[rainbow8]

Actually, my T says she is not changing anything, that her stated goal has always been for me to be the one to comfort my parts, not her. She's correct; I looked at emails throughout my therapy where she said that. But today's session hurt, and I would like to talk about it.

It's hard for me to sit with my feelings. The DBT coordinator and I finally stopped playing phone tag. She told me she made a mistake and there is a wait to get into the day group. She'll find out for sure when I can start and call me back tomorrow.

My T was happy to hear how well I coped during the week. I told her it's because nothing triggered me. She wanted to know how I felt by not emailing her, and I said "powerful". She liked that. We talked about why I decided to do something about it, finally, and I told her that my "thread" on this forum is what started it all. So, in spite of some posts that I didn't like, everyone's caring and honesty got to me. I told T that you guys know me longer than she does, and I knew that what you said was true. So, thank you, again.

So, T went to another somatic experiencing workshop and wanted to do an exercise about boundaries with me. I used pillows to make my boundaries. She moved farther away from me so I could do it. Then she asked where my H would be, and my Mom. I said my Mom was too close to me sometimes, and that was fine when I was lonely not when I didn't want her there. I said I didn't have a choice! T thought that was a brilliant insight. My T likes me. But I started feeling sad, and looked away. She wanted to know how I felt then, and where was I? I didn't want to tell her that I was sad because I wanted her closer to me. I said something about wanting her to be next to me on the couch holding my hand, but she let that pass by! She was interested in if I know when I am going to do "that", what I did.

I'm not sure what it is. Is it disassociating? I called it "freezing" and we talked about flight, fight, or freeze response to trauma. I said "what trauma" and she said even my relationship with my Mom could have been traumatic. A few minutes later I did "it" again. I look away because I want it to be about her and me! I told her that.

I told her how I hate the "body" questions and want to freeze when she asks me where I feel something. We are going to talk about that more. It's more about shame than wanting to freeze, I think.

Near the end of the session instead of letting me talk about her and me she said "let's chit/chit" and she asked me about something, I don't even remember what any more! I said I don't know if I can go another week without emailing. She said I can! She said she's not going anywhere. I don't understand that! But she's not letting it be about her and me. I feel like I can't stand it. She said "how about a hug" so we did. Hugs aren't triggering for me. They're okay, and that's all.

I left and cried in the car before I could leave.

I know I need to get through this. I called my friend and talked about it. She says I'm doing great, and it will get easier.

It hurts all over, though.

I know you call this tough love, but really she's being really gentle and caring with you. You did really well this week, and it will get easier as you go and realize you can cope with things more and more on your own. Good work.

[rainbow8]

I know, Chris. I don't think my T has a mean bone in her body. She's always gentle and caring but I still ache all over and feel like I'm not really "here."

What does your T have to do with your feeling like your not really "here"? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

[rainbow8]

Probably nothing. I think I'm trying to block out my strong feelings about the way she acted with me today. I'm also extremely tired. I had a busy day and forced myself to go out at night. I'm exhausted and feel like I can barely stand up. I'm going to bed very soon but I don't want to because I don't want to cry more. I'm sad because I wish T could comfort me. I wish she would have held my hand. She would have if I had asked her. Or maybe I did ask her. I don't know what happened but I feel like she wasn't there for me the way I wanted. It feels like NEED, though. Not want, but need.

But it is want. Try to remember that to put some perspective on it. Go to bed and get some rest.

Here's a comparison for the way I see this situation...

By not e-mailing your T you are adding another building block to your foundation so that at some point in the future you can stand on your own. Building that foundation can be a difficult process, but the more you add another block, the stronger that foundation will become.

By not letting it be about her, maybe she is trying to help you foster independence.

As for the "freezing" thing that you are talking about, I'm not sure if it's dissociating because you don't give much detail about the occurrence, but it's probably in response to the emotions that are coming up. When strong feelings surface, people react in different ways. In your case, the moment where you "freeze" is probably your way of coping with those emotions. It might be your way of trying to block them or relieve yourself from the uncomfortable feelings. Because for many of us, it is very scary to sit with and be with our emotions in the present. And as a result, we go by any means to get rid of them or run away from them when sometimes what we really need to do is recognize that they are there. Sometimes it's helpful to ask ourselves a few questions: What am I feeling- does it have a name? Or does it have a word that can accurately describe it? What may have led me to feel this way? How can I go about dealing with these feelings in a healthy way?

Here's my take on the difference between needing and wanting. When we want something, that something is a luxury. When we need something, that something is a necessity for our survival. We can live without our wants. We typically can't live without our needs. We may be unhappy if we don't get what we want, but we're not going to die as a result. Does that make sense?

The uncomfortable feelings are tagging along for the ride, but you are making progress on your journey! Keep that chin up!

[mixedup_emotions]

I'd imagine that part of you is recognizing the loss...which is very difficult to face and allow to sink in. (( HUGS ))

[Luce]

I disagree with the assumption that your need for connection with T is a 'want' rather than a 'need'. I fully believe that you experience it as an all consuming need. From what I can see it seems like it is your primary defence (way to soothe your emotions) against pain. Focusing on your relationship with T is a great way to avoid exploring the ton of issues you are burying about your relationship with your mom. And I do believe you experience it as an all-pervading need - I believe all your mom stuff is simple that unbearable.

One comment you made had me thinking. You said 'I didn't want to tell her I was sad because I wanted her closer to me."
Rhetorical questions for you (as in you don't have to answer here, but just think about them for yourself):

Do you feel that T will somehow 'move away' from you if you experience 'negative' emotions?
How did your mom react when you were sad or angry? Did she support you? Soothe you? Emotionally abandon you? Ignore you?
Who soothed you as a child? How?
If you do believe T will 'move away' from you if you feel sadness etc, does this impact on your ability to express feelings in therapy?

Experiencing/perceiving the desire for connection with her T as a need doesn't make it a need though. Needs are about survival: food, shelter, water, etc. If our needs are not taken care of, our actual survival is threatened. Rainbow, you may feel like you cannot survive without a connection to your T, but that is not the reality. The reality is that your T is actually already there; it just feels different to you right now. You are experiencing an emotion in response to perceiving a change in your interactions with your T, but you can certainly live through feeling that longing learn to recognize that she hasn't gone anywhere except in your mind.

[Perna]

I like that you had a busy day and forced yourself to go out in the evening; you need to do that with your thoughts, too. It is very like an addiction? You have to treat the whole, not just the physical (busy day). Your head and heart have only known the habit of looking at/for the next "fix" so it is very hard now to think about anything else. I would make a plan, think about how you would like it to be; the two of you just chit chatting, catching up, like two regular women friends fond of each other but each with their own busy life; and about how you could become one of those women and work on holding that in your head and heart.

[geez]

I'm so proud of you (((rainbow!!))). Think of not emailing her as being a 'workout'. It hurts at first but it does get easier. You are exercising a muscle that isn't used to be used.

Thank you so much for posting your session. I swear you were writing about me! (looking away etc..). I too hate the questions of where are you feeling it in your body! - I don't want to go there!!!!!!!

[unaluna]

if it makes it any easier, there's a new word for it - the crotchal area lots of really good postings here. people here are just so effing wonderful not kidding

[adel34]

Hi Rainbow,
Sorry you had a rough session. It sounded very productive though and like you got a lot of good work done. Good job!
If I were you I would be struggling just as much. It's very difficult for me to comfort myself, so I would struggle with my therapist not sitting next to me holding my hand ETC. I would also struggle with not e-mailing her too.
Also good about the DBT program. Sorry there's a wait. There always seems to be a wait for everything. This one counseling place I found I would have to wait til august 15th just for an intake. Probably won't do that, but just amazing how in demand stuff is.

[peaches100]

(((((Rainbow))))))

I'm so proud of you! You are doing really well in facing this head on. I know it may feel to you like 'tough love,' but your t is remaining gentle and kind with you. She just doesn't want you to focus on the relationship SO MUCH that you avoid working on your other issues.

No, she didn't hold your hand. But she did initiate a hug at the close of your session. So she's not withdrawing her comfort. She's just stepping back a little bit to allow you to experiment with soothing yourself more. She is still "there" with you.

You can do this!

[Chopin99]

Good job rainbow!!!

I agree with many other posters that T is not withdrawing comfort. She initiated a hug; a very appropriate and gentle gesture that shows she cares.

You are doing really well trying to face this problem head on. I think it's a very good thing T is trying to teach you by using a physical representation of boundaries. I think those of us who have issues with boundaries have an urge to enmesh with other people; it's easier (at least for me) sometimes to just enmesh with another person. Then I don't have to deal with me.

Trust me rainbow, you and I are a lot alike and I empathize with you 100%. I know it's hard, so very very hard. I'm determined to make it though and the work you are doing shows me that you are too!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Allein

Here's a comparison for the way I see this situation...

By not e-mailing your T you are adding another building block to your foundation so that at some point in the future you can stand on your own. Building that foundation can be a difficult process, but the more you add another block, the stronger that foundation will become.

By not letting it be about her, maybe she is trying to help you foster independence.

As for the "freezing" thing that you are talking about, I'm not sure if it's dissociating because you don't give much detail about the occurrence, but it's probably in response to the emotions that are coming up. When strong feelings surface, people react in different ways. In your case, the moment where you "freeze" is probably your way of coping with those emotions. It might be your way of trying to block them or relieve yourself from the uncomfortable feelings. Because for many of us, it is very scary to sit with and be with our emotions in the present. And as a result, we go by any means to get rid of them or run away from them when sometimes what we really need to do is recognize that they are there. Sometimes it's helpful to ask ourselves a few questions: What am I feeling- does it have a name? Or does it have a word that can accurately describe it? What may have led me to feel this way? How can I go about dealing with these feelings in a healthy way?

Here's my take on the difference between needing and wanting. When we want something, that something is a luxury. When we need something, that something is a necessity for our survival. We can live without our wants. We typically can't live without our needs. We may be unhappy if we don't get what we want, but we're not going to die as a result. Does that make sense?

The uncomfortable feelings are tagging along for the ride, but you are making progress on your journey! Keep that chin up!

Thank you very much, Allein. Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense to me. I feel better than I did yesterday. My T has always wanted me to be happier in my RL. When I think about that, I feel stronger and can cope better.

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I'd imagine that part of you is recognizing the loss...which is very difficult to face and allow to sink in. (( HUGS ))

Yes, it's a loss that I haven't wanted to face for years, and it's hard. Thank you for posting.

Originally Posted by Luce

I disagree with the assumption that your need for connection with T is a 'want' rather than a 'need'. I fully believe that you experience it as an all consuming need. From what I can see it seems like it is your primary defence (way to soothe your emotions) against pain. Focusing on your relationship with T is a great way to avoid exploring the ton of issues you are burying about your relationship with your mom. And I do believe you experience it as an all-pervading need - I believe all your mom stuff is simple that unbearable.

One comment you made had me thinking. You said 'I didn't want to tell her I was sad because I wanted her closer to me."
Rhetorical questions for you (as in you don't have to answer here, but just think about them for yourself):

Do you feel that T will somehow 'move away' from you if you experience 'negative' emotions?
How did your mom react when you were sad or angry? Did she support you? Soothe you? Emotionally abandon you? Ignore you?
Who soothed you as a child? How?
If you do believe T will 'move away' from you if you feel sadness etc, does this impact on your ability to express feelings in therapy?

I want to clarify what I wrote about feeling sad. I'm not afraid to feel sad with my T. I didn't want to tell her that I suddenly felt sad BECAUSE I wanted her to sit close to me and hold my hand. I felt embarrassed that those needy feelings were still so important to me, that I wanted to go there in spite of wanting to change. Your questions are good ones. I don't remember letting my parents see me when I was sad, or getting soothed at all. I remember being affectionate with my Mom, but not crying with her. When I was angry when my brother used to hit me, and tease me, they punished him. When I was 6 and my cousins did something semi-abusive, I didn't tell my parents. I just don't remember feeling sad with my Mom or Dad until I graduated college and cried in the car because I broke up with my boyfriend.

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Experiencing/perceiving the desire for connection with her T as a need doesn't make it a need though. Needs are about survival: food, shelter, water, etc. If our needs are not taken care of, our actual survival is threatened. Rainbow, you may feel like you cannot survive without a connection to your T, but that is not the reality. The reality is that your T is actually already there; it just feels different to you right now. You are experiencing an emotion in response to perceiving a change in your interactions with your T, but you can certainly live through feeling that longing learn to recognize that she hasn't gone anywhere except in your mind.

Yes, my T IS there for me. You're right. It feels like a need but I'm doing okay with less of her. I still have the connection with her. Maybe that's what she meant when she said "I'm right here. I'm not going anywhere.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by peaches100

(((((Rainbow))))))

I'm so proud of you! You are doing really well in facing this head on. I know it may feel to you like 'tough love,' but your t is remaining gentle and kind with you. She just doesn't want you to focus on the relationship SO MUCH that you avoid working on your other issues.

No, she didn't hold your hand. But she did initiate a hug at the close of your session. So she's not withdrawing her comfort. She's just stepping back a little bit to allow you to experiment with soothing yourself more. She is still "there" with you.

You can do this!

I keep trying to post a reply but I get the message there are too many smilies. Then when I delete them, my reply is too short. That's why I'm doing it in parts, not all at once.

Yes, Peaches. You're right. I feel good that T asked me if I wanted a hug. It lessened my feeling of losing something I need from her. I know she's still there with me, more than any other T I've ever had. Thanks for reminding me.

Originally Posted by Perna

I like that you had a busy day and forced yourself to go out in the evening; you need to do that with your thoughts, too. It is very like an addiction? You have to treat the whole, not just the physical (busy day). Your head and heart have only known the habit of looking at/for the next "fix" so it is very hard now to think about anything else. I would make a plan, think about how you would like it to be; the two of you just chit chatting, catching up, like two regular women friends fond of each other but each with their own busy life; and about how you could become one of those women and work on holding that in your head and heart.

It's hard, Perna. I felt a little annoyed that my T so obviously "made us" chit/chat instead of holding my hand of letting me talk more about my relationship with her and feeling needy. Yes, I wanted my "fix" but I see that I was getting it. T IS trying to fix me so I will be happier!

Originally Posted by geez

I'm so proud of you (((rainbow!!))). Think of not emailing her as being a 'workout'. It hurts at first but it does get easier. You are exercising a muscle that isn't used to be used.

Thank you so much for posting your session. I swear you were writing about me! (looking away etc..). I too hate the questions of where are you feeling it in your body! - I don't want to go there!!!!!!!

Thanks, geez. When I look away, I think it's about disconnecting, not disassociating. I'm trying to be curious about that. I used to do that when I was young and didn't talk to my relatives. I just couldn't cope with the situation, so I tuned out but I was still there.

Originally Posted by hankster

if it makes it any easier, there's a new word for it - the crotchal area lots of really good postings here. people here are just so effing wonderful not kidding

Hey, the "crotchal area" is NOT what I'm thinking of when T asks me that question. Maybe some of the time. More likely, it's my bladder but I don't want to say that either. Well, I tell her "I have to go to the bathroom".

Originally Posted by adel34

Hi Rainbow,
Sorry you had a rough session. It sounded very productive though and like you got a lot of good work done. Good job!
If I were you I would be struggling just as much. It's very difficult for me to comfort myself, so I would struggle with my therapist not sitting next to me holding my hand ETC. I would also struggle with not e-mailing her too.
Also good about the DBT program. Sorry there's a wait. There always seems to be a wait for everything. This one counseling place I found I would have to wait til august 15th just for an intake. Probably won't do that, but just amazing how in demand stuff is.

Yes, waiting is HARD. I hope you find a counselor soon, Adel. Thanks for posting to me.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Good job rainbow!!!

I agree with many other posters that T is not withdrawing comfort. She initiated a hug; a very appropriate and gentle gesture that shows she cares.

You are doing really well trying to face this problem head on. I think it's a very good thing T is trying to teach you by using a physical representation of boundaries. I think those of us who have issues with boundaries have an urge to enmesh with other people; it's easier (at least for me) sometimes to just enmesh with another person. Then I don't have to deal with me.

Trust me rainbow, you and I are a lot alike and I empathize with you 100%. I know it's hard, so very very hard. I'm determined to make it though and the work you are doing shows me that you are too!

I didn't mean to not answer you. Like I said, I couldn't multi-quote everyone at once.

I agree with you about boundaries and that we are alike. That's why I'm concerned and answered you the way I did in your thread about your session. Thanks for your support. I will support you too!