[autotelica]

I feel more connected to my therapist when we are talking about light-hearted things that make us smile and laugh. I like these moments.

But therapy isn't supposed to be all happy-happy-joy-joy. I am supposed to be able to talk about the sadness in my life too. Because that's kind of why I'm seeing her. I need help coping with life's sadness.

I like my therapist a whole lot. But where she falls down on the job a little is making me feel okay about not feeling okay. Sometimes she's too optimistic about everything. A little too "Smile! It could be worst!" Today I told her how it makes me sad that I fall out of the easy crossed-legged pose in yoga class. I have to have a wall even to support myself for that. I told her I'm sick of that stupid wall and the failure it represents.

She said, "That's ridiculous! Next class you're going to set your mat down next to the wall and use it! Don't wait for the teacher to tell you either. You ARE going to do it! So get over it!"

OK, she didn't say "get over it", but she may as well have.

And then, maybe because my face was sad-looking, she softened up a bit and said, "And of course, everyone's entitled to feel sorry for themselves once and awhile." And she smiled and made me feel a little better about being sad.

See, I know some people are going to say my therapist was wrong. But I like that she's so no-nonsense and hard-azz sometimes. It resonates with how I was raised...to be strong in the face of adversity and not be a crybaby. It makes me feel tough. But it also bugs the shtt out of me too. I don't like always having to be strong or having her compare my situation to hers or someone else's. I know it could be worse. That don't mean I gotta like what I got all the time!

Thing is, when she's say something sympathetic, I don't believe she's always genuine. Because I know she's so no-nonsense. So when she says, "That sounds real awful. I'm sorry that you're going through that!" I want to tell her to get off it. So I keep many things to myself. The negative emotions burn off of me when I'm not thinking about them, like when I'm painting or something. I guess when they build up to a extent where I can't release them, the depression will let me know and that's when I'll spill.

Part of me thinks that if I can't share my problems with my therapist, something is wrong. But then another part makes me feel like this is exactly what I need to do to learn how to cope without a therapist.

[Victoria'smom]

It sounds like you are not comfortable with sharing your soft side with your T. Maybe your worried she'll tell you to "suck it up" or reject you? I think when your finally able to show her the real you, you'll have a much better relationship w/ T.

[Silent_tsol]

How long have you been with your t?
Could it be you're still trying to trust her with more difficult topics?

[Asiablue]

i don't know about you... but i have enough people in my life telling me to "suck it up" without paying my T to do it too.

It is good to be called out on your B.S but not to the point you can't be vulnerable with her. Do you feel you could talk to her about this?

[autotelica]

I've been with her for a little less than 4.5 years.

I don't know what it is. I guess I'm starting to feel like she knows everything. She knows my struggles. She knows why I get depressed, why I have problems with people and emotions. She gives me guidance when I don't know what to say to people in given situations (today she helped me write the script I will use with my shrink in a couple of weeks). She's great at problem-solving. And she is often great at comforting. But sometimes she's not. It's usually regarding stuff that we've already been through a million times already (like my inferiority complex in yoga). And I understand. There's only so many times you can say "I'm sorry you're going through this" before you really want to say, "Come on now. Why is that still bothering you?!"

I actually think there's weirdness going on with the whole topic of yoga between us. She's also having identity issues with it. She's been doing it for 30 years and was once in fairly advanced classes, doing stuff I can't even imagine. But the vagaries of old age have set her back to the very beginning. There are poses she can't do at all. We both struggle for different reasons, but we're both struggling. So when you have the same problem and YOU aren't whining over it but the other person is, of course you're going to be a little "tough" on them. It keeps you from crumbling. (I have no idea if this hypothesis is true or not. But I figure if they can shrink our brains, I can shrink hers. ).

http://introvertish.blogspot.com/

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by autotelica

I've been with her for a little less than 4.5 years.

I don't know what it is. I guess I'm starting to feel like she knows everything. She knows my struggles. She knows why I get depressed, why I have problems with people and emotions. She gives me guidance when I don't know what to say to people in given situations (today she helped me write the script I will use with my shrink in a couple of weeks). She's great at problem-solving. And she is often great at comforting. But sometimes she's not. It's usually regarding stuff that we've already been through a million times already (like my inferiority complex in yoga). And I understand. There's only so many times you can say "I'm sorry you're going through this" before you really want to say, "Come on now. Why is that still bothering you?!"

I actually think there's weirdness going on with the whole topic of yoga between us. She's also having identity issues with it. She's been doing it for 30 years and was once in fairly advanced classes, doing stuff I can't even imagine. But the vagaries of old age have set her back to the very beginning. There are poses she can't do at all. We both struggle for different reasons, but we're both struggling. So when you have the same problem and YOU aren't whining over it but the other person is, of course you're going to be a little "tough" on them. It keeps you from crumbling. (I have no idea if this hypothesis is true or not. But I figure if they can shrink our brains, I can shrink hers. ).

http://introvertish.blogspot.com/

Wow, you could be right about the yoga thing. MAybe she's underestimated how much it's still bothering you? I still think you both need to have a chat about how you're feeling. x

[mixedup_emotions]

I certainly understand where you're coming from....I've been with my T for about 3-1/2 years. And lately, when I've been really, really down, he'd say things like, "Don't start feeling sorry for yourself"...or something along the lines of "there are people out there worse off than you"....

Thanks for minimizing my feelings, T!

Over the last few weeks, we've addressed this somewhat. But it takes me sooooo long to express my feelings...especially when they're difficult feelings. I told T last week, in recapping those couple of awful sessions, that I felt rejected by him. He asked me where I wanted to take it. I said I wanted to take a nap...and changed the subject.

I hope you decide to talk to your T about this.

[lostmyway21]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I certainly understand where you're coming from....I've been with my T for about 3-1/2 years. And lately, when I've been really, really down, he'd say things like, "Don't start feeling sorry for yourself"...or something along the lines of "there are people out there worse off than you"....

Thanks for minimizing my feelings, T!

Over the last few weeks, we've addressed this somewhat. But it takes me sooooo long to express my feelings...especially when they're difficult feelings. I told T last week, in recapping those couple of awful sessions, that I felt rejected by him. He asked me where I wanted to take it. I said I wanted to take a nap...and changed the subject.

I hope you decide to talk to your T about this.

No way your T says that!

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by lostmyway21

No way your T says that!

Unfortunately, yes, he has said those things.

We talked about it in subsequent sessions, and he tried to explain that his intention was to try to "put things in perspective" so that I wouldn't sink too far.

He now knows that it is not a strategy that works for me. (I can't imagine it working for anybody, really...it's just SOOOOO dismissive and minimizing, in my eyes.)

Of course, now it leaves me feeling less trusting and much more self-conscious. I love my T, but sometimes I feel so let down by him. *sigh*

[lostmyway21]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Unfortunately, yes, he has said those things.

We talked about it in subsequent sessions, and he tried to explain that his intention was to try to "put things in perspective" so that I wouldn't sink too far.

He now knows that it is not a strategy that works for me. (I can't imagine it working for anybody, really...it's just SOOOOO dismissive and minimizing, in my eyes.)

Of course, now it leaves me feeling less trusting and much more self-conscious. I love my T, but sometimes I feel so let down by him. *sigh*

I think I vaguely remembering my T comparing me to another client because they had similar problems when I first started. I FLIPPPPPPED out. I felt so minimized. Don't feel too bad. Mine learned his lesson, and I'm sure yours did too.

[KazzaX]

Can you take the "no nonsense" approach with your therapist (similar to how she is like that with you?)? Like you said you wanted to tell her to get off it... what if you said it to her? she might like that If she is doing the "treat others like you would want to be treated" thing then maybe she would like you to just say it bluntly to her face. If you aren't that way naturally then I guess it would be tough, but I find if you just blurt it out like its a fact, some people really appreciate it. Like me! haha

[autotelica]

lol, Kazza. I wish I had the cajones to do that. But I don't. I actually think just sitting there, not saying anything, was kind of effective because she could reflect on her words and her attitude. I think that's why she softened up. She could hear herself.

[autotelica]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Wow, you could be right about the yoga thing. MAybe she's underestimated how much it's still bothering you? I still think you both need to have a chat about how you're feeling. x

This will sound strange. But we don't have a "talk about everything" type of relationship. She talks, I listen. I ask questions, she answers them. 80% of the questions that are asked in session are coming from me. I can't imagine me sharing something like this with her. It would be so uncharacteristic of me.

I spend 3% of the time talking about my feelings. If that much. Partly because I don't know what I'm feeling and also because I always feel a bit hesitant to share my feelings on a certain subject if we've already plowed that field already. I don't have any experience I've withheld from her, so just about everything has been "plowed".

I think this must be the downside of going to a CBT? If I spend a lot of my time talking about negative experiences, I'm always afraid she'll conclude that I'm traumatized and thus in need of EMDR (which I really hate, sorry!) I have a feeling, though, that if we were just doing talk therapy, she wouldn't feel compelled to *do* anything but listen and sympathize. I think that may be the component that's missing sometimes.

[WikidPissah]

Hey auto...
Wow, sounds like a relationship gone stale. There's only two ways to fix that, talk about it or move on. You should be spending 80% of the time talking or answering HER questions. 3% of the time addressing feelings isn't going to cut it. You're in a rut, and you really need to take a step forward. I understand totally though, I am not really good at bringing stuff up either. Can you write some things out and bring them? Usually all you need to do is say "I am having some problems with our relationship" and T should know where to go.

And I totally second you on EMDR, I absolutely hated it as well.

[autotelica]

I don't know if my relationship has gone stale. It's hard to think it's gone stale when I get so much enjoyment from my sessions. They really help me to relax and "regroup". As I said, I *think* I'm coping with negative emotions in a non-maladaptive way. So maybe it doesn't matter that I'm not an open book?

But learning how to talk is a necessary part of growing up. I am already an immature person, and sometimes I think I become even more immature in session because my therapist has such a strong personality compared to mine. Also, it's not helping matters that the therapeutic focus has shifted from "growing me up" to self-acceptance. If you're shooting for self-acceptance, where does this leave negative feelings? I don't know. Maybe this will be one of my questions for next session.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by autotelica

where she falls down on the job a little is making me feel okay about not feeling okay.

This is an important part of therapy I think. We need to be able to voice our sadness and let it into the room. We need to mourn in order for it to pass. If you don't let it out without someone minimizing it, it won't pass.

Originally Posted by autotelica

I like that she's so no-nonsense and hard-azz sometimes. It resonates with how I was raised...to be strong in the face of adversity and not be a crybaby. It makes me feel tough.

I don't like always having to be strong

Originally Posted by autotelica

Thing is, when she's say something sympathetic, I don't believe she's always genuine. Because I know she's so no-nonsense. So when she says, "That sounds real awful. I'm sorry that you're going through that!" I want to tell her to get off it.

I'm wondering if this is transference where you are sending strong signals that you are not comfortable with this so she tries not to do it but it is exactly what you need?

I agree that you need to be doing 80% of the talking.

[autotelica]

I never thought I had transference issues with my therapist, but it's possible. I definitely never felt like my parents were deep wells of sympathy as a kid. They were great during happy times, but any unhappiness was met with exasperation. Or misunderstanding. I didn't even have to be unhappy, sometimes. If my face was too solemn (which is it's natural state), I'd catch hell for it.

Maybe you're right. My therapist is being tough with me because she senses it appeals to my personality. But intellectually I know I don't need help being any more tough than I am already. I need help expressing myself with words. Not through artwork, not through distraction, but through talking.

I'm never going to get to 80%, though. I don't have the lung capacity for that much talking!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by autotelica

I spend 3% of the time talking about my feelings. If that much. Partly because I don't know what I'm feeling

I think learning to know what one is feeling can be a huge thing to learn in therapy. Really important and really therapeutic too. Is this something you hope to learn in therapy (rather than going over specific content)? Soon? If you learned how to know your feelings, that could help in a lot of other areas. It is hard, but worth it!

Originally Posted by autotelica

I *think* I'm coping with negative emotions in a non-maladaptive way.

The way that is worded makes it sound like a negative accomplishment. Do you know what I mean? Is that the sort of phraseology your T uses?

Originally Posted by autotelica

my therapist has such a strong personality compared to mine

It worries me that she isn't able to dial it back enough for you. What you've said about how she talks 80% of the time leads me to believe that. Yesterday in my session I thanked my very extroverted and talkative T for giving me so much time and silence at the beginning of our session to figure out what I wanted to talk about. He told me this is a psychotherapy concept called "spaciousness." He was creating spaciousness in the room that allowed me to talk about what I needed to talk about and what was most important. I am more introverted than he is, so if he didn't do that, and just filled the space and our time with his big personality, I would end up talking little. To me, it sounds like your T doesn't do this, perhaps because she doesn't know how or perhaps because she doesn't think it would be valuable?

Originally Posted by autotelica

"And of course, everyone's entitled to feel sorry for themselves once and awhile." And she smiled and made me feel a little better about being sad.

That would feel really invalidating to me. Being sad is not the same as feeling sorry for oneself. I didn't read anything in your description that made me think you were feeling sorry for yourself. Not a great response from a T!

Originally Posted by autotelica

But I like that she's so no-nonsense and hard-azz sometimes. It resonates with how I was raised...to be strong in the face of adversity and not be a crybaby.

It might be interesting to see how you would do with a therapist who does not replicate the patterns from your childhood.

Originally Posted by autotelica

Part of me thinks that if I can't share my problems with my therapist, something is wrong.

I do think that your relationship with your T could be more therapeutic.

Originally Posted by autotelica

She's great at problem-solving.

Hmmm, that is not what I usually think is a function of a therapist.

The yoga topic sounds like an interesting one to explore further with your T.

Originally Posted by autotelica

This will sound strange. But we don't have a "talk about everything" type of relationship. She talks, I listen. I ask questions, she answers them. 80% of the questions that are asked in session are coming from me. I can't imagine me sharing something like this with her. It would be so uncharacteristic of me.

Do you want to have a "talk about everything" relationship with your T? What would you have to do to make that happen? Tell your T you want that? Start talking more? Talk about the relationship some? Therapy can be a safe place to try out new ways of behaving and being, so if something is "uncharacteristic" for you, therapy could be a great first place to try it out. Maybe your T could support you in that?

[autotelica]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I think learning to know what one is feeling can be a huge thing to learn in therapy. Really important and really therapeutic too. Is this something you hope to learn in therapy (rather than going over specific content)? Soon? If you learned how to know your feelings, that could help in a lot of other areas. It is hard, but worth it!

I know it should be a primary goal, but it's kind of taken a back seat to just making a friend. I'm trying to work within my alexithymia, rather than beating my head against the wall and trying to *fix* it, if that makes any sense. Because it's not considered something that I can fix, but rather something that's innate to my character.

The way that is worded makes it sound like a negative accomplishment. Do you know what I mean? Is that the sort of phraseology your T uses?

No, it's my phraseology. I don't think it's that negative, but I guess I can see how coping with negative emotions in a non-maladaptive way is not really that big of a deal. I guess my thinking is that I should accept that I will continue to have negative emotions--it is not realistic to expect my therapist to cure what I consider "natural" reactions. If I fall down and pee my pants, of course I'm going to feel dreadful embarrassment and some self-loathing to boot. Not all the "oh, poor you" in the world is going to make that go away. So why talk about it? I guess that's where I am.

It worries me that she isn't able to dial it back enough for you. What you've said about how she talks 80% of the time leads me to believe that. Yesterday in my session I thanked my very extroverted and talkative T for giving me so much time and silence at the beginning of our session to figure out what I wanted to talk about. He told me this is a psychotherapy concept called "spaciousness." He was creating spaciousness in the room that allowed me to talk about what I needed to talk about and what was most important. I am more introverted than he is, so if he didn't do that, and just filled the space and our time with his big personality, I would end up talking little. To me, it sounds like your T doesn't do this, perhaps because she doesn't know how or perhaps because she doesn't think it would be valuable?

I think she doesn't dial it back because I've never responded in a negative way to her approach. I like that she's so "big" and I'm so "small". It relieves me of so much pressure. I don't have to think about what I'm going to say. She gets to see me in my most comfortable, natural way.

That would feel really invalidating to me. Being sad is not the same as feeling sorry for oneself. I didn't read anything in your description that made me think you were feeling sorry for yourself. Not a great response from a T!

I know. She could have said that in a little more elegant way! But I was kind of feeling sorry for myself, right? "Poor me! I can't do the easiest pose in yoga class! Wah!" I don't think there's anything WRONG with feeling sorry for one's self, to be honest. So I didn't take it as an invalidating thing to say, but I can definitely see how it would sound that way.

Do you want to have a "talk about everything" relationship with your T? What would you have to do to make that happen? Tell your T you want that? Start talking more? Talk about the relationship some? Therapy can be a safe place to try out new ways of behaving and being, so if something is "uncharacteristic" for you, therapy could be a great first place to try it out. Maybe your T could support you in that?

No, I don't want a "talk about everything" relationship. Personally, I don't think everything is worth talking about, even if it is psychological. I like that our therapy is practical and centered on thoughts and actions rather than feelings and experiences.

But you are right that therapy is where you stretch your personality. My personality is a bit stilted and undeveloped, and I haven't really used therapy to change this. I've gained so much insight and understanding about myself, though.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by autotelica

I definitely never felt like my parents were deep wells of sympathy as a kid. They were great during happy times, but any unhappiness was met with exasperation. Or misunderstanding. I didn't even have to be unhappy, sometimes. If my face was too solemn (which is it's natural state), I'd catch hell for it.

Originally Posted by autotelica

I'm trying to work within my alexithymia, rather than beating my head against the wall and trying to *fix* it, if that makes any sense. Because it's not considered something that I can fix, but rather something that's innate to my character.

Autotelica, I am going to have to disagree that your alexithymia cannot be overcome. You have written above behavior from your parents that stifles emotional development. Yes, genetics affect how we develop but environment triggers those genetics. You can learn and develop what you didn't get the chance to while growing up.

Originally Posted by autotelica

I like that she's so "big" and I'm so "small". It relieves me of so much pressure. I don't have to think about what I'm going to say. She gets to see me in my most comfortable, natural way.

Originally Posted by autotelica

No, I don't want a "talk about everything" relationship. I like that our therapy is practical and centered on thoughts and actions rather than feelings and experiences.

But you are right that therapy is where you stretch your personality. My personality is a bit stilted and undeveloped, and I haven't really used therapy to change this. I've gained so much insight and understanding about myself, though.

You can grow and develop beyond where you are. You have to decide that this is what you want, though, and develop a plan on how you are going to get there if this is what you decide.

Auto, this sounds like a problem! You know you the client is supposed to do all the talking and to lead the way in sessions, right? Haveshe brought up the subject with you? I remember ex t sitting me down and having a talk with me about not talking enough and she felt like she was having to do all the work.
As for the lack of empathy- this would really bother me, have you spoke to her about this? Have you told her about your parents reactions to sadness and that you need some sympathy sometimes and that her no nonsense approach doesn't always work for you?
I hope it works out as you have been seeing her for a long time now (hugs)