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  #76  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 10:33 AM
Anonymous50122
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Originally Posted by JaneTennison1 View Post
That's a lot of detail. Usually if I include that much detail I want to elicit a certain response. I'm all for having your say but for your health why not follow stopdog's suggestion?
I agree with Jane T. I have sent an email and a text to my T explaining why I was quitting. I realised after sending the email that I wanted a response from her, that was why I had written my thoughts. I therefore didn't quit, I went to my next appointment to discuss (she doesn't discuss things by text or email), and I didn't quit after all. I don't know if this applies to you too - if you email her if in some way you are looking for a response (maybe some shred of understanding?) from her? If so, then emailing your thoughts is not quitting, it is carrying on.

I identify with you going in to see her to express yourself rather than simply walking away - I did that too with my T the first time I wanted to quit, I decided to go in and tell her how angry I was first - I wanted to face up to someone, perhaps for the first time in my life. I think my T probably responded differently to me than your T did to you.
Thanks for this!
unaluna

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  #77  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 10:35 AM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by NowhereUSA View Post
Short and sweet. When you give excuses, you're cracking a door. Slam that thing shut.

"I'm canceling all upcoming appointments. Please do not contact me." - IG

Then send a separate email with, "Please provide my records. Thank you" to whomever is in charge of dealing with that.

The end. It's professional, polite, and if she does contact you, ignore, ignore, ignore. Pulling from DBT - be a broken record and in this case it means no matter what, do not respond to her.
I know this is good and sane advice, echoed by lots of others.

I thought I could do it alone but think I might need help, so have called about emergency counselling with a local body. As it happens they have no waiting list at present, so will call back by close of play with a few dates/ times I can potentially go in next week etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by licketysplit View Post
Hi IG, I used the term leaking, but I was not referring to leaking the truth. I meant leaking your personal power, giving it away for her to do what she wants with it. You don't see it that way, but I just wanted to clear up what I meant. Less, in this case, is more.
Thank you for explaining - I guess I see there being a certain type of personal power in speaking the truth before walking away. I understand your point of view too, though.
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  #78  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 10:46 AM
Anonymous37777
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I'm glad you called the emergency counseling center, IG, and that they were able to let you know that they will get you ASAP. Here's hoping that they have an opening quickly! You deserve the support.

I was going to comment yet again on whether or not to send the lengthier email but then, after reading your responses, I realized that you have probably already made your decision and acted on it. I totally understand and I hope that letting her know how she made you feel soothes some of the hurt!
Only you know what works for you.
  #79  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 10:48 AM
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feralkittymom feralkittymom is offline
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She is the first person that I have had this pattern with, where I have not lost my temper and torn strips off them. I didn't think I was going in there to do that today- I really wanted to stay in control, and be assertive, but not lash out and spit out what I think very savagely. I went too far the other way, and dissolved. Somebody hand me a grip.

IG, this^ is what made me think that your usual pattern of ending relationships is to burn them up. So I was thinking to be able to handle a break-up completely differently might be empowering. My fear is that the emotional backlash from going out "in a blaze of glory" may not be the elation and satisfaction you anticipate, but rather a feeling of self-hatred or defeat. Understand, I don't think she can be of help to you anymore; but I want you to walk away feeling strong, not destabilized.

ETA: Glad to see you're going to have some help with this!
Thanks for this!
JustShakey
  #80  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 10:58 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl View Post
In general, when it comes to last chances to say what's on your mind, I tend to think we regret the things we don't say.
I understand this feeling. I've often been mute when faced with abuse or rudeness and have many regrets about moments gone by.

But I've also spoken up, sometimes even in the moment, and learned the hard way of its consequences. So I weigh what I'd get out of speaking up and do my best to be strategic.

I assume that you've been far from the stoic soldier through this drama. You've expressed your unhappiness? Your unhappiness is no surprise to her?

I experienced that if a therapist lacks the Stuff to right a troubled relationship, it's unlikely she's open to learning from a client. Attempts only result in a frustrating stalemate that's all about training the therapist and not moving life forward.

You said you want to file a complaint? You'll have plenty to say then. Now, I think, you're best off keeping your cards close to your chest, holding control and not giving anything away the therapist can twist. My complaint process was a clash of the titans, with the therapist telling lies and twisting my words.

It's strategy.
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom, JustShakey
  #81  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 11:09 AM
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CrimsonBlues CrimsonBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by feralkittymom View Post
She is the first person that I have had this pattern with, where I have not lost my temper and torn strips off them. I didn't think I was going in there to do that today- I really wanted to stay in control, and be assertive, but not lash out and spit out what I think very savagely. I went too far the other way, and dissolved. Somebody hand me a grip.

IG, this^ is what made me think that your usual pattern of ending relationships is to burn them up. So I was thinking to be able to handle a break-up completely differently might be empowering. My fear is that the emotional backlash from going out "in a blaze of glory" may not be the elation and satisfaction you anticipate, but rather a feeling of self-hatred or defeat. Understand, I don't think she can be of help to you anymore; but I want you to walk away feeling strong, not destabilized.
I agree with feralkittymom, that how you leave this situation is important for you. I think that the short and to the point method is the best solution for purposes of ending the therapy. When I was in a situation where I decided to leave a therapist who was causing damage I sent a short note, saying just that I felt the therapy wasn't working for me and that I was terminating. I had a lot to say, so much to say, so many feelings about all that had transpired but I wanted to take some time to process everything and put my thoughts in order. And, several weeks later I sent a letter. You might consider this idea. You can take your time to decide if you want to send a letter and what you want to say. I think you have every right to be able to articulate your feelings to her about this. You can do it in a termination letter, if you want, but it doesn't have to be done all at once.

It's all so overwhelming, leaving the therapy and thinking about all that happened and what you want to say. Maybe take it step by step. End the therapy with a quick note. Then begin to write out your feelings about all of it. I don't know if you have plans to see another therapist but if so, you might also consider talking to them about everything. Just think about what would be best for you-now and in the long run. Taking your time doesn't mean that you can't ever express yourself, just that you are thinking of what is best for you, and how you want to handle all of it.

Take care of you.
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom
  #82  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 11:11 AM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaybird57 View Post
I'm glad you called the emergency counseling center, IG, and that they were able to let you know that they will get you ASAP. Here's hoping that they have an opening quickly! You deserve the support.

I was going to comment yet again on whether or not to send the lengthier email but then, after reading your responses, I realized that you have probably already made your decision and acted on it. I totally understand and I hope that letting her know how she made you feel soothes some of the hurt!
Only you know what works for you.
Thank you! Yeah, I do hope they can slot me in sometime over the next week. Would be helpful and they are also so cheeeeep!!! Only £12! TWELVE POUNDS!! Because they are a charity And if I said I wasn't working at present they would have a sliding scale and it would be like £6! Wtf! My jaw hit the floor. Twelve quid is nothing. Twelve pounds is a bottle of reasonable wine, not a counselling session.

No I have not sent the email yet - wanted to write it, sleep on it, and take my time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feralkittymom View Post
She is the first person that I have had this pattern with, where I have not lost my temper and torn strips off them. I didn't think I was going in there to do that today- I really wanted to stay in control, and be assertive, but not lash out and spit out what I think very savagely. I went too far the other way, and dissolved. Somebody hand me a grip.

IG, this^ is what made me think that your usual pattern of ending relationships is to burn them up. So I was thinking to be able to handle a break-up completely differently might be empowering. My fear is that the emotional backlash from going out "in a blaze of glory" may not be the elation and satisfaction you anticipate, but rather a feeling of self-hatred or defeat. Understand, I don't think she can be of help to you anymore; but I want you to walk away feeling strong, not destabilized.
Yes, I totally see how it looks like I always burn bridges, but as I say, I always try to leave room for further communication at some point in the future no matter how bitter the row.

In reality that has worked out quite well. My old best friend and I are talking after a mahoosive horrible row (where we both were very much in the wrong - my borderline meeting her bipolar on a bad day for us both) and no contact for a year.

With exes, again no matter how agonizing the rows and ending, I think saying what was really on my mind allowed me to move on from them properly. When I think of my two big exes, there is nothing I wish I had said at the time. I said everything I felt at the time.

I have never been one for maintaining a dignified silence, or retaining an air of mystery

However, maybe I would move on much quicker if I keep it minimal in this instance. I just don't know. I'm not trying to be stupid, I really do not know which is best for me in this particular case.
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Been trying hard not to get into trouble, but I
I got a war in my mind
~ Lana Del Rey

How many cares one loses when one decides not to be something but to be someone
~ Coco Chanel

One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman
~ Simone de Beauvoir
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom
  #83  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 11:29 AM
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feralkittymom feralkittymom is offline
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I really like Crimson's advice that you can say your piece in stages, at the times and in the ways that are least difficult and most meaningful for you.
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  #84  
Old Jan 29, 2015, 03:35 PM
Elisabetta346 Elisabetta346 is offline
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Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl View Post
I went to the session. In my head, I was strong. What motivated me to go was feeling irritated at my own spinelessness if I just shrank away and didn't go back. I wanted to confront her, lay out all my complaints on the table, and re-assert myself. Say that it's not acceptable, I am going, I am not abusive and actually come to think of it - you are being rather abusive yourself.

Cowardice has always been something I can't stand to feel in myself, if I think I'm copping out of something I make myself do it, even if it's not wise. And I should have know by now. But I honestly felt so tough. I was wearing clothes that make me feel very much like myself (fur bolero, good boots) and a good spritz of perfume that makes me feel good, and had blasted loads of music that makes me feel upbeat. I thought I had it.

I just turned into a mouse in the room, feeling like I was being watched by an indifferent and bored cat, suddenly all the fight went out of me I was talking and talking, trying to keep the cat happy, and confused because some of the things she said do make sense. My behaviour elicits this response in others who are very close, ie family, partners, so what am I doing to get this response??? She has a point there? She said, you basically told me I'm sh#t, and I won't take that after all I've done, I don't take abuse from anyone.

Now I am more confused, I don't feel safe at all, but there is information there that is useful. I don't know if you have seen the old movie Mrs Frisby & the Rats of Nimh, but there is a bit where the field mouse goes to get advice from the owl who is terrifying. The owl gives some advice that points Mrs Frisby in the direction of how to save her son's life, but at the same time she is terrified he might eat her. That's where I am.

I hate feeling weak, and I hate feeling like she has a point because it makes my points less solid. I don't hate her, but interestingly I don't feel love towards her either (good) because I think I'm too busy being afraid and mistrustful (bad, cowardly).

She is the first person that I have had this pattern with, where I have not lost my temper and torn strips off them. I didn't think I was going in there to do that today- I really wanted to stay in control, and be assertive, but not lash out and spit out what I think very savagely. I went too far the other way, and dissolved. Somebody hand me a grip.
I think your being too hard on yourself sweetie. She is manipulative, you in a vulnerable place with her, even see titles of your threads such as BPD traits cause this. NO YOU DID NOT SCREW UP and your "BPD" diagnosis is not to blame. goal of therapy is to learn skills how to regulate emotions, become healthy and lead a happy productive life you deserve. she is out of line and down right abusive, after reading some of your stuff. I think in this case, I'd wouldnot see her again. Get a second opinion(another T) and legal advice and build a support network that can help you file the complaint and have a great support team to help you through the process and the outcome.

I do not know you, but I have a lot of compassion for you and your situation. I help you heal and move on from this...
  #85  
Old Jan 30, 2015, 10:55 PM
SkyscraperMeow SkyscraperMeow is offline
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Well I don't know about IG, but I'd be confused by a lot of the feedback here. In one breath she's being told to take stock of her feelings, terminate with her therapist and take control of the situation. In the next, she's being warned not to 'burn bridges'.

Some bridges need to be torched. Ones that lead to sloppy manipulative so called therapists should be burned until there's not a cinder left.

All that really matters is that you, IG, do what you need to do for yourself. To be honest, you don't really need 7 -8 pages of forum feedback to make this decision. You know what to do. So do it, and then find a therapist worthy of you.

Oh and PS, I don't want to throw another spanner in the works but the relationship you've described with your therapist up until this point does not comprise love. Love does not leave you anxious, desperate, clinging, confused and afraid. Ever.

When someone loves you, you will feel comforted, secure and safe. What you had with your therapist was dysfunctional attachment clothed in the trappings of care.
  #86  
Old Jan 30, 2015, 11:49 PM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow View Post
Well I don't know about IG, but I'd be confused by a lot of the feedback here. In one breath she's being told to take stock of her feelings, terminate with her therapist and take control of the situation. In the next, she's being warned not to 'burn bridges'.

Some bridges need to be torched. Ones that lead to sloppy manipulative so called therapists should be burned until there's not a cinder left.

All that really matters is that you, IG, do what you need to do for yourself. To be honest, you don't really need 7 -8 pages of forum feedback to make this decision. You know what to do. So do it, and then find a therapist worthy of you.

Oh and PS, I don't want to throw another spanner in the works but the relationship you've described with your therapist up until this point does not comprise love. Love does not leave you anxious, desperate, clinging, confused and afraid. Ever.

When someone loves you, you will feel comforted, secure and safe. What you had with your therapist was dysfunctional attachment clothed in the trappings of care.
Thank you, it is very confusing. But it's not that simple - I don't know what to do. In one breath I think I do and in the next it's gone and I am totally flummoxed.

A person with BPD like me can - unintentionally - be incredibly emotionally manipulative and really tap into people's feelings. I don't mean to do it but I think I did, in this case.

Even my friend and colleague, who read the exchange between me and my ex therapist said despite wanting to slap my therapist for being such a ****, that the way I worded my messages was very borderline. The bit where I said there was 'too much space between us' and 'I know it doesn't matter to you' - she said I was responding to my ex T as if she was an ex girlfriend, and I think she has a valid point. I don't have a realistic view of this therapist - a fair chunk of that is the therapist's own fault in a way, for having no boundaries, but also it's my fault too because I'm a big girl and should have realized there were boundaries, even if they were invisable.
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Been trying hard not to get into trouble, but I
I got a war in my mind
~ Lana Del Rey

How many cares one loses when one decides not to be something but to be someone
~ Coco Chanel

One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman
~ Simone de Beauvoir
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  #87  
Old Jan 30, 2015, 11:57 PM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow View Post
Oh and PS, I don't want to throw another spanner in the works but the relationship you've described with your therapist up until this point does not comprise love. Love does not leave you anxious, desperate, clinging, confused and afraid. Ever.

When someone loves you, you will feel comforted, secure and safe. What you had with your therapist was dysfunctional attachment clothed in the trappings of care.
No. With respect - nobody knows what goes on between two people in a connection apart from them. It most definitely was love, in the past. I have known great love from my amazing mother and I know how to recognize it.

It is true to say it is not love now between us though. Absolutely. It faded out and became something else.

Dunno why, because I've been on the planet long enough to know it's not because of my jeans size or whether my hair's perfect. It can only be because once we fostered intimacy, she shrank away from the raw person I was, and that's quite depressing really. Not sure what to do with it. But hopefully I can just forget about her.
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Been trying hard not to get into trouble, but I
I got a war in my mind
~ Lana Del Rey

How many cares one loses when one decides not to be something but to be someone
~ Coco Chanel

One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman
~ Simone de Beauvoir
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  #88  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 09:44 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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IG, my wish is that you can put away self-recrimination around what happened and see the blame where it belongs--with the therapist. It was solely her responsibility to keep treatment on track and to take stock, get her own consultation and take care of business if the relationship went awry. You're doing the job she can't handle by severing this.

You even said there wasn't a 100 percent consensus about your diagnosis, so I wish you could put aside that label. I do know that you're gracious here and acknowledge our feedback, etc. I appreciate that.

I've meet a few of the women from TELL and a couple of others in person recovering from harmful therapy. Despite extremely intelligent, competent women,they found harmful therapy extremely disorienting and confusing. Likewise are reports of Deborah Lott's In Session, Yvonne Bates' Shouldn't I be Feeling Better by Now, Dorothy Tennov's Psychotherapy, the Hazardous Cure.

You seem to have far more clarity and composure than I did when I first fled. Bad therapy has all the earmarks of cult brainwashing. Untangling it isn't easy for the strongest person.
Thanks for this!
stopdog
  #89  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 11:55 AM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Originally Posted by missbella View Post
My complaint process was a clash of the titans, with the therapist telling lies and twisting my words.

It's strategy.

What was the outcome of your complaint missbella? What was the complaint?
  #90  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 12:42 PM
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NowhereUSA NowhereUSA is offline
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Regardless of diagnosis, the therapist remains the authority. If she is incapable to dealing with someone of a certain diagnosis or with particular traits, then it is her responsibility to recognize and refer out if needed. Furthermore, it is her responsibility to define boundaries and to enforce them in a way that is both effective and skillful.

Your responsibility is to focus on whatever your goal is with regards to therapy. The boundaries you learn to respect are the ones that are clearly defined and yet, she should be skillful to redirect you when you encroach on them.

As for the confusing bit, it's one thing to walk away, it's another to walk away with a fireball behind you because you just blew something up. In this case, I think the most effective thing to do is to walk away without the fireball. Don't leave the door open, don't be passive aggressive, don't find a way to ruin her. Just walk away.

Then, from there, find another T and process what happened. Perhaps a complaint needs to be filed. Maybe not. Having someone with whom to check the facts will be helpful.

A diagnosis is useful in some ways and in other ways, it's utterly useless. Don't define yourself by what "BPD people do." Define yourself by what you do and who *you* are and look for a T who is going to treat you as an individual and not a diagnosis.
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  #91  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 04:10 PM
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idk what else to say but hugs. you're doing well coping with the situation, i know it's really hard.
  #92  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 06:45 PM
missbella missbella is offline
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What was the outcome of your complaint missbella? What was the complaint?
Though the co-therapists' real error was anger, insults and threats when I tried to leave group therapy, the only categorical accusation open to me was failure to discontinue therapy and refer.

My complaint against the psychiatric nurse (something about you makes me want to kick you) was not even processed, only leaving me to conclude it's fine for them to lash out with a desire to injure clients. Wonder if I'd had been arrested if I similarly had lashed out at her.

I lost my grievance with the psychologist despite his contradictory testimony and asserting my state-of-mind that he'd have to be clairvoyant to know. This makes me wonder just what is substandard in the psychology profession if insults, scolding and attempts to prolong treatment is approved practice.

PS I'm pretty bookish, soft spoken and if anything, excessively polite.
  #93  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 07:09 PM
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Do you know if you're allowed to make recordings and emails part of the complaint process?
  #94  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 07:29 PM
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i used emails in my complaint. but they investigated my hard drive bc of it.
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  #95  
Old Jan 31, 2015, 09:17 PM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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PS I'm pretty bookish, soft spoken and if anything, excessively polite.
Uh-oh. I would probably describe myself the same way, except i can get loud. But people are always - and i mean freakin always like "who-th asked them anyways always" telling me i am angry. Sweet lil ol me - imagine that?! I can identify with the screaming teenagers who get sent to horse camp on dr phil, but my mother would have skinned me alive before i ever even thought of raising my voice to her. If she didnt like the question?? - i learned to shut it. So excessively polite can have feelings behind it, even if we cant really feel them anymore. They leak out. Like mayo on a sandwich. Yeah, i just had mayo on a sandwich...
  #96  
Old Feb 01, 2015, 12:45 AM
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Ididitmyway Ididitmyway is offline
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Do you know if you're allowed to make recordings and emails part of the complaint process?
My email communications with my therapist and the recordings of his phone messages were a part of my complaint. They served as the evidence to back up my claims. I don't know if the board will accept audio recordings if there is no prove that it was done with the therapist's permission. I knew someone who had recorded conversations with her therapist with his permission, but the recordings were not accepted by the board as evidence, I suspect, because she couldn't prove that she obtained the permission. All my emails and voice mails were accepted as evidence, because those were messages he left himself.
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  #97  
Old Feb 01, 2015, 09:42 PM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by missbella View Post
IG, my wish is that you can put away self-recrimination around what happened and see the blame where it belongs--with the therapist. It was solely her responsibility to keep treatment on track and to take stock, get her own consultation and take care of business if the relationship went awry. You're doing the job she can't handle by severing this.

You even said there wasn't a 100 percent consensus about your diagnosis, so I wish you could put aside that label. I do know that you're gracious here and acknowledge our feedback, etc. I appreciate that.

I've meet a few of the women from TELL and a couple of others in person recovering from harmful therapy. Despite extremely intelligent, competent women,they found harmful therapy extremely disorienting and confusing. Likewise are reports of Deborah Lott's In Session, Yvonne Bates' Shouldn't I be Feeling Better by Now, Dorothy Tennov's Psychotherapy, the Hazardous Cure.

You seem to have far more clarity and composure than I did when I first fled. Bad therapy has all the earmarks of cult brainwashing. Untangling it isn't easy for the strongest person.
Thank you. No, I would like to be clear that I don't for a minute feel that people who get caught up in bad therapy are weak or not strong. It's like any other form of abuse. Countless intelligent, astute and otherwise self-possessed women still find themselves in abusive domestic relationships. It is nothing to do with weakness on their part, and everything to do with an abuser being an abuser.

The only thing is - I am not sure enough of my own position when it comes to whether it was all bad therapy or not. Or course chunks of it were, for sure. But I am uneasy at throwing the baby out with the bathwater, uneasy at writing off a human being for failing to keep their human flaws under control all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NowhereUSA View Post
Regardless of diagnosis, the therapist remains the authority. If she is incapable to dealing with someone of a certain diagnosis or with particular traits, then it is her responsibility to recognize and refer out if needed. Furthermore, it is her responsibility to define boundaries and to enforce them in a way that is both effective and skillful.

Your responsibility is to focus on whatever your goal is with regards to therapy. The boundaries you learn to respect are the ones that are clearly defined and yet, she should be skillful to redirect you when you encroach on them.

As for the confusing bit, it's one thing to walk away, it's another to walk away with a fireball behind you because you just blew something up. In this case, I think the most effective thing to do is to walk away without the fireball. Don't leave the door open, don't be passive aggressive, don't find a way to ruin her. Just walk away.

Then, from there, find another T and process what happened. Perhaps a complaint needs to be filed. Maybe not. Having someone with whom to check the facts will be helpful.

A diagnosis is useful in some ways and in other ways, it's utterly useless. Don't define yourself by what "BPD people do." Define yourself by what you do and who *you* are and look for a T who is going to treat you as an individual and not a diagnosis.
I don't actually define myself by what BPD people do. However, it is a useful tool for understanding some of my own thought processes driven by intense and unbearable emotions.

This T did not treat me like a diagnosis. She was reluctant to pathologize any of my behaviours. It is the new psychologist who has diagnosed me, all the while taking great pains to stress that she is not a fan of labels but they are needed in public healthcare to gain access to appropriate treatment. Fine by me. I don't care. The way I look at labels is they are simply useful tags which that act as a form of shorthand to allude to a commonality in some way, whether that is labelling myself as a horse lover, or as borderline, or as a queer woman. Personally, I never feel that labels are any more than that - I never feel they are the sum total of a person.

For me, the diagnosis does not mean some sort of damaged goods - it simply means my emotions spike and drop at dizzying breakneck speed and means I have an emotional obstacle course to navigate, which then leads to chaos and problems, and some misguided attempts at solving the problems which leads to more chaos. As I have said before, I am pretty optimistic it's a transient thing, that it will go into remission.

Sorry! That was a bit of a rant about bpd and labels! #getsoffsoapbox
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Been trying hard not to get into trouble, but I
I got a war in my mind
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How many cares one loses when one decides not to be something but to be someone
~ Coco Chanel

One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman
~ Simone de Beauvoir
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