Touching fear - real deep fear

Okay, I've posted previously about how my therapist may have been guilty of an ethical violation because he sought advice and support from me about a medical issue.

As most things in therapy do this has blown up into a much much bigger, potentially beneficial thing.

As it turns out, when I'm being totally honest with myself and him, the real issue was that he brought himself into the room. I mean really brought another human in the room.

My old therapist was there, but it was my room.

With this guy, oh... we share the room.

It's much more terrifying than my old therapy. In fact, it's outright petrifying in a way.

In my previous therapy I could count on a rock. Good for me at the time, but wholly unrealistic in the real world. Not so much here, there is no rock. In fact, there is another human in the room, with feelings. He's *there* and in a big way.

I have to deal with that. There is no more idealized version of the therapist. The "perfect" vehicle. The gandalf of my mind.

Here's a guy who is slogging it out just like me. Just like I would encounter in my life. Oh good lord. It's awful.

He also male, and not "neutered" like my old therapist. He's very much a masculine presence. Total guy.

Will this help me? I think so. I really do. Most things that scare the crap out of me, usually end up helping me a lot. He has feelings, but I'm not necessarily responsible for them. Nor him me. I think it highly unlikely that he is going to try to attack me. That's important.

That is if I just don't totally bolt. I really hope I don't do that.

I agree that we usually need to walk toward what scares us rather than walk away. But I'm a little confused about how this T is different from your last T. Is it a sexual presence? Is he just more communicative? Does the interaction feel more spontaneous?

I certainly remember times with my T when I'd see or hear him interact in different situations and think, "Wow, he's so lively--he's not like that with me." Not sure if it's the same feeling you're experiencing.

For me, the clear ethical boundary crossings are a big deal. Did you ever talk that through? If not, are you sure this realization isn't a way to discount and avoid those lapses?

I really hear you on this one, elliemay. I've come to the realization in a different way from you that my T is human, and yes, it scares the crap out of me. Why it's terrifying to me is that humans are IMPERFECT. For the first year or so I saw him as a god, a rock, a thing that I could depend on. As I poured out my heart and soul I felt safe with him.

But as I began to realize that I was dealing with another human being it was so scary! He could do anything! He could screw up! He could reject me! He could ridicule me if he wanted! I started to doubt him. I thought he was good as a T, but maybe I was just seeing what I wanted to see???? I have major trust issues, and it's easy to trust a god, but people? Not so much.

Yeah, I get the terror. I'm still dealing with this, every session. But I know that everyone in life is just a human too, and I have to learn how to trust a human knowing they eventually will hurt me in some way, hopefully not intentionally, but if the r/s is worth saving we'll work it out.

This is a tough one, and I really feel for you. Hugs - you can do it.

i have this feeling quite frequently with t. i could just never articulate it as well as you did.
rationally, i know he would never harm me physically,
but
in my child mind that is in the room most of the time, i totally feel the need to protect myself. he could hurt me, he could cause me pain.

and because of that i sit as far away from him as possible, and do not have any physical or eye contact...

must explore this more for myself... thanks for sharing.

i think you are totally brave! you can do this. i believe you have tons and tons of courage.!

My last therapist was a classic blank slate. He was the backdrop against which I fought most of my inner crap. In that sense he was perfect in the therapy. Exactly what I needed.

This new guy is very much *not* a backdrop. He shares bits of his life, he's very open with how he feels, and if something is bothering him, I know it. There is much more interaction *between* us. Not just me to him.

It's been rather shocking actually. If I am going to stay, and I am, then I am going to have to deal with a real person - not a "neutral" bystander. I am going to have to accept that real person can become as benign as that bystander.

It's very frightening actually.

Regarding his seeking comfort from me. True, I need to be wary of that. True, there needs to be some clear boundaries on what kinds of interactions we can and can't have. This *is* still therapy. I am convinced that he gets it.

While my old therapist never once came close to this kind of mistake, he did make some big ones. On occasion when he did offer up something (and he did, he wasn't exactly mute), it was wildly wrong and wildly upsetting. We would move on.

I'm definitely not avoiding an issue here, but rather I think doing my best to face it head on.

Regarding the male presence... It's just a male presence. Lots of energy, lots of action. He's kinetic. Rather strong. I can get easily overwhelmed by that and am very sensitive to and scared of it. Males can be so strong. At work etc... I usually overcompensate and have to be the alpha in the room.

I would like to work on accepting that presence a little better. They are half the population after all. I would like to feel comfortable and more "myself" around them. That's going to be *tough*.

His overall presence is going to make this a hard journey for me, but it's one I know I have to take.

THanks, and it's exactly that. It's easier to trust a "god", a figure.

is this something you've shared or plan to share with him? it really sounds encouraging the way you plan to use what many would run from as part of therapy itself and to help you progress forward ... even while its challenging

In my last session, when I was telling him all of this, I found myself scrunching as far away from him as I could. I actually was leaning over the edge of my chair. He asked me if I wanted him to move away.

I said no that I was being ridiciulous. Which I was. I righted myself in the chair, but then noticed about 5 minutes later I was doing the same thing. Oh well, I feel the way I feel.

From the outside looking in, it does look totally ridiculous and irrational, but, I'm cutting myself some slack here. For me, this fear makes total sense and it's not going to just going away because I know it's there.

It's going to take work and courage.

Oh GOD this is going to SUCK!

I think I get it now. My T became a little more like you're describing maybe 2/3 the way through therapy. If he had been like that from day 1, I think I would never have revealed myself. I would have just presented the false self that I'd been hiding behind in my life up till then.

So maybe part of his approach is a sense that you can "take" it.

This very much resonates with me. I'm almost 2 years into this kind of therapy. And I do think that it's a kind of therapy, for a specific place in healing, or for a specific challenge

My first male T was definitely neutered-- married and with a child, but he had a gentle presence more akin to a wise teenager than a *man." My second T was a woman (trained by T1). Both of them were very much empathic and nonthreatening, there was a sense of them as actual humans but not people sheathed with lives and personalities.

Looking back at this round of therapy, I think that my T has been very deliberate and planful in his openness about himself and his life, past and present. From the very beginning, he was definitely male. He is casual, dresses in cords and button down shirts, sits with his legs crossed, and is gentle and thoughtful, but non of these things neuter him in any way. Sometimes when I sit there, I see a little cartoon bubble that pulsates, "guy, guy guy!"

I don't think he's trying to get me to relate to him as a therapist. I think he's trying to get me to relate to him as a man, to be comfortable with intimacy with a man, which is exactly what I need. I've been married for a long time and have a strong and generally healthy marriage, but a shift in our marriage a few years ago has challenged me to figure out how to be myself and stay married, or even if that's what I want to do.

Part of this for me is relating intimately to a man that has so many (good) traits of the man who hurt me for much of my childhood, but experiencing it with safety and the ability to reflect on the process as an adult. I would say that my first T definitely taught me that men could be safe, and loving, and generally enabled me to get to the place where my connections with people were secure and nuanced, rather than hostile and superficial.

I think that small disclosures from the T about connecting around challenges (e.g. more daily life, such as something as dealing with maniacal people at work) are pretty routine in a lot of therapy. These kinds of disclosures don't work for people who are obsessed with the T, though. So for a T to consider going down this path of being the man-in-the-room, I think he first checked out with me that first, I was comfortable with these disclosures and second, wasn't going to hang onto them and focus on them in therapy, not myself. What I noticed is that his disclosures seemed well-boundaried-- they contained information, enough for me to get that he understood what I was talking about or going through, but they didn't include details that were not relevant. And he communicates this and then moves on and neither the disclosure nor himself encourages me to attend to him, rather than me. If I have a question or a response, he will answer it and then redirect me back to myself. I've never experienced something like, "getting back to myself and my own life, . . . . . " But every disclosure does emphasize that he is a person, with a history like me, with a marriage like me, with work like me. Although I think that I would sometimes like to diminish him into the background of my T, I really can't. I don't know if he knows that and the disclosures are part of that-- encouraging me to deal with the him in the room, not just a person, but a HIM.

I also think that part of this strategy of therapy is perhaps also getting me to relate to myself intimately in a different way. By him sharing with me about what he relates with to me, especially his similar feelings about his work and life experiences, in a lot of ways I think the way I relate to him is reflecting the way I see myself. I'm responding to him as a person, but what I am really learning to do is connect with my own feelings and experiences.

This really came into sharp focus for me when he told me he was a CSA survivor, about 9 months or so into T. I look back on it now, and I can pinpoint my reaction to his disclosure as the time I stopped beating myself up all the time, and when I really began to have compassion for myself and my child self who is pretty regular about her presence in m head. There are ways that he talks about his own healing that are both intimate yet boundaried, without gory details or anything else that encourages me to focus on him. I respond to him, but it is the connection to myself that blossoms.

There are other ways that this works for me-- when he discusses how his wife relates to him or how he relates to his wife, he shows me how I can communicate with my H or how he can communicate with me. And I learn something about myself in my reactions to his disclosures that points me towards I want to react differently with my H or my son or whoever.

Finally-- Ellie, I don't know whether your T made a mistake in asking you to give him comfort, as you put it. But I am also reasonably sure that he did not just blurt it out in a moment of weakness and that he thought about whether it would be useful in your therapy. He very well could be mistaken about that, but he could also be onto something. I would say that your reaction to his disclosure has revealed things that you would not have discovered otherwise, and that may be pointing you in a direction that you really need to go.

I think it was Billy Joel that said most of his most creative moments were his mistakes.

If this was a mistake by my therapist, frankly, all ethics aside, it was a good one.

It's working toward our advantage, it's making me look at myself. I don't like all this fear I'm seeing. I'm not liking a pattern.

Maybe this is one of the ways out and into something better.

I've been surprised over and over again in therapy how much "mistakes" by my therapist have led us down paths we might not have gone down, and how those paths end up being exactly where I needed to go.

It sounds like there is a lot of potential for healing and growth here. It would SO rock if healing and growth came all wrapped up in fun and happiness but it seems that they're usually in a big old pile of pain and fear.

that is so true in my therapy.