[InRealLife45]

It was a punishment anyway, (not responding according to our agreement) and it was unfair of you to do. It might help the tone of our sessions if you didn't mock me when I try to talk about what's bothering me. It might help if you did not respond with sarcasm. It might help if you did not respond with frustration. I don't create the atmosphere in these bad sessions by myself. I am trying to tell you something very specific each time I have brought up the fee increase issue, but you are focusing on the wrong part of what I'm saying, you grasp one half and completely ignore the other, more important piece of what I'm trying to communicate to you. I don't feel heard, and that is making ME frustrated, and upset. I don't understand how you feel it's okay to mock me, even if you think I'm wasting time, it's inappropriate and hurts my feelings. Obviously I need to process it and it isn't being resolved, you arent hearing what I'm saying you aren't responding to what Im saying which is why it keeps coming up over and over again.


I really just need you to listen. I don't know another way to say this; I need you to keep your frustration and pissed off feelings at being accused out of my sessions. I need you to hear what I'm really saying and not what you think I'm saying bc you're not listening to all of my words.

------------

Is this ok to email her or is it combative or should I wait and add it to what I intend to read to her on Wednesday?

[Leah123]

Sadly, I don't think it makes a difference: this relationship is so rife with conflict, obstacles and distrust that I really don't think you can make it worse.

Just read what you've written...

none of this should need to be said in therapy. I'm sorry you're stuck in such an unhealthy relationship, and that you're even paying for the email portion...

it's like... you could find an abusive boyfriend for free for this garbage-laden treatment.

If you're determined to continue, well there are advantages either way: sending now gets it off your chest AND gives her time to deal with her reactions, which are likely to be very defensive given what I know of her. The advantage to waiting though is to better convey your vulnerability, which won't come through via this message and you may feel more anxious after sending if she doesn't reply or doesn't reply well to this as she hasn't replied to your previous message...

[grimtopaz]

I'm curious, in an ideal world, what would you like her to write back to you?

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by grimtopaz

I'm curious, in an ideal world, what would you like her to write back to you?

Nothing. I want to discuss it in session And I want her to stop turning off her listening ears every time I say the word "fee" and really hear what I'm actually trying to say, which isn't really about the fee itself, more about what it meant (to me.)

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Sadly, I don't think it makes a difference: this relationship is so rife with conflict, obstacles and distrust that I really don't think you can make it worse.

Just read what you've written...

none of this should need to be said in therapy. I'm sorry you're stuck in such an unhealthy relationship, and that you're even paying for the email portion...

it's like... you could find an abusive boyfriend for free for this garbage-laden treatment.

If you're determined to continue, well there are advantages either way: sending now gets it off your chest AND gives her time to deal with her reactions, which are likely to be very defensive given what I know of her. The advantage to waiting though is to better convey your vulnerability, which won't come through via this message and you may feel more anxious after sending if she doesn't reply or doesn't reply well to this as she hasn't replied to your previous message...

she finally replied tonight:

Hey IRL,

My silence certainly wasn't meant as a punishment. I haven't responded because I needed some time to process how things have been going in your therapy with me and to formulate what I wanted to say to you.

After Wednesday, I found myself very weary of your accusations and complaints. It reminded me of the sessions we were having in May immediately before my contract was terminated by your insurance. These kind of sessions are very unpleasant and unproductive and Wednesday's session left me feeling closed off. Hence, no response until now.
See you Wednesday at 1pm.

[Leah123]

That's another unprofessional reply. Any free intern could do that well. I could do that well. Therapists are specifically trained and paid not to mishandle clients like that...

[unaluna]

It feels to me like you are disagreeing about whether the glass is half-empty or half-full. A half-empty glass is what you get IRL as leah says from an abusive partner. A half-full glass is what you get IRL from a good enough parent - the tipping point is the mood, the attitude, the commitment? The conscious vs the subconscious. Judgment vs unconditional positive regard. You have the half-glass of the fee. Its like anything else in therapy - its your choice how you look at it. How you look at it will determine how you will proceed. You keep asking her to make that decision for you. But the decision of what to accept as truth really has to come from you. You are writing your own story. Her story might be very wishy-washy! Or maybe she flips a coin to make a decision! Are you going to write your life story based on her floozy parameters? I doubt it!

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by hankster

It feels to me like you are disagreeing about whether the glass is half-empty or half-full. A half-empty glass is what you get IRL as leah says from an abusive partner. A half-full glass is what you get IRL from a good enough parent - the tipping point is the mood, the attitude, the commitment? The conscious vs the subconscious. Judgment vs unconditional positive regard. You have the half-glass of the fee. Its like anything else in therapy - its your choice how you look at it. How you look at it will determine how you will proceed. You keep asking her to make that decision for you. But the decision of what to accept as truth really has to come from you. You are writing your own story. Her story might be very wishy-washy! Or maybe she flips a coin to make a decision! Are you going to write your life story based on her floozy parameters? I doubt it!

i dont know how to tell a different story. everytime i look at this story, its about her not wanting me. every time. there are no different variations or editions, not other languages to interpret. its just that she doesnt want me.

[unaluna]

Yeah. Thats my story too.

Its important that WE say it, not the t, even tho its frustrating.

The next step is both of us (ie t and me) surviving my anger. Thats really why its unethical for her to quit or fire you. I dont think im spilling the beans here. Its still something you have to feel your way thru.

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by hankster

Yeah. Thats my story too.


Its important that WE say it, not the t, even tho its frustrating.


The next step is both of us (ie t and me) surviving my anger. Thats really why its unethical for her to quit or fire you. I dont think im spilling the beans here. Its still something you have to feel your way thru.

Important that we say it? Surviving anger ??... I don't understand exactly, I'm sorry.

I also don't think she cares about the ethics about firing me, she (in my opinion) only cares about getting in trouble/looking bad.

Originally Posted by InRealLife45

i dont know how to tell a different story. everytime i look at this story, its about her not wanting me. every time. there are no different variations or editions, not other languages to interpret. its just that she doesnt want me.

What if that is the truth, IRL? What if she has so many issues and problems of her own that she doesn't want to be your therapist anymore? How does it help you to stay in therapy with her if that is the case? What do you get out of it?

I am not trying to be mean, but I hate to see you banging your head against this wall over and over. There is some relief (and also great sadness and pain), in acknowledging that another person does not feel about us the way we wish they did, and then moving on. My life started being much easier when I could acknowledge that my mother did not want me, did not like me, and never really will. When I can completely let go of the desire to MAKE her like me somehow, my life will be easier still.

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

What if that is the truth, IRL? What if she has so many issues and problems of her own that she doesn't want to be your therapist anymore? How does it help you to stay in therapy with her if that is the case? What do you get out of it?

I am not trying to be mean, but I hate to see you banging your head against this wall over and over. There is some relief (and also great sadness and pain), in acknowledging that another person does not feel about us the way we wish they did, and then moving on. My life started being much easier when I could acknowledge that my mother did not want me, did not like me, and never really will. When I can completely let go of the desire to MAKE her like me somehow, my life will be easier still.

It doesn't. And I would want her to be honest and tell me that instead of talking in circles and insisting she does want to see me that she's always trying to convince me to come back. If that's the truth I can accept it but I want to hear it. Not decipher it by reading between the lines.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by InRealLife45

Important that we say it? Surviving anger ??... I don't understand exactly, I'm sorry.

I also don't think she cares about the ethics about firing me, she (in my opinion) only cares about getting in trouble/looking bad.

She kicked you out of the last session because you couldnt say it. You wanted her to say it. Now you said it here. Next step is to say it in session. Its important that you say it. She cant say it for you. She is the piano teacher, you are the student. She can play the piece but it wouldnt count. You have to play it.

Now when you play the musical piece, who needs her anymore? The mother surviving the daughter not needing her is scary. Some mothers dont handle it well, which makes it even harder for the daughter to separate. Im sorry if im being vague.

Originally Posted by InRealLife45

It doesn't. And I would want her to be honest and tell me that instead of talking in circles and insisting she does want to see me that she's always trying to convince me to come back. If that's the truth I can accept it but I want to hear it. Not decipher it by reading between the lines.

People with huge issues WON'T admit it. They cannot handle the damage it would do to their self esteem to admit it's their issue. Her behavior is telling you everything you need to know. You already know the answer, and you know that she is so defensive and entrenched in her position that she cannot acknowledge any part of her responsibility in this situation. Maybe it's time to stop using the 'I want her to admit it" excuse, and acknowledge you don't want to leave for some reason and try to figure out what that reason is, so you can work on that, to try to get to a place where you can save yourself. Because this woman sure as hell isn't going to save you or even help you a little bit.

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by hankster

She kicked you out of the last session because you couldnt say it. You wanted her to say it. Now you said it here. Next step is to say it in session. Its important that you say it. She cant say it for you. She is the piano teacher, you are the student. She can play the piece but it wouldnt count. You have to play it.


Now when you play the musical piece, who needs her anymore? The mother surviving the daughter not needing her is scary. Some mothers dont handle it well, which makes it even harder for the daughter to separate. Im sorry if im being vague.

She kicked me out if session bc I was not responding to her muddled attempt to formulate a coherent question.

[wotchermuggle]

I feel like I still don't know EXACTLY what you want to be different/what you want her to say/how you want her to respond.

Can you spell it out for me? Maybe it's just me, but even though your email said you didn't want her to respond like X, I'm still not confident I understand what you WANT.

For example, "When we were talking about X, I wanted to discuss how this situation made me feel, even if it isn't proportionate or misconstrued to the situation."

Or....."I'm not upset about the money part of the discussion, I'm upset about how easily expendable it made me seem. That was the part that was hurtful."

Am I on the right track? It seems like what you wrote in the email continues to just stir the pot because the actual issue isn't crystal clear.

Maybe it's just me though. I don't know.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by InRealLife45

She kicked me out if session bc I was not responding to her muddled attempt to formulate a coherent question.

Imo, i think you two are getting there. Maybe you were afraid to say it then, but you said it here, and the world didnt end.

I could be wrong, but it would be the first time

[PeeJay]

Originally Posted by InRealLife45

she finally replied tonight:

Hey IRL,

My silence certainly wasn't meant as a punishment. I haven't responded because I needed some time to process how things have been going in your therapy with me and to formulate what I wanted to say to you.

After Wednesday, I found myself very weary of your accusations and complaints. It reminded me of the sessions we were having in May immediately before my contract was terminated by your insurance. These kind of sessions are very unpleasant and unproductive and Wednesday's session left me feeling closed off. Hence, no response until now.
See you Wednesday at 1pm.

This T has given me the willies ever since you first posted that video of her a while back.

I really can't stand this woman. Not that I matter at all but I wish you could muster some anger at her for not treating you how you deserve (as a paying client) and leave her sorry ***** behind.

I know she held your hand in the beginning and was sweet to you, and it's like you attached to her strongly and you haven't been able to let go of how it used to be.

Somewhere along the way, the relationship was corrupted and I'm inclined to pin the blame on her for being an incompetent therapist. She should've never have said you're the type of client to slash her tires. (What was she thinking, saying that!?) And then when you left the note on her car and she freaked out, she once again mishandled the situation.

It's like this therapist gives you just enough good times for you to hang onto, but then the bad times pile up and pile up.

What do you think you'll do next?

[Gavinandnikki]

You can not force her to give you the response you think you want. This is an expensive fight. Let it go and move on. You will not get what you think you want from this woman. This is quite obvious.

[PeeJay]

Although I half want to see you keep going to see this woman simply to give her h*ll. But, it's not good for you, in the end, to be the source of her discomfort.

[lilypup]

Gosh, this seems like a lot of side drama. Shouldn't you be focusing on your issues? I'd move on to someone cheerier.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

People with huge issues WON'T admit it. They cannot handle the damage it would do to their self esteem to admit it's their issue. Her behavior is telling you everything you need to know. You already know the answer, and you know that she is so defensive and entrenched in her position that she cannot acknowledge any part of her responsibility in this situation. Maybe it's time to stop using the 'I want her to admit it" excuse, and acknowledge you don't want to leave for some reason and try to figure out what that reason is, so you can work on that, to try to get to a place where you can save yourself. Because this woman sure as hell isn't going to save you or even help you a little bit.

This is an excellent observation. I agree IRL; you already know that this is a dysfunctional relationship and she is never going to give you the answers you want. Being dysfunctionally attached to her is not a reason to stay with her. It is making you worse. What would actually help you is figuring out why you are choosing to stay in this dysfunctional relationship when you know, logically, that it is very harmful to you. Yes, the T is at fault for the way she is behaving. But you are an adult and you are making the decision to keep going to her. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter what you say to her. There isn't anything that can be said that will fix this relationship. She does not have the skills to help you. You know that the longer you stay, the more damage you will do to yourself. If you want to get better, think about why you are making excuses for not being able to leave. You can leave if you want to you.

[StressedMess]

I have to pull up my big girl panties occasionally and ask for what I need. It pisses me off, they know me well enough to figure out what I want, they can tell from my reaction when they strike out or hit a home run, so why do I have to spell it out for them??!!

Because she can't read your mind. Because she is analytical in the face of your emotion. Because she feels trapped in this situation and so do you. Because of thousands of other reasons too.

This is hard, embarrassing, and hurtful to say. "T, when you dropped my insurance and wanted me to pay out of pocket, I felt that you were giving up on me for that paltry amount of money."

What would be a suitable response? What do you need her to say back to you? "I need to hear that you value our relationship more than money."

What can you give up if she responds the way you need her to? "I will feel much more valued and less inclined to argue over semantics if you would just tell me I'm more important to you than money."

But what if she can't say the things you need to hear? What if she's so firmly entrenched over this that she can never say those things to you? At what point do you walk away and save yourself the frustration of needing something she will never be able to give you?

That answer can only come from you.

I'm sorry and here's a hug because it sounds like you need one.

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