to you. As if you feel entitled to have all women be so, which is the hallmark of the objectification of women.

Interesting question is why do you feel the need to objectify women at all, especially one that you pay for her professional (no pun intended) services? Why do you feel entitled to have women be appealing and sexy to you? It's not anyone's job, including your wife and certainly not your T.

But it is a big clue to an issue, so I can imagine why your T would play along. You both play well together and that is an important part of therapy.