Productive session, I think

My T had no idea I was triggered before she got my email. She purposely didn't write back until Friday. She said she was angry because I was rude and I need to realize she's human. She wants me to think before I spout out my feelings to her, and to others. I do sometimes react like that with others but mostly with her.

She said it would be fine to talk about the triggers in the session. We did. I CAN comfort myself, she said. She asked what DBT skills I could use. I said radical acceptance for her not being my friend and being my T. I asked her to say that to me. She did, but added that she cares about me. I said my head knows the reality but my heart doesn't.

I said it's because she's too friendly and she said if my style isn't good for you.... I cut her off the I think, said I am not going to quit.

She had me close my eyes and talk about how I felt last when I saw her. Like she hit me, I said. She left me alone. Didn't want me. How it was like when I wasn't in the family movies because I wasn't born yet.

At some point, she said, and I agreed, that she oops, I have a friend over, will continue later.

I know you're not done writing about the session, but one thing in the beginning jumped out at me. That she said she was angry at you. Did she mean she didn't write back until Friday because she was angry? Both my T and marriage counselor have said before that I shouldn't worry about their feelings. Like I can tell them that they upset me or that I'm annoyed with them or whatever, and I don't need to be concerned with their reaction to it. Like I shouldn't be like, "I don't want to hurt your feelings." Because that's one of the huge differences between the T-client relationship and a friendship. In a friendship, you *should* worry about the other person's feelings. But with a T, at least from my understanding, you don't have that obligation (of course I still worry about hurting their feelings or them being angry at me, because that's just how I am).

So it seems like, here at least, she's letting her feelings interfere with your therapy, like maybe a countertransference thing? Won't say any more till you write about the rest of your session, but that just grabbed me.

If you don't mind me asking, what was in the email that was rude and upset her? Has that happened before?

I am really glad she is using DBT skills with you. They help so much and I think they will really help you.

That is unsettling, that your T purposely waited til past the normal time to email you BC she was angry

And the winner of the dramatic pause award goes to....

Just joshing. your break in the rundown made me smile. I look forward to learning what happened next, because what came before is sounding distressing.

I agree with you. T's feelings shouldn't be involved being that the session is all about you and your feelings and not hers .

Thanks. LT. You know, it's hard to explain unless you are in the room with someone, what the session is exactly. In fact, I did tell T that she's not supposed to get angry. That's when she said she's human.

The reason she said that is because I know it's not healthy or mature for me to spout off a critical email about her without even thinking about it. I've done it before and that's one reason she wanted to stop emails. I told her I wanted her to do something about my reaction because I was hurt. She said I have to do it, not her. I have to use DBT or something else so I can control my outbursts. To settle myself before I react. She said it's fine to talk about being triggered and my feelings IN THE SESSION but not in an email.

It's true. I react too quickly. I realized later it was about feeling left alone, etc.

I'm writing most of my email here. "I'm by the lake pondering why I had to see you half naked, sauntering off on a walk because you had 45 minutes and why you had to tell me that. I didn't want to see that part of you looking so different and walking away. I guess it's because I really needed a wake-up call that I'm just your job."

Yes, it's happened before, when I left her a voicemail telling her something rude about her being so thin. She said that hurt and did I realize she has feelings too? I also didn't understand why it was so wrong to drive past her house. I think today she said that commenting on how shd dresses or what she's doing outside the session is crossing boundaries.

I did DBT with a different T in a group but my T believes in it too. I have to read my manual again.

Not BECAUSE she was angry but because she knows I can settle myself and can wait a week to talk about it. I don't think Im ready to do that but I I'll try again.
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The SESSION is all about me but T never said an angry email directed to her about her behavior after the session is included in that.

LT: I forgot to say that whatever a T is "supposed to do", it isn't the case with my T. She wants to tell me her feelings for a reason. She thinks I must do that with other people too. I know one person who triggers me and I yell at her, which she doesn't like. So my T isn't perfect after all. I'm wondering why a lot of people, not singling out you, have to say what THEIR T does and how wrong that is. What use is that? My T is my T. It didn't bother me. I thought I was rude too. I'm far enough along to know my T wasn't rejecting me, that it was transference.

OK I misunderstood. I thought she was upset about what you wrote and that was why she waited.

Does your T not understand the anger is part of the work? Your T from your words seems to not really have a real understanding of the work.
I'd get nothing from that. But until I had the T I've got now I wouldn't have been aware there's a better way for therapy to be. Try it. I promise you, you won't want to go back to someone who really isn't skilled.

Now I'm too tired to remember the rest of the session. I know it was about my feelings seeing her walk away. I think it was productive and that's all that matters. I didn't like hearing her say that she has a life outside of the office and that it's not about me. She said her walking away wasn't a rejection of me. When she said "it's not about you" I said "Stop. That's it! I want it to be about me!

I don't remember the rest. What I have to do is accept that she has a personal life and I'm not in it. I told her how bad that makes me feel. She said when I email it escalates and it's not helping me grow. I said I don't wanna grow! Child rebelling.

It is what it is. I can't email. I'll post on here a lot instead.

You realize you reacted too quickly without giving yourself time to settle and think first, and you realize your comments were rather loaded. She's setting a boundary about being the target of impulsive outbursts. I think you are right that it may be a good time to review the skills that will help you sit with your feelings before you respond.

This reminds me a great deal of how my husband used to react very impulsively when he was upset, and instead of a therapist being the recipient of his reactions, it was me. I'll be honest. It was painful and a beat down to be on the receiving end of his emotional outbursts. It caused me a great deal of anxiety and harm over time. My therapist worked with me so that I could hold some clear boundaries on that kind of treatment rather than to continue to accept that kind of treatment. I made it clear that I had no problem hearing his anxieties, hearing his fears, hearing his doubts. But lashing out at me personally was not okay. I would respectfully and supportively listen to his concerns so long as he didn't attack me out of his own fears which really weren't about me at all; I was just the "safe" target and outlet, but what he had to understand was that his outbursts at me might feel oddly safe to him because deep down he knew I loved him and would do anything to support him, being on the receiving end felt incredibly unsafe and was wounding me internally.

It took awhile, but when he started slowing down and thinking before speaking, when I consistently called him on those occasions when he lashed out instead of thoughtfully communicating, he found the real heartfelt and thoughtful communication we starting having was much deeper, much safer, and much closer than anything we had ever had before.

It sounds like your therapist is establishing a very similar boundary in hopes that you will again actively work on utilizing the skills that will foster better emotional regulation for you, and skills that you can take with outside the therapy room. Sometimes we backtrack and regress a bit; we forget to use what we have learned. We regroup and relearn, dust ourselves off and start again. That's okay. I admire your honesty and introspection. Keep at it.

I've seen 5 Ts with different orientations and this one has been the most understanding and accepting. She says it's fine to be angry with her IN THE SESSION. A few years ago in the session I drew a picture with red and black markers and tore it up and threw it at her. I'm tired of explaining and don't really like to be told to see someone else. This T is my last one. If she is starting to suffer burn out from me and terminates me, I'll be another case for BudFox. So be it. I'm glad your T is so wonderful, Mouse. Doesn't she ever make a mistake?

I actually think there's nothing wrong with a therapist saying they are angry about something a client said or did. The wrong part comes in if it then becomes all about the therapist's anger, instead of a way to strengthen the therapeutic relationship or to help the client grow. I think what the therapist did here was okay. And it seems to have done something for rainbow.

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I once said something particularly snide to my T and was surprised when he got pissy about it. I realized then that I'd started to take his non-reaction for granted; I'd started being an uncensored, unrepentant asshole just because he'd take it without lashing back.

I think it's not such a good thing when what is considered acceptable behavior in therapy drifts too far from what is considered acceptable behavior in other contexts. I, at least, needed that little reality check to remind me that I was going to therapy (in part) to figure out how not to be an asshole, not to have free reign to be an even bigger asshole

Rainbow, I'm sorry things are hard and complicated right now, but I'm glad you felt you had a productive session. I think it sounds like it was productive, too.

Wonderful? Skilled. From my own experince of what I've been through. I've learnt that is all part of the work. T has never brought herself into. Apart from thinking about what could be going on. Never told me she's refrained from doing someyhing because of someyhing I've done. I've emailed back and forth in anger. T handled it theraputically.
I'm not sure what response you want? People to just nod? I'm sharing my experience. Thers another way. I ain't never gonna stop saying that when I see or read stuff I know to be not quite right.

Not right for you, mouse. You can't speak to whether it is right for Rainbow or not. You may not agree with how her therapist works, but there is more than one approach to therapy because we are individuals. This would not work for you, but that doesn't necessarily make it not right for another person.

What punishment? That's repetition of the past. Your did this so I do that. Therapys about coming to understand. How can you understand if you squash an emotion?

To me, that's a weird boundary. First, if it's a boundary then she should NEVER discuss her rl with you. Second, she should take more precaution not to run into you (i.e. drive herself somewhere where she wants to walk/run instead of leaving her workplace on foot).

I'm opposite of you, sort of. I NEVER want to see my T outside her building. I like looking at FB pictures, but that's it. I don't care to know what she does. I don't even want to know what kind of car she drives! (I would panic if I saw the model/color of her car on the road). I don't even like it when I see her run to the bathroom real quick. And when the fair was going, I made sure that we weren't going to be there the same day.

I think your T needs to take a little responsibility for this situation. It's not your fault you saw her going out. Though you are still responsible for your feelings.

i dont usually comment on these threads but for some reason i have a strong urge to this time . rain i feel your T's response to your text can definitely be used as a learning experience. i know for me anger from someone else can be a terrifying experience. it meant abandonment and or violence. i have had T's angry at me and have expressed it to me . once i called my T at home late at night asking her to bail me out of jail. yup she was very angry at me and showed me this as well as seeing a person can be angry and upset at my behavior but not resort to abandonment or violence.in the end i saw the relationship could survive the anger and my T could be angry and still care . i never think it is ok to treat another person rudely .even a T. if a T allows this and a client thinks it is ok also then great it works for them .i tend to feel that T's are human and are allowed to act however they wish out of session and it is none of my busness.

I agree. I REALLY NEED to internalize the idea that someone can disapprove of something I DO and still love me and not leave. Monday in my phone consult my T got angry with me because I am refusing to see a Dr about something I need to see a Dr for. It threw me and SCARED me. I think its OK for a T to have feelings. My T occasionally expresses how difficult it was for her that she has extended so much love to me and I still didn't trust it. We grew from that. As long as the T is direct. Before I understood what actually happened with the email I thought the T was being passive-aggressive---- ignoring rainbow instead of saying "you upset me" . but it sounds like that is not what happened. It sounds like her T was direct about her feelings which is OK to me.

Well, two things came to my mind reading this. One, she does want you to be independent rather than fostering dependence as some argued in one of your earlier threads.

Second, the being 'angry'. I think every T and client relationship is different, unique, and as such does not - should not - follow a cookie-cutter format. I think it takes a certain level of...comfort, familiarity or closeness to be able to say: 'I am angry'. That's how I took your T's message anyway. She felt she had to draw the line & felt you could hear it, if it makes sense.

Maybe try it as homework. When anything happens in life, don't react immediately but let the feelings work themselves out, or write everything it stirs. Usually, you may feel the intensity diminishes or you view it from a different angle. It can also prevent one from hurting other people's feelings when reacting in such a knee-jerk fashion.

Yet, credit to you here again, for seeing & owning your part. I know 'little' (young) rainbow wants to hold on to T but a more mature rainbow reflects understanding of: 'I want that real bad but yah, I know I can't have it'. And even better, verbalising it.

I think it is a sign of progress! Don't you feel so?

Thanks for filling in the rest of what happened. The main thing is that you're finding this helpful. I can see why your therapist would respond to the "half naked" comment, which to me feels really shaming and would be hard not to respond to as a human being, especially since it was in reference to her outside of session. It did not harm your relationship to have the conversation about what happened (her response), and you found it helpful, so I think that's all good.

I'm glad that you worked it out and have a way forward for dealing with these feelings when they come up (on both sides).

This interaction between Rainbow and her T is helping her practice being more mindful of her responses and how they affect other people. I think it's important to see in this case that Therapisrs aren't at work 24/7 and chance interactions with our Ts outside of session don't automatically become part of therapy. I think her T mentioned feeling angry because she wanted Rainbow to know how this could have gone with someone else. That's not teaching someone to squash feelings, it's helping them learn to manage feelings. Real life doesn't always give you the chance to talk these interactions out with someone, so the fact yang this happened with Rainbow's T and not someone else is a good thing. This may not be your cup of tea, but it is valuable and therapeutic for many people.

OMG, you write so well. I had the same problem with my husband and resolved it in the same way.

I completed agree with your comments about Rainbow and her therapist. Successful conflict resolution needs practice over and over.
Thank you for such an excellent post.