After Quitting Therapy...

I wonder if anyone can help me or tell me where to go... (lol... politely) to find out what happens after therapy is completed.. I have been in therapy for a way long time..half of my life (eeeeekkkkk) and I know that there is like a vulnerability often with that and like a wound is perpetually open. What happens when therapy ends? Does the wound close and will things be less chaotic and I know no one can answer this part.. but will I be better? Maybe I am not as happy because my wound has been so open for so long.

Keeping in mind that I know that there are no sure answers and like there should be a disclaimer somewhere here. If I have done adequate work... will I not feel so crappy?

SG... who is still getting to therapeutic dose (hopefully) on a new med.

I am not sure how much of my depression is genetic /chemical and how much is situational.

I will also post this on the General Discussion forum. Your thoughts, experiences and hypothesises (?) would all be welcome here. Thanks.

i just had to respond and say.....

if you are choosing to quit therapy on your own...that says something about you. it suggests, to me at least, you are somewhat ready and is a measure of self-confidence and your own self-awareness.

but with any transition....there is pain...so while your decision to quit may be your decision...it still is a change and any change has some amount of "discomfort".

Oh I think I have a ways to go but I do not wish to stay in forever. I am on a learning curve right now... but in a bit of pain. I like to think this will not be my life experience and that I will have some peace...I hope.

Thanks... Having it be my decision and having a mutual closure is my fantasy and hopefully will be my reality. I know the closure within therapy takes some time and then outside it keeps happening.

I have had one therapist retire and then die. I know that both of those events required mourning.. But I went from one to the next basically or even with a small break I knew that I would be seeing the second one as I was not ready to quit.

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SecretGarden said:

I am not sure how much of my depression is genetic /chemical and how much is situational.

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How does this play into your thoughts about ending therapy? Is it because if you think that your depression is chemical, then you don't see that further work can be done? Just trying to get a sense of where you're at.

You said you have been in therapy for half your life? Where do you see yourself now as opposed to when you 1st started?

I can't even imagine my therapy being completely. I feel like I have only scratched the surface. Plus I am so afraid to lose him, I don't even want to think about it.

I don't really think of therapy in terms of it being completed when I "get better." I guess I see it as a constant process of restructuring my personality... and coming to a greater understanding of myself. I can't really define what would be the end point.

Thanks Pink...

I feel at a loss here a little as I do not really wish to share my depression here as I know this forum is about progress.... though with me depression is part of that progress.

I was way pitiful when I first started and I have improved by leaps and bounds. I damn well hope so as I have worked ferociously hard.

Somehow my pdoc has told me that I have been cutting down trees but that without working on the core the trees will grow back. So I have been clearing trees and brush and am now hoping to do deeper work. So... I know... I am hoping to not avoid and hope that I can belly up to the bar so to speak.

My mom, a retired pdoc, and a popular topic in therapy for all of these years has been supportive to me today in my tears (yes a bit low... but better at this second). I have mixed emotions about doing that but I was there trying to fill my time at this lonely depressive time.

Her thought is that I have had enough therapy and that it is all chemical. My sis has said the same. No siblings have this crap but my dad has had depression, his sister and his dad and his sister's son. There is some bio connection as well as situational. Mother well intentioned but unavailable, etc...

Anyhow Pink...my thought is that my pdoc says that I have not affected my core in 15 years and in my depression I say well what the %#@&amp;#! have we been doing. I have trusted this man. I do know that we have been working ... and working... and maybe are turning a corner so I do not wish to avoid. However, I see at this juncture that life is just difficult and will it ALWAYS be that way damn it? I think that we are closer to the end of therapy but in years I am sure.. a couple maybe. I am middle aged now... with alot I have not accomplished in life.

Oh well... TMI I am sure... but thanks for the vent and hope some of this may give you some insight. I do expect that I will be in periodically for the rest of my life. Hope this T never retires and will live long... but doubt both of those things.

My mom has mentioned (years ago ... this has been a long journey) that therapy continues a couple years after quitting therapy. So I wonder...is that true and what next. I am honestly afraid to stop. (whispering)

I am pleased that you are in therapy for your own needs as well as for the clients that you will be working with in your future. I have had a psychologist PhD friend who never went to therapy and that basically floors me. You are doing well.

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SecretGarden said:
I am not sure how much of my depression is genetic /chemical and how much is situational.

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SG, I wouldn't make too much about this distinction. As I like to say to my therapist, "everything is biochemical." When our situational, life events send us into depression, they do so, in part, by altering the levels of the neurotransmitters in our brains. So even though this depression has its root in unfortunate life events, it is definitely biochemical. That's why anti-depressants can help depression that is triggered by life events. Similarly, there are things we can do in our lives to help balance our brain chemicals. That's why CBT can help depression. It promotes lots of little life changes that each positively affect our biochemistry. (Please note: I am not trying to say that everyone can deal with depression through CBT or without meds.)

One of the most important factors to me in combatting my depression was regaining hope. That is very abstract and ill-defined, but it helped me so much (way more than CBT stuff).

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like a wound is perpetually open

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SG, I don't think therapy has to be like this.

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my pdoc says that I have not affected my core in 15 years

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What does that even mean? Can you give an example? What would a SecretGarden look like whose core had been effected? How would you be different from how you are now if your core was affected? I find your T's statement really vague. Do you find it helpful when he says stuff like that?

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I am middle aged now... with alot I have not accomplished in life.

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SG, are you putting your life on hold while you wait for therapy to end?

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I have had a psychologist PhD friend who never went to therapy and that basically floors me.

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Me too! I don't know if my T has ever been in therapy himself before. I can't remember if he's said that. But he did tell me once that he did depth family therapy with himself and his mother, with him acting as both a client and his own therapist. And she had her own therapist present. So it was a threeway session. That boggles my mind.

(((Secret)))

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I am not sure how much of my depression is genetic /chemical and how much is situational.

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I think, like Sunrise, that all depression is both siutational/chemical, as you say. It occurs when our life experience meets up with our genetics or biology plus biography. I know that I am genetically predisposed to depression but it my life had been a bowl of cherries, maybe I wouldn't need my lexapro right now.....or therapy? Hmmmm....T says that for someone like me where there is a family history, I need to be vigilant and when other life crises occur, I will need to take action immediately.

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Does the wound close and will things be less chaotic

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I think of my healing as a life-long process, of which therapy is only one part. I just happen to be in a very vulnerable state right now, so depend on T greatly -- for the work we are doing. It is my hope that I won't always feel this way and that my therapy will change and mature.

Do you want to stop seeing your T? If so, give it a whirl. Or, try seeing a different T with a different perspective/background for a few sessions just to see how it feels.

That's what my son did and although I was against it (Oh, you know a Mom thing), he eventually decided he preferred the approach of the new T over his old one.

You don't have to give up Pdoc you have now, and can tell him or not tell him what you are doing....it's all up to you....this is all your choice.

Good luck girlfriend.

I was in therapy from September 1970-July 2005 :-) but with the same therapist 1978-1987 and then 1996-2005. We terminated the second time, deciding a year-to-year-and-a-half beforehand, because my T retired. I decided to move, retire, etc. also summer of 2005, during that year-and-a-half. I would say my T and I worked hard on termination during that period.

My biggest problem in my life has probably been my stepmother's and my relationship followed closely by my mother's death when I was 3. In the 1996-2005 period my T and I worked through a majority of those problems; indeed, I was in therapy because my father died in 1992 and my stepmother started to get seriously senile around 1995 and her problems were triggering my issues. At one point around 2000, my T made the prediction that things would change/get better when my stepmother died, which she did in 2001 (I got "the" call from my stepsister Saturday morning and just happened to be on my way out the door to my T for a makeup session; how's that for timing? :-) It was very different and my life did get "better" in many ways. In May of 2003 my father-in-law died (I never knew my mother-in-law, she died in 1985ish) and my appendix burst a week later and there were serious complications until late October 2003.

I planned a lot of activity for the summer during termination. We were moving from our home of 20 years, I was quitting my job of nearly 8 years, I was furnishing and working on my new home and I'd planned the biggest vacation of our married life since our honeymoon, a trip to Europe, for September, during our anniversary. There was a lot going on and it was "scary" and I finally found an online/e-mail therapy through Metanoia http://www.metanoia.org/ whom I'd had my eye on for 6-7 years. He was not quite "local" to me but I knew where his office was, had grown up in that neighborhood, and I was familiar with his website, style, etc. I started a "bridge" therapy of a couple months, writing him 3-4 times a week I guess, sometimes more and gradually less. I got use to all the "different" activity and organization work of being in a new place, new neighbors, new routines, etc. During the whole time I didn't so much miss my T as feel "lost" because of everything being different and, for a while, much more confusing and intense. I moved from a huge rambler on an acre of land overlooking a State park to a tiny townhouse on the Chesapeake Bay, an hour away. The downsizing of my life from the last 20 years (and all my childhood, my parents were both alive when I moved in and had been to visit, etc.) was very hard/triggery as you can maybe imagine and I hired a professional organizer to help me, and we had a huge yard sale that she had to call in extra people for, etc. I remember most, having to sell 350+ books to a used book dealer and just the dividing up of which to keep/which to sell was a daunting experience. I had to throw away lots of childhood memories, books from my brothers' childhoods in the 1940s, things I had no room for and which no one bought at the yardsale (and which were pretty ratty, having only sentimental value). I had "collections" of a few, what I thought were good/rare books and the bookseller said they weren't. . . During this whole clean-out-the-old-house, I hadn't cleaned in the 20 years we lived there, I had a serious asthma attack and made my husband call 911 and got my first/only ride in an ambulance in my life. The dust, dirt, mildew, mold, etc. were a bit "much" :-) for me and we'd just gotten a new air conditioner for the house which was MUCH better than the old so the air apparently was full of all that -- we "broke" it the first week we had it, I think it was, because the filters clogged, they were picking up so much stuff, so "well."

So, here I am 2 years out of therapy. How am I? Life goes on. I have very different problems than I had 1996-2005, not better or worse or harder or less hard; just different. But I'd give myself probably a "B" as to how I'm doing. There are few distracting voices in my head, less angst about what-to-do-when, things are a bit neater/cleaner but a lot of that is having less space/fewer things; I'm still working on that. Yesterday was our community yard sale, the second I've participated in and I got rid of a bunch of stuff. I still have too many books, just bought two more temporary bookcases (which I don't have room for :-) and I'm working on rearranging my "half" of the office (the second bedroom) so my desktop I never use uses my grandmother's antique desk instead of a whole corner metal thingy (which I should have gotten rid of yesterday with the yard sale but was too "lazy" to take apart and do) so we have more space in there. My one and only storage, an understair closet (about the size Harry Potter lives in at his uncle's) is jammed to the ceiling but the "climate controlled" rental space I have down the street, same size, has one lonely bag of Christmas decorations that it's only costing me something like $80 a month to store. I didn't even go get them for last Christmas!

So, nothing "goes away" with therapy/the end of therapy; you don't become someone you aren't but just keep "evolving" but I have become a slightly better "weaver" of my life's cloth? :-) There's fewer burrs and sticks in it but still a knot or two or a dropped stitch it would appear. It's looking much better though than it did before therapy's going back and reworking a few sections.

SG, Yes I often wonder what we it feel like when therapy comes to a close. Well the intense 2xwkly therapy I am in now.

I know T said one of the advantages of therapy is, it gives me another avenue, it teaches me think.

I guess I was hoping somewhere in the deepest darkest realms of my mind, that therapy would change my history. IT can't, but I guess I am getting better at thinking about it.

When I have self destructive thoughts, which I still do often, they do not seem as deep or last as long.

I still idolise about suicide, I just dont feel as close to it though, my thinking helps give me distance between the thoughts and the actions.

I also think this forum isn't just about progress, its fine to talk about our depressions and setbacks. Recovery isn't a straight line and I'd rather people talk "real" how it really is for them or otherwise we/I can feel I'm not doing as well as others if it was all honkey dorey posts.

Just a quick note out of bed this morn. I do feel that I have been in some ways putting my life on hold while in therapy and now I wake up and feel that I have nothing. Part of this is due to my functionality that I have not had kids or a hubby or even dating much. Too many issues but somehow I feel like I am coming out of a bubble...and it is too late. Empty.

Thank for all of your responses. I will respond better shortly. I have a bit of anxiety and not sure if it is the depression or the med or a combo deal. Not alot of sleep.

Sg, I've been feeling that lately, that i'm waking up, mine's be about education though. I feel I want to know things now and wasted so many yrs. Plus I feel saddness that my mind wasn't always fully available for my kids, that I could have been a better mother, if I'd got help sooner. Oh I dunno, I guess regrets are part of life and its what we do with them that matters??

Take care.

((( SecretGarden )))

Thinking of you this morning.

I hope you find joy and peace today. Take care of you!

Hugs,

Me

For awhile, I decided that my depression was almost entirely biological. Then I realized this decision came after I also decided that I couldn't do anything about it. Of course I accept that there are biological components to depression. And biploar d/o, of course. If I didn't believe that, why would I be taking medication? However, through my therapy, I have come to realize that my depression, along with my mood swings, especially the "highs," are largely characterological. And only therapy can help me work on this-- the medication is just a temporary tool, in hopes that it will balance me out just a bit, enough to help me focus on the important stuff for the time being (school, internship, therapy, relationship, work).

So basically what I'm saying is I made my decision that my problems were biological in a time of great frustration and stagnation in what I was going through. I am not sure what makes you feel as though you haven't gotten to 'the core.' I am not discounting your feelings at all, just pointing out that from reading your post, you have obviously made extremely long strides, and have engaged in great progress. I know that with my own therapy, I cannot identify one core. It is more like a mess of entanglement, lol. Will it ever get untangled? I don't know. But I can already mark my progress in several areas. I guess that's what I am looking for-- areas of progress, rather than getting to the core in me. Maybe you just need to redefine your reasons for staying in therapy? I don't think anything needs to be changed... perhaps just newly defined... sometimes that helps a lot. Yesterday, my T helped me to redefine something.... I told him, "You think that I'm difficult, don't you?" And he said, "Is it that I think you are difficult, or is it that this is a difficult situation?" See what I mean? Nothing changed, but the way I was perceiving the issue shifted. Have you talked about all this with your therapist? Anyway, I hope that I am not completely off base with every single thing I said, lol.

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Perna said:

So, nothing "goes away" with therapy/the end of therapy; you don't become someone you aren't but just keep "evolving" but I have become a slightly better "weaver" of my life's cloth? :-) There's fewer burrs and sticks in it but still a knot or two or a dropped stitch it would appear. It's looking much better though than it did before therapy's going back and reworking a few sections.

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I really liked this thought..... and this is a great thread!

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sunrise said:
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SecretGarden said:
I am not sure how much of my depression is genetic /chemical and how much is situational.

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SG, I wouldn't make too much about this distinction. As I like to say to my therapist, "everything is biochemical." When our situational, life events send us into depression, they do so, in part, by altering the levels of the neurotransmitters in our brains. So even though this depression has its root in unfortunate life events, it is definitely biochemical. That's why anti-depressants can help depression that is triggered by life events. Similarly, there are things we can do in our lives to help balance our brain chemicals. That's why CBT can help depression. It promotes lots of little life changes that each positively affect our biochemistry. (Please note: I am not trying to say that everyone can deal with depression through CBT or without meds.)

I do not think that CBT ever has been my therapy of choice but I have exposure and at this time it may help me get back on track... Thanks. Luckily some of this has been ingrained but sometimes a refresher course is in order. I also had a pdoc briefly who told me that chemical and situational play off each other sometimes to make a depression grow. I know that when the chemical gets more in line that things will be better. I am also dealing a bit with situalional (I have mentioned earlier) so that plays in to it all too.

One of the most important factors to me in combatting my depression was regaining hope. That is very abstract and ill-defined, but it helped me so much (way more than CBT stuff).

Hope and fight I always say... I seem to go up and down. The hope is here at the moment. The fight is healing but bit by bit coming back.

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like a wound is perpetually open

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SG, I don't think therapy has to be like this.

I think that despite my sensitivities, I am a tough cookie to change and so there is frustration on both of our parts. I do not think that my wound is always open but the therapy is always active and everpresent.

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my pdoc says that I have not affected my core in 15 years

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What does that even mean? Can you give an example? What would a SecretGarden look like whose core had been effected? How would you be different from how you are now if your core was affected? I find your T's statement really vague. Do you find it helpful when he says stuff like that?

This is oft discussed lately. The thought is that to get to the core work has to be done which we have been doing... for years. He says I am now ready and I feel this too. I actually found/find it painful but he repeats now that that does not mean we have not done alot of work. It is that working on the core will help the other work not be deminished or as he says.. to grow back as we have been clearing brush.

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I am middle aged now... with alot I have not accomplished in life.

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SG, are you putting your life on hold while you wait for therapy to end?

I think that when I started therapy I was so dysfunctional that I was indeed not mommy material. This last visit he said I would have been a good enough mom. I think that he may be speaking of now..but I am too old. I was not ready to have a husband and I did attempt to be promoted but the stress was great. So I had hoped that there would be much waiting for me as a result of the incredible work that we have done. I suppose I know now that I am so much better but in my depression I wonder what the value / purpose of my life has been. Now working on what else I might do or different directions. I have not given up on being a couple...and I have progressed in my job and many things... but not to the potential that I have limited by my core ... my psychie. Thank you.

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sister said:
I think, like Sunrise, that all depression is both siutational/chemical, as you say. It occurs when our life experience meets up with our genetics or biology plus biography. I know that I am genetically predisposed to depression but it my life had been a bowl of cherries, maybe I wouldn't need my lexapro right now.....or therapy? Hmmmm....T says that for someone like me where there is a family history, I need to be vigilant and when other life crises occur, I will need to take action immediately.

This is valid. Sigh. Right on it.

I think of my healing as a life-long process.

I agree... but I hope that I have healed alot and I know I have worked hard for years. I hope that the work will not continue to be difficult but with the tools I have gotten..knowledge... it should be easier. This new med hoo haa from time to time REALLY bites.

Do you want to stop seeing your T?

I do not think I want to stop seeing him, at least right now. But I hope things will be winding down over the next year or two. When you have been in long term therapy, I do not think that is unrealistic.

Good luck girlfriend.

Thanks



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I shall return... Going out for a bit... but I appreciate all answers.

Thank you for sharing all of this Perna. I can not say that it makes me feel better but it is reality. I suppose you do feel that you have more tools to weave your life's cloth. You have created alot of change in your life after your therapy. Do you possibly feel the internal change (I hope you feel there was lots of change... tell me) was during therapy and the external change was moreso after therapy.

I feel that during my times of feeling lost that I do think of having another yard sale...had one last October.. but somehow the "stuff" is a comfort so I am not sure how much I am willing to give up all at one time.

I admire your journey Perna. I suppose I want you to tell me that life is better and easier and that therapy was valuable and what you might have hoped for. Of course we might have hoped for different things.

So this keeps me thinking that one might need to quit at some point of give up the falacy of what it may provide ultimately. That makes me anxious... and I can believe that as you said ..things would be more intense for a bit.

Your closure... was it a matter of grieving and/or finishing up certain topics or what.. Can you speak to that?

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mouse_ said:
I know T said one of the advantages of therapy is, it gives me another avenue, it teaches me think.

Yes I appreciate the avenue...but hope to not need it forever..though it is nice.

I guess I was hoping somewhere in the deepest darkest realms of my mind, that therapy would change my history. IT can't, but I guess I am getting better at thinking about it.

I would like for it to change my future...

When I have self destructive thoughts, which I still do often, they do not seem as deep or last as long.

This is a relief.... and works for me when the meds are working.

I also think this forum isn't just about progress, its fine to talk about our depressions and setbacks. Recovery isn't a straight line and I'd rather people talk "real" how it really is for them or otherwise we/I can feel I'm not doing as well as others if it was all honkey dorey posts.

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Thank you... I hope it is also progress despite the setbacks.

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mouse_ said:
Sg, I've been feeling that lately, that i'm waking up, mine's be about education though. I feel I want to know things now and wasted so many yrs. Plus I feel saddness that my mind wasn't always fully available for my kids, that I could have been a better mother, if I'd got help sooner. Oh I dunno, I guess regrets are part of life and its what we do with them that matters??

Take care.

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Thank you Mouse...I appreciate this. I think that we all have our own regrets but our own get in the way of knowing what other people's regrets..... Something about rose colored glasses when looking at others.

Thank you Echoes... You are always so thoughtful and often insightful.

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pinksoil said:
For awhile, I decided that my depression was almost entirely biological. Then I realized this decision came after I also decided that I couldn't do anything about it.

I guess I feel fear or powerless right now. Those are cores of mine.

And only therapy can help me work on this-- the medication is just a temporary tool, in hopes that it will balance me out just a bit, enough to help me focus on the important stuff for the time being (school, internship, therapy, relationship, work).

[b) You feel that your need for meds will be resolved via therapy? I think I will be on them for life.. it seems.[/b]

So basically what I'm saying is I made my decision that my problems were biological in a time of great frustration and stagnation in what I was going through. I am not sure what makes you feel as though you haven't gotten to 'the core.' I am not discounting your feelings at all, just pointing out that from reading your post, you have obviously made extremely long strides, and have engaged in great progress. I know that with my own therapy, I cannot identify one core. It is more like a mess of entanglement, lol. Will it ever get untangled?

I think I am at the core and that I too have had a mess of entanglement that for the most part has been untangled... now for what comes next.... PS..I bet your T could tell you some of your cores or you will come to them at some point.

"You think that I'm difficult, don't you?" And he said, "Is it that I think you are difficult, or is it that this is a difficult situation?" See what I mean? Nothing changed, but the way I was perceiving the issue shifted.

I think that we are working on our perceptions now and how we need to proceed.

Thanks for your thoughts Pink. You are on your way.



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Sometimes I ask my therapist when will I be better. will I always be in therapy? she said when will I be better depends on what I want to accomplish in therapy. If I have met all the goals that I want and need to and feel I am done then I am done. She said Im the one in control of my therapy progress and future. Not her. It doesn't matter what she thinks the word better means what matters is what I consider would be better for me. She also said that I can be in therapy with her or other therapists along the way for however long I want to be the one paying out the money. Some people stay in therapy forever and others set goals to work on and when those goals are complete they end therapy sometimes for good and other times just for a space of time. She also said that most people consider themselves done with therapy when they are more focused on things they need to do outside of therapy then they are on the things that they need to do in therapy. If Im sitting there wishing that I was not there but out doing something else then I should not be there.

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SecretGarden said:
I suppose I want you to tell me that life is better and easier and that therapy was valuable and what you might have hoped for

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Yes, life is much much better and easier and therapy was/has been one of the two best things in my life (the other being my relationship with my husband :-)

When I started therapy at 20, I was totally lost, afraid, and clueless. Now (at 56 :-) I'm none of those things. I've always shared my therapy at my work, especially my last job of 7 years (the last 7 of the 9 years I was last in therapy) and a coworker/friend there confirmed that I had become better, even by outside/"objective" standards :-) My T said when I started therapy I was just a "shell" -- now I'm a genuine Perna, LOL!

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Crystal88 said:
She also said that most people consider themselves done with therapy when they are more focused on things they need to do outside of therapy then they are on the things that they need to do in therapy.

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I really like that.