[radio_flyer]

I was wondering if this is appropriate for a therapist to say to his client... A friend of mine this evening told me she was telling her T that when she was a teen she thought she knew all the answers.. Which is pretty typical of most teens.. Anyway she did get in a lot of trouble as a teen but she realized how foolish she was over the years..... Well her T said back to her that she may have thought she knew all the answers and it turned out she was nothing but a cold turd.. I mean is this a typical response from a T.. She had admitted how wrong she was and he said she was nothing but a cold turd.. I think this is this odd... But I didn't say anything to her because I just didn't... I didn't know what to say..... So I am just asking is this supost to be funny ... or is it a cruel response from a T....???? I could be over reacting, because I took it as him saying she was a piece of ***** as a teen...But I could be wrong.... I want to tell her to find another T.. maybe I should say nothing???? Is this normal for therapy????? Or is that comment supost to be funny???? and I am missing the joke....

[Rapunzel]

How did your friend feel about the comment? Would she refer to herself as a teen that way? A lot of it depends on the client. It sounds like a way of reflecting what she said, but the word choice isn't my favorite. Maybe it's one of those things where you had to have been there.

[radio_flyer]

I am not sure how she felt.. I think she was waiting to see my reaction... and I didn't even blink an eye or say one word.. other than hmmm ... She said she was crying when she was talking about her teen years...so I would have to guess even as an adult looking back at her teen years she didn't see her self as a cold turd...maybe sad she mad so many mistakes.... but I doubt very much as a cold turd....But then I wasn't there.. so i don't know... I think under the circumstances calling her a cold turd is rather cruel... I won't say anything unless she brings it up again.....I don't think many people would look at them selves even reflecting about doing something stupid as a cold turd... but then that is me... I think she should say to him what makes him such hot *****... but then I do tend to put my foot in my mouth.. so I will chill.. lol

[Bethsway]

I m not sure...I think I would have had to hear it..in the way he said it..maybe it was suppose to be lighthearted...but it does depend on how your friend took it to mean...if it upset her or not!

[radio_flyer]

I guess I should just ask her how she felt about it... And if she felt bad then she should take it up with her T... I would assume the T meant it to be light hearted... I will test it on my son.. He is 26 and old enough.. I will tell he was a cold turd when he was a teen.. see how he reacts.. I am soooooo glad I posted this.. Gosh i could have told her the wrong thing..... Guess this is rather new to me.. the expression "cold turd"...I will play with it with my friends.. not the cold turds.. lol... just the expression.... grins

if skr had during therapy said that to me I would have seen no problem with it. In fact SKR and I had this type of therapy relationship where we used terms like being a turd. lots of times I jokingly told her things like so you thought you were a real smart *** like I did huh and shed say something like yup she was like me a real turd.

the responce is just acknowleging to the client that they see things the same way that the client did - that they thought they knew everything and then later got proved how foolish their thinking was.

Some people have that type of relationship where they can banter back and forth like this with each other in the client therapist relationship.

[JustBen]

We can't really know what the therapist intended, of course, and it would be hard to make any kind of inference without a lot more information.

So far, we've identified three possibilities:
-He was trying to reflect.
-He was making a joke.
-He's a jerk and insulted her.

Another possibility comes to mind: paradox. He hears the client putting herself down and criticizing herself for being foolish. He calls her a cold turd and hopes that this will rile up her defenses. She'll see that label as "going too far". She'll point out that she was just a kid, and that lots of teens have the same delusions she had. She might even mention a positive thing or two about herself. It's an attempt to get her looking at herself in a more positive and balanced way.

I used to look at techniques like that as cruel and tricky, and I'm still not comfortable with the deceptive aspect of it, but I've seen it work wonders. If the therapist had said, "C'mon, aren't you being too hard on yourself? Aren't all teens like that?" it might come off as dismissive and minimizing your friend's pain. Paradox helps her come to these conclusions herself and that's usually more meaningful.

Of course, paradox can fail spectacularly, too! Maybe that's what happened here. Or maybe he was just trying to reflect, or tell a dumb joke, or maybe he's just a jerk. I think you're on the right track by asking your friend what she thought about it. Her opinion is the only one that counts ultimately.

[radio_flyer]

Wow... good point Ben...or rather good points.. ty What you said makes a lot of sense to me...Looks like for maybe the first time I did something right by saying nothing.. Takes deep breath..................

Thanks Ben, Rapunzel, Bethsway and myself ...This goes to prove it is sometimes good to ask other folks their opinions... Should she bring it up again I will now have something other than neg things to say to her and will suggest she talk it over with her T....I doubt his intent was to hurt her....I guess saying someone was a "cold turd" was rather new to me.... and it caught me off guard...Maybe I was in a "protective" mode and wanted to protect her... Foolish of me, because i could have stirred up things.....I am sooo glad I asked and and also soo very glad I didn't say a anything to her........Very good advice indeed....

Thanks again and hugggggggs

[Hopefull]

Cold turd doesn't sound very nice to me.
But, I have seen some people insult each other left and right as some form of banter. As for T, the person could talk to the T about it.
I once told my T that she offended me. She said something about they should put anti-depressants in the water. Since I have a preference for talk therapy and distrust most drugs, this offended me. It also excluded me from being able to talk with her about my pros and cons list on whether to see a psychiatrist. But, I don't think she was trying to hurt me or offend me. She just was frustrated with this rather unhappy woman who clammed up at the mere mention of anti-depressants. So, she ended up frustrating me with her rather overly anti-depressants are as safe as aspirin remark. But, it's okey to tell a T that he/she blew it that time. They do that at times. I know mine does at times. But, she cares about me and sometimes nails the bullseye.

[Sarah116]

No toilet talk! You are past the %#@&#! stage!

please don't feel bad when I first moved to this state and city 12 years ago the language her was just so new to me and my son for instance the first night here oon the way home from the airport she asked me and my child if we were hungry we could stop somewhere for a pop and so on. well my son started crying... His aunt would say to her kids- do you want a pop and the disrespectful child would say no and the aunt would say to her child - then knock it off and sometimes that warning/threat was not enought and the child would recieve a spank on the butt. So my child thought - pop - out here was a spank and not a soda. There was just so many new phrases and meaning that for the first three months my son and I just kind of agreed no matter what. LOL luckily my friend knew me well enough to rephrase in my other state language and phrasing on important issues so I knew what was going on in those situations.

Foolish of you no. the only way we know what things are is if we ask right. keep asking those questions when you don't undersand.

[SeptemberMorn]

I don't think it's in the least funny! If it was me, I would have gotten up and left! SHEEEEEESH!!

But then, we don't know the context of the conversation... It still doesn't wound very nice.

[radio_flyer]

Your comment made me smile... I too thought it was rather juvenile of him to make such a comment...Considering my friend is in her 40's I do believe she expected more from him...maybe he is vocabulary challenged....

[radio_flyer]

You know September, I felt the same way when my friend told me what the T said. I would expect much more from a professional than a comment of "cold turd"...

She has not told me how she feels about it.. But I sense she is disappointed in his comment...When I talk to her again I will suggest she tell her T how she feels..But I am thinking he will brush it off that she is over reacting... I have no idea what his "therapy" method is... I just don't see anything productive in his comment... nor do I think it is funny... But then I don't do therapy.. I did my tour of duty and have found much more valuable help online... I guess it is up to her to either bring it up or say nothing...

[radio_flyer]

The reason I asked about this is because I didn't know if this is "good" therapy . I never experienced IMHO "good" therapy and I didn't want to tell my friend the wrong thing.. This one comment doesn't mean she is in "bad" therapy or the T is a jerk.. although it could be a red flag.. only time will tell I guess..

Maybe my ideas on "good" therapy are wrong.. I prefer problem solving and learning new coping skills.. skills that were not learned when young, and what was learned is not working, so it is time to focus on new life/coping skills. Problem solving.. I don't get a lot out of blaming so and so for doing this or that.. boo hoo... I say it happened, help me to learn to deal with what happened and show me new skills so I can move forward and not be stuck....Help me to grow and move forward.. Not keep me a victim... But I may have therapy all wrong... So this is why I asked.. I needed to hear various opinions to see if how my opinion fit in with others...

I think the only thing I can say to her that can be helpful is suggest she talk to her T.......and go from there... I am not even sure I will mention how I felt.. It is not important how I feel... What is most important is how she feels...

[Rapunzel]

Your ideas about what good therapy is sound right on to me. Depending on the theory used, sometimes it is also important to gain an understanding of what happened, and it sounds like that was what your friend's T was trying to accomplish.

Whether or not his comment was appropriate depends on the client and the setting, and whether or not it helped her with anything.

[radio_flyer]

I don't see how saying a person was a "cold turd" is helping her understand her problem... She is an adult... She knows she was wrong when a teen..How she explained to me was was she was saying she knows she made mistakes when a teen... She didn't need her nose rubbed in it by saying she was a cold turd.....I mean come on.... is kind of like a slap in the face.. instead of maybe saying yes, teens do think they know it all but it is part of growing up... and we all make mistakes...

I think talking about mistakes one become vulnerable.. and when one is vulnerable one doesn't need stupid comments like yes you were nothing but a cold turd.... Maybe you can explain to me how saying someone is a "cold turd" when they made mistakes is helping the client understand.. ???My friend is not stupid... .......Maybe the point I am not getting..

I think all of this is bringing up my issues with therapy... which I can say isn't good.....I do think I will suggest she needs to talk about her sessions with someone else... someone who may have a more positive look at therapy in general...because I am the wrong person to tell this stuff to......

I don't want to argue.... everyone has their point of view...k i appreciate your opinion..

maybe I am looking at the so called innocent expression of "cold turd" wrong... what i see is ok lets get a lil frank.. a turd is waste... a cold turd is to be disposed...actually a hot turd is to be disposed of too.. lol . So saying a person is a cold turd is saying you are nothing more than human waste...

.. if a person is going to pay a professional money I should think he could come up with something better than cold turd..... maybe it is just me....

I guess if someone benefits from a T saying they were nothing but a cold turd, so be it...or good for them ... or oo cool .. ty ty mr T for sheding the light on my issues... yes a cold turd... hmmmm tytyt......

[Sarah116]

Uh Oh I did not know that was bad my post I was just referring to Freud sorry KD, Doc John Jan or whomever.

[PasDeDeux]

I am sorry but there is no reason for a therapist to use this kind of terminology. It has no useful application. It is emotionally abusive. No less than calling her a ***** or cretin. Anyone who thinks this usage of these words in a therapeutic situation is OK needs to go back to class or spend more time on the couch themself.

[JustAPixie]

What Ben said is very insightful, but I don't think we are supposed evaluate every little thing. Our T's should be sensitive enough not to say anything that might have more than one meaning. A lot of us struggle with low self esteem and a T should know this and therefore if he makes a joke he must make it clear. I would be offended if my T said that to me!

[DaveyJones]

The saying goes something like "You thought you were hot ____, but you were just a cold turd".

A valid point point perhaps, but a pretty dumb thing for a "highly trained professional" to use in a therapeutic situation. IMHO.

DJ

[Perna]

I was thinking the same thing DJ, hot "stuff," what's the "stuff" :-)

Not all conversations in therapy are going to be enlightening and not all expressions, words, metaphors, whatever are going to hit a target. If I were your girlfriend, I'd just chalk it up to his meaning something and my not getting it. What really gets exciting is to call T's on stuff you don't get or don't like and talk abou that. Usually T's are looking for sparks/feelings, reactions, things that matter to one so there's something alive to talk about. It's too late now to guess what might have been meant, the moment is passed but if one doesn't know what is meant then guessing instead of checking it out with the speaker is not a good way to find out. No one other than the T can say what he meant and why he said it.