[cinnamon_roll]

Hello dear forum,

I'm in a bit of a stalemate with my therapist, and I'm not really sure how to address things with her, so maybe some of you can support me with some ideas how to proceed...

My partner of 15 years and I are currently in a bit of a rough patch, my severe depression over the last couple of years being one big contributing factor. I already feel quite guilty about that one.

Last session we (T and I) talked about the situation. My partner and I are nowhere near splitting up, but we are at completely different points at the moment, heading into different directions, and I feel there is not much that can be done about this. Which is ok for me at some days, because that in itself doesn't mean that we won't connect, and on other days I find it kind of threatening.

So, last session T kept pointing out how certain behaviours from my side (might) affect my partner. I can understand why she would do that - to challenge my perception that the basic situation might be out of my control (which I know it isn't really).

Problem is, that even those rather small challenges from her side propelled me into intense emotional flashbacks of feeling guilty, feeling shamed and jugded. And from then onwards things went really downhill, I "checked out", dissociated, went numb. Struggled for a couple of days afterwards to regain my balance.
Her focus on my partner's perception and needs/wants *automatically* carries the message for me that my needs/wants/desires don't count *at all*. Even though I rationally know that this is *not* what she said. It's just part of the legacy of my fundamentalist upbringing.

In session I mentioned that I find this situation/conversation we're having rather difficult. And she agreed that we should talk about this some more.

I'm quite clear for myself what has been happening and why (emotional flashback). And that in itself is good. But I'm unsure how to deal with situations like this in the future. What do I need? I cannot and I don't want to avoid being challenged by my T. That's part of her job and I know that being challenged is part of the process of changing... And it wasn't that her tone or what she said in session was particularly judgmental or shaming. It seems to be my 'emotional makeup' that things like that trigger me quite easily. At least at the moment.

I'm not sure about what I want from my T in situations like this. Part of me wants to avoid being challenged altogether. Because it is so freaking painful und uncomfortable. Another part of me knows that only by being challenged and exploring how this makes me feel, things will start to change. that only by going into those situations my crosswired brain might gradually realize that this is not a life-and-death situation any longer, that there are different options, and it's not about being a sinner and being fundamentally wrong like it was when I was a kid.

My question is, how T and I can go about this differently so this might not be so immensely triggering. I know I need more space to explore. I seem to go off the wrong end once T starts (for whatever reason) to be more directive in her suggestions or interpretations. But I don't want to come across as over sensitive (well, maybe I am???), as needing to be treated with kid gloves. Also I get the feeling that I might benefit from some sort of meta-check-in in between, of pausing and listening inside how x, y or z makes me feel right now. So we would hopefully catch things a bit sooner, and I could try and hold the feeling without needing to dissociate.
Are there any other ideas / suggestions out there? I would really appreciate your input and maybe even you experiences with situations like this. Thanks in advance!

cinnamon_roll

My first T, who I saw for 10 months used to challenge me like your T is doing. I found it really difficult, and experienced shame and rejection. My view on it now is that she was challenging the wrong thing. What I need to have challenged is the shame I feel about being me, and my view that my feelings are unimportant etc. I think that my first T's approach actually just confirmed all that in my mind. My current T has not challenged me at all, but my therapy with her is helping to changing the way I feel. My relationship with my H has really improved during the time that I've been seeing her. I think that my T's acceptance and understanding has indirectly helped our relationship as I am happier in myself now.

[Luce]

It sounds like you have quite a lot of insight into what is going on for you, and about what it is that you are finding challenging. As challenging as it is to experience these triggers and strong emotions you seem to understand what is causing them and what you need to do in order to move through this.
(You actually remind me of me - lots of insight, but really struggle with managing the triggers and overwhelming emotions. Annnnd not wanting to be that 'weak' person who can't deal and just freaks out about stuff )

Anyway, the thing that drew me to respond here was your comment about not wanting to come across as oversensitive or as needing to be treated with kid gloves.
My first thought about that was that it seemed 'judgemental' of yourself. You don't want to be seen as being over sensitive.

It seems to me that when this old stuff gets triggered we are very definitely in that moment 'over sensitive' to something which is not typically a problem for someone else, but is definitely a problem for us. Being 'over sensitive' is just what it is really, isn't it? It's just par for the course when wading through this triggering stuff, and it is honoring yourself more than anything else to 'go gently', to tread carefully, and to treat yourself with kid gloves. That would seem to be healthy, positive self-care when wading through certain minefields, if you ask me.

My gut feeling reading your post is that you know what you need and - since you asked - the only suggestion I would offer would be to arm yourself with a great big old pair of kid gloves and to step gently forth into that big old minefield (making sure you pull back when you need to, stop for rests when required, ask t to step back when needed, and otherwise take care of yourself in whatever ways you need in the moment, including making use of those kid gloves.)

[cinnamon_roll]

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

My first T, who I saw for 10 months used to challenge me like your T is doing. I found it really difficult, and experienced shame and rejection. My view on it now is that she was challenging the wrong thing. What I need to have challenged is the shame I feel about being me, and my view that my feelings are unimportant etc. ...

Brown Owl, thanks for this. I think you're on to something there...
In this particular situation I kept thinking "I need something else" - even though I couldn't really pinpoint *what* it is/was that I needed.

But maybe it really is a question of choosing a different path: Of self-compassion and positive self-affirmation instead of being challenged. Even though "challenging" sounds far too strong for what she said/did in the situation. She wasn't harsh, or strict, or anything near judgmental in her tone/attitude. The feelings of shame and being judged are all my "mind-games". Which makes it even more difficult for me to be self-compassionate about all this. Because the trigger is so "non-existent" if you look at it from an outsider's perspective...

So I guess you are right, what's needed might be more support from her side so I'm able to find a more self-affirming attitude in all this.

[cinnamon_roll]

Originally Posted by Luce

Anyway, the thing that drew me to respond here was your comment about not wanting to come across as oversensitive or as needing to be treated with kid gloves.
My first thought about that was that it seemed 'judgemental' of yourself. You don't want to be seen as being over sensitive.

It seems to me that when this old stuff gets triggered we are very definitely in that moment 'over sensitive' to something which is not typically a problem for someone else, but is definitely a problem for us. Being 'over sensitive' is just what it is really, isn't it? It's just par for the course when wading through this triggering stuff, and it is honoring yourself more than anything else to 'go gently', to tread carefully, and to treat yourself with kid gloves. That would seem to be healthy, positive self-care when wading through certain minefields, if you ask me.

Thank you Luce,

you're right. I don't want to be seen as over sensitive... even though I am (in certain situations, when I'm triggered etc..)

So yeah, it's finding that spot of positive self-affirmation and self-compassion, especially in those situations. And finding the courage of asking for what I feel I need. Allowing myself to ask for it, in fact. Because also, just the fact that I'm contradicting my T in situations like this is triggering in itself. And telling her, I don't need x right now but y or z, is contradicting her (as an authority figure, as crazy as this sounds). Again, she doesn't act or come across authoritarian, but it's all in my head..)

How do I get out of this dilemma??

[CantExplain]

Can you tell your T how you feel? Can you tell her she's pushing too hard?

[unaluna]

Im not sure i follow exactly, but - like sometimes i have just directly asked my t, "are you saying you think im wrong in doing this regarding my brother (for instance)". Cuz it sounds like he is taking my brothers side, and im like what? So we just get whatever out in the open. Usually there is a method to my madness that t isnt aware of.

[cinnamon_roll]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Can you tell your T how you feel? Can you tell her she's pushing too hard?

Yeah, I'm planning to do this. In fact we already agreed we'd take another/closer look at the dynamics.

What I'm trying to figure out here is what do I want/need instead. As I'm pretty sure that this question will come up.

'Pushing too hard' probably sums it up quite well. I know I need *some* pushing so that I will start moving. Otherwise I just avoid all the time. Which doesn't bring about change...

But once moving I need enough space to find out which is *my* way...

[cinnamon_roll]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Im not sure i follow exactly, but - like sometimes i have just directly asked my t, "are you saying you think im wrong in doing this regarding my brother (for instance)". Cuz it sounds like he is taking my brothers side, and im like what? So we just get whatever out in the open. Usually there is a method to my madness that t isnt aware of.

It wasn't so much about right/wrong in the situation that I'm talking about.
It was more that I said: When my partner says/does x, my first impulse is to do a, b or c. Impulse doesn't mean for me that I would necessarily do this. As we were exploring different options, and one particular situation that happened recently, T just said: How did your partner feel/react about you doing this?
I guess she was just trying to figure out the dynamics in our partnership in that particular situation. But this little remark really sent me downhill...

I don't know how to solve your dilemma - but I have an idea. Print your OP and the following ones and give her a copy. You will have a springboard to facilitate discussion.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_roll

It wasn't so much about right/wrong in the situation that I'm talking about.
It was more that I said: When my partner says/does x, my first impulse is to do a, b or c. Impulse doesn't mean for me that I would necessarily do this. As we were exploring different options, and one particular situation that happened recently, T just said: How did your partner feel/react about you doing this?
I guess she was just trying to figure out the dynamics in our partnership in that particular situation. But this little remark really sent me downhill...

Downhill i understand. So sometimes i just try to scramble back into the game. Its not so much exactly what you say, as long as you dont disappear. Right / wrong isnt something i would USUALLY say, it would be more of a blurt. Trying to say SOMETHING.

[skeksi]

I've had the same experience, where I felt T was "siding" with my family and it shut me down.

Telling T, after the fact, how I experienced it, helped him understand my thought process. It helped him avoid tripping that reaction with me, but it also helped me talk about it more. Now I can talk about it when it happens, in the moment, so I don't end up a hurt, spaced-out mess.

Sharing your reaction with your T is a way to bring it into the open so you both can work with it.

[TishaBuv]

You described feelings that I totally relate to. I think you have a great understanding of it and thank you for helping me see more clearly.

As far as what you can do, I would say something to t like-- We have a good relationship and I am benefitting a lot from our sessions. Last time, when you challenged me by making me feel like you took my partner's side I got very upset after I left. Can you please try to be more gentle with me in this area, as I have trauma over these feelings from my past.

When I have mentioned on here that I have had bad experiences with therapists, one of them really attacked me by taking what you described to quite an extreme at only our third session. I got hysterical crying in his office with my husband there (marital problems), my h didn't defend me at all (another trauma from the past) and I cried all night long through an entire box of tissues.

[cinnamon_roll]

Thanks everyone for you input and your ideas. It really helps me to come to a better understanding of what I need in situations like this.

Ultimately I'm quite confident that T and I will be able to talk this through and to find some solution that works. We always have in the past so far. I guess by seeking your input I just want to be more 'prepared' for next session, to develop a better idea of what I need/expect of my T in those situations, so I don't get sidetracked.

@rainyday: Printing this post out sounds like a great idea, the problem is, that I don't live in an English-speaking country and I'm not sure about T's English skillz. I'm probably too lazy to translate this all. But just having this conversation with all of you help to see things more clearly.

@unaluna: Downhill for me means I freeze, like completely. I just go numb and in situations like this it takes all my strength to concentrate to keep breathing. At some point I might start moving again. Talking? Takes much longer.
We're working on grounding, on staying present, on not checking out so much, and it has become much better, I usually notice the first signs by now so I can actively push against zoning out, but still...

@skeksi: Yeah, ultimately I know that it should help to talk about all this. And that it should get easier with time. And as I said, my T really doesn't come across as authoritarian or judgmental. These are all my little homevidoes in my head, projecting/transfering onto her what I've experienced in the past. So even speaking up or asking for what I need in itself seems to be immensely triggering at the moment..

@TishaBuv - I feel for you. Having a T that attacks you just isn't helpful at all. And having your partner emotionally abandon you in a situation like this... So sorry you went through that.
The traumatic experiences from the past that pop up in present situations like this... On one hand it does help me to get a better idea of what I must have felt like when I was younger (as zoning out is not a recent feature of mine) and it does give me a tremendous amount of material to work on... On the other hand, it does get a bit much at times. I just wish for a pause button in situations like this, so I'm not constantly caught up in this. or for someone to grant me a week's holiday from myself so I can regroup a bit a get some more energy for the steps ahead...