[granite1]

so i sent an e-mail begging my old T to take me back and to not stop seeing me as a client.so she called me back and was willing to see me yesterday evening to have a discussion about it and how i can make things easier. and she said that it needed to be a mutual discussion on both parts. meaning that i needed to participate that i was not going to be able to just sit there

i met with her .she talked a lot about needing to find a way to communicate with her. to find a way to feel safe in her office and to trust her. it was so hard to hear everything she said .probably because mostly it was true.but it hurts really bad. these are some of the things she said that were so hard to hear.they are kind of all over the place because it was a lot. she said things like she has no idea what is going on in my head,i don't share anything ,she feels that she is doing all the work and will not keep doing it, she knows nothing of my daily life, i give up to easily and put no effort into trying to figure out what is going on. that i will be OK and happy and talking and then something happens and suddenly i wont speak for three weeks,i want to leave sessions early,and i run out. she said she has allowed me to sit in silence thinking that was good for me and what i needed,but then sometime i suddenly say i can't do this anymore and want to leave. when she tries to ask questions during this time i don't answer her,she feels the more she tries to get me to engage the worse i get. she said i know her bag of tricks ,that i know what she has to offer me in the way of help. but that i need to start putting some effort in that she wont and can't keep doing all the work and talking. she said i need to figure out a way that i feel safe communicating to her. she did say that i didn't have to talk. i knew what her bag of tricks were and i can choose whatever i need. i can draw, i can read, i can write ,i can do whatever i need to be able to communicate ,but i need to be trying to communicate. she said it isn't fair that i say nothing when she does or says something i don't like. anyway that was the gist of the session and what she had to say .i know there was a bunch more but this about sums it up

so then she said that she didn't ever think i was coming back so she gave away my spot. that hurt so bad. and if she sees me it will probably be on a Monday. i had Monday sessions for a long time and it was horrible for me .i was finely able to ask her if she could change them for me.and she did. it was huge .it was the first time and only time i ask for something.i was proud of that .and now i don't even have that .i know that i behaved horribly bad and i brought all this on myself .but it hurts so bad. it is all gone. going on Mondays now just represents such a huge failure on my part.i am grateful if she is willing to see me but i am so sad.it is all gone any confidence i had that things could be OK is gone .i feel like if i am not perfect she will say that she wont see me. and she would be right . i understand there have to be consequences to my behaving so badly but i want things to just be the way they were. i want to feel good about my T.i guess by some surprise i did have some sort of trust and faith in my T,i just didn't see it until i destroyed it all .go me right

[granite1]

i don't know why but writing this was hugely hard.i was crying through the whole thing,in fact i have been crying all night and morning over this .especially sence i had to call her thismorning and leave my cell # on her VM. but it seems as soon as i pressed submit a slight calm came over me . this place is awsome.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by granite1

i feel like if i am not perfect she will say that she wont see me.

I think this would be a GREAT thing to tell her. It would really help her learn a lot about you. Maybe write it down on a piece of paper and read it? She will probably ask you why you feel that way & explain that she does not agree.

For the record, I don't think you have to be perfect. You just have to try. I also have trouble talking and sharing. Yesterday I was reading things from my notebook and told T that I started feeling numb and tingly. He immediately switched over to talking about chit chat things so that I could calm down. As long as I am willing to try to tell him what is happening to me, he is right there with me, trying to help me. I just have to have faith that he's going to help and not hurt. It's hard to do, but it does feel good.

I am also sorry about the Monday sessions. Could you ask her if you can be put on a waiting list for another day? She is giving you Mondays because that is now when she has an opening. It is not punishment, just business. I hope you can try to view it that way.

granite, I am so glad you were able to reach out. The Monday thing is not a failure on your part. It just sort of IS, you know?

I remain of the opinion that THIS T may not be right one for you. Her talking about her doing all of the work is a sign of how little she understands you. It may not be entirely her fault, but I certainly think it IS her responsibility -- for instance when she refused to read things you wrote to her (the thing where she handed you back the letter unread was HUGE to me). I respect that you may have a different opinion, but I would really urge you to REQUIRE that she respect you more and respect the ways in which you communicate, which is primarily in writing and through drawing. If she cannot respect you enough to work with that, maybe she can recommend someone for you who can.

And I find it hard to believe that she cannot find a single non-Monday spot to fit you in. But maybe that's just me and my stuff.

[unaluna]

Hey, she thinks she fooled you, but it's the other way around - xmas is on wednesday this year. So unless she takes the whole 2 weeks off, guess who has their monday appointments? Neener neener! Every cloud...

[Anne2.0]

I think it took a huge amount of courage for you to decide to make that phone call, and to go back and see your T. That is the kind of risk-taking in therapy that will reap your rewards.

I can imagine that it was difficult to listen to what she had to say, and I can understand why you might feel that you have "destroyed" things with you and your t or otherwise feel that your spot being given away is some sort of punishment, but it's not. It is just the natural consequences of having your T take what you said at face value, that you were quitting. She didn't try to force her beliefs on you, she didn't go chasing after you trying to convince you that you needed therapy. She respected your choice and once you did contact her, it seems that she was able to work you right in. This is someone who really wants to work with you, and help you. She cares about you.

It seems to me that the conversation she had with you did not validate any of the things that you thought she believed about you, which were several different kinds of flavors that you are somehow some kind of terrible person and she hates you. You see that, right? Everything she said was about your behavior, or your communication with her, that's the only problem she has. And she is clearly willing to meet you in any communication mode that you chose, but you have to actually do (or say) things. Instead, it seems like you get lost in your head and roll into those old neurological tracks which tell you that this person hates you and wants to get rid of you.

But she had her chance, and she didn't get rid of you. She could have easily ignored you when you emailed or called. But she reached out to you, and I think you can reach back.

But I'd like to see you be kinder to yourself. Whatever mistakes you made have made in quitting (and I'm not really sure you made any mistakes, as I think this has ended up with you needing to hear what she said), you didn't ruin or destroy or hurt her or your therapy in any way. It sounds to me like this is the conversation with her you were supposed to have all along, and now you can move forward.

[granite1]

OK i am beyond confused. my T had asked me to call her and leave my cell # on her answering machine.so i did along with a short message. i said that i know this is how it has to be and that i know it will be a while but to please not forget...

OK she just called me (didn't expect that for a few weeks)that was why she wanted my cell so she could call me when i was in Florida. and she said it will probably be Mondays.

now she has set up appointments for next Tuesday at 3 and one on Tuesday when i get back.and that my appointments will be Tuesdays now that way she is in the office on wed if i need to contact her. she said i do not have to talk but i do need try to communicate in some form,draw write ,or whatever i choose but i need to choose .she said we are going to start going in a different direction that she thinks will help me be able to communicate and be less fearfully.she wants me to bring in a blanket to wrap myself in when i feel so terrified that i freeze she said it will help and make me feel a bit safer. she also said i need to let her know somehow if i feel like i am going to freeze up or am scared even if it is just handing her a note.but she needs to know so she can help.

i am weary of the change. who stole my T and i hope the keep her i think i will like this one if it is for real

[stopdog]

I think it is evidence she is also trying to do things differently = she is not just asking you to be different, she is also willing to try other things.

[karebear1]

Don't be weary granite. Just be thankful. ((((granite))))

Granite you and your T need a safe word.... , awesome.... Im getting on with mine too.... maybe its proof that we should always face fear...

[karebear1]

Oh lola..... that's a great idea! You should talk to T about that granite. That way you only have to mutter one word for her to know something is going on.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

Granite you and your T need a safe word.... , awesome.... Im getting on with mine too.... maybe its proof that we should always face fear...

only if she starts to spank me lol
ok stop lets have an ack.....

[granite1]

on a serious note it seems like yesterday was all about scolding and letting me know the way i was behaving was not ok.
and today was all about forgiving .

Originally Posted by granite1

only if she starts to spank me lol
ok stop lets have an ack.....

Can I get your T's number?

[sittingatwatersedge]

Granite, can you try to look at it like, "Monday appointments FOR NOW" ? After all there are 4 other day s in the week; something can open up any time. And we don't have another Monday holiday coming until... lessee... end of May.

I know you say you're hurting (and I don't doubt it!) but I also see a lot of serious thought, and good articulation in yr post, about what you think about all this, and there is a lot of courage & determination showing there.

I think yr T might have said all this earlier; I am rejoicing that you will be able to write, draw, communicate however you want. You have been trying; but she tied your hands in the ways you could communicate and now she's opening that up. That's a LOT, Granite...

I think you have a victory here, dear, not a failure.

Granite
Well done for reaching out and asking for help, that must have been hard, especially asking for a different day. Do you think you will be able to communicate with your t this time? How about writing, you write so well and so articulately and by writing what you feel seems to be therapeutic for you as you cried and got your pain out writing this! I hope you can find a way to communicate because your t sounds awesome and she is really trying to help you.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I think it took a huge amount of courage for you to decide to make that phone call, and to go back and see your T. That is the kind of risk-taking in therapy that will reap your rewards.

I can imagine that it was difficult to listen to what she had to say, and I can understand why you might feel that you have "destroyed" things with you and your t or otherwise feel that your spot being given away is some sort of punishment, but it's not. It is just the natural consequences of having your T take what you said at face value, that you were quitting. She didn't try to force her beliefs on you, she didn't go chasing after you trying to convince you that you needed therapy. She respected your choice and once you did contact her, it seems that she was able to work you right in. This is someone who really wants to work with you, and help you. She cares about you.

It seems to me that the conversation she had with you did not validate any of the things that you thought she believed about you, which were several different kinds of flavors that you are somehow some kind of terrible person and she hates you. You see that, right? Everything she said was about your behavior, or your communication with her, that's the only problem she has. And she is clearly willing to meet you in any communication mode that you chose, but you have to actually do (or say) things. Instead, it seems like you get lost in your head and roll into those old neurological tracks which tell you that this person hates you and wants to get rid of you.

But she had her chance, and she didn't get rid of you. She could have easily ignored you when you emailed or called. But she reached out to you, and I think you can reach back.

But I'd like to see you be kinder to yourself. Whatever mistakes you made have made in quitting (and I'm not really sure you made any mistakes, as I think this has ended up with you needing to hear what she said), you didn't ruin or destroy or hurt her or your therapy in any way. It sounds to me like this is the conversation with her you were supposed to have all along, and now you can move forward.

ditto, 1,000% granite!!! I wasn't sure if you quit, but i am glad to hear you called her, went in and listened!! you got this, i know it

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by granite1

only if she starts to spank me lol
ok stop lets have an ack.....

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

Can I get your T's number?

Good lord. Ack.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by granite1

on a serious note it seems like yesterday was all about scolding and letting me know the way i was behaving was not ok.
and today was all about forgiving .

from an objective point of view; this is what i saw.

yesterday: she was NOT scolding. she immediately got you an appointment to see her. if she did hate you or was mad at you, would she really have called you back? what would be the point of that? she can find other clients, but she WANTED to see you. what she was saying (from my point of view) is that she wants to help. but that it is hard when you can't talk or communicate. no matter how much she may think she knows about what goes on in her mind, the only thing she is probably certain of is that this is fear based. she knows your terrified, but there is only so much one person can do if you can't talk or write or show her your drawings. or maybe you do those things a little bit which is huge, but then you get so scared that you retreat again. what i hear her saying to you is that she really wants to help you; she has offered up to you what she has. talking, drawing, writing. there are other T's out there that work differently, but this T has this "bag of tricks."

and thats ok! i think she doesn't want this to be mroe painful for you than it has been if you are willing to keep trying. what is that sayig--the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. it obviously hasn't been working because you shut down at moments that aren't so obvious to her. I hope you don't read this as ME scolding you. i am not. what i see is a T who wants to help, and is laying it all out there. here is what i have, but you have to meet me halfway. does that seem ok to you, and non-judgemental?

and maybe she somehow got a tuesday appt that opened up. either way she is trying to help. she is working to make you feel as comfortable as possible, and i like that she wants to take things in a different direction. Granite, over the years i have seen your T try different tactics with you. a T that doesn't care or who "hates" someone wouldn't bother trying. why should they when they could get paid either way if someone just comes in and sits? if someone truly doesn't care about an outcome, it probably is easier just to let the silence be. but it seems obvious to me that she does care, that she is trying and that she is willing to be more flexible in how she practices.

i do truly get how hard this is.and how easy it is to misconstrue a therapy relationship. just an example from me just from yesterday. i told my T about a dream i had where it was a normal session where it was frustrating for me because i haev a really hard time talking (normal), and at the end she just looked at me and goes "ok well next time i see you we will talk about wrapping up. i don't see that you have any more problems." i was in shock and devastated. i was like "Wait....ummm...WHAT." that feeling of dread and doom and anxiety stayed with me the rest of the day after i woke up, and i was nervous telling her about it 5 days later.

i told her it was my worst fear coming true. i constantly (and have for the 5 years i've been in therapy) battle with "i really don't have any major problems. am i even unhappy? what do i want? why am in therapy?" those questions. and then my T goes (in my dream) "Well i agree. you don't really have any problems. BUH BYE." I told her what i found so interesting is how much i panicked-in the dream, but also in real life. i struggle so much with therapy and yet with the possibility of it beingtaken away, it scared me, so some part of me wants to be there. she commented that it must be especially unnerving because i count on her to be the reasonable voice: "no, i think you should be here, and you do have issues worth being disussed," and then she colluded with my brain.

i was fascinated. i did count on her to do that? i guess she is right, but i've never thought of her doing that for me; reassuring me its ok. she has explicitly told me that she doesn't think i'm in therapy for no reason--but not often. AND THEN she goes "You know, we do have a relationship." Which completely flustered me and made me very uncofmortable. I flailed my arms about and said "I guess so." Woops. I feel bad like i completely demeaned what she said, but it threw me off guard. Like "what, you care about me?" I don't know. I'm still processing it.

My whole point (sorry i ramble ) is that this tiny little thing about my dream shed light on an aspect of our relationship that i'd never considered. i pretty much think that she finds me interesting enough to see me once a week and is attentive during those 50 minutes, but thats it. and im ok with that. to find out i actually care more, and that she does totally surprised me, and i am not surrounded in fear so much as you. i told my T that even though i've seen her for 5 years, it mostly feels unreal.

i reallly believe that our brains are crazy creatures and can misconstrue so much, and so easily, and it sometimes can take one tiny word or sentence or gesture to completely flip whatever you thought right on its head. i think THAT is what therapy is all about. we ALL constantly get meanings wrong from other people based on our own life experiences. T's are there to help correct that and maybe let you see clearer; you know, taking off those rose-colored glasses.

think how easy it is and how often it happens that people get so upset over email or text or on forums over whatever is written, and when they get a clarification they see how they read it so differently than how it was intended.

[pbutton]

Could you draw a picture or two of what it feels like when you get overwhelmed and can't speak? Then put the pictures in your purse and pull out the matching one when you feel that way?

[velcro003]

ooh good idea!

[granite1]

Originally Posted by velcro003

from an objective point of view; this is what i saw.

yesterday: she was NOT scolding. she immediately got you an appointment to see her. if she did hate you or was mad at you, would she really have called you back? what would be the point of that? she can find other clients, but she WANTED to see you. what she was saying (from my point of view) is that she wants to help. but that it is hard when you can't talk or communicate. no matter how much she may think she knows about what goes on in her mind, the only thing she is probably certain of is that this is fear based. she knows your terrified, but there is only so much one person can do if you can't talk or write or show her your drawings. or maybe you do those things a little bit which is huge, but then you get so scared that you retreat again. what i hear her saying to you is that she really wants to help you; she has offered up to you what she has. talking, drawing, writing. there are other T's out there that work differently, but this T has this "bag of tricks."

and thats ok! i think she doesn't want this to be mroe painful for you than it has been if you are willing to keep trying. what is that sayig--the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. it obviously hasn't been working because you shut down at moments that aren't so obvious to her. I hope you don't read this as ME scolding you. i am not. what i see is a T who wants to help, and is laying it all out there. here is what i have, but you have to meet me halfway. does that seem ok to you, and non-judgemental?

and maybe she somehow got a tuesday appt that opened up. either way she is trying to help. she is working to make you feel as comfortable as possible, and i like that she wants to take things in a different direction. Granite, over the years i have seen your T try different tactics with you. a T that doesn't care or who "hates" someone wouldn't bother trying. why should they when they could get paid either way if someone just comes in and sits? if someone truly doesn't care about an outcome, it probably is easier just to let the silence be. but it seems obvious to me that she does care, that she is trying and that she is willing to be more flexible in how she practices.

i do truly get how hard this is.and how easy it is to misconstrue a therapy relationship. just an example from me just from yesterday. i told my T about a dream i had where it was a normal session where it was frustrating for me because i haev a really hard time talking (normal), and at the end she just looked at me and goes "ok well next time i see you we will talk about wrapping up. i don't see that you have any more problems." i was in shock and devastated. i was like "Wait....ummm...WHAT." that feeling of dread and doom and anxiety stayed with me the rest of the day after i woke up, and i was nervous telling her about it 5 days later.

i told her it was my worst fear coming true. i constantly (and have for the 5 years i've been in therapy) battle with "i really don't have any major problems. am i even unhappy? what do i want? why am in therapy?" those questions. and then my T goes (in my dream) "Well i agree. you don't really have any problems. BUH BYE." I told her what i found so interesting is how much i panicked-in the dream, but also in real life. i struggle so much with therapy and yet with the possibility of it beingtaken away, it scared me, so some part of me wants to be there. she commented that it must be especially unnerving because i count on her to be the reasonable voice: "no, i think you should be here, and you do have issues worth being disussed," and then she colluded with my brain.

i was fascinated. i did count on her to do that? i guess she is right, but i've never thought of her doing that for me; reassuring me its ok. she has explicitly told me that she doesn't think i'm in therapy for no reason--but not often. AND THEN she goes "You know, we do have a relationship." Which completely flustered me and made me very uncofmortable. I flailed my arms about and said "I guess so." Woops. I feel bad like i completely demeaned what she said, but it threw me off guard. Like "what, you care about me?" I don't know. I'm still processing it.

My whole point (sorry i ramble ) is that this tiny little thing about my dream shed light on an aspect of our relationship that i'd never considered. i pretty much think that she finds me interesting enough to see me once a week and is attentive during those 50 minutes, but thats it. and im ok with that. to find out i actually care more, and that she does totally surprised me, and i am not surrounded in fear so much as you. i told my T that even though i've seen her for 5 years, it mostly feels unreal.

i reallly believe that our brains are crazy creatures and can misconstrue so much, and so easily, and it sometimes can take one tiny word or sentence or gesture to completely flip whatever you thought right on its head. i think THAT is what therapy is all about. we ALL constantly get meanings wrong from other people based on our own life experiences. T's are there to help correct that and maybe let you see clearer; you know, taking off those rose-colored glasses.

think how easy it is and how often it happens that people get so upset over email or text or on forums over whatever is written, and when they get a clarification they see how they read it so differently than how it was intended.

i don't think you are scolding at all.and i very much appreciate you saying back to me what you see. in session her tone seemed very scolding to me,rigid,and kind of punishing. maybe that is how i was going to see it no matter what because of how i was behaving it would be expected for anyone to have that reaction. as much as it hurt i was willing to accept whatever she was going to throw at me .she deserved her say.
it was just strange how she had changed everything she said to me when she called Tuesday. it did make me feel like she was really trying to meet me ware i am at at this point and is willing to do whatever it takes but that i need to be willing to accept it and work with what she has to offer

[granite1]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

Granite, can you try to look at it like, "Monday appointments FOR NOW" ? After all there are 4 other day s in the week; something can open up any time. And we don't have another Monday holiday coming until... lessee... end of May.

I know you say you're hurting (and I don't doubt it!) but I also see a lot of serious thought, and good articulation in yr post, about what you think about all this, and there is a lot of courage & determination showing there.

I think yr T might have said all this earlier; I am rejoicing that you will be able to write, draw, communicate however you want. You have been trying; but she tied your hands in the ways you could communicate and now she's opening that up. That's a LOT, Granite...

I think you have a victory here, dear, not a failure.

she actually was able to give me tuesday and it is starting right away. she really is trying right now .i hope i don't mess it up.i will see her tuesday at 3

[granite1]

Originally Posted by button30

Granite
Well done for reaching out and asking for help, that must have been hard, especially asking for a different day. Do you think you will be able to communicate with your t this time? How about writing, you write so well and so articulately and by writing what you feel seems to be therapeutic for you as you cried and got your pain out writing this! I hope you can find a way to communicate because your t sounds awesome and she is really trying to help you.

she has changed her boundary about writing, she said i can hand her a note or letter and she will read it .i don;t think she is going to make me read it anymore. i am going to give a try .she seems to be OK with anything but the one boundary she has is i can not just sit there and do nothing and not respond to her. she said she can't do that .that she has been letting me do this and it has not been good for me and she cant let that happen anymore she said it is just letting me get worse. i am kind of scared that i wont be able to do it

[Paige008]

Originally Posted by granite1

i am kind of scared that i wont be able to do it

Maybe with the way she has been acting - more supportive and all - this won't be as big as a problem as before. You said you used to see her as rigid and unkind, but now that she has shown some care and has lessened the boundaries, maybe it will be easier for you to express yourself more. If you're more comfortable with her, maybe you can be more comfortable with the situation.

Either way, I think you've definitely shown that you WANT to be there and that you WANT to start working on issues and that is definitely progress and it sounds like it is progress she is noticing too!