[SecretGarden]

I know that there are places that I feel I wish to go with therapeutic assistance. It has been recognised that I work hard but there is a bit of resistance.

Can you recognise resistance or boundaries that YOU have put up to your therapy now or in the past (or in the future if you can site that) and how do you work on this and can you tell of your successes?

Wow....i was just thinking of this.

I relied on the therapist it try to see when barriers are there...but have also been told that barriers are in place for a reason...that being you aren't ready to make this change yet, and to trust yourself to understand that when you are really ready to make the changes....you will make them.

[SecretGarden]

Yes, but should that not been seen by yourself and/or the therapist?
I think that if we can not see them we can be enlightened by our T perhaps which at least brings it to the forefront.

I do understand that part of this is also being ready to hear of these things... but sometimes they need to be confronted in order to progress with therapy... at least I think so.

Thank you Ipse... Your points are valid... I am just meandering... If one is not ready... that sure makes it difficult.

[MissCharlotte]

Good thread.

I think it's natural for our unconscious to put up barriers and resistance. Even when we are aware of these obstacles, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be easy to overcome, because the unconscious still works on us. And sometimes, it's a conscious choice not to deal with it.

I have become aware, through my conversations with T of many barriers/resistance to knowing. For example, when we are "deep in it" and T asks me a challenging question (usually a why question) I often say I don't know. T has made me aware of how often I employ this barrier or use this resistance to moving deeper.

I remember the first time he told me, "You go to I don't know too much." I was islightly nsulted and told him that I wasn't doing it deliberately! I felt I had to defend my position....Now, when I feel like saying I don't know, I try to push myself to dig deeper and see if i can come up with something a little more. It may be, that I don't know is the answer right then but often I can come up with more substantial thought and sometimes it's a breakthrough or insight!

Oh, there are plenty of barriers that we build to keep ourselves from knowing ourselves, aren't there?

Yes...i think that if the barriers are too much...and nothing is happening...the therapist is there precisely to point it out.

...but in the end...it seems that the client needs to be ready to make the change...because the therapist can say all he/she wants...but the client needs to make a connection somewhere in there....else....the change will not "take" hold...or at least the barrier will not be seen....

in the end...sometimes the barriers have been in place so long that you need someone to really tell you....but how effective they can be is another issue.

if they have been in place too long....i really am not sure one can see the barriers.

it is a very intriguing topic

.....my first novel was all about perceptions....and how do you "get" out of something when you don't know you are in it. it ended kind of badly when someone wasn't able to get out their false "perceptions"

[sunrise]

I think one barrier is not feeling safe enough with your T to divulge certain things. I work on this by working on the therapeutic alliance and building trust through getting to know T better, sharing less difficult things and getting good responses from him, etc. If there is something I really want to share and can't, I may write about it repeatedly in my journal and even practice reading outloud about it, just to get my mouth used to saying the words. My big success with this was recounting recovered trauma memories from my childhood with T during an EMDR session. I wanted to share these memories but they were too "new" to me and I didn't know him well enough. We had to back off for several weeks before I could do it.

I agree with Ipse that when you are ready to make the changes you will make them. Only then will you be motivated to work hard and "do it." One needs to be patient with oneself and hope the T is too. I remember in the midst of my not being able to share the above trauma with T, he said something that was so reassuring to me, "I respect your ambivalence about telling me." I loved that. We would also talk about why I couldn't tell him, and he would have answers for each of my reasons. For example, one reason I had was that the memories were not fun ones, and I didn't want to inflict this painful stuff on him. And he reassured me that he was in a really good place in his life right now, he was very strong, that he could take whatever I had to tell, that he had heard horrendous stories from many clients. All this helped me. So did his repeated self disclosure, even about little things, so that I felt like I had something of him--it wasn't just the sunny show, sunny on display all alone in T's office. It was sunny and T together.

Another sort of barrier: sometimes there are contradictions in my actions/thoughts and T tries to get me to confront those. He can use kind of a battering style of questioning. He's done it only twice with me, and the first time he finally backed me into a corner when he got to the root of the issue (which was "I'm scared") and I felt just like a little huddled mass on the couch, finally at the end of my answers to his "why? why" why?" questions. It was kind of intense and he has done it only once since then, and I handled it better.

Ipse, it it totally cool that you write novels!!!

[onebody]

ROFL I do the 'I don't know ' thing with my T too!
She says back, 'I think you DO know!!!'
Arrrgh.
I usu blank out at that point.
A little while back I tried to say something, and my T pushed some, and I'm not even sure what it was about anymore, but I got SO angry and had to leave. Angry at myself, I kept saying somethin like, 'your not allowed to talk' or some such thing, I was furious with myself somehow I guess.
I am no spring chicken, I have some doubts that I will ever get past my barriers and be free
Anyhow, I wish you best of luck.

[lauren_helene]

I have tons of resistance. I say 'I don't know a lot'. Lately, I've been trying to come back w/ a list in hand, and say well last time we talked about X and I thought about it and feel X.

It took me almost a year to talk about the sexual trauma in my history. I have never trusted anyone with this information other than one boyfriend and my current husband and even he I didn't share all of the details.

In fact, the night I told T about it, I stopped at a local martini place and had two martinis. This made it easier but I wish I could talk freely. I did tell T that night that I had two martinis. Since I'm not an alcoholic I guess it wasn't an issue.

That was one of our best sessions. I was so embarrassed.

As far as successes, I try to gage improvement in my outside life. Outside of the session. I have seen some improvement, at least in the job/boss arena.

Almeda, it took me a year also, to speak of the unspeakable! It's now 2 years and I still struggle. I too have times when I just cant find the words. I don't say "I don't know", I don't say anything. The words get "stuck" and I just sit there staring and feel completely inadequate at the end of the session. I have found that writing things down and giving it to T to read has been helpful. I think there will always be some resistance there though!!

I'm begining to see myself puts up a barrier to life FULL STOP!

I told T yesterday that I see now that I am so damaged I cannot do live like some folk, then a tear dropped then T said and this upsets you? and Immediately folded arms and said NO!

Then I leant forward to check the waste paper basket was there, moved it a bit so I could see it. Its the oppersite end of the room to where T sits, and T said that bin stands for me?

I shrugged. I awoke this morning with thoughts of using, thought about what folk in AA say about what kept you sober yesterday won't keep you sober today, and their using a Higher power to lean on and my inner rage at using any god or higher power and wondered if I could put T in its place, but alas, I can't cross the river to where she stands.

I just can't make that leap across to feel/bond witn anything other than my damamged self.

I feel like an hour glass, no sooner do I think I have hold of her then the glass is tipped and away she spills.

What part of me needs to know that she can be trusted? What part of me won't listen? What part of me runs my life? What part of me doesn't get it? What part of me will I know allow? What part of me holds this resistence??? I feel like the 1812 overture is playing and the armies are at war and no one is listening to no one and all they do is fight and no one wants to allow enought time/risk to see if things maybe different now..

[Perna]

My T disallowed the "I don't know" response and gave me the time I needed to "know what I know" and express it; she taught me to "check my heart." I have honesty and courage despite being so fearful of my shadow so that all worked :-)

I was getting frustrated because my T said I was an emotional thief, like a kid at a picnic all laid out and I'd wait until I thought she wasn't looking and steal food off her table :-) Lots of my T's analogies made sense to me but many of them weren't something I felt I could do something about. When we'd be talking she said I was like someone driving down the freeway then I'd suddenly take the exit :-) but loop around and come back on a bit later. LOL. I could understand that one and got better at recognizing when I did it and eventually could stop exiting, just slow down longingly :-)

The best breakthrough I had was I was writing cards and letters and sending them to my T every week, for about 5+ years, it helped me feel connected, especially when she was away. My T and I finally talked about it and how I had this "fantasy" relationship with her where she had no input and then the pressure wasn't so intense in therapy to respond to her there, where she was each week. I finally decided to do a 6 week "test" where I wouldn't write her at all, would just talk to her/be with her in therapy. Part of the period she was going to be away too, so that was going to be doubly hard. But it worked; I started "seeing" her and therapy for what they were and how they were here-and-now, "real" things whereas all my inside-the-head stuff and writing, etc. were not real interactions of any sort. I got much better at being present and being with my T and my problems/sadnesses/joys/anxiety and saw how dealing with them when they arose in real time made them not a problem anymore.

[SecretGarden]

Sister... Do you think that these challenges are in affect a challenge to the conscious?

Ipse... This was interesting. "how do you "get" out of something when you don't know you are in it.' That would be the therapists role to point it out as the patient is ready. I sometimes wonder when "ready" is. Whether a patient is ready or not may need some challenges. If not challenged we (I) might be as quick to change.

[SecretGarden]

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sunrise said:
I think one barrier is not feeling safe enough with your T to divulge certain things. I work on this by working on the therapeutic alliance and building trust through getting to know T better, sharing less difficult things and getting good responses from him, etc. If there is something I really want to share and can't, I may write about it repeatedly in my journal and even practice reading outloud about it, just to get my mouth used to saying the words.

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You have mentioned EMDR sessions several times before. Can you expand on what they are?

I also agree with sharing a little and finding the trust there allows us to expand our trust level. I am thinking of getting a new journal as I have not journaled in some time. It may help me bring out some things of my own.

I think I am also thinking that there are things that I know are barriers and am working on those now. It is not easy and that is a matter of facing my own music ...so to speak.

[Quote]. Only then will you be motivated to work hard and "do it." One needs to be patient with oneself and hope the T is too.

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[Quote] the memories were not fun ones, and I didn't want to inflict this painful stuff on him.

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I suppose I have not questioned this therapists strength in taking in my story but I am not sure of hearing y anger yet..at him though I have expressed that I want to express it..lol.

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My thought is that -it wasn't just the sunny show, sunny on display all alone in T's office. It was sunny and T together.

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Nice thought.... I like that alot... for me and my pdoc too. :-) We work TOGETHER.

I have found the battering thing too and that can be rough. As I said to my pdoc this last time and have before... I would rather that he not zing me at the end of the session as I would like time to counteract or address or answer it in session.

[SecretGarden]

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onebody said:
I am no spring chicken, I have some doubts that I will ever get past my barriers and be free
Anyhow, I wish you best of luck.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Thanks and welcome to the board. I am no spring chicken either though not ready to roll over yet. I have the experience of not being sure what is going on from time to time and then I try and sort it out.

Kindergal... Congrats on getting it out. I know that getting things out can be difficult. To start...it went mighty slow... sometimes one word after another ... slowly. I also agree that there will be barriers... as otherwise... MY therapy would be much easier... or maybe I would be less inclined to need it.

[MissCharlotte]

Secret said:

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Sister... Do you think that these challenges are in affect a challenge to the conscious?

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Well, yes I suppose they do challenge the conscious. I think that challenge is reciprocal in nature. What I mean is the unconscious challenges the conscious (to clam up) and the conscious, once aware, challenges the unconscious (to let go). Does that make sense to you?

It's a constant battle we fight with ourselves to reach deeper and deeper inside, or stay further and further away!

[sunrise]

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Perna said:
I finally decided to do a 6 week "test" where I wouldn't write her at all, would just talk to her/be with her in therapy. Part of the period she was going to be away too, so that was going to be doubly hard. But it worked; I started "seeing" her and therapy for what they were and how they were here-and-now, "real" things whereas all my inside-the-head stuff and writing, etc. were not real interactions of any sort.

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That is a great achievement. I think it is for just such a reason that many T's don't allow their clients to write to them, but insist on sharing by talking.

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the memories were not fun ones, and I didn't want to inflict this painful stuff on him. </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I suppose I have not questioned this therapists strength in taking in my story

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</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
SG, it's interesting, because when I told T I didn't want to inflict my horrible memories on him, he told me he had heard that so many times before from clients. So I guess it's common to want to watch out for one's T and be protective of him.

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You have mentioned EMDR sessions several times before. Can you expand on what they are?

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EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) is used to resolve past trauma and help you get unstuck. You recall and share the traumatic memories with your T while undergoing alternate stimulation of the brain--first the right side, then left, then right, etc. This is supposed to help the memory get unstuck from one side of the brain and be let free so you can continue processing it. I'm sure I'm garbling this explanation. There are different ways of doing the alternate stimulation of the brain: flicking your eyes right and left to follow a moving object, alternating sounds in either ear with headphones, alternating electronic pulses on either side of your body, etc. My T uses the latter method. I put one of these electronic gizmos in each shoe and then I can adjust the alternating pulses with a dial so I feel them clearly but not too strongly. I find the pulses very comforting. There is also a verbal protocol the T goes through with you as you share the memories that involves rating both positive and negative cognitive affect before and after the EMDR. It's pretty cool. I think I have done it about 3-4 times. It really helped with some recovered abuse memories from my childhood. And also we did one session on infancy. It can be exhausting and emotional, but can also be quite rational (depends on the individual). I feel so good after EMDR, but I usually go crash and sleep for hours. The memories are much less traumatic afterwards. I can talk about them or recall them without getting traumatized all over again. T says EMDR is the fastest way to resolve trauma that he knows.

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http://www.emdr.com/q&a.htm
1. What is EMDR?
Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) is a psychotherapy treatment that was originally designed to alleviate the distress associated with traumatic memories (Shapiro, 1989a, 1989b). Shapiro’s (2001) Adaptive Information Processing model posits that EMDR facilitates the accessing and processing of traumatic memories to bring these to an adaptive resolution. After successful treatment with EMDR, affective distress is relieved, negative beliefs are reformulated, and physiological arousal is reduced. During EMDR the client attends to emotionally disturbing material in brief sequential doses while simultaneously focusing on an external stimulus. Therapist directed lateral eye movements are the most commonly used external stimulus but a variety of other stimuli including hand-tapping and audio stimulation are often used (Shapiro, 1991). Shapiro (1995) hypothesizes that EMDR facilitates the accessing of the traumatic memory network, so that information processing is enhanced, with new associations forged between the traumatic memory and more adaptive memories or information. These new associations are thought to result in complete information processing, new learning, elimination of emotional distress, and development of cognitive insights. EMDR uses a three pronged protocol: (1) the past events that have laid the groundwork for dysfunction are processed, forging new associative links with adaptive information; (2) the current circumstances that elicit distress are targeted, and internal and external triggers are desensitized; (3) imaginal templates of future events are incorporated, to assist the client in acquiring the skills needed for adaptive functioning.

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[MissCharlotte]

My T used EMDR this week when i asked him to help me prepare for my eye surgery next week. I have a sort of phobia about operating rooms. I thought the phobia came completely from all the times I had to accompany my youngest son into the OR over the past 6 or so years. There were many times. (He had some seroius health problems, and we had some frightening moments when I thought I was losing him, but he is ok now).

So, this week we did some EMDR, with T waving his fingers back and forth and me following with my eyes. He then asked me what came up and I remembered the difficult chldbirth of my oldest son. (It was an emergency c-section).

Then he did it again, and the difficult birth of my middle son came up (anesthesia failure). These two experiences were over 20 years old and so I had not considered them to be important to the "now."

So, I became aware that there were several experieces feednig into my fears. I'll let you know next week, if the EMDR helped or not! But so far, I have to say I was impressed with it.

[SecretGarden]

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almeda24fan said:
I have tons of resistance. I say 'I don't know a lot'. Lately, I've been trying to come back w/ a list in hand, and say well last time we talked about X and I thought about it and feel X.

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I understand that... I try to not say that anymore but sometimes... I don't :-) Something to work on. Always. You may notice that sometimes (often) I use alot of dots when talking in these posts. At some point a guy said stop using those periods and tell me what you are thinking when you are making the dots. I thought that was interesting...and valid.. but I still do. :-)

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I stopped at a local martini place and had two martinis. This made it easier but I wish I could talk freely. I did tell T that night that I had two martinis. Since I'm not an alcoholic I guess it wasn't an issue.

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I like your finesse. Where there is a will there is a way sometimes. I have heard of some taking relaxants of other kinds. I am sure this would open the door for further discussion once the words got out to get you started.

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As far as successes, I try to gage improvement in my outside life. Outside of the session.

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My pdoc says that the work that we do in our relationship will translate hopefully to the outside world and that is how he guages success.

[SecretGarden]

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Perna said:
My T disallowed the "I don't know" response and gave me the time I needed to "know what I know" and express it; she taught me to "check my heart." I have honesty and courage despite being so fearful of my shadow so that all worked :-)

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I have always been honest in therapy and understand the "check my heart" as that is powerful... and sometimes it takes a bit of time to see into the many recesses that are within it. I too like to think I have courage and am trying to come out from the shadow.

I love your T's analogies particularly about the interstate and the exiits.. lol The kid at the picnic...I suppose that was a visit that your T was looking forward to or hoping for? That is interesting indeed.

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The best breakthrough I had was I was writing cards and letters and sending them to my T every week, for about 5+ years, it helped me feel connected, especially when she was away. My T and I finally talked about it and how I had this "fantasy" relationship with her where she had no input and then the pressure wasn't so intense in therapy to respond to her there, where she was each week. I finally decided to do a 6 week "test" where I wouldn't write her at all, would just talk to her/be with her in therapy. Part of the period she was going to be away too, so that was going to be doubly hard. But it worked; I started "seeing" her and therapy for what they were and how they were here-and-now, "real" things whereas all my inside-the-head stuff and writing, etc. were not real interactions of any sort. I got much better at being present and being with my T and my problems/sadnesses/joys/anxiety and saw how dealing with them when they arose in real time made them not a problem anymore.

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This is excellent. Do you believe that the letters built a bridge to breaking through your barriers?

[SecretGarden]

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sister said:
Secret said:

Well, yes I suppose they do challenge the conscious. I think that challenge is reciprocal in nature. What I mean is the unconscious challenges the conscious (to clam up) and the conscious, once aware, challenges the unconscious (to let go). Does that make sense to you?

It's a constant battle we fight with ourselves to reach deeper and deeper inside, or stay further and further away!


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I think you have me pegged.

[SecretGarden]

Thank you for that information Sunrise. I sure would like to do that for my early years... starting with my infancy and birth... I think but that would be painful. I can see why you would crash for a long time.

Do you still feel like you need to protect your T?

[sunrise]

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SecretGarden said:
Do you still feel like you need to protect your T?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
No, not at all. I gave him some of my yuckiest abuse memories from childhood and he handled them with no problem. Stuff from my more recent years may not be painful or fun, but I don't feel the same way, like I am inflicting horrible stuff on him, rather just sharing things that are painful to me. We have left my past and are focusing on the present and future right now, as I try to solve my relationship problems. Someday, I may return to the past in therapy, as we just did a quick tour of the low points, but for now, we are pretty goal oriented in solving the couples dilemma.

If nothing else, EMDR is quite an experience and maybe worth doing a couple of times if only just to know what it's all about (intellectual curiousity).

[sunrise]

well, that's supposed to read "Stuff from my more recent years may be painful or not fun." Kind of changes the meaning.... I wish we had more than one hour to edit our posts.

Interesting thread.

"I don't know" makes me smile because sometimes I darn well know and when I say it I feel like a kid saying "That's for me to know and you to find out!" ... realizing of course that therapy doesn't work that way but still that's sometimes how I feel.

Perna, it is interesting what you said about writing and the fantasy relationship with your T. I have had a similar experience and while it can be satisfying (since I control it totally ), it isn't real. I was pretty entrenched in it, maybe still am, and it's hard to let go. It isn't even with my T.

I also write, journal or whatever you want to call it. I used to write more, especially before a session. Now I prefer to wati til after the session because it seemed like I was trying too hard to prepare and I ended up feeling as if I'd already explored something when I hadn't really, I had just written about it; but I would tend to not bring it up in session. That doesn't work because then I end up frustrated over it. So now I will decide to bring something to session but I don't decide the details, I just decide that I will approach something and maybe plan how to approach it; then I will let happen what happens. That works well for me.

Barriers. Fear always. Gosh I don't much like what parts of me I know.... I want to know more?! mmm not sure sometimes! The next step is a barrier: if I uncover something then I can no longer continue in ignorance...something will be required of me. What?! Fear again. Everywhere I go, there it is. I've though about this a lot since reading your initial post, SG. You know I"m new to this type of therapy so I don't know if this is an answer, but for me a huge barrier is that so many things I might talk about seem to point to my longing to be loved and I don't want that known, seen. It seems better to let it continue to be a gut-wrenching longing than to find out it will never be fulfilled, my Fear.

[SecretGarden]

Hi Echoes... I enjoyed reading your post yesterday and I am sorry I did not respond then. I have been a little in and out here lately.

I have thought of journaling and I used to all the time. I have thought about it alot lately... while working through anxiety and perhaps some barriers. I have been making a list... mainly of single words that I will elaborate on. I have so many things to share I am afraid that those things might be a barrier... or a defense... hummmmm... But it is all important... but maybe a defense.

I think it is good to journal or lately just write some important things down after session. I need to get a new journal I think.

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if I uncover something then I can no longer continue in ignorance...something will be required of me. What?! Fear again.

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Yes I understand... wish I was not so anxiety ridden. How to reach goals while going through the fear and anxiety. Yikes

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that so many things I might talk about seem to point to my longing to be loved and I don't want that known, seen. It seems better to let it continue to be a gut-wrenching longing than to find out it will never be fulfilled, my Fear.

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I have this fear too but this is also interwoven in to the previous quote of yours... that involves fear and for me needing to DO something. Double yikes. I do not mind telling my pdoc and have. However HE still will not tell me that he likes me.. no matter how many times I ask. I know it is therapeutically relavent... like I should like myself without his input so need of his love/admiration. Still working that through. Drives me silly though.