[BudFox]

Have come across a number of things lately that talk about how people with childhood attachment trauma/stress learn, as a coping pattern, to suppress themselves in order to meet attachment needs.

If we have a stressed, depressed, or absent mother or caregiver, we learn to be concerned with their needs first in order to keep the relationship alive and to survive.

I bring this up because I have seen in this forum and others many people talk about suppressing feelings for their T, if those feelings are intense or uncomfortable, because they fear the T will bail on them.

In my case, I dared to tell my T that I was in love with her (or so it seemed anyway). And in the end it led to termination, which destroyed me. But with my long time partner, I have done the opposite -- shut down parts of myself in order to preserve a very dysfunctional relationship.

[stopdog]

I don't think it is worth it to suppress oneself to preserve an attachment with a therapist. I may be misunderstanding what is meant here by suppress and attachment.

[JustShakey]

It's not really about the therapist - it's a reenactment of early attachment patterns. Continuously getting negative responses or no response from your caregiver when you express you needs will teach you that those needs are unacceptable and so you suppress them to gain the approval of your caregiver - to preserve the attachment.

[guilloche]

BudFox, I'm so sorry that your T bailed on you. That's the big huge problem with therapy, isn't it? We're expected to be open and honest about all our stuff, our feelings and reactions. But, therapists are humans, and they screw up, and sometimes they end up screwing up majorly and dumping clients. I've been there too (different reasons, but it was still a therapist screwing up) and I know a lot of people here have been.

It really sucks. I was reading an article that said research shows that after being laid off from a job, people have trust problems with their next employer... for the next TEN YEARS!

That makes sense... but I wonder why no one is doing that research with regards to therapy. Getting kicked out of therapy is a type of trauma all by itself sometimes, and sure seems to cause more trust issues and more problems with healing if you continue with someone else. Basically, you end up paying for what the last therapist did

I think personally, if a T is going to terminate - that's an admission that they're not able to help and haven't been effective, and they should be required to give you a partial refund. Maybe just the last 4 sessions?

Sorry to ramble, I'm probably way off track from what you wanted to talk about... just feeling blah here today too... and this is a particular sore point for me!

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

I too have been thinking about this in therapy, and I have come to the conclusion (perhaps wrongly of course) that this might be a manifestation of assuming that your own happiness and value depends on others liking you.

It might be debatable if someone's like and approval is worthwhile if you cannot be true to yourself to obtain it.

With T you are free to have a relationship that would be difficult for you in real life. Your T may like you or may not, it does not much matter if you can discuss the reasons why you may crave approval from people even at the cost of not being yourself.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by JustShakey

It's not really about the therapist - it's a reenactment of early attachment patterns. Continuously getting negative responses or no response from your caregiver when you express you needs will teach you that those needs are unacceptable and so you suppress them to gain the approval of your caregiver - to preserve the attachment.

Righty-o, well said. That is what i am referring to. It's basically a survival adaptation, because if the caregiver is not sufficiently attuned or available, the child will do whatever is necessary to keep the relationship in tact.

Then later in life this insecure attachment pattern becomes dysfunctional, and I've talked to people online who are seemingly re-enacting this pattern with a therapist -- i.e. withholding feelings if they sense that expressing them will jeopardize the relationship.

[iheartjacques]

I suppose if your T can recognise that pattern, they can change the dynamic. Or you can find another T that you can just be yourself with. A good T should be able to take the person that you are and not put expectations on your behaviour (apart from basic courtesy and respect - no spitting on them or punching them up lol)

[iheartjacques]

A good T should also expect that there'll be some kind of transference and some kind of 'love' or mutual respect for getting some work done and not run away from it but to turn it into a positive for you, to model a safe, respectful relationship for you?

[musinglizzy]

I have tried really hard to appear "normal" and appear to not feel dependent on my T...but I think the past couple of months I've blown my cover. Yes. I'm attached to her. But I felt so ashamed of that I did my best not to show it. Well, when she started canceling sessions because of personal issues, I am quite sure I didn't hide it very well. And I know now that I didn't, because she told me during that time she canceled 99% of her sessions, but did not cancel mine when she could help it. Or at least tried to reschedule. I was feeling a bit unstable and it's obvious to me now that she knew that. It was so exhausting to try to continue to maintain the façade of being completely independent, and unattached to her. But I am. If I had to label it, I'd say its a maternal sort of attachment I have. But I also believe she helped foster that attachment, probably knowingly....but for the reason of gaining my trust. I actually think that's a relatively normal thing to do. But I remember coming here even before I saw her for the first time...and asking, even before meeting her or connecting by anything other than Email, what I could do to avoid that attachment. I was afraid it would happen, and it did. No, I don't talk to her about it, nor do I wish to, because I'm quite sure she would distance herself further. I'm quite sure she probably knows, but it's really not something I want to talk about at this time.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by guilloche

BudFox, I'm so sorry that your T bailed on you. That's the big huge problem with therapy, isn't it? We're expected to be open and honest about all our stuff, our feelings and reactions. But, therapists are humans, and they screw up, and sometimes they end up screwing up majorly and dumping clients. I've been there too (different reasons, but it was still a therapist screwing up) and I know a lot of people here have been.

T's are indeed human and they cannot always be perfect. And yes therapy can itself be traumatic, especially poorly handled termination, and this is not trivial. I see my own experience as an indictment of therapy as a whole, as much as a failure of my own T.

Now I am stuck in a catch-22 where subsequent T's have trouble acknowledging the harm done and pile on to my distress by reflexively siding with previous T and invalidating my position and experience. It's almost like there's an "omertà" thing going on. And then I start doubting my own perceptions and reality and start to blame myself.

Yea, a refund would be nice. I'd settle for a direct acknowledgment of the harm done and an apology.

[Burned123]

Originally Posted by BudFox

T's are indeed human and they cannot always be perfect. And yes therapy can itself be traumatic, especially poorly handled termination, and this is not trivial. I see my own experience as an indictment of therapy as a whole, as much as a failure of my own T.

Now I am stuck in a catch-22 where subsequent T's have trouble acknowledging the harm done and pile on to my distress by reflexively siding with previous T and invalidating my position and experience. It's almost like there's an "omertà" thing going on. And then I start doubting my own perceptions and reality and start to blame myself.

Yea, a refund would be nice. I'd settle for a direct acknowledgment of the harm done and an apology.

BudFox I can totally relate to you! My T inappropriately and unethically terminated me, and I believe I know the reason. After four years we were quite close and if she was honest, I believe that she was as attached to me as I was to her. I told her she was like my best friend. She didn't agree on a financial situation that I had made and I got mad and cancelled our next appointment. The following day she sent me a letter telling me that she could not continue to support me in decisions that I was making that were self destructive. Come on...we're talking about $140.00 loan payment for a car for my son. The part that hurts is she didn't offer me referrals, appropriate closure or any further contact. I would give up almost anything...including my pending disciplinary action for her to admit that she screwed up and the hurt she has caused me. I have abandonment issues and she seriously exasperated them. I have spent over 50 hours with a new T trying to fix the damage that she has caused. I hate it! I want validation that she screwed up from her...not from everyone else. I have a hard time realizing that I will never get that validation from her!

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by ManOfConstantSorrow

I too have been thinking about this in therapy, and I have come to the conclusion (perhaps wrongly of course) that this might be a manifestation of assuming that your own happiness and value depends on others liking you.

It might be debatable if someone's like and approval is worthwhile if you cannot be true to yourself to obtain it.

With T you are free to have a relationship that would be difficult for you in real life. Your T may like you or may not, it does not much matter if you can discuss the reasons why you may crave approval from people even at the cost of not being yourself.

But then why would one have this tendency in the first place -- needing external approval in order to feel ok? Seems to me it has to be insecure attachment in early childhood leading to weak sense of self. The same pattern that leads one to suppress their own needs, including the need to express true feelings to a T or about a T -- to keep attachments in tact.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by iheartjacques

A good T should also expect that there'll be some kind of transference and some kind of 'love' or mutual respect for getting some work done and not run away from it but to turn it into a positive for you, to model a safe, respectful relationship for you?

Yes true, but I have read of some people who had a T who did all that, and the clients still would not divulge their feelings for T (which included love and attraction) for fear of losing the relationship. And I was just wondering about the link btwn that behavior and early attachment issues.

In my case my T did do all that, I took the risk to tell her my true feelings about her, and after a while the relationship did end with nothing really resolved and many wounds open. For someone with serious attachment and relationship problems this was a "welcome to hell" moment.

If I'd held back some of m intense feelings for T, it likely would not have ended.

[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by BudFox

But then why would one have this tendency in the first place -- needing external approval in order to feel ok? Seems to me it has to be insecure attachment in early childhood leading to weak sense of self. The same pattern that leads one to suppress their own needs, including the need to express true feelings to a T or about a T -- to keep attachments in tact.

A young child needs external approval. They internalize it as they grow until they reach a point where they are secure in themselves and won't be easily thrown by outside disapproval.
In my case I had a mother who needed a lot of external approval and she was sick when I was a baby and young child so she wasn't at her best. I provided a lot of her validation needs at the expense of my own.

Eta: I actually think it's a good idea to hold back in the T relationship. I mean, you wouldn't go headfirst into any other relationship in the same way that many people seem to want to do with Ts. Over time the feelings will come out, but you risk overwhelming the relationship if you try to let it all out at once. It's the same principle as breaking the bed springs by jumping all crazy on the bed.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Burned123

BudFox I can totally relate to you! My T inappropriately and unethically terminated me, and I believe I know the reason. After four years we were quite close and if she was honest, I believe that she was as attached to me as I was to her. I told her she was like my best friend. She didn't agree on a financial situation that I had made and I got mad and cancelled our next appointment. The following day she sent me a letter telling me that she could not continue to support me in decisions that I was making that were self destructive. Come on...we're talking about $140.00 loan payment for a car for my son. The part that hurts is she didn't offer me referrals, appropriate closure or any further contact. I would give up almost anything...including my pending disciplinary action for her to admit that she screwed up and the hurt she has caused me. I have abandonment issues and she seriously exasperated them. I have spent over 50 hours with a new T trying to fix the damage that she has caused. I hate it! I want validation that she screwed up from her...not from everyone else. I have a hard time realizing that I will never get that validation from her!

Well I have to say my T did nothing as bad as that. That is terrible what you describe. So you filed a complaint?

Your post reminds me of something I have been reading and thinking about… that therapy is supposed to be a safe place where one can have a chance at a new way of relating to others, and this is based on the premise that the T has done sufficient inner work to make this feasible.

But when the T's own vulnerabilities and issues get triggered, as perhaps happened with you and definitely happened with me, then things can break down. And the one who really suffers is the client because they are exposed and vulnerable as a result of the inherent power imbalance. So once again, I ask whether the basic concept of therapy is the issue.

I guess we are on a tangent here given my original post...

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by JustShakey

Eta: I actually think it's a good idea to hold back in the T relationship. I mean, you wouldn't go headfirst into any other relationship in the same way that many people seem to want to do with Ts. Over time the feelings will come out, but you risk overwhelming the relationship if you try to let it all out at once. It's the same principle as breaking the bed springs by jumping all crazy on the bed.

Isn't it the T's job to handle your feelings, even if they are overwhelming? And isn't the point of therapy that you are not required to manage your feelings in the same way as a real relationship?

I see your point, just not sure what is appropriate in the T relationship, since it is like no other.

With my original post this I was thinking more of the case where clients hold back their feelings for months or even years, out of fear.

Originally Posted by BudFox

Isn't it the T's job to handle your feelings, even if they are overwhelming? And isn't the point of therapy that you are not required to manage your feelings in the same way as a real relationship?

I see your point, just not sure what is appropriate in the T relationship, since it is like no other.

I tend to agree with you. That is what therapy should be like. It isn't always, for various reasons, but it should - and it certainly can be. I only have positive experiences of doing that. Sometimes painful, always very difficult, but in the end quite positive.

In any other relationship I think it is much the best and healthiest option to not be open about any feelings, positive or negative, towards the other party. (That is what is best for me, to be clear. I have no opinions about what is best for other people in their relationships.)

[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Isn't it the T's job to handle your feelings, even if they are overwhelming? And isn't the point of therapy that you are not required to manage your feelings in the same way as a real relationship?


I see your point, just not sure what is appropriate in the T relationship, since it is like no other.


With my original post this I was thinking more of the case where clients hold back their feelings for months or even years, out of fear.

Of course, but they are human, and they can be overwhelmed. And part of therapy is learning appropriate expression of emotion.
By no means should you have to hold back the emotion for months or years, but letting it all go at once can be detrimental to your therapy - and yourself. Often people are very destabilized by letting go of everything at once. It's just too much.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by JustShakey

Of course, but they are human, and they can be overwhelmed. And part of therapy is learning appropriate expression of emotion.
By no means should you have to hold back the emotion for months or years, but letting it all go at once can be detrimental to your therapy - and yourself. Often people are very destabilized by letting go of everything at once. It's just too much.

True Ts are human and can be overwhelmed. But a competent T should not be overwhelmed, it's their job to handle it, unless of course safety is threatened.

And if we let the T off the hook for being human, then nobody is accountable. And this leaves me with basic questions about the legitimacy of therapy. If the process can be undermined by the T's own insecurities or vulnerabilities in the face of a client's intense feelings, and the client is harmed as a result, then you have something of a trap.

This what happened to me last year, it was pretty traumatic, and subsequent Ts largely advocated for ex-T, using the same she-is-only-human reasoning. And my response to that is ok fine she is human, she is not a bad person, I actually think quite highly of her, but the outcome is still client harm.

Agree about letting go all at once being detrimental. Seems to be a core concept in trauma treatment -- careful management of catharsis.

[granite1]

this is why I try to never have any attachment to my T and if I do find my self caring as I often do I never express it at all. and as long as I keep it to myself it tends to go away for a while and doesn't get all blown out of proportion putting my T in any uncomfortable situations that will lead to termination . sometimes it is like walking on a tight rope but it does go away