T said "what does normal mean anyway?"

I had another good session yesterday! I'm glad because my T is going away so I don't have a session next week.

I asked more about walks and told her there's no way I can make my thinking about her "zipping up her coat" normal, that it may be se*ual. She said, "So what if it's not normal? What's normal anyway? Those are just thoughts I'm having and I don't have to give them so much attention."

She wanted to know if I wanted to do EMDR or go on a walk! I wanted to do both but there wasn't time, so I chose EMDR since we haven't done it for awhile. We haven't taken a walk in over a year, but it didn't seem like the right day for it. I think that in spite of what she said, I didn't want to be triggered by intrusive thoughts this week. I do feel relieved, though! Even if it's the part who is "in love with her", T still likes and accepts me.

I asked to hold her hand near the end of the session and she did. I think I was "in love with her" yesterday. I felt a deep connection with her because I showed her my artwork and we talked about art and how therapeutic it is for me to be getting back into it, at her suggestion. I also talked a little about my father during EMDR. It was hard but I need to talk more about both of my parents. It was okay to feel good with my T, to feel so connected and a little "in love" too.

Thoughts are like dreams to me; they don't necessarily make sense or appear normal, just wander up from whatever is going on in consciousness as well as unconsciousness. I don't think they are controllable, just usable.

Sometimes "normal" is just the setting on a dryer!

i think it was great that you talked about you parents some and not spent the session talking about the relationship with T.

My t asks me my definition of "normal" quite often because I use that term a lot.
Bluemountains

Thanks for writing what you did, Perna.

I like that, nicole.

Well, a lot of the session was spent talking about my drawing and about art, only a little about my parents. I can't seem to tolerate talking about them much. I said I have confusing feelings about my father.

What was most important to me in the session, however, WAS about my relationship with my T. I feel such a sense of relief because of how she answered me about the walks and my fixation with her zipping up her coat. She didn't minimize my feelings, just "normalized" them. She likes me no matter what I feel about her! That's HUGE for me! It makes me feel better about myself. I can be ME, whatever that means. It takes a lot of pressure off of me. She doesn't think I"m weird. I always knew that, but I FEEL it now.

I like Nicole's answer: Normal is just the setting on the dryer!

(((Rainbow))) What you describe is very much a re-parenting process. That is what a T can do with some clients that can really help out.

Thinking about that, I am reminded about how my oldest neice (my brother's first of four daughters) was when she was about 5 years old. She would hang all over her daddy and had such total love in her eyes. My brother is an AMAZING father to his girls and has NEVER crossed a line. It was such a PURE and healthy relationship that was growing and evolving between them. She is now 14 and has a different relationship with her dad, but only in that it is stronger and more mature. But she would say cute things infront of the whole family (even her mom) like "I LOVE DADDY! I am going to marry him when I grow up!"

She was feeling pure love for him and that was the only emotional reference she understood at that young age. My brother accepted this love with a full heart and never said anything to put down that love or say "Oh you can't do that." He understood that when the relationship had matured, his daughter would very naturally learn the differences in love forms. Sure enough, she has discovered boys and is off to a very healthy start in those areas. She has respect for herself because her dad treated her love with respect. And she has a much fuller and more defined love for her father that is a beautiful and healthy love.

I think a good T (like yours and mine) allow a client to love them in the client's own way and with respect. As long as the client stays safe for both themselves and the T, it is healthy. The client may never have experienced the fullness of love that healthy children experience for a healthy parent. That experience is a vital part of growing up. So we are honored and respected in our love. We are watched because the T knows we will mature and the relationship will mature as time goes by. If we stall out, T will know how to help move us forward again.

So let yourself feel what you feel for your T. You are doing a WONDERFUL job with being honest! I wish I could do what you are doing with that. My own terror of being hurt keeps me emotionally shutting down and pushing T away from my heart. I look forward to the times when I can trust myself and the relationship enough to feel inside of it. Sometimes I do though. :-) And when that happens, my T responds to me the same way my brother responds to his daughters - with that silent accepting heart that lets us safely grow. Just like what your T is doing right now.

I am glad you had a good session Rainbow, you've had a rough few weeks!

That sounds so nice rainbow I'm glad you are filled up with the feeling of connection . It just feels so good.

What you wrote brought tears to my eyes, WePow. You have such a way with words, and you understand how it is for me. I hope you feel the feelings you're talking about more and more with your T!I don't know if my T realizes how much what she said affected me. She made me feel good inside, and I still feel it. I'm sure it's a sum of the way she's treated me all along, but sometimes it takes a stroke of luck to hit on the right phrase that will help. I feel loved by my T even though she didn't say it. I only hope I can keep this feeling inside of me, as it's so beautiful I don't ever want to lose it.

Thanks, wiki!

Yes, that's how I feel. Filled up with the feeling of connection. It doesn't feel wrong, either. It feels so good, as you say. I'm glad that you've felt that too! How do we make it last, though?

I'm still feeling good, though it's hard to trust myself and my T. There's the urge to make it bad, not good. To make it be my pattern, and bad for me. To say it's bad to feel so good about my T's smile, her words, her caring about me. I'm ashamed of feeling the love on both sides. T is giving me enough, but can I accept feeling like this? I've never been totally accepted like she accepts me. It's kind of overwhelming as much as it's soothing.

Thanks I needed this today!

I understand completely. You articulated very well what I can't but that is exactly how I am feeling about my T right now. I am trying to figure out if I am infatuated by her because of this, or if it is the healthy agape love, I don't know. But I am definitely there with you! So overwhelmed and confused! Thank you for your posts.

Rainbow, you know what struck me more out of what you T said? "Those are just thoughts I'm having and I don't have to give them so much attention." You spend what seems like an excessive amount of energy worrying about your thinking: is it normal? is it too good? is it my pattern? yadda, yadda. Seems like your T is trying to tell you to stop thinking so much. You just go round and round in circles all the time -- ruminating, over-analyzing yourself into misery. Backing away or just accepting that your thoughts are thoughts and don't have to be "solved" immediately might lessen your anxiety a great deal it would seem. I don't know. Just my observation over time. (Gotta go. Off to the pool with the kids. I'll get back to this later.)

farmergirl: I agree with you! Totally. I bet you're surprised I said that. I've never been diagnosed with it but I think I have OCD. For some reason, I feel a need to go over and over my thoughts and feelings. Part of the reason may be to keep them alive, to be sure it really happened and I'm not deceiving myself. Along with that goes my need to have others validate my thoughts and feelings.

I KNEW, in my rational mind, that my thread was done, and any more would confuse me and serve no purpose. I KNEW that my T accepted me, her words were helpful, and I can feel good about it. But I couldn't, and can't let it go. The problem is that I feel like I need the outside validation, and the only place I can get it is here. I'm being totally honest. When my thread "disappears", I feel let down, like what I wrote isn't as significant as I thought. Or isn't real. Or no one cares about me anymore.

But it's MY life. Not anyone else's here. I shouldn't need anyone else's validation for what went on in my session. I shouldn't even need to post about it! I shouldn't need to analyze it to death.

So, this is the here and now. Needing help with this forum. How can I not feel like I have to get an endless supply of validation for my own feelings, and not go round and round? I'm even doing that right now, asking this question. I see the problem, Chris. You're smart for pointing it out. Not to put you on the spot, but what do you think I should do about it? I guess this is called rumination or something like that. Obsessive thinking.

One more thought. I WAS okay until I thought I needed to talk about it more, and post more. It felt like a compulsion to talk about how I felt at my session. I don't KNOW why that is. I used to journal but now I feel like I need the validation and feedback. I know it's an issue in itself that I've skirted around in my therapy. Probably not enough.

My T did say I'm spending too much time on this forum. Maybe she's right.

I was actually just commenting on what is going on inside your own head over and over and over again, not about posting on PC. The posting is healthy; the rumination that has got to drive you just up the wall is a whole other issue. I sure don't have the answers; wish I did. Have you approached this whole idea of rumination with your t? I would think (a) she clearly already knows this about you, and (b) she should be able to help you work on finding a way to accept your thoughts without having to beat them to death.

My T is into this whole mindfulness thing. I'm trudging through the book he wanted me to read (reluctantly) and it talks a great deal about how rumination is probably the major cause of depression and how through mindfulness we can learn to not judge our thoughts, but accept them as whatever they are and move forward. (It doesn't present it as an easy endeavor, however, which I respect.) I'm absolutely no expert on mindfulness; I'm actually very resistant to the whole idea. But I keep thinking of you as I'm reading (see we think of you even when your threads aren't on the first page.)

Anyway, please don't think I'm judging you; I'm the last person to judge. More just concern and observation I guess. Take it easy on yourself; be kind to yourself. You are a beautiful person and your thoughts are truly okay, just a bit excessive (but you know that).

My T is even bigger into mindfulness than yours is! I try to be mindful and do everything she suggests, but you're right, it's not easy. We've talked about what I do, but not so much. She knows, though. My former T used to say I spin my wheels all of the time, and my daughter has told me "you don't know when to move on, Mom". She was talking about relationships (friends from the past). I know my T will say to spend more time on my drawing or something away from this computer.

See, I think it IS tied in with the forum. If I'm busy with something else, I don't ruminate because I'm being mindful. But when I click on PC, or even before I do, I start thinking about my T and what I posted in whatever thread I started. Then I want to talk about it more. So the cycle starts. I wasn't thinking about her for about the last hour but now I'm back. It's like Pavlov's dog! When I think about T other times, my immediate thought is that I have to post it on PC! So, yes--a little addictive I'd say. When my T asked if I go on my forum every night I said yes. What I didn't say is that whenever I'm home and my H isn't on the computer, I'm also on the forum. I could be drawing now, but here I am, thinking about my T.

I know you're not judging me, Chris. I always value your straightforward, common sense approach.

i used to get told that dryer answer a lot; whenever i try to explain to people i'm not normal! or that my thinking isn't etc. ........... i guess in the end; does it matter if something is or isn't, what counts is that it's true for us and somehow we have to deal with it. that's good the session went so well i thought you would have chosen the walk, so good job going for the emdr instead

Just wondering, tigergirl. Why do you think it's better that I chose EMDR and not the walk? My T gave me reasons why walking is useful, and reminded me that I did talk to her when we went on the walks. I didn't think she remembered, but apparently she did. Not that I don't talk in the session. I do. But walking is more casual, and can be more freeing in some ways. I'm thinking that I can enjoy being with her and walking, and still gain a lot. We would only walk for about 30 minutes, so I'd have a whole hour left, anyway. My sessions are 90 minutes. I'm not going to worry about how I feel with her until I'm actually with her.

hi rainbow; i don't think either choice is better; more that i would probably have chosen the walk and thought i remembered you talking about wanting to walk with your T awhile ago so thought you would also. With what seemed like a different choice it just seemed more like stepping out of the familiar; and i was saying good job to that