[Raging Quiet]

Hi All.

I'm feeling weird about something.. Last week I was lying down on the coach and I was talking to T about how my house never feels clean, no matter how hard I work to clean it.

Well, as I was leaving, T said she had a spare vaccum that I could have and gave it to me as I left. I said no to her at first, but she joked I'd rejected it and that it was 'no skin off her nose'.

At first I was really happy because my last vaccum stopped working and dustpan and brushing it before I could get another vaccum was bringing out my allergies and really hard work - however my husband was angry and annoyed that she had crossed boundaries.

I feel like I should get her something to say thank you - it was still brand new. I also have started feeling something else, sort of upset that I can understand what my husband is saying and sometimes therapy doesn't feel like therapy.

I've re-arranged my session for another time, as I need to think through some things.

I just feel really mixed.. I've used the vacuum to, so I can't return it. I feel special, but also sad that a boundary has been crossed but I also feel like I owe her.

Has this ever happened to you? x

[anilam]

20£? that's really cheap...
Anyway, I don't think a boundary have necessarily been crossed. Can't you just see it as a nice gesture- like it was intended to be (I think).

[Syra]

It sounds like it was just a nice gesture, but a nice gesture that makes you feel weird? obligated? confused?. Can you talk wtih her about that?

[Victoria'smom]

You could always look at it like a loan until you can afford one of your own if that makes you feel better.

[WePow]

You could accept it as a "Pay it Forward" gift. Sometime in the future you can gift someone a new item as payment for this gift. And let your T know if that is what you choose.

[H3rmit]

It hasn't happened to me, but I have two vacuum cleaners because I got one for free, so I wouldn't feel it was a big gift if I gave it to someone who could use it. And 20 pounds is not much for a therapist, really. Don't assume its dollar value. I could accept the kindness. Now if it was every week or two, that would be weird.

[ThisWayOut]

My old t have me a huge gift before I moved. She knew we were struggling and needed help to make the move. She called it a late wedding present (a month after I got married), and told me not to have my dad help us move (he's a huge trigger for me). She had given me the card at my last session, but told me not to open it until I left. I cried when I saw it. I called her and thanked her. She said to do something similar to the pay it forward idea...
Maybe you can talk to her about it making you feel weird?

[unaluna]

I talked about wanting a Magic Bullet - a smoothie maker / juicer - and t said he had an extra one. I think he had offered it to me before, but I couldn't accept it. This time I did. So yes, other people have been through this. It can be kind of a breakthrough - it's a practical thing, but there's a lot of symbolism in accepting something from someone. It involves trust and vulnerability and admitting needs and desires and sharing those with another person and all kinds of icky stuff that I didnt think of til just now!! And honestly could either of our appliances have been more Freudian??

[Asiablue]

Hankster but also so true

[blur]

Originally Posted by Rect0pathic

I also feel like I owe her.

yeah, this is why it isn't a good thing for your T to cross your boundaries like this. it can make you feel beholden to her. i'd return the vacuum to her and tell her it was nice of her to offer it but it doesn't feel right. you can always use your husband as an excuse saying he wasn't comfortable with you receiving it. it doesn't matter that you've used the vacuum.

i've never had a T give me a large gift but i did have a T who i was in a dual relationship with. she was my T and then was also teaching an artist's way class. she only had a few students and when everyone started dropping out for various reasons she tried to give me a total guilt trip when i told her i'd need to drop too. she tried to say she'd started the class for me. it was so inappropriate of her to say & do that. i was like wtf? i never asked her to do the class for me. she listed on her website that she taught those classes. i dropped therapy with her not longer after that due to some other reasons.

edit to add: i didn't see the part about it costing 20 pounds/$31 so i didn't realize it was actually a small purchase. can you really buy a brand new vacuum for that little though? i don't know. since you have posted other things questioning your T's boundaries, one that made me super concerned for you, i think i'm going to stick with my initial thought that it is best returned. if this were a one-time thing and your T otherwise had great boundaries then it probably wouldn't concern me. i know you are really attached to your T but i am not sure how healthy she is for you.

[content30]

So...that's $31.40 US. I wouldn't feel weird about that as a one-off thing. That's not too much. If it was a Dyson, then, yeah, that'd be too much!

Like others said, I'd accept it as a pay-it-forward when you can kind of thing. If T starts giving you stuff all the time, then I'd worry.

[Raging Quiet]

Thanks for all your replies.

£20 is a lot to me; I grew up on free school meals as my dad was ill and my mum a homemaker. My parents have never spent that on me all on one go! I have to budget strictly as h spends money like water and I don't deal well with accepting gifts.

Reflecting back, I suppose I was talking about CSA and myself, not my house being clean - years ago when I started we would have explored this, but she started into a story about herself as soon as I had finished. She doesn't do therapy with me anymore, we talk more equally.

I want to leave, but I feel I have to stay or she will get lonely as she's semi retired.

I feel so stressed and depressed about my infertility, but my t really doesn't understand this and believes we bring these issues on to ourselves in some way. I'm a Christian girl, volunteer and spend my wage to charities, I don't know what I've done to deserve this.

[anilam]

Oh that would be weird than:
A- its like she's not listening- you feel your house is dirty? Well lets take it as a truth (like a friend would not like a T should- I.e. its her never being clean- so common in CSA survivors...)and because you're poor lets give you a vacuum cleaner.
B you don't need to feel more in debt to her- you don't need to go for her sake. Its NOT therapy if you do.

I'd return it. Thank her, say I don't need it, don't want to take it. Say why I was talking about my "dirty" house and try to explore why I feel like I can't leave her even though I really want to.

I think Anilam makes some very good points here.
Saying your house is dirty means so much more than that. There is a wealth of hidden meanings behind this just waiting to be explored by you and t.
It has a lot to do with your past and your feelings about you and not about your house. It could be a control thing too Recto.
I am very sorry your t doesn't listen sometimes, it is so painful to hear. I hear you talking about wanting a baby so much
You and t both talk and are more like friends- this isn't therapy anymore.
For your own sake I would consider a new t and maybe see what this t says if you tell her it feels more like friends now.
You deserve to be heard and understood recto.
Ps, I think it was a kind gesture from your t, her intentions were good and I don't think she was being condescending or trying to solve anything, just being kind.

[Bill3]

She doesn't do therapy with me anymore, we talk more equally.

I want to leave, but I feel I have to stay or she will get lonely as she's semi retired.

I'm really sorry that T is no longer meeting your need for a therapist.

It is thoughtful of you to consider her potential loneliness. But what about your need for therapy? Is it hard for you to see your needs as being just as important than as those of others?

If you need therapy, I would suggest that you find a true therapist.

If she becomes lonely through the loss of a client, she can address that issue. It does not have to be your responsibility. Do you tend to make things your responsibility more than maybe you really should?

Here is a thought experiment. One idea would be to go visit her once in a while as a friend (without paying). If you had a different T, would you want to do that?

If yes: then you can get therapy and still help her out.

If no: well then perhaps you should not deny yourself therapy for her sake.

[Bill3]

but my t really doesn't understand this and believes we bring these issues on to ourselves in some way. I'm a Christian girl, volunteer and spend my wage to charities, I don't know what I've done to deserve this.

You do not deserve infertility.

I am sorry that T does not understand you and seems to blame you for infertility. You already have a great deal of stress and pain. You need support and understanding from a T, not additional causes of feeling bad.

This is another indication that it is time for a different T--for a T who understands and supports you, rather than misunderstands, and blames you for, the central stressor of your life.

[Favorite Jeans]

Oh wow. That's really interesting insight into the clean house issue Recto. I have a couple of thoughts...

1) just as the desire for a "clean house" is kind of a metaphor for an end to shame, can the vacuum from your T represent that kind of cleaning/healing? Can it be her way of caring for you, providing the tools to feel free make the shame vanish? (This is a little more out there than I usually am... But to me if the dirt is a metaphor, so too can the vacuum be!)

2) The "bringing infertility on ourselves" thing makes me want to scream. As though the pain of it wasn't enough without having to blame yourself too. BUT I think what most people mean by that isn't that you're being punished by god or the universe for not being a good person but that it represents a kind of ambivalence about having children or that you've waited too long before trying. To be clear, I think that's absolute crap. I just bring it up because I imagine its very painful to believe that your T thinks you deserve infertility for not being good.

3) Have you talked to your T about feeling like she's not acting like your therapist anymore? I think that's at least worth a try. But if it doesn't change things I agree that you need therapy and shouldn't have to worry about her loneliness. (I thought stopping by for the occasional visit was a nice idea.)

Your t is obviously a believer in glassers theory that we bring all illnesses on ourselves, not consciously but subconsciously. Our lifestyles reflect our health.
I believe some of this is true, if we under a lot of stress it has to affect our body somehow or if we are depressed all these hidden emotions we have tucked away inside come out in the form of illness.
It is a harsh theory and not very kind way if looking at things but it is one that makes sense.
As for your house being dirty, do you feel the same about your body?
I ask because a lot if CSA survivors, myself included often feel dirty inside because of the shame associated with our past. I have two showers a day and it's not enough. I wonder is this cleaning of your house a way of trying to feel in control of the feelings! Correct me if I am wrong recto and of course only you know what is happening with you and only you can decide what is best x

[precious things]

Originally Posted by hankster

I talked about wanting a Magic Bullet - a smoothie maker / juicer - and t said he had an extra one. I think he had offered it to me before, but I couldn't accept it. This time I did. So yes, other people have been through this. It can be kind of a breakthrough - it's a practical thing, but there's a lot of symbolism in accepting something from someone. It involves trust and vulnerability and admitting needs and desires and sharing those with another person and all kinds of icky stuff that I didnt think of til just now!! And honestly could either of our appliances have been more Freudian??

I like the way your brain works hankster!

[unaluna]

I just made my first smoothie in t's magic bullet - oj, vanilla protein powder, and a mini english cucumber. It was pretty yummy! T will be so pleased. I'll tell him next time I see him. Thanks, recto, you got me to finally make my move on this!

["Tilly may"]

I wouldnt feel weird about it. I would be honoured that she would consider me enough to give me a gift. and heck, like she said, she has two so no big deal. I dont think she crossed any boundaries. She is just being considerate and generous. We all have stuff that we dont need and could probably be used by our friends or colleagues if we just knew that they needed them.

[Arha]

Some interesting points have been made, but I'd like to add a couple:

If I had two vacuum cleaners, one would just be taking up space, and really annoy me and I would be glad to be rid of it, especially if I knew it was being used and appreciated.

When your T says, regarding infertility, "we bring these issues on to ourselves in some way",
she may be meaning something completely different to what has been interpreted here.
It may mean that the infertility is not the issue we bring onto ourselves, but the desire for a child is. The desire for a child is often classed as innate and biological, but is driven by psychological influences, primarily social. It is something that is accepted as a biological need, but really needs to be considered in the same way that many of our other desires are, and dealt with through therapy, while the infertility is addressed through medical processes.

[Lmats]

My T gave me a stats book worth about $150 while I was taking online courses because she knew I was struggling with them. It was right off her shelf and she said that she had no use for it anymore. I felt kind of bad at first, almost like I was whining so much that she gave me the book to make me shut up? Crazy irrational thoughts, but you know, it happens.

I guess just look at it in that sense that she had two vacuums an obviously she only really needed one. I'm sure she'd do the same to a close friend who needed a vacuum too, maybe even a total stranger. I'm sure the little spark of happiness that she probably saw from you was enough for her, so you don't owe her anything.