[Longingforhome]

I'm new here but have been lurking a while..

Long time therapy user, one disastrous and traumatic T experience (blurred boundaries, mutual unhealthy obsession), many others to try to heal, and finally I have found 'the one'.

I am petrified of getting attached or if any form of transference, and thus far have managed to avoid both: until the last few weeks. Two things have happened.

1) I have found myself drifting into fantasy about him providing me comfort...stroking my head, just sitting with me, and my lifetime favourite: just being there as I sleep. This is familiar territory to me, it feels safe (even with my fears), it's something I have used all the way back to childhood to soothe myself, and it FEELS comforting and 100% consensual.

2) I have started to have unwanted and unpleasant sexual
thoughts about him. Last time, actually in session. I find these immensely distressing as I am not in any way attracted to him, and they do not feel good in any way. Even though I am a 'willing' participant in these
'fantasies', I do not enjoy it and am aware that I am doing these things for him, not me. My mood is grim, the sex from my end is perfunctonary, and he is laughing, in it for himself, not even at all focused on me.

It feels like rape, and last week I blurted that out. I told him it was very sad that I was thinking these things and I know it's not about him, not personal, but right in that moment I was aware I'd become afraid he was going to rape me.

He knows my background & is hugely careful and respectful, I know he will handle this fine. He thanked me for telling him.

My fear is, I really don't want this therapy to become about our relationship. That is my worst nightmare. I know it is where the healing is, but I am
so afraid of bring destroyed by it. Also, in my traumatic therapy, things went off the rails when I started to express longings and yearnings and T started to
magically fulfil them. Soon enough, I lost track of who was longing and yearning for what, and found it impossible to know what was my desire and what was hers. I found myself doing things that were not for or about me, but I couldn't tell that any more.

I know this is a good and ethical T and I know what he says about his ability to hold boundaries, but words don't mean much to me. Last T literally made my fantasies come to life, and even though rationally I know I didn't MAKE her break all her own very rigid rules and boundaries, I do feel like somehow, I wanted, longed and needed so much I broke her. What if I do that to another one?

Anyway - not sure what the question is and sorry this is long.

But I sure would appreciate the chance to talk about this.

[ruh roh]

I read your post and wanted to respond, but I don't have an answer for what to do if it happens again. Instead of waiting, could you work it out with him to help you not turn your therapy into something that's a repeat of the other one? Also, maybe what happened with the other one had to do with her and not you. In that case, this could be a lot of time trying to avoid something that isn't going to happen.

[Longingforhome]

Thanks, Ruh (and I do like your dog face!) I wrote in the middle that I trust him to handle this right, but actually on reflection, I don't think that is true. I don't trust him or any of them...

He and I get on really well and have a relaxed, 'friendly' T relationship (not as in, we are friends. Just mutually respectful and, I think, we like each other as people). But I know zero about him. And there lies the quandary: I can't know anything about him if the therapy is to work.

But it's asking an awful lot for me to trust he can steer us through something like this, I can be vulnerable and he would not take advantage of me. I totally feel like damaged goods: like I don't deserve or am unable to have the usual safeguards and boundaries that protect people in these situations.

And there's something about me that gives people permission to abandon them & throw the usual rules to the wind...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BayBrony]

Can you treat the fantasy like an intrusive thought and use DBT type skills?? I suffer from body dysmorphia and an eating disorder and sometimes I will have intrusive thoughts where I comparing my body to my Ts body ( female, close in age, athletic). These thoughts are unwanted, extremely disruptive to my therapy and connection, and generally not helped at all by talking about them.
With these thoughts often comes the feeling/fear that my T is secretly critical/ashamed of me.
I use my DBT skills. I tell myself these thoughts are not useful and focus on something else on in the room ( carpet pattern. Something like that) til I get it out of my head....

[Longingforhome]

That's a really good point re using mindfulness, BayBrony: what is content that needs exploring and what could be let go (for now, forever?).

It feels like it's all part of a deeper pattern connected to so many other things, but that diving deep into it would just overwhelm me, throw me into a massive PTSD flight/fight/freeze response and unmoor me totally.

You're right - I can be kinder to myself, slow it down, give it some space. It's not an emergency. Nothing is actually happening outside of my head. I don't have to analyse it all right now. I don't need to understand it and have it nailed to be safe (even though that's my usual rationalising, OCDish approach and what every fibre of my being wants to do). I don't need to be watching it like a hypervigilant hawk. Those things feel like they keep me safe. But they don't.

Maybe I can look at it through the lens of 'Wow. That's an interesting old pattern that's popping up. Who knows why, right now, and it's not going to be able to be understood right now, anyway.'

Something like that?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Argonautomobile]

I think Bay and Ruh Roh have offered some really sage feedback. This sounds like a really tough, painful place to be in and I'm sorry you're feeling this way. Do you mind my asking how often you have sessions and whether you've considered taking a short break? I don't know if this is the 'right' answer, or at all applicable in your situation, but I noticed that a lot of my obsessive worrying about therapy went away when I stopped going so often. It sort of re-focused me back on myself and the issues that brought me there in the first place. Maybe something like that could help you too?

I hope you find some relief and a solution that works for you.

[Longingforhome]

Thanks, Argonautomobile. I see him once a week or fortnightly, depending on my travel schedule. You're right, a break can be a good idea to ease up some of the intensity. I'm just a bit scared I would leave and not go back right now. It's been really hard for me to get into going regularly at all, given my history. But maybe it is partly that: that I have been turning up pretty much consistently & he's become a bit of a fixture in my life?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Longingforhome]

Thanks, all - because I just joined none of my responses are showing yet, they are getting moderated so I suspect they will all flood in at once.

I've been at home sick in bed today, and it's given me a lot of time to think.

I think what is going on is this: as the 8 months or so I've been seeing him has worn on, he has become much more 'friendly' and a bit more casual. Nothing out of session, I hasten to add, and nothing out of the normal realms of good, boundaried therapy - believe me, I can tell the difference.

Last session, when I started to have the intrusive thoughts, he was sort of splayed back in his chair, his legs stretched out in front of us. Still loads of space between me and him, big room. But also still creeping towards me.

He also seems to genuinely like my company and we seem to share a few interests in common. Again, just familiarity and time I suppose. But he laughs a lot if I say something funny, he's really intensely 'there' and we are relaxed together. His boundaries are really good - we finish bang on time, there's absolutely zero out of session contact, emails are for appointments only, he charges me for every second I am there. I like that.

Honestly, if I hadn't been through what I have been through I would be counting my blessings to find a really good therapeutic relationship with somebody who was stable, seemed genuinely interested and engaged and who accepts and seems to like me.

BUT..I have had to ask him a few times to not talk about himself or his life. It's not excessive, it's well within the realms of 'normal' and he's not loading problems onto me. Just using examples of things. But I am super sensitive to that. I felt stupid asking, but it was really triggering for me and I found myself withdrawing into myself and being unable to talk.

And now the whole casual, lolling back in his chair like we're sharing a drink on a Saturday night...too loose for me.

I wish I could scoot over it and sort it out in my own head and accept it and get on with the therapy. But it's really, really upsetting to me and I don't know whether I am going to be able to get past it.

By the same token, he hasn't done anything wrong. It's me. I'm super sensitive to physical space and where people are in the room, and even more so now that I'm talking about deeper and harder things.

Do I be the adult and try to deal with this on my own, knowing it's 'just' a trigger and nothing else, and risk a really messy time in T that will probably end up with me having to tell him anyway, because I'll get all dissociative and stupid?

Or do I front up to it with him, even if it does make me feel completely ridiculous to ask somebody to sit a certain way in their own office, and insanely over-sensitive to be so worked up about a few feet of personal space?

I also don't want to mess with what we have, which is a good, solid and very effective T relationship. He is very, very good and totally gets me. The 'adult' me loves that he is laid back and not afraid of me (especially given my past T relationship), truly interested and good company. But the bit of me that needs therapy - the broken, scared, smaller and less rational side of me is scared half to death. And I am afraid that if I let this carry on...I'll shut down and it'll all start to fall apart.

[Argonautomobile]

You know, if he's half as good as you say he is, being honest about this sort of thing won't destroy your relationship or cause him to hulk out into some sort of monster. It sounds like he's been very good about the boundaries you've already asked him to respect (less self-disclosure) and has taken a really sensitive disclosure about your intrusive thoughts like a professional. That said, I really do empathize with how difficult that kind of honesty can be, how crazy and 'damaged goods' it can make you feel.

My T opens the door for me. We walk through multiple doors to get to his office and he opens every single one. I absolutely hate it--I have to pass much too close to him and he's, like, insanely tall so I feel like I'm passing under him, too. For six months I put up with this **** because, hey, only crazy people can't abide the basic courtesy of holding a door.

One day, I just couldn't do it. I said, "You can go first."

And you know what? He did. And didn't get all offended. Didn't give me a funny look. Didn't insist on analyzing the thing to a bloody pulp. He just went first and that was that. This nuance of human interaction I thought was a big deal? It wasn't. And that is so incredibly freeing.

You really can say, "Dude, can you back up a couple feet?" and have it not be a big deal. I'd say go for it--try it. See what happens. I bet it won't be a big deal.

[BrazenApogee]

I'd be honest. Using "when this happens I feel or think this" statements. Open the dialogue.

I understand not wanting a repeat of the bad T experience. My last T was a bad T, no boundaries. I let current T know about him in stages. And I am grateful that current T has good boundaries.

[LeeeLeee]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

Can you treat the fantasy like an intrusive thought and use DBT type skills?? I suffer from body dysmorphia and an eating disorder and sometimes I will have intrusive thoughts where I comparing my body to my Ts body ( female, close in age, athletic). These thoughts are unwanted, extremely disruptive to my therapy and connection, and generally not helped at all by talking about them.
With these thoughts often comes the feeling/fear that my T is secretly critical/ashamed of me.
I use my DBT skills. I tell myself these thoughts are not useful and focus on something else on in the room ( carpet pattern. Something like that) til I get it out of my head....

I am now looking up information about DBT skills. Thanks for posting this suggestion

[Longingforhome]

Thank you, Argonaut - so much to think about!

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

You know, if he's half as good as you say he is, being honest about this sort of thing won't destroy your relationship... That said, I really do empathize with how difficult that kind of honesty can be, how crazy and 'damaged goods' it can make you feel.

Yes, I think I know now that I want to raise it. Question is no longer if, but how.

But it's a big can of worms that goes beyond just asking him to move. There's so much tangled up
In it. I remembered last night about how XT used to tell me how sad it was that I felt the need to s****alize our relationship. I also feared that she was going to make a move on me, and that was her response when I raised it. She connected it to my history, rationalised it as transference. Trouble was, we were having a very intense (platonic) and intensifying relationship in the present and it did feel very slippery slope.

My T opens the door for me. We walk through multiple doors to get to his office and he opens every single one. I absolutely hate it--I have to pass much too close to him and he's, like, insanely tall so I feel like I'm passing under him, too. For six months I put up with this **** because, hey, only crazy people can't abide the basic courtesy of holding a door.

One day, I just couldn't do it. I said, "You can go first."

And you know what? He did. And didn't get all offended. Didn't give me a funny look. Didn't insist on analyzing the thing to a bloody pulp. He just went first and that was that. This nuance of human interaction I thought was a big deal? It wasn't. And that is so incredibly freeing
.

I love this! You are so brave that's exactly where I want to fast forward to. That and this:

You really can say, "Dude, can you back up a couple feet?" and have it not be a big deal. I'd say go for it--try it. See what happens. I bet it won't be a big deal.

Gold. But I don't think I can/should brush over this one right now. I think I am starting to get my answer. I would love to have the option of responding exactly like you describe, but to do that, I need to be a lot more sorted about how these things upend me, and not be so upended. Plus there's something right now about respect for myself and my sensitivities, as stupid and irritating as they feel.

Mindfulness model would suggest something like:

Acceptance: This is where I am at, no matter how much I wish I was more sorted/less fragile/not damaged/less sensitive.

Non-judgement: and I am not gonna beat myself up for those things (in this situation). And I can explore this without judging T before he has actually done anything, also, and the situation.

Compassion: this is hard and exposing and scary and uncertain for someone who's been through what I have. I need much self-kindness and caring and should double up on self care (actually doing some would be progress)

Be here now:this is not XT, not my parents, I am not 8 years old. I have been through so many things since then and learned so much, and I have new skills and strengths that can keep me safe and moored to reality and here, now.

Have run out of top-of-mind Mindful-isms but I am going to try to start here:

Something I am learning in T is that I can address things that scare me without getting myself caught up in motive, judging the other or letting my fears/past experience be the adjudicator for what is happening in my life now.

So reality right now is: T is (lolling back in the chair) relaxed and appears to be engaged and interested (lost???) in our dialogue. He's sprawled out a bit, with his legs closer to me than they used to be. I remain in my usual position, bunched up, as small as possible, legs crossed as a barrier, jammed into the arm of the couch.

How curious that his physical loosening up brings up so many difficult thoughts, feelings and fears for me. What might that be about (and one of the options is that sometimes something genuinely scary is going on)? Can I sit with that, keep it in my consciousness (not dissociate, push it away to 'make' things 'safe' so I can keep him as all-good) and so keep myself truly safe, and can I tentatively trust him to walk through this, with me?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Longingforhome]

Originally Posted by BrazenApogee

I'd be honest. Using "when this happens I feel or think this" statements. Open the dialogue.

I understand not wanting a repeat of the bad T experience. My last T was a bad T, no boundaries. I let current T know about him in stages. And I am grateful that current T has good boundaries.

Thanks, Brazen. It's hard, isn't it? I went online last night and searched in vain for 'wish therapist had tighter boundaries' and the like.

Crickets.

There is just nothing out there. But a deluge of 'I wish my T's boundaries were looser' and 'wish T was my friend'.

I totally get the desire and would judge nobody for it. Been there, done that. But having had the consequences....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BrazenApogee]

Crickets lol

I am one of the weird ones then. I like boundaries, they keep me safe. I like safe.

I cant give you any advice Longing but I understand the fear. I just wanted to say that you cant break anyone unless they allow it. I really hope that you find a t with good strong boundaries and ethics :HUG:

Your T sounds a lot like mine. Boundaried, accepting and very competent. Just like you I have feared the feelings I have developed towards him because I am scared of him not being able to handle the intensity of my feelings/yearnings and doing something that hurts me. Getting vulnerable is super scary (especially after a hurtful relationship with T1 where self-disclosure and general lack of boundaries were hugely painful for me).
I know next to nothing about my T too and have been uncomfortable on the couple of occasions he has mentioned anything, though I haven't said anything because it's vague and rare. Like "I went to a restaurant like that once". It still scares me though because of my past with T1.
I did speak up about one thing though - one session he seemed to be covering his mouth for the whole session which really bothered me. Like he was hiding his expression (I do the same thing for that reason so maybe that's why I thought that) but about 2/3 way into the session I said "there are still lots of things I struggle to tell you, like right now it's really bothering me that you are covering your mouth but that's hard for me to say to you". Framing it like that made it easier for me to say. (I spoke about my loving feelings towards him in a similarly 'third person' way).
He was fine about the mouth thing and just removed his hand and we talked about my tendency to do that to hide my emotions.
So I guess if you are curious about why it bothers you so much, broaching it with him might be helpful. Another technique I've used is to write things down in third person "It bothers me when he...and I feel like..." and I read it out to him as though I'm talking about someone else. Takes the sting out of it for me, and I don't know whether this or something similar might work for you.
I'm glad to hear you have a good T. I hope therapy continues to be useful to you.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by Longingforhome

I think I am starting to get my answer. I would love to have the option of responding exactly like you describe, but to do that, I need to be a lot more sorted about how these things upend me, and not be so upended. Plus there's something right now about respect for myself and my sensitivities, as stupid and irritating as they feel.

Mindfulness model would suggest something like:

Acceptance: This is where I am at, no matter how much I wish I was more sorted/less fragile/not damaged/less sensitive.

Non-judgement: and I am not gonna beat myself up for those things (in this situation). And I can explore this without judging T before he has actually done anything, also, and the situation.

Compassion: this is hard and exposing and scary and uncertain for someone who's been through what I have. I need much self-kindness and caring and should double up on self care (actually doing some would be progress)

Be here now:this is not XT, not my parents, I am not 8 years old. I have been through so many things since then and learned so much, and I have new skills and strengths that can keep me safe and moored to reality and here, now.

Have run out of top-of-mind Mindful-isms but I am going to try to start here:

Something I am learning in T is that I can address things that scare me without getting myself caught up in motive, judging the other or letting my fears/past experience be the adjudicator for what is happening in my life now.

So reality right now is: T is (lolling back in the chair) relaxed and appears to be engaged and interested (lost???) in our dialogue. He's sprawled out a bit, with his legs closer to me than they used to be. I remain in my usual position, bunched up, as small as possible, legs crossed as a barrier, jammed into the arm of the couch.

How curious that his physical loosening up brings up so many difficult thoughts, feelings and fears for me. What might that be about (and one of the options is that sometimes something genuinely scary is going on)? Can I sit with that, keep it in my consciousness (not dissociate, push it away to 'make' things 'safe' so I can keep him as all-good) and so keep myself truly safe, and can I tentatively trust him to walk through this, with me?

This is lovely. I think you're starting to get your answer, too.

[Longingforhome]

Thanks, Mona and Echoes - it's so good not to feel alone. I see him tomorrow so will report back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Longingforhome]

Oh, it worked: good! I couldn't post before, it wouldn't let me.

Other thought I have been mulling is about drama, intensity and re-enactment. Part of what I really value about this T relationship is I feel I have understanding and compassion from him without drama. It doesn't have that crazy push/pull of so much of my past.

I wonder if getting too deep into this will drag us down into drama? Where right now I feel like our relationship (wow, I admit there is on) is sort of protected against all that.

He made a really interesting comment last time when I said I felt so guilty that my 'affair' with XT took so much away from my family. He said maybe it saved it, since I played out all the drama and crazy with her and kept it out of home. I thought that was really interesting.

Sigh. This is a lot to work out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Longingforhome]

Ok, so I met with him and talked about it. He was really good: thanked me for coming back and for talking about it. He knows how hard it is. He wondered if maybe the s'ual aspects of it are because we've gone quite fast and covered a lot of ground lately, and it's scaring me. Too intrusive. Could be.
I couldn't even look at him all session and I felt very ashamed.

I thought a lot afterwards, and I think the r*pe thing is like an extreme visual rendering of what I feel: I do feel he is too close, too interested in me, too 'lost' in me, almost. And that does scare me. I am so happy to be understood but now it comes with this huge price of threat and fear.

And I can no longer see him as kind or compassionate: just as the cruel, laughing person in the horrible pictures in my head.
I don't know if I can get through this, it feels like the 'him' that was there for me has been replaced with this new version, and I don't know who the real one is even though nothing has changed about him, outside of my head.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Longingforhome]

So I'm thinking about taking a break. That way if he is too interested in me, he could have some space and time to sort himself out. And if it's not that...we reduce the intensity, and hopefully I get less scared.

I wish I'd done that with exT. It could have changed the whole outcome if she had just taken the time and space to reflect about what was going on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk