[PinkFlamingo99]

I feel in major trouble. I'm scared.

The group therapist said today that I've created a world so full of magical thibking and rules that make no sense that control how i act that it's like i have a hard time understanding how things work outside my head and in reality. We were disagreeing about whether it's morally okay for me to do what i want to my own body.

He says im living in a made up world and I don't see things in reality. I know I'm sad and destructuve but never thought of myself as out of touch with reality if i go this far. They'll probably eveb refuse to see me for psychiatry because im not trying hard enough to get better.

I'm obsessing about hurting myself really badly. At what point does this become warped thinking i stead of normal SH? My head hurtS because I don' want to let everyone down. I don't want all my support will leave but I think they will. It makes me sad and scared. I don't want them to think I don't appreciate the help & suppport they give me but i have SUCH A STRONG URGE/obsession.

I don't know... Rambling. I feel unwell and in trouble.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

I feel in major trouble. I'm scared.

The group therapist said today that I've created a world so full of magical thibking and rules that make no sense that control how i act that it's like i have a hard time understanding how things work outside my head and in reality. We were disagreeing about whether it's morally okay for me to do what i want to my own body.

He says im living in a made up world and I don't see things in reality. I know I'm sad and destructuve but never thought of myself as out of touch with reality if i go this far. They'll probably eveb refuse to see me for psychiatry because im not trying hard enough to get better.

I'm obsessing about hurting myself really badly. At what point does this become warped thinking i stead of normal SH? My head hurtS because I don' want to let everyone down. I don't want all my support will leave but I think they will. It makes me sad and scared.

I don't know... Rambling. I feel unwell and in trouble.

The magical thinking and rules sound like OCD--you've been officially diagnosed with that, right? Trying to remember. Is it possible they could try you on either an additional medication or a different one? Ideally while in the hospital in case you have side effects. It doesn't seem fair that they say you're not trying to do enough to get better, yet you're just put in the hospital with little support/therapy, and the p-doc won't increase your meds or give you different ones. I mean, if you had, say, cancer, they wouldn't be like, "She's not trying to get better enough on her own, so let's not do the chemo anymore." I wish there was a way you could go someplace and be safe while also having support.

And I don't think it's that you're out of touch with reality but that you're in so much pain, you can't handle that along with regular life. How does it help you to tell you you're living in a made-up world?

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[PinkFlamingo99]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

The magical thinking and rules sound like OCD--you've been officially diagnosed with that, right? Trying to remember. Is it possible they could try you on either an additional medication or a different one? Ideally while in the hospital in case you have side effects. It doesn't seem fair that they say you're not trying to do enough to get better, yet you're just put in the hospital with little support/therapy, and the p-doc won't increase your meds or give you different ones. I mean, if you had, say, cancer, they wouldn't be like, "She's not trying to get better enough on her own, so let's not do the chemo anymore." I wish there was a way you could go someplace and be safe while also having support.

And I don't think it's that you're out of touch with reality but that you're in so much pain, you can't handle that along with regular life. How does it help you to tell you you're living in a made-up world?

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They changed my diagnosis to BPD and now they refuse to treat it medically. They don't care or don't GET my level of obsession because that's what makes me want out of my life. Bpd is supposed to be treated with psychotherapy so nobody will help me with the anxiety and obsession behind it.

[ThisWayOut]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

They changed my diagnosis to BPD and now they refuse to treat it medically. They don't care or don't GET my level of obsession because that's what makes me want out of my life. Bpd is supposed to be treated with psychotherapy so nobody will help me with the anxiety and obsession behind it.

Wow, they are quite out of touch there. Any chance you can get placed in a different hospital? Just because you have a bpd dx, it doesn't negate the other stuff. Also, bpd generally stems from severe trauma as a kid... wtf... this place sounds awful... I'm sorry you are going through all this, and with so little support.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

They changed my diagnosis to BPD and now they refuse to treat it medically. They don't care or don't GET my level of obsession because that's what makes me want out of my life. Bpd is supposed to be treated with psychotherapy so nobody will help me with the anxiety and obsession behind it.

Ugh, that's ridiculous. I was under the impression that BPD can coexist with other mental illnesses, like OCD, depression, anxiety, etc. So it would seem like they could try to treat coexisting/comorbid conditions with medication. I mean, I have panic disorder, generalized anxiety, OCD, and recurring major depression. It's not like they said "Well, you have panic disorder, so you can't be depressed" or something. I know BPD is considered a personality disorder, so it's a little different maybe in how they view it? But if what they're doing isn't helping you, I just don't get why they aren't willing to try something different...

[ScarletPimpernel]

BPD is always coupled with other disorders (depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc.) most of which are treated by medication. If you have obsessive thoughts, there are medications that can help with that. I take Latuda for my SUI and SI thoughts. It helps. I also take Ativan PRN when I need extra help.

There's 3 types of SI. Stereotypic is what you would see in autism: rythmic head banging. Superficial is the type of SI that is common with BPD: cutting, burning, etc. The third is Major which includes things like amputation and is associated with psychosis. There might be a 4th if you include the OCD types of trichotillomania and dermotillomania.

It's just my opinion, but I think you'd be considered major. Your SI is extreme. It's not superfical for sure, and it's not like the common OCD SI. And maybe it is due to psychosis? Could explain why you're not finding any relief from therapy and common meds. Have you tried any anti-psychotics? That's what Latuda is.

I'm not trying to diagnose you btw. Just giving you info that might help you along your path.

I do wish you well.

[PinkFlamingo99]

They are treating me with meds but they refuse to try new things and obviously a ton of it is on me and doing the "work" like worksheets. I honestly think they disxharged me becausze I cut badly on a day pass.

And yeah, they acknowledge thebcoexisting OCD, depression, but they keep saying thecself-harm is the most important right now becauseth it's dangerous and that is BPD. Thr stupid thing is I feel likd I cut because of the OCD.

There are no other inpatient options. They are all part of the larger hospital system of the city I live in, working together.

[PinkFlamingo99]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

BPD is always coupled with other disorders (depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc.) most of which are treated by medication. If you have obsessive thoughts, there are medications that can help with that. I take Latuda for my SUI and SI thoughts. It helps. I also take Ativan PRN when I need extra help.

There's 3 types of SI. Stereotypic is what you would see in autism: rythmic head banging. Superficial is the type of SI that is common with BPD: cutting, burning, etc. The third is Major which includes things like amputation and is associated with psychosis. There might be a 4th if you include the OCD types of trichotillomania and dermotillomania.

It's just my opinion, but I think you'd be considered major
. Your SI is extreme. It's not superfical for sure, and it's not like the common OCD SI. And maybe itis due to psychosis? Could explain why you're not finding any relief from therauypy and common meds. Have you tried any anti-psychotics? That's what Latuda is.l

I'm not trying to diagnose you btw. Just giving you info that might help you along your path.

I do wish you well.

Yes I have been on Seroquel for a long timr and at a high dose it did help. Is this the psychosis they talk about going with BPD? Do I sound quasipsychotic? I'm so lost. I was already considering going up to 400 mg Seroquel again. My old pdoc lowered it because it was doing bad things to my labs but I've lost 100 lbs since then.

[PinkFlamingo99]

I'm so tired from the days of IV antibiotics. I think my body is exhausted. Fighting the i fection.7

[PinkFlamingo99]

I'm on meds so it's not like I'm on nothing but they are so reluctant to change:

Parnate
Neurontin
Seroquel
Rivotril (not Prn)
ativan (prn)

[ThisWayOut]

If they ate concerned about the sh,could you get into a us program? There's one specifically for sh, and they say they are aware of all the possible reasons for sh,and they treat accordingly. It's the SAFE Alternatives program...

[MobiusPsyche]

Thinking that self injury is helpful or provides some real kind of relief could be distorted thinking. You haven't talked much on here about magical thinking or rules, but it could be something to explore.

I'm sorry that you're in this situation but if new providers aren't an option maybe the answer is to cooperate fully with the providers you have? I seriously doubt they're just trying to be mean to you; I think they're doing what they think is the best thing to help you. It might not be what you want but a little acceptance goes a long way.

I've been following your posts since I joined and it's clear you're in significant pain and it's equally clear that nothing they've tried so far has helped. Again, I'm sorry you're going through this but maybe you can find a way to get something positive out of it. Ask them what concrete steps you can and should take. "Stop magical thinking" isn't a concrete step. It's a goal.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

Yes I have been on Seroquel for a long timr and at a high dose it did help. Is this the psychosis they talk about going with BPD? Do I sound quasipsychotic? I'm so lost. I was already considering going up to 400 mg Seroquel again. My old pdoc lowered it because it was doing bad things to my labs but I've lost 100 lbs since then.

I don't know if you're psychotic or not. Maybe just the way you are about your SI. Maybe a little? I don't think completely though. You actually seem high-functioning if you don't consider the SI. I'm not psychotic, but take an anti-psychotic for my thoughts. It's the only thing that helps it.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

I'm on meds so it's not like I'm on nothing but they are so reluctant to change:

Parnate
Neurontin
Seroquel
Rivotril (not Prn)
ativan (prn)

So, I wasn't familiar with Rivotril (it goes by Klonopin in the US apparently), I looked it up. First thing listed under it on Google is:
"Can cause paranoid or suicidal ideation and impair memory, judgment, and coordination." Also under side effects, the first one is "abnormal thinking (disorientation, delusions, or loss of sense of reality)."

So I wonder if part of why you're feeling so badly could partly be drug side effects? Especially when combined with other meds. (I've had some bad psychological side effects from psych meds before, particularly SNRIs and Wellbutrin). Maybe talk about reducing one of your doses? Though I know you have to be careful with benzos...

[PinkFlamingo99]

I actually love it. I've never been allowed benzos before. The obsession started before it and it does help.

The thing is, it means so much that ppl care but

Possible trigger:

I know I will do it

And then i think i will lose all my help and be given up on for being too sck. all this support will go away.

[MobiusPsyche]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

Yes I have been on Seroquel for a long timr and at a high dose it did help. Is this the psychosis they talk about going with BPD? Do I sound quasipsychotic? I'm so lost. I was already considering going up to 400 mg Seroquel again. My old pdoc lowered it because it was doing bad things to my labs but I've lost 100 lbs since then.

The psychosis with BPD is transient and in response to identified stressors. I don't think that's what they're referring to.

My T has referred to a particular negative belief of mine as delusional. Yes, technically a delusion is psychotic, but I don't think she's saying I'm psychotic. She's trying to call out how very much my belief is at odds with reality. The belief doesn't change no matter what evidence there is to the contrary. (the belief that I am a horrible person) The point is, I didn't get upset about whether she was calling me psychotic or not...I reflected on how strongly I cling to that belief no matter what, and I got her point that this belief is really getting in my way. And that it doesn't accurately reflect reality.

Isn't your belief that self injury will help, that self injury is a way to cope, isn't that a really strong belief? That you hold onto despite tons of evidence that it doesn't really make anything better and in fact makes them worse? Isn't that a delusional belief?

I don't think that makes you psychotic. But honestly I do think your thinking is really distorted right now.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. I'm trying to be supportive and as gentle as I can be.

[LonesomeTonight]

Possible trigger:

When you say "I know I will do it," do you mean SH or something more severe than that?

[PinkFlamingo99]

Possible trigger:

if i can cut with an electric saw and really harm myself, it will be enough and I won't want to kill myself or die anymore. And I'm not doing anything "wrong" because it's mybody and I have the right to do whatevee I want with my own body. The rules are stuff like I can do wgat i want to myself but i cant harm anyone else in any way, i cant tell anyone I'm going to do it right before I do it, i can't call for help no matter how bad, I can take a taxi to the hospital but they hate me in the ER for wasting their time so I have to apologize and put myself down, I can only stay impatient if they force me with a court petition.

[Luce]

Dude! Who gave you such effed up rules to live by!! Someone sure needs to throw out that rule book and start over again. Yeah, yeah, I get you prolly gave them to yourself. But wtf? Someone sure didn't treat you right when it mattered most. Basterds.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

Possible trigger:

if i can cut with an electric saw and really harm myself, it will be enough and I won't want to kill myself or die anymore. And I'm not doing anything "wrong" because it's mybody and I have the right to do whatevee I want with my own body. The rules are stuff like I can do wgat i want to myself but i cant harm anyone else in any way, i cant tell anyone I'm going to do it right before I do it, i can't call for help no matter how bad, I can take a taxi to the hospital but they hate me in the ER for wasting their time so I have to apologize and put myself down.

That is serious, Pink. I am not a doctor, so I have zero idea if you are considered delusional or psychotic, but this is some not normal thinking. First, the level of SH you do is extremely serious and goes beyond what I think most people think of SH. (I could be wrong)

Also...I think where you go wrong in your thinking is that if you do the ultimate terrible version of SH that you can think of, that it will be enough. Guess what? I t won't! SH is an addiction, and yours is got to be as close to rock bottom or death as it can be. That is scary, and probably a bit delusional--same with any addict who is that severe.

[growlycat]

I'm concerned too pink. Any way you can get yourself far enough away from home so you are not put in the same hospital? Like drive to the next town or state then check in? There has to be an inpatient place somewhere that doesn't suck. Others here have had some good experience with places that deal with trauma

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by velcro003

That is serious, Pink. I am not a doctor, so I have zero idea if you are considered delusional or psychotic, but this is some not normal thinking. First, the level of SH you do is extremely serious and goes beyond what I think most people think of SH. (I could be wrong)

Also...I think where you go wrong in your thinking is that if you do the ultimate terrible version of SH that you can think of, that it will be enough. Guess what? I t won't! SH is an addiction, and yours is got to be as close to rock bottom or death as it can be. That is scary, and probably a bit delusional--same with any addict who is that severe.

That's what concerned me, too--that the SH, no matter how severe, still won't be enough (assuming you'd survive it...) I wonder if it would help to see a specialist in addiction or something like that? I also like the suggestion to maybe try a different hospital in a nearby city/town. Like if you went to the ER there? I'm not sure how the Canadian health system works, if they'd make you go back to your local one or not, but could be worth a shot. You just need that one p-doc or T to see another way to help you.

Have you talked to your current T at all? Does she have any ideas?

[atisketatasket]

Pink - were you this bad before your weight loss? I'm asking because extreme weight loss plays havoc with the hormones, which in turn can play havoc with your mental health.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Pink - were you this bad before your weight loss? I'm asking because extreme weight loss plays havoc with the hormones, which in turn can play havoc with your mental health.

Good thought...And it could affect your med dosages too--not sure when you went on each of those.

[Lauliza]

I notice you take parnate. I took it for a couple of years on two separate instances. Both times, although my depression lifted somewhat, my obsessive thoughts and self destructive behaviors got much worse. Most recently (about 8 years ago), SH behavior which I hadn't engaged in in over 15 years resurfaced. My ED also resurfaced in full force. Not that I can diagnose, but it may be worth a thought? The only thing that has helped the thoughts and behavior for me are SSRIs- most notably Zoloft, but Paxil worked well too. In my experience, Parnate was stimulating and Unfortunately can worsen anxiety.