[Talulah]

Hey all~
I enjoy reading about the differences each t has when I read your posts etc. I'm really fascinated by different styles and approaches that they take with us, how they interact...

I know that each one of us requires a different set of criteria with response to treatment and so forth. How our T reacts to us could be very different than how they interact with their previous client or next client for example, due to our different circumstances and reasons for therapy, and of course, their therapeutic orientations and our "diagnoses".

I often analyze (and over-analyze) how/why my t does (or doesn't do) what she does with me.

For example, my t has never ever touched me, not a hug, not a handshake, nothing. I've been going for a year and a half and she's a psyd (Cognitive, systemic, ecelectic). She's given me reciepts or slips to sign, change due, hand lotion (a squirt from a bottle) even a music CD, all without touching me. She sits across from me and says I'm her only client that uses the chair, not the couch. She never moves closer.

I am not sexually attracted to her but have wished (in my mind) that she had hugged me or comforted me by touch on the hand or a pat or something after a few particularly difficult sessions. One she even got a bit teary during and I feel so far away......maybe this isn't her style as I haven't seen her in other session obviously, but I am left to wonder why she's never reached out to me. Is this common or uncommon? Maybe I'm in a transference moment.

I guess my point that I'm getting at here is: what does your t do (or not do) that you wish to change? Do they ever hug you? Are they kind or stern? Do they cry during sessions? Sleep? Anyone care to share the things they most like or dislike about their t?

[Pughead]

I shake my T's hand when I leave. I don't think he would do more than that...he'd rather just listen.

[winterbaby]

I wish he would do more more more! Whatever he wants. Well he only once touched my hand. Too little too late.

[pamelasu]

My therapist never use to hug her client's either and she never reach out like your therapist. Then one day I asked her if I could give her a hug. That changed everything. She had to take a few weeks to think about it before she actually did it but then she hugged me and caught me when I wasn't expecting it. Now and then she gives me hugs and now she reaches out to touch me as well. It helped me a lot when she did that. Made therapy a lot easier to attend. Maybe ask your therapist if you could hug her! She may surprise you!

[sunrise]

Talulah, your question about whether our T's sleep during our sessions cracked me up!

Here are the answers for my T:
Hugs? No
Other touch? No
Kind? Yes!!!
Stern? No
Cries? On occasion
Sleeps? No, but sometimes he yawns!
Eats? He sometimes snacks during my sessions, lol
Refreshments? always offers me water or will make me coffee or tea

What do I like about my T? Everything. I like the way he runs his hand through his hair. Is it OK to say that?
What do I dislike? Nothing

i have touched my therapist once. the very first time i met him he offered me his hand to shake. i took it... and shook it... and he didn't do anything really. didn't grasp me back, or shake me back. i thought it was a bit odd at the time... maybe he was trying to assess how nervous i was (by seeing how sweaty my palms were - i had just gone to the bathroom and washed and well dried my hands ha!)... maybe it was just a polite social gesture...

i think there was something strangely reassuring in that, however. though i did find it rather odd... i looked at him a little strangely... but what i did take from that is that he wasn't going to be playing power games (who is grasping / shaking the hardest? who gets their hand on top?) and... i guess i thought about the sexual connotations too (blush)...

and that brings me to a point: it is very controversial... i found something on the internet about boundary 'crossings' versus boundary 'violations'. you can probably find it through google if you are interested. it was fairly novel / slightly revolutionary, however.

common wisdom (i think it is fair to say that) is that some clients... you have to be really very careful about boundaries. in particular... people who have (or may have) a history of sexual abuse. why? because sometimes a gesture that might be meant as friendly (such as a handshake or a hug) can trigger someone into having / feeling some kind of sexual response / stimulation. so the client might think that they want a friendly (motherly for example) hug... but if that happens... they might feel a sexual response. and then... confusion. a lot of confusion. that can make therapy difficult / too intense.

so sometimes therapists are very careful about not touching etc. to try and help therapy stay on course and to try not to escalate (or initiate) sexual / transference stuff.

am i making any sense?

the article on boundary crossings vs violations challenged this accepted wisdom and basically talked about how boundary crossings (such things as hugs etc) can actually be legitimately used to help therapy along...

i think your feelings are fairly normal (in the sense that i've certainly heard other people feel similarly)

with respect to me... i'm glad we seem to have this 'no touch' thing happening... really very... because much as part of me would love a hug or something... i think that part of me would feel really very confused if that did happen... so really... i'm really very glad that there is physical space / distance. i guess because of my history... that is really very important to me. though... i'm sure i'll push that at some point ;-)

[Talulah]

Ha ha Sunrise.....snacking? Never thought of that one! Guess they do need snack time as well.

My girlfriend went to a t when se broke up from a 10 year relationship and this guy fell asleep and snored during her session! Rude and unacceptable...even as she cried....

Yep, my t always asks if I want water....since I almost always arrive with a Starbucks I usually decline. She often comments about how she like Chai tea and says "mmmm, starbucks" so I've often wanted to bring her one, but feel weird about that.

Alex...yep done soooo much research on the ethics/boundaries/violations bit and probably found the same as you. Some are pro-crossing if/when the situation calls for it (requires careful consideration etc). Some are completely ANTI boundary crossing. Mine has minor little ones, like she copied a music cd for me and accepted one from me as well. She self discloses fairly a lot, imo. She said she was interested in why I drown myself in this artist's music and tries to listen to it from my viewpoint as best she can to see where I'm coming from. She laughs and tells me I'm very dark and draws many conclusions from other clients who've given her songs by the same artist as I. She teases me a bit about listening to Tori Amos so much.

That's primarily why I posted this, wondering how people's therapists "deal" with this etc.

In my case I have past trauma both childhood and adult of the physical/emotional and sexual nature so I think that really factors in with her. But still, sometimes I want a hug or something, especially when SHE cries during what I'm saying, or when she gets upset about what has happened to me. I belive she'll never initiate due to my history and her fear that I may feel violated ot threatened etc.

Then again, I am gay (she's straight) and maybe she worries I'll "fall" for her, lol. I do like her a great deal, but she's not my "type" ha ha, so I don't hink an innocent brush or touch would lead me to that. I'm also happily in a long-term relationship.

Wow, pamelasu, you are brave and it paid off! I wish I could do that....maybe I can ask her why she sits so far and maybe I can move closer to her. I don't think I could ask her for a hug, I couldn't handle the rejection if it happens. She is just so kind and genuine that it feels natural that she would do this in these moments so I'm confused a bit or put off that she never reaches out to me, not even to move closer to "test" me or help me in this way. Well, maybe I'll test the waters a bit and become more "open" to touch with her, I think she's afraid as I sit curled up or cross-legged in a chair apparently no other client uses and tightly hold myself together and seem guarded I think.

[sunrise]

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alexandra_k said:
and that brings me to a point: it is very controversial... i found something on the internet about boundary 'crossings' versus boundary 'violations'. you can probably find it through google if you are interested. it was fairly novel / slightly revolutionary, however.

the article on boundary crossings vs violations challenged this accepted wisdom and basically talked about how boundary crossings (such things as hugs etc) can actually be legitimately used to help therapy along...

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Alexandra, I think I posted the link for this exact same article a couple of weeks ago in one of the threads here! It was very thought-provoking. I have a lot of boundary crossings in my therapy, mostly of the self-disclosure type from T, and they have been totally therapeutic, so I found a lot of this guy's article in sync with what I know to be true through experience.

I'm fine with the fact that we don't do hugs in my therapy. I feel so close to him even without physical contact.

Talulah, I also thought it was kind of cool my T eats while I am there. He didn't at first, but as we got used to each other and achieved some kind of bond, he started doing it. I thought it was cool he felt comfortable enough with me to eat in my presence. It's certainly better than sleeping! That was terrible about what you wrote about your friend's T sleeping/snoring during her session. I think you should try bringing your T a Chai from Starbucks sometime. It sounds to me like she's practically begging for it!

[Perna]

My T once forgot the keys to the office so we had to go "elsewhere" and ended up in a little cafe/restaurant! I was worried I'd cry and I ordered something to eat and she only ordered tea and when the bill came it said we couldn't use a charge card unless there was $10 worth and there wasn't and we didn't have enough cash to pay the bill :-) The whole experience was very scary but exciting and "fun" in a way too.

I had "taken charge" of finding a place to meet and she confessed she probably shouldn't have let me do that, she probably should have made more effort (I use to drive around the area before my session since I'd get there super early to make sure I wasn't late whereas she was from another state and didn't have time/interest). I knew where the library was and we went there first but it turned out to be closed that day but the cafe/lunchroom was right across the street.

Oh, they let us charge the bill and she paid :-) Made me feel bad for ordering a sandwich when she only had tea but I had to give her that hefty check to pay for the session so I quit feeling so bad.

My T was male...prolly still is, but he's not my T anymore!

He never touched me, which is exactly what I needed. There were moments in the beginning when I wished for more, but thank goodness he's one of the good guys. IMO, it's not their job to comfort us physically. That stuff belongs in our non-paid relationships!

emmy

[pamelasu]

You know what I think I may have figured something out. You said that you generally sit cross legged and curled up. My therapist told me once that when you sit with your arms crossed and your legs crossed over eachother that you are generally saying that you are not comfortable to be open about things. Maybe try to open your body language and uncross those legs and not curl up so much!! I know it's hard at first but it will get easier with time. Every since she told me that I stopped sitting that way because I wanted so badly to to help myself that I would try anything to feel better. Just something to think about. Try uncrossing your legs and not be so curled up. Maybe she will loosen up a little too!! Good luck to you!

do you think you could bring the issue up? you don't have to ask her for a hug (which i really understand can be too hard because of the potential for rejection). but you could ask her a bit about whether she does hug clients sometimes and what her policy is on that etc... it might be a (relatively) safe way into discussing it?

i would imagine... what a lot of therapists do... is when the client asks them for a hug they spend a bit of time processing what it would mean to the client. to see whether it really would be in the clients best interests, you see.

another thing that can factor in is that some people simply aren't huggy people and they don't much like being touched. it could be that your therapist is one of those. i had a terrific therapist who really wasn't. our very last session together she asked if i wanted a hug. i think she was expecting that i wouldn't. but i hugged her. a kind of gentle tender hug. and she really tried to hug me back... but she seemed fairly awkward. and when she flinched i backed off. she was trying... but i really don't think she was a huggy person.

sounds like your t does do a lot to help you feel cared about and connected :-) the cd and stuff like that :-)

i wish i could curl up but i worry about putting my feet on the couch. so i kind of lean forward with my arms on my knees and stare at a corner of the rug by my feet. the more i disclose things that are hard the more i kind of physically curl up. the more i'm sitting with an open and relaxed posture the more i'm chatting about things that i really don't give a rats arse about.

i'm glad that he doesn't comment on my posture at all. to start with i guess he thought i was leaning forward and so he tried to mirror that (which was really very awkward for me). now i think he gets that its the best i can do with respect to curling up, i guess. i might ask him at some point if he minds if i put my feet up. dunno.

[Perna]

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pamelasu said:
You know what I think I may have figured something out. You said that you generally sit cross legged and curled up. My therapist told me once that when you sit with your arms crossed and your legs crossed over eachother that you are generally saying that you are not comfortable to be open about things. Maybe try to open your body language and uncross those legs and not curl up so much!! I know it's hard at first but it will get easier with time. Every since she told me that I stopped sitting that way because I wanted so badly to to help myself that I would try anything to feel better. Just something to think about. Try uncrossing your legs and not be so curled up. Maybe she will loosen up a little too!! Good luck to you!

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Pamelasu, that's what I figured out too; the "second" time I went into therapy it was with that one rule for myself, no fetal position either literally or emotionally; I had to try to keep myself open so I could "get out" and my T could "get in."

[Talulah]

Sunrise, I guess that is pretty cool that your t munches a bit. It relates to the comfort level you two share......very cool.

Perna, that is a very interesting experience! I would have felt so akward. We have never met outside of the office but may be frequenting the same gym so I'm nervous about that. At least she picked up the tab, ha ha, therapy is indeed expensive!

Hmmm, you guys are right about my body language, but honestly i sit so far (it seems) that I feel akward as though she IS reading my language so much. the scrutiny kinda makes me close up too. I think I will try to sit with my feet on the floor and maybe my arms more relaxed. I won't use the couch thou, dunno why, just don't like the couch so much.

Alex, yea for sure, put your feet on the couch! If you're unsure, asking, like you suggested is good, but I bet he'd be ok with that. Probably it might raise your little face up as well instead of staring down, if you change your body position maybe you'll end up with your face looking more in his "direction" which would be interesting (for you both!).

As for the starbucks.......yea, I might try that. Sometimes it feels like we're just really good friends and there is no power differential existing between us. I have to remind myself that we're not!

Umm, my t self discloses a lot too. I like it so far, it helps, I still fear the day I learn too much though. But so far, yea, she reveals things and I get surprised a bit. This is where the line can blur I bet. Even for her as she's told me that she likes me very much (not like THAT) it would be fun to be friends if the ethics allowed. And, that I'm easy to care for. She told me that she often has to search deep into herself to find things she likes about some of her clients. I stooped therapy for a few months when I couldn't deal with some of the issues we were touching on. I could tell she was bummed, and I wanted her to "come after" me. Upon my return she told me how glad she was that I came back and that she wanted to reach out to me, but to do that would be doing that for her, and not for me. She has to be careful that all she does is in my best interest (as Alex stated earlier) I think she eeks to that edge with me because I feel her wanting to do "friend" like things with me and I can tell she withdraws for ethics purposes (which I respect and admire actually), but it does also confuse at times.

Reading those boundary crossing articles are intreresting because I test my t against those. But I can get pretty analytical about it.

I like you guys revealing about your ts. It puts a fresh perspective on it all, and somehow I'm seeking this knowledge to help, in part, guide me as well...

[allthegirls6]

My T holds my hand, strokes my face, wraps me up in a blanket and hold me close to her. We sit together on the floor, sometimes she takes my arm and tucks it under her arm. She gives me kisses on the forehead and generally we touch alot. There is nothing sexual, its like being with a mum or something. It feels wholesome and decent. We all love it, I hope noone thinks it stange.

i've heard that there are a lot of therapists out there who do that kind of thing.

it is a fairly controversial technique...

if you are okay with it
and if t is appropriately sensitive to your interests
and is acting in your interests
then i guess it is okay IMHO.

i don't know.

[Talulah]

Yea, I've heard of this tecnique as well. I think when applied to the appropriate situations and of course, if you feel safe and non-violated then I find it wonderful that you can connect this way.
It's like a very nurturing aspect of therapy that some incoporate to help their clients feel the safety and security they need...
You feeling "wholesome and decent", it sounds like its working for you very well.

[sunrise]

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I like you guys revealing about your ts. It puts a fresh perspective on it all, and somehow I'm seeking this knowledge to help, in part, guide me as well...

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Talulah, I feel the same way. I am really enjoying this thread and learning a lot about the diversity of therapists and therapy experiences that are out there. Thanks, everyone, for sharing!

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Umm, my t self discloses a lot too. I like it so far, it helps, I still fear the day I learn too much though.

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I did have an experience where something he self disclosed to me really hit me hard. Whenever anything hits me hard, I don' t deal with it and have a hard time even feeling it. It took me a month or two to realize how I had been affected by it. I told him about it later and he immediately rushed to help and we had the best session. Everything's good now and I have a deeper understanding of him and what my own reaction says about my current situation. I just love my T.

allthegirls6, that is really intense, how you and your T share. It sounds very nurturing. Do you do that regularly or just in sessions when you are in deep need? I'm not sure if I could do that with my T or not because of the transference, which is already so strong as it is.

Another thing my T does: he sometimes uses terms of endearment with me. Not often, but occasionally they slip out. They really warm my heart.

[jennie]

My therapist has hugged and patted my back and hand. I'm not a touchy-feely type of person but I appreciate her efforts to reach me when I'm being aloof.

I've been seeing her for over 3 years. She seems very grounded no matter how hectic her work schedule becomes. She's classy, assertive, funny, intelligent, opinionated, and optimistic. I trust her.

What I'd like to change about my therapist . . . for her to schedule our appointments. I don't like to pick the time and date.

What I like best about my therapist . . . her sense of humor. I love it when she's sarcastic.

((allthegirls))

I think it's wonderful how your t cares about you. I'm so glad for you that she fills a deep need for you!

It would be something I would love to experience myself.

Talulah,

This is such an interesting thread! Thanks for starting it! I hope it keeps going and going...

[Hopefull]

Favorite thing about current T: She gives me a sense of hope about the future.
We do not touch except for a hand shake when we first met. I complained about not getting many hugs (two to threee a week at church) and she asked me if I ever get hugs from a counselor or would be comfortable with that. I said, " No." I transfered on the last counselor in a strange way. She made me think of a mother figure and it was very strong. I am not sure I want to invite some strange transferance into this relationship. Besides, I prefer to get my physical contact from people that doesn't outrank me. But, I fantasize about becoming a cat and jumping into her lap. Sometimes, I imagine me laying on the couch with my head in her lap and her running her fingers through my hair like my great aunt (died 2005) used to do.
Thing that I dislike about T: busy schedule, Sometimes, I wish she could read my mind. She brought up anti-depressants and I clammed up. She brought it up in session after session. But, she never ask me about if I had ever wrote up a pros and cons list on the subject. She never ask me why I was hesitating or what was I struggling with on this subject. She just kept bringing it up and doing almost all the talking. It was like she thought that I wasn't going to talk because I clammed up in the initial session about anti-depressants. She gave me advice once when I did not ask for it. I don't like advice unless I ask for it. I have not yet decided if I want to improve my diet. I just mentioned that I was thinking about it and she started giving me diet advice.
On the subject of sleeping/eating in session, my T drinks water at times. Sometimes she stops to search for some chap stick. When she gets dry lips and starts licking them, I get distracted by it. One time she stuck some stickers or something in the file. I started talking about "playing with stickers " at work (hanging sale tags). One time someone interrupted us. I forget what we were talking about. I doubt that I remember much from that session except that the intruder appologized to T and ignored my presence entirely. I know that people are not sure if the person is embarassed to be seen in therapy but I would have appreciated if she appologized to me in addiction to apologizing to T.
Pdoc got a phone call in the middle of session. GRRR!

My therapist has never touched me or hugged me. I'm glad as I would feel very uncomfortable with it. She doesn't self-disclose very much. She has mentioned her daughter has a mental illness & that sometimes she'll need to answer a page if it is her daughter. She has recommended an out-patient program for me, which was very helpful. I have bipolar. She has many patients with bp & is very familiar with the symptoms & has called my pdoc (with my permission) when she recognized that I was suicidal.

My pdoc (also female) started giving me a hug when I left her office after about two years of treating me. She seems to really care about me & gives me accolades on how much I'm taking more responsibility for my mental illness & not just popping my pills. I am attempting to manage my environment better & doing some self-care things. Now when I leave her office I automatically reach out for a hug.--Suzy

[Calm]

My T is always on time for appointments. When T has been called for whatever reason, T has always promptly returned the call. T listens well, and I think T really tries to understand where I'm coming from on what we are discussing at the time. T has shared limited personal information (T has good boundaries) only when I have questioned T about something. I like that T is willing to share that information with me. In a way, I find it comforting and helps me feel more at ease. T has a great smile and that, too, I find helps me to relax. I've never heard T really let loose with a big laugh and wish someday I will. That would be cool. T, above all else, is very patient and always seems at ease. No matter what subject is discussed, T doesn't ever appear shocked, repulsed or rejecting. T remains positive through it all.

The only negative I can think of is T's full schedule. There have been times when I could have used an extra session during a particular week. I know T is very mindful of the appointment limitations set by the insurance company, and we've been able to stretch the limited number of visits to cover most of the year. There have been those times though when an extra session would have been beneficial.

So, that's about it. T is a good T.

Calm

[Talulah]

Jennie, I think your t sounds amazing! I think I can tell a bit when mine is overwhelmed or busy. She can 'come off' a little scattered at times and I dislike that...she revealed she has 35 total patients, I kinda wonder if that's a lot. it seems as though it is....

Echoes, thanks for the support! I LOVE this thread because I really am curious about our Ts and I think we do need to think about them, their characteristics at least, in regard to our own relations with them. I hope I get some ppl reflecting on these if they're not already, because this is a significant relationship, the therapeutic dyad.

My t says that this IS one of the most important relationships, it's intense, and it's not necessarily replicated anywhere else in the same way, in our lives. She says she has to believe that how we relate in therapy, how we overcome hurdles together, resolve conflict together and nurture together is how I'm applying it in the greater part of my life. In this way it's ok for me to become happy with her, upset with her etc...it's all in how we move forward.

She says she learns how I (or her other patients) let themselves be cared for (or not in my case) in therapy. How we take care of ourselves or maintain care in the outside realtionships is something revealed with her.

Hopefull, the cat thing is so cool! Yes, to be a furry little creature and sit in the lap or on the feet of my t would be so wonderful! Sounds like distractions are so intrusive! I hope to never experience this. I am always scheduled last and nobody else is there. I know she does this for me on purpose for my comfort and ability to feel more open. I wouldn't be afraid to mention you don't want too much advice unless you prompt her for it. I've done the same with mine as she goes off with tons of info on semthing random like diest and sleep. I tell her, I don't want to be using our time to talk about this stuff.....

Suzy, so cool you get hugs from pdoc. Mine is a man, and I take phone sessions with him-don't wanna see him. I had to go in person though the first time and my t went with me as she referred him. I know they discuss some of my treatment but I don't want to see him at all.

Calm, I like that you respect those boundaries! It's so hard for me, I want crossings but I don't ya know?