How does a client's suicide affect their T?

Admittedly, I got a little bit unnecessarily defensive and angry. Sorry about that Lola.

I know that I am not being my own best friend in this situation and I know this is a problem of learned helplessness. I don't know how to do anything for myself because my mom has to control EVERY aspect of the house. I guess it was nice when I was younger and had no chores, but when I moved out, I didn't even know how to run a load of laundry or prepare a basic meal for myself. I would try to help clean the house, I'd work hard and show it to her. She'd get angry, tell me I did it wrong, and clean over it. I'm not convinced in my own abilities to unclog a stuck toilet, how on earth can I handle my own finances? I don't know how to do anything when it comes to handling money. I know how to cash a check and that is about it. Thinking about that is extremely scary and overwhelming to me.

Sorry for being snappy about it. I was trying to protect myself from the fear I get when I think about trying to financially independent. I know that I'm trying to justify my fear into reasons why I can't do it yet.

I also realize now that I slept on it that I read way more into Lola's post than she actually said. She said something like "5 days and 13 pages of affirmation and you still are thinking of suicide?" For some reason, I interpreted that more along the lines of "you're a stubborn, unwilling to change attention ***** that is wasting everyone's time. If you are really thinking about suicide (which I doubt) then you would have already done it before complaining about your life. If you're gonna do it, quit whining and just do it". I know that is a really really REALLY weird and twisted way to interpret that because it wasn't at all what you were saying. But that's partially why I got so defensive. Sorry.

((( Growlithing )))

I, too, have struggled with learned helplessness - and still do, to a certain degree. It's quite eye-opening when we're able to become aware of it and see how much damage was caused. Unlearning old behaviors and learning new behaviors are scary. - but it's also empowering.

One thing that I did to help empower me is to make a list of things that I didn't know how to do...and then I would choose one to tackle. The feeling you get from taking control of your own life can be amazing (and scary, strangely enough).

Unfortunately, many (including myself) tend to fall back into the trap of re-running old tapes that tell us that we can't do it, or we convince ourselves that there's just no way. Challenging those thoughts are - well - challenging!

The first step is becoming self-aware....what you do with it is the next.

I think it's important to recognize that not all choices are free choices. The dynamic may appear to be one based on financial concerns, and Growlithing may even primarily see it in that light, but abusive relationships are rarely so simple or straightforward. And leaving them behind isn't just a matter of making what, to those outside the relationship, may seem like the rational choice.

Hang in there, Growlithing.

My son just started college and the school where he goes has a seminar in how to handle money and budget, etc. Virtually all people start school with no idea how to handle money. You are not alone in that, and every one of us has had to figure that out. I am almost positive that your school has a similar service to assist you in figuring out your money. I walked into my school's financial aid office and just said, "Please help me figure out my aid and loans because I'm doing this all on my own." The people there were incredibly helpful.

Omg I am 61 and had my sunday last week completely thrown for a loop by a clogged toilet. But there's the internet now - we dont need parents anymore. I felt pretty good by the end of the day when I had handled it. I know you were just throwing it out there as a stupid for instance, but it crystallizes for me where you're coming from.

I think lola is sensitive to it because she hasnt resolved these issues completely for herself. Otherwise why would it bother her or me or anybody else who gets freaked out a little by this thread? A few years ago, my mother was yelling at me, why do you want to go spend x dollars on rent? I answered," I don't want to have to spend x dollars on rent. I'd rather live with you. But I can't take your criticizing me anymore." I was having shortness of breath and heart palpitations. I got it checked out, it's anxiety.

I also thought I needed my parents and my parents' money to live. My ts thru the years tried to tell me different. It's very scary to break away. But it's your parents' fear, not even your own. That's why it's so hard to deal with, so hard to beat down, to get rid of, to reason away. You DO something, like fix your own toilet, and you get stronger! That fear is gone, AND you gain power. That's why ts tell you ie me to just do something, anything - it will make a difference in how you feel. Because it's building YOU up, not arguing with THEM in your head (or IRL) - THEY always win.

My Univ even had a service of extending short term small loans--I think then the limit was $250--to students. Repaying the loan also let students begin to build a credit history.

ETA: Hankster I want to "thank" your post but there's no thanks button!

I can try making a list. That kinda aligns well with the way I confront the problems in my life that I'm not afraid to confront. The problem is that I feel if I were to make a list where the things on it are so simple and basic that most 12 years can do it or so scary and foreign such as balancing a check book or even trying to figure what the hell that even means, I feel like I'd end up sitting in the bathroom, hurting myself as punishment for being so stupid. I don't want to try making a list without help of my T to help handle that reaction.

Bingo, sorry....they are my issues.

You are sticking to what seems to you to be best for you, even though others might do it differently.

Sorry and mine. I cant even answer your "I look like my mother post" - waaaaay too right on the exact same nose as her!!!

growlithing: I suspect that you have experience with people bringing up their own unresolved issues in the form of negative comments on you.

You are handling the situation here effectively.

growlithing: Good thing Bill is here to save you from me.

It's moments like this when I am glad that I grew up with enough insight to have figured out what projection was by the time I was 12- even though I didn't have the word for it until I took an extremely basic high school psych class. My mom doesn't do anything but project.

I tried mentioning that some people are really starting to rub up against a very serious trigger for me by making me feel weak but I think that was just kinda lost. But that's okay because I know better than to let someone's projections actually make me do anything to myself.

I don't need anyone to save me from anyone. I can fight my own battles. You're just not worth fighting against because for some reason you take more pleasure in trying to confront me and get a rise out of me than actually helping me figure out how to actually do what you are telling me to do. I make it a habit to avoid ad homonym attacks with other psych patients so why would I fight with you? .

This thread perfectly illustrates for me the dichotomy between forms of "helping." There are those who are going, 'just keep doing what you're doing! You're doing great! Rah RAH RAH!' And then are those doing the: 'no no NO! You are NOT trapped. You are NOT helpless! Try this, or this or this.' The OP gets mad and lashes out, but then has the integrity and courage to admit that it's because she knows that the second set of folks are telling her the truth but she's afraid to do what needs to be done. So the second folks point out more solutions to her and give examples of having taken the actions that need to be taken to get free to try to help her see it's doable. Then the first folks blame the second folks for trying to point out solutions and try to dismiss their input as only being about their own issues. Then the first folks keep encouraging the OP in her original course of conduct.

Honest to god, I don't think we're doing growlithing any favors by being rah rah rah people who encourage her to stay trapped by her fears. Whether Lola or Hank are reacting the way they are because of their own issues or not, the fact remains that they are offering solid advice and a what appears to me to be a much needed kick in the behind to just go ahead and start doing what needs to be done to get free and emotionally healthy. These posts ARE supportive, but maybe not in a way that the first set of folks recognizes as supportive.

Agreed and the feeling is mutal, you are a bundle of contradiction and it does push my buttons. I take no pleasure in any of our interactions and I hardly call it attacking. I prefer to see it as pointing out the Giant White Elephant in the room. You are unwilling to take any advice anyone has given you , so helping you appears to be impossible. I take exception to being referred to as a psych patient, though I do find it mildly amusing. It's amazing to me that you can read and play music , present yourself articulately and seem to be rather inteligent but can't imagine how to balance a checkbook. I do believe that some of my issues are spilling onto you and I apologize for that. However, I am not the enemy. You do a good job of twarting your own growth without me, I'm just pointing it out instead of holding your hand with a "there, there". Someday you may actually see that I was really trying to help you take ownership of you by challenging your helpless attitude or maybe you wont.

I think the second group of people are well intentioned but way too aggressive and not giving me enough credit. I got my driver's license yesterday. I fought against my parents, called a driving school, got private lessons, and got my stupid license. I bought train tickets to NY for Thanksgiving. I made it clear that I wasn't coming back until after Christmas. I kept calling friends to get me out of the house until someone came and got me. I've been practicing and learning audition material for Summer 2014 programs that are longer and more intense. I am not just sitting on my *** and complaining about my life.

It's also not like I am 40 years old. I turned 20 not even two months ago. Not even 3 years ago, I was a kid in everyone's eyes and now I suddenly have to be an adult that makes good decisions for herself and knows how to file taxes. I'm not in a situation where not being financially independent is abnormal at all. My situation is abnormal and is causing me to do things that many people my age don't have to. A "well needed kick in the behind" isn't what I need when I am so triggered and struggling everyday that just breathing is difficult.

I don't know what is an isn't helping me in the long run. I'm 20 years old. Most people my age are partying and drunk all of the time anyway. But I do know that fighting needlessly on my thread and getting it closed wouldn't help me either.

Effective therapy involves both the recognition of strengths and help in identifying and making changes. It is a disservice to those who recognize strengths, though, to suggest they think no changes are needed. Their approach involves encouragement of change through identification of strengths and encouragement of self-actualization. This does not preclude discussion of specific suggestions.

As purported summaries of viewpoints being expressed here, these statements are quite inaccurate.

What I see in this thread is that the OP has taken a lot of the advice given to heart, just not all of it. And it is their choice to determine what is useful for them at this particular time, and not. In a few weeks' time things will be different, perhaps.

ok....listen , it's your thread and Ill stay away good luck in school.

OP - I don't find that every 20 year old I come into contact with is partying or drunk all the time. Nor even the legal ones who are 21. And most of the students where I teach (according to the statistics collected by the admissions office for undergraduates) are on scholarships and financial aid and working (working if past their freshman year). I add this because I think the perception of what everyone else is doing may be slightly skewed.

My question to you is what do you want people here to do for you? This is a real question and not a critical one - do you just want a place to vent and have people say they hear you, do you want suggestions on how to help yourself, do you want bigger picture reminders, do you want stories of hope about others who made hard choices at your age and like the ones you could make and survived to relate them, etc.?

I don't see you as the enemy. In many ways, what you are saying is completely right. I am not helping myself by refusing to accept help. It isn't a giant white elephant in the room because if you read my previous posts, you can clearly see that I know that and feel bad about that. I also feel like helping me is impossible. You aren't saying anything revolutionary. I think there is no one on this thread that would disagree with you when you say that those are real issues that I have to work through.

I have never written a check. I have never had a checkbook and I don't even know what they are supposed to do. I have had to read and articulate my thoughts before. I'm struggling to see how that is related.

Thwarting my growth. Again, I am doing what I can in the current situation. I am not looking for long term solutions here. I just want people to talk to because I feel like nothing in life is worth anything when I am alone.

Would it help if someone here explained about checks/checkbooks?

If you know it, instead of feeling bad about it, you can actually own it and attempt to change it and then feel GOOD about it, therefore making it possible to be helped and possible to help yourself.

I am sure you haven't written a check , but to say "I don't even know what they are supposed to do." , come on

I think I see in you my eldest child, that is why this is so bothersome to me. I believe you see your mother in me, with my aggressive ways. So perhaps we are at an impasse. But for what it's worth and regardless of what anyone else may say about me and the things I have posted on your thread, know this. I have never posted anything to intentionally hurt you. My intentions have always been to help you and I do wish the best for you.

I do own it and I do attempt to change it. I also have a right to throw out advice that I don't feel ready to take.

I know what a check does. People have written me checks. I don't know what a checkbook does.

I have a difficult time identifying "mother-like" behavior. My mom did things to me that I never thought of as "mother-like" and I instead identified as "assault". But thank you for the clarification.