Follow up issues from unusual session yesterday

If you read my thread from last night, you'll know that at the end of my regular session, T mentioned she couldn't get her iPad to work properly and I offered to help fix it. She allowed me to and I stayed 40 minutes past session trying to fix it before I gave up. At that time, I told her I could ask H for assistance because he's better with technology than I am. I said I could either email instructions (I've done this one time before regarding her iPod) or stay after next session (I'm normally the last client of the day; 4:00 appointment). She said I could email instructions because one of the receptionists booked her for a 5:00 after my next session (which she was unhappy about). I told her no problem.

So when I got home, I asked H what to do about her issue. He said I should email a series of questions each dependent on the answer of the one before. I sent an email last night asking the first question. She didn't answer until this morning. I didn't mind that; I had a hard time processing session yesterday and spent most of the evening on here.

Then this is where it went awry. I replied to her answer by asking if she had her computer at work today (most of the time she does not), so assuming she did not, I asked if she was okay emailing outside of her work time (usually she's fine with this, but I wanted to make sure). She replied only answering the question about the computer (she didn't have it at work). I replied to that by re-asking about emailing outside of her work day. I have yet to hear back from her.

I realize she's probably just in session and tends to take her clients back to back with no break. Usually noon or 1:00 is her lunch hour, I hope she emails before 2:00. I'm already anxious because she is usually curt via email, there is a big delay (but likely justified by her work schedule), and because I'm afraid she'll decide this was a mistake and pull boundaries on me.

This is the part I hate about her "flexible" boundaries.

either way it is hard to wate and i feel the insecurities vibe you are feeling.i don't know much about the boundary thing my T has very strong boundarys with me and i think i like that.maybe i'm in a very differnt place then you are.i do wish i had some majic words to take the anxiety away.it kind of sucks i mean in a way you just want to help her with her computer problems.i wish there didn't have to be so many boundary problems attached to it.

Chop, remember through all this she asked for the help. As long as you keep the questions to the specific thing-then there should be no issue. If there is, then just let her know that you were trying to help her out and was not trying to make more out of it and perhaps next time she could get a tech guy to fix it. Like you said-it's probably her work schedule. Who knows what's going on with her other clients. Maybe she has to hospitalize 5 people today. Not sure.. Just hypothetically speaking.. Work is probably keeping her away from answering. Try not to worry.

I still have a tendency to take things personally; I have to watch that. She probably just had back to back clients (she doesn't work with people who would need hospitalization). What I want her to know is that no matter where her boundaries are, I am not trying to overstep her boundaries. That is what I am trying to do in life in general.

My H feels that I work best with a T who does have flexible boundaries because I tend to buck hard-and-fast ones. Maybe T realizes that and that's why she's flexible with me. She once told me she is very clinical with some clients, she can do either.

She's definitely carved a niche in her practice which must be nice (no DD, severe SA, or serious MI); she mostly works with females age 14 and up, couples, and I've seen a couple of men. She deals mainly with depression, anxiety, OCD, complicated grief, relationship issues, women's issues, anger management, divorce, domestic abuse, and trauma.

Now it's after 2:00 and I'm nervous. I figure if she hasn't emailed by 5 (the end of her work day), I'll email her again telling her I was just worried about impinging on her boundaries and give her the next step of the process with her iPad.

It's not going to work very well if she won't email me outside of her work day. Her work day is too busy for her to do the stuff even if she had the computer with her.

why can't you just email her the list of steps? I mean, how long does it get? things i've seen online, are like 4 separate blocks of 5 instructions, depending on your results. so maybe 20 lines total. more practical than emailing back and forth step by step.

My question reading this statement and thinking about many of your other posts is are her boundaries flexible or inconsistent?

In this entire thread it also seems to me that you are conjecturing a lot based on no information from her (hmm, I know all about this...). For example: "Maybe T realizes that and that's why she's flexible with me. She once told me she is very clinical with some clients, she can do either." It seems that you all do need to have a boundary talk, which I know you wrote early this morning that you wanted to steer away from. But you also said that you'll deal with this when it comes up. Is it coming up today?

It's up to your T to decide if she's going to email you outside of her work day or not. It could be that offering to fix her iPod was not a therapeutically good idea. Again, I see you focusing on stuff that's not therapy. Just like me.

e:Or perhaps direct her to the closest Apple store ( if one is available) or the website of an online resource. Then she can do it at her leisure and there will be no back and forth and no ?ing of boundaries. You need to protect yourself in this also, and it sounds like this is causing you some anxiety. You could remove yourself from the situation and go have some fun. Good luck!

I didn't reply yesterday, Chopin, because I wasn't quite sure what to think of your interaction with your t. Today, I will have to agree that you may need to define boundaries once again. I know that you discussed the past and how your t handled you a few months ago. I remember many of the details from posts. Now your relationship has matured into something you don't know how to define, so if I was in your situation I would ask t to set boundaries again.
As for the computer issue, it is very kind of you and your husband to try to help. Did you think of directing her to youtube? I always am able to find a solution to any technical problem I have.
Bluemountains

I think her answering only with technical questions about the computer means she's just wanting info about the computer. She's a big girl. If she has further questions for you husband about the computer, she'll email about them when she can. If she doesn't get around to it today, that is her problem. I suspect if she gets home tonight and needs your husband's help with her computer, she'll email those questions.

I don't see this as anything to do with you and boundaries quite honestly. Email the instructions and let it be. If she needs more input, she can email those questions. No need to ask her about boundaries concerning this as you have no need to email her after hours about this unless she emails a question to you first.

Don't continue to email her about this. She'll contact you if she needs to about the computer.

Just another thought. If my T had a problem I or my H could solve, I would JUMP at the chance. She has asked me something I know more about than she does, a couple of times, and I told her the answer, but that was a simple question. Still, I would jump at the chance because it would be something I shared with T, and maybe no one else did. I'd be more in her life. I would be happy, but it wouldn't help me in the long run.

I don't know if this relates to your situation or not, Chopin. I'm writing it, knowing intellectually, but still crying inside about my own relationship with my T.

farmergirl, your answer makes perfect logical sense except to someone like me and maybe Chopin.

I did that last time with the iPod and that didn't work. Then again, she defined the problem wrong, so H and I were trying to fix a problem she didn't actually have. She is really bad with technology. When I was helping her in person yesterday she looked like a deer in the headlights. I called her a Luddite awhile back and she didn't even know what that meant.

That's true, but I also am learning from the whole thing. I still believe (it's one of the strongest beliefs I hold) that everything happens for a purpose. I am learning where some of my triggers are and what I look for in a "mother figure". No matter how this thing turns out, it's grist for the mill.

Thanks for this, but we don't have an Apple store within 100 miles of where I live. If the problem were as simple as looking it up, I could've helped her yesterday. Some components are missing from the iPad that shouldn't be. I don't know what she did, but like her colleague told her, "Your iPad doesn't even look right."

I'm probably going to have to have a boundaries discussion next session. Youtube will not help this woman. So whether it's me and H or someone else, she will have to be walked through it. I don't know if she will even "get it" through our instructions since we're not standing there with her.

I agree with rainbow below. It does make logical sense...and the tech issue in and of itself may not be about boundaries at all. I was simply being nice by offering; I really didn't expect her to accept the help, and after 20 minutes of working on it, really didn't expect her to say yes to me going to my car and getting my own iPad. I also expected it to be a cut-and-dry problem and it was far from it.

Of course I jumped. One, like I said above, I didn't actually expect her to take me up on the help. Two, I expected her to decline further help.

I will simply email once more with the next set of instructions. I will tell her I asked the question because I was trying to be respectful of her boundaries. Then I will let it be. Thanks everyone for your input.

I have helped my T with one legal thing once, but made it clear that I was doing it because his forms annoyed me, and that we did not have a dual relationship and I do not represent him. [he gave me a release of information authorization form to sign once and it was total crap. Wasn't even CLOSE to complying with HIPAA.] It took me all of five minutes to make a few changes to a form from my computer and then print it off for him. He didn't ask me for help with forms, and I simply cannot imagine that he would.

He certainly wouldn't let a client mess with his computer. We actually talked about this because my husband and I bartered legal services for computer work. T's position is that the rules are just different for attorneys and therapists and he would never feel comfortable doing that.

Your T's flexibility in the boundary area just makes me uncomfortable, Chopin. I'm not sure I would handle it well.

There may be no apple store, but there are techs for hire everywhere. And there is online support. I would direct her to either place.

I know it is exciting to have t acknowledge your expertise and ask for your help, but there is that boundary thing. My T needed to purchase a laptop and took about 15 minutes after session to ask me questions about what he should get. He isn't very technical either. It made me feel really good to help him, and I emailed him some of H's cut sheets on models that would work for him later. I don't begrudge you that good feeling at all, I just think that it has moved into something else. Possibly the desire to be t's fav?

Thanks, MKAC and Wiki.

I sent the following email:

I only asked the question about emailing outside your work day because I did not want to impinge on your boundaries.

I want to make sure of something about your iPad before I give you further instructions. On your iPad, go to "Settings". On the left side, touch "General". The middle row of the white bar on top should say "Software Update". Touch "Software Update". This should tell you if you have the absolute latest update. Does your screen say:

iOS 5.1.1
Your software is up to date.

If not and it tells you to download an update, download the update. *H* said it sounded like the update you downloaded was old or did not execute properly. Please tell me what your screen says. I cannot give you further instructions right now because I need iTunes in front of me (it's not on my work computer) and I need to know if you really do have the latest update because *T's colleague* was right; your iPad doesn't look right. I'll be home around 7:30 unless plans change. I'll check my email once I get settled and tell you the next set of instructions which will be dependent on your answer.

Have a good afternoon.

So, done. I feel good about this email. If she doesn't respond, I'll talk to her next session. That's where I know I have made progress. Before I responded to all the above posts, I got out of my head by going to the bank and grabbing some lunch. That really, really helped. I am much less anxious. Now I'm going to crank some music, get some work done, and turn off PC and my personal email until I get home. If anybody else has anything to say about it, please feel free. I appreciate feedback!!! I may not always do what people recommend, but I like to check myself against the experience of others!

Well, I gave it 1.5 hours, then I had to check my email. T did respond (after her work day ended), about the iPad, not the question about boundaries. So now I know that it is just about the iPad. That actually makes me feel a lot better. I can talk about not dealing with personal stuff via email next session.

Then again, I might not be able to help her, because this is her reply to my email:

Strangely enough when I go to general there is nothing that says software update.???? I've gone through all the "labels" no software update. This is weird.

I'm telling you, she is a disaster with tech.

I think it would be a really good idea if you referred her to AppleCare and let them handle her iPad issue. They're really very good and will be able to resolve her problem.

I also think an active discussion about boundaries would be a good idea. From your descriptions (admittedly from just the few months that I've been reading here), her boundaries look very inconsistent. How can you possibly feel secure about her boundaries when you can't tell from week to week where they are? It's almost guaranteed to foster insecurity.

A standard view among counselor educators would be that a T should not be asking for such help, or accepting such help, from a client.

The fact that you are 100 miles from an Apple store is relevant, but truly is there no nonclient whatsoever who can help her in person or online? A standard view would be that she should have found such help rather than turn to a client.