[granite1]

I have read some articles about the scapegoat child.my T used the term scapegoat also in my session yesterday . I don't know what to think about my session yesterday .I think that boot camp T was present . It seemed so cold, hard, uncaring, and very painful. a few things she said keep haunting me. that I need to stop being my families scapegoat and that I am doing my son harm by allowing him to see me being treated as such by my family. I was feeling so horrible and hearing this seem to just put me over the edge .I couldn't understand what she wanted from me. I couldn't understand her at all. it seemed to me that she was acting the same as my farther . I felt so much anger from her. I have no idea if it was her or if it was all just manufactured in my head. I could no longer speak .I felt any words from me were only going to back me up against the wall. send me into a deeper mess then I was already in.

my T wants me to stand up to my farther . she said I need to stop absorbing all his bull s h I t like a sponge. that it is poison to me. that I need to just tell him to shut up. I felt so ashamed for not being able to do this. it felt like she was validating everything I know about myself. I so want her to show me how not to be the way she said I am. but I have no idea how . this has always been my roll in this family from the moment I was born. heck the mother got pregnant with me in hopes that it would make things better between my farther and her. when that backfired she tried to get an abortion. this has been my roll. it is what I know. it is second nature I do it well. I have always been expendable just so long as the desired outcome is possible. it is just how it is. I just don't know how to be any other way when it comes to my family and people I know.

being this way has its issues and I know this . people tend to hate me. think I am weak ,useless, not worth the time of day, easily walked over. or the opposite affect. they get angry , end up wanting to shake the crap out of me. it is just how it is .I understand this and I think this is how my T was reacting yesterday. it was scary and hurtful. but I am at least allowing her to see me for who I truly am. I would change my behavior if I had any idea how to and still have some sense of who I am. but I think some of her last words to me were you need to figure it out. not we need to or anything like that . I feel so alone and like a failure . drowning in self pity. got I even want to shake the crap out of myself.

Sounds like your T is trying to get you to really make a decision about whether you want to keep living this way, feeling like the scapegoat in the family or whether you are ready and willing to make some hard decisions and difficult changes that should empower you and improve your sense of self-worth and value. You are going to have to really commit to real change before she can help you see the way clearly, and I wonder if she's really feeling that level of motivation from you.

Perhaps those last few sentences are what you need to share with her. If you are ready, say "I am miserable living my life feeling the way I am feeling, and I am ready to fight my way through this. I just don't know where to begin. Can you help me find my way?"

Ah, Granite. I have to admit, I would love love LOVE to see you tell your father to keep his comments to himself and to go to hell. Learning to draw boundaries is so hard and so painful, and so difficult. You draw the boundary and the other person pushes and pushes and PUSHES to try to get you change back. So, you do need help learning, first, how to change your behavior, and second, how to deal with the backlash that is virtually inevitable. Can you say that directly to your T? Please help me learn to change, and help me with what to do with the backlash.

My first T and I actually discussed how when my mother did X, I should say Y. When she screamed and tantrumed, I should do A, B, C, or possibly D. I will say that when I drew boundaries with my mother and held to them, it resulted in MANY screaming fights. My H blamed ME for causing conflict because I would not let her trample my boundaries. However, after a period of really struggling, my mother settled down and held to good boundaries for over ten years. It was not until my younger sister moved back in that things started to return to where they were. Trying to hold the boundaries didn't work as well then, because my mother had 'supporters' living with her all the time, reassuring her it was my fault. When it was just her and my father, it was much easier.

Anyway. Not sure how helpful is it to hear about my stuff, but I wanted you to know you are not alone. You are not somehow weak or defective for not knowing how to do this. It is a learned skill, and your T should be helping you learn it.

[granite1]

omg I just realized something as I was writing in my journal. at the beginning of the session she asked me if my week was so horrible because she was away. I said that it probably would have been better if she had been around. I bet she was completely horrified by that . that I was becoming to attached and she needed to back off. I bet this is why boot camp T appeared .instead of compassionate T . stupid me I know better .I will tell her next time I see her that I realized that that was a mistake and that it had nothing at all to do with her being gone at all . that that was something I had just thought of when she asked me that (the truth).I know the damage is already done but maybe then she will not be so scared of me or repulsed. I really can just be a S T U P I D head at times. I was so upset I was not thinking .

Granite... what you originally told her was honest. It would have been better if she was around because you could have possible called her. You are not stupid...

Have you ever considered that maybe "boot camp T" appears when she is angry at your family for how they treat you and not at you?

Once I told something to xT and he sounded very serious and angry and I started to have that "I'm a five year old again hiding under my bed" feeling that I get until he sort of explained again how angry he was at the person who did that to me...not angry at me...

just thoughts...

Originally Posted by granite1

I bet she was completely horrified by that . that I was becoming to attached and she needed to back off.

Granite, I strongly believe you are misinterpreting this to match the messages you get from your family that you are not worthy of being treated with care. Don't believe the lies your family taught you. Your T cares and is completely furious with your family -- not you. Your are just assuming she's mad at you because you assume everyone is mad at you due to your history.

T's aren't made of teflon. They hear our stories and feel very strong emotions about what people have done to us, what we've been through. She may have been a bit overcome with her own feelings about your family's mistreatment of you and let that come through in her speech and behavior in your session. It happens. But that was about her and her feelings of anger about them, AND her feelings of caring and concern for you. It WASN'T against you in any way.

Granite, my T has gotten very angry during our sessions sometimes. He and I are much closer than you and your T, and I STILL get frightened when he's angry. Every time, and I mean EVERY time, it has been because of things that my family has done. I really doubt your T turned into boot camp T because she was horrified. She turned into boot camp T because she wants so desperately for you to see your own worth and stand up for yourself. At least, that's my opinion.

Big hugs. Please know that you are wonderful and valuable and not horrifying.

[CantExplain]

((Granite))

You're the family scapegoat all right. It won't be easy to break out of that. They will resist. A dysfunctional family needs a scapegoat - otherwise they'd have to take responsibility for their own failings.

[WikidPissah]

(((chickie)))

Can I tell your father off? Please? lol.
I don't think you freaked your T out either.

I was the scapegoat growing up. But that didn't make me a 'victim'. It just describes how my family casted me.
In their undealt with dysfunction they continued to see me in that light.
I took the decision to 'divorce' them.
Notice how in all of that I did not take the role on myself.

[granite1]

I know I keep obsessing about this but I am just so freaked out . I was reading a thread today and the op was talking about her T thinking she was being manipulative. now I am wondering if my T was thinking that .or if maybe I was .I just don't know .I was sobbing and I don't usually do this. she ignored it. I know that how I was feeling was real. I don't know what I wanted as a response from her . I just don't know .I don't usually share this stuff and I never cry EVER. I don't know .I am going back Tuesday and I have no idea how it is going to go. was I being manipulative??? I don't know how to tell

Where on earth do you get from your session that you were being manipulative Granite. Stop doing that to yourself. You are upset, but you are upset because of how your family treats you. You seem to place the blame on everyone but the real cause of your pain and grief. Can you try to refocus on the actual cause of the pain and upset you were feeling when you walked into the session last week? You are actually making yourself the scapegoat now. Do you see that? Don't buy into your family's garbage.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

Where on earth do you get from your session that you were being manipulative Granite. Stop doing that to yourself. You are upset, but you are upset because of how your family treats you. You seem to place the blame on everyone but the real cause of your pain and grief. Can you try to refocus on the actual cause of the pain and upset you were feeling when you walked into the session last week? You are actually making yourself the scapegoat now. Do you see that? Don't buy into your family's garbage.

how ??? im not being argumentative here .my T said basically the same thing. I don't understand it and cant see it . I really am upset .I know im feeling horrible . I am trying to not engage with people and my farther at all. I am just thinking that maybe I was being manipulative because I know that gets T mad. she seemed so angry .but maybe that is just me .I don't honestly know it seemed so much like she was acting just like my family. that might be a clue that it is just me because although it seemed like it .why would my T do this. what would she get out of it ?what does she want from me by doing it . I don't know . i'm also trying to figure out how not to be scared to go back on tuesday

[HazelGirl]

Granite, I've read through this whole thread, and I have to agree that you are accepting the role thrown onto you by your family. I am so sorry you have to deal with their garbage like that. Your thinking seems to go like this: They treat me badly because I am bad. Rather than: They treat me badly because THEY are bad. Can you accept that what we are saying is true, even if you don't see it yourself?

[velcro003]

Granite-just saw and read through this thread. I need to think about what I want to say, BUT, please take a step back and breathe.



Did you do it? ()

NO ONE is on this thread trying to make you feel worse or that you are a horrible human being. NO ONE. I've only read positive, supportive things, but I think its so hard for you to see because you are feeling so so bad right now.

Its ok to feel bad, but please don't automatically think that WE (or your T) think that, because we don't. I don't think you are this horrible, mean person that you think you are.

I'll write more later. Hang in there, you are ok!

[granite1]

Originally Posted by velcro003

Granite-just saw and read through this thread. I need to think about what I want to say, BUT, please take a step back and breathe.



Did you do it? ()

NO ONE is on this thread trying to make you feel worse or that you are a horrible human being. NO ONE. I've only read positive, supportive things, but I think its so hard for you to see because you are feeling so so bad right now.

Its ok to feel bad, but please don't automatically think that WE (or your T) think that, because we don't. I don't think you are this horrible, mean person that you think you are.

I'll write more later. Hang in there, you are ok!

thanks Velcro. I think the people here have been nothing but hugely supportive of me and it really gives me a lot of practice in not automatically think everyone hates me . it is a little harder with my T for some reason but I am trying . this last session was really really hard .and I am having a hard time with it along with everything going on here on the home front. my son is leaving tomorrow and I will be able to hide from my farther and lick my wounds.

[velcro003]

oops i just asked on the couch if you deleted this! i missed it on the first go-round.

I REALLY agreed with RTS and Sierra's thoughts on this. How maybe your T is angry at the situation and not you, but you perceive her as being mad at you. Do you think there could be any truth in that? Because whenever you have Boot Camp T, and you are brave enough to ask her about it, she explains how she wasn't angry at you. I just find it hard to believe she suddenly gets angry at you.

Maybe she is just being more explicit in her advice because it concerns your son? I wishyou wouldn't "take myself out of the equation" when dealing with your father. She is just saying that it isn't healthy to have your son (or you!) around your dad because he is so awful to him (and you!). Not that she is thinking you are so horrible for doing it.