[rainbow8]

This is so stupid but I want to find out who T's bf is. I am used to looking for needles in haystacks. I have a first name and the fact that he's a T and lives in my city or nearby. I know something else besides the actor he looks like but I don't want to divulge that. Now it's a challenge to me but I know it's unproductive and wasting my time. If T told me I'd know and then I wouldn't have to find him. I don't think it's about the picture; it's about knowing who he is.

I know I'm crossing T's boundaries but I still want to find him. The first name isn't so common but I don't see any possibilities when I google. I found one but I think he's too young for T.

I realize this thread sets me up for all kinds of attacks. I hope maybe some understanding too.

[healed84]

I have to say that while I do understand your curiosity.. I think it is time to sit down and explore with your t why you have such a hard time with people putting boundaries in place in the first place. Maybe it doesn't have so much to do with who the bf is as much as t has said she doesn't want to share that info with you.. And that is what triggers you.

[Argonautomobile]

Ugh. I hate when I get into obsessive Googling. I've not really had this happen with my T so much as others I've met at various times in my life. It's so weird how curiosity sometimes turns into this burning need to know, and the wilder the goose chase, the less you have to go on, the more insistent the need gets.

For me--and this is only for me, it may or may not resonate with you--I've noticed this is a by-product of having too much time on my hands, or of that uncomfortable restlessness you get when you can't figure out how to direct your energy.

I've never found beating myself up about it really helped. Or analyzing it, either. The judgement's not coming from anybody but yourself, anyway. And analyzing just perpetuated the obsession. I try and force myself to do something else for a bit. Maybe go outside or something. This usually dissolves for me pretty quickly when I find something productive / interesting to do with myself.

Good luck.

Stop, accept, and respect your T's very reasonable personal boundary. It is personal to her to keep that information private. I know you respect her; this is part of that respect.

[skeksi]

It's frustrating when people set boundaries, but respecting your T's limit (which she appears to have thought through carefully) is a way to show you value her and your relationship with her.

Instead of focusing on identifying him, what if you focus on understanding what you would get out of knowing? Are you seeking closeness to your T? How else could you achieve that?

I worry about you pushing the boundary because it may cause your T to respond in ways that will reduce your closeness.

[Nammu]

So by calling yourself stupid and saying you need to do this, you are giving yourself permission to violate boundaries? Perhaps you would be better served by telling yourself that you do not need to do this, that you will survive and Flourish by respecting your Ts boundaries.

[JaneTennison1]

I would say that if you expect her to respect your boundaries then you should respect hers.

I do also agree that over analyzing yourself won't help and neither does beating yourself. Accept it and then try and distract from it.

[ADeepSandbox]

I know this must be really difficult. I'm sorry you're struggling with it.

Just an observation: When other people here have googled things about their therapists while knowing their therapist may not want them to, they usually seem to emotionally end up worse off than before or even panicked or in crisis because then they're dealing with the guilt and anxiety over wanting to tell their therapist about their actions but being afraid to. It kind of seems to perpetuate a cycle of instability that either ends with a rupture in the relationship when the therapist reacts negatively, or the person confesses and has to go through talking that out with their therapist and maybe getting reassurance that they broke the boundary but their therapist isn't going to abandon them.

So before you do this, maybe just ask yourself first how you see this playing out for you and your therapist and what you want to get out of it? Is seeing a photo of this guy who isn't involved in your life and doesn't know you, worth whatever fallout you might have to deal with in terms of the relationship you have with your therapist? Is it possible you're repeating a pattern here of some sort?

If you're having trouble getting your mind off of the metaphorical elephant in the room, do you have some activities or hobbies you could try?

Regardless of what you decide, I hope it works out for you and that you get something positive from it!

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

This is so stupid but I want to find out who T's bf is. I am used to looking for needles in haystacks. I have a first name and the fact that he's a T and lives in my city or nearby. I know something else besides the actor he looks like but I don't want to divulge that. Now it's a challenge to me but I know it's unproductive and wasting my time. If T told me I'd know and then I wouldn't have to find him. I don't think it's about the picture; it's about knowing who he is.

I know I'm crossing T's boundaries but I still want to find him. The first name isn't so common but I don't see any possibilities when I google. I found one but I think he's too young for T.

I realize this thread sets me up for all kinds of attacks. I hope maybe some understanding too.

What if the problem is not about needing to see a picture, or about your therapist's boundaries? What if it's that your therapist is encouraging you to get to the bottom of a compulsion that takes many forms? Because if it's not the picture of her boyfriend, it will be something else (or could be, if the pattern holds).

[JaneTennison1]

I wonder if you want to push her, in a way you know she will find unacceptable, to see if she will go away or reject you? (I do this a lot so wondering - not judging)

[unaluna]

I think it goes back to your relationship with your family, but thats my freudian hammer!

[growlycat]

No judgement from me. I have the same urges to learn as much as I can about t's personal life yet the answers are bound to make me feel hurt or jealous.

[Luce]

I wonder if reframing it might be helpful... as in instead of using this need to see and know who her boyfriend is in an effort to get closer to her, what about getting closer to her by respecting her boundary? It is a gift to her to respect her boundary. It has the potential to bring you closer together rather than further apart. It is an act of love for her to know her boundary and honor it. It has the potential to make you more trustworthy in her eyes.
What is it like if you imagine yourself fighting against that urge to unmask him and saying to T "I know you didn't want to show me so I stopped searching for him out of respect for you." How would it feel to be t and hear that? How would she react? How would you feel about her reaction? How would that affect your relationship? How would it strengthen it?
I think there is unexplored potential for change there. because respecting her boundary has the potential to strengthen your relationship in trust and commitment.
To be respected is such a gift.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I don't think it's about the picture; it's about knowing who he is.

And what would constitute "knowing who he is" if not the picture?

If you really want to find him on your own based on publicly available information, then why don't you try what you can? See if giving in to the obsession leads to any sort of satisfaction, whether coming from succeeding or failing with the research.

[brillskep]

You don't have to find him even if your therapist doesn't tell you.

I wonder, where does this need to know come from? Are you aware what the reason for it is? What does it mean for the process you and your therapist are involved in together? What might be its significance in your life? That would probably be very useful for you to be aware of, whether or not you look this guy up. (You don't need to answer me, I'm just saying this because I personally find questions useful to help me think and decide in difficult situations).

We're all different and it's up to you what to do. I just want to say though, without knowing all the details (so I may be wrong), but maybe your therapist has a very good reason not to tell you who her boyfriend is, even beside her own personal boundaries. I got to know my therapist's ex girlfriend when they were together and it caused me a whole lot of issues in my therapy, in my studies, in my private life. I learned a lot from my difficulties but I think my therapy would have been a safer space for me had I not known who his girlfriend was.

Now your experience will probably be different. I'm just saying, sometimes, even if not knowing may trigger a lot of curiosity and fantasies, knowing can be worse in a very intense long-term therapy relationship, like mine was and like yours also seems to be. So please keep that in mind too when you decide whether or not to look him up.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I know I'm crossing T's boundaries but I still want to find him. The first name isn't so common but I don't see any possibilities when I google. I found one but I think he's too young for T.

I'm not sure it's about crossing her boundaries. I've done what you've done, googled information about my T based on isolated facts, including googling her wife. I knew her first name, that she taught at the local university, and what her field was (it was one of those fields where it could have been several departments). Didn't take long to find her, and I thought I was correct for several years until T mentioned one day that she taught at a university an hour and a half away.

The only difference between what I did and what you are doing is that I didn't ask T for her wife's name. I think that asking for what you want from people, including T, is actually bold and a healthy thing to do.

But it does set you up for what you're experiencing now, which is being "rejected" by her not doing what you want. And you probably know that you could google until the end of time, but unless he's got a very uncommon name and you live in a very small town without other towns a reasonable distance away, the only way you can really know for sure is for T to confirm it.

Maybe it's about how you handle a situation where you feel rejected or someone close to you doesn't do what you want. I think part of the therapy zeitgeist is that we expect that our therapists will do what we want, that we will get from them what no one has has given us or what people have given us that we do not want: respect, love, understanding, etc. But then they say "no" directly or they say it indirectly by not following the approach we want or expect and boom, it really hurts.

For me, I learned that I was good at choosing people who didn't naturally give me what I wanted. And my T was very good at giving me what I wanted-- control over the sessions, making me feel normal at what felt like bizarre PTSD reactions to the world, etc. But then she didn't, and I asked her to do it differently, and she wouldn't and that felt horrible. Even when I understood that she couldn't compromise herself to give me what I wanted.

And it is still a work in progress, but it did become important to me to not force what I wanted from other people in the service of getting what I wanted. I became more about (I do not by any means have this figured out) accepting what people offered me and not freaking out when they said no. I learned that my go-to strategy was more manipulation than straight out asking, and also that sometimes I was asking, but it was more demanding. And that when I asked, I had to be willing to hear no. That people could love and support me and say no at the same time, and rejection wasn't the end of the world.

I don't of course know whether any of this applies to you, I am just explaining how it was for me.

Oh Rainbow I do understand. I have done some detective work with my own t many times. I always find what I am looking for, I make judgements about what I think I know from what I learn but I am far from the truth. It hurts but I still do it, I have never told my t I do it because it would absolutely lead to my termination. I do it to distract me from my own problems, it usually works for a little while but then I feel worse. I beat myself up and feel guilty. I tell myself I am an awful person with no impulse control but it also helps to know that my ts family are not perfect, they are a little insane. My t is very open about her children and family and this doesn't help. I think it encourages my curiosity. Sometimes I wish my t were more more blank slate but then it wouldn't be a real relationship.

I don't know why this is a boundary-exploring information online about who you are curious about. Didn't she introduce the fact she had this boyfriend?

Don't you have a boundary that others can't tell you what or what not to do with your free time?

I'd be distressed over wasting my time over non-productive things too. What would you be doing if you weren't spending time obsessing over this?

[unaluna]

separates out the obsessive or compulsive (ie freudian!) nature of the activity, choices, etc.

This is a good idea. My therapist always tells me to go towards the direction of the anxiety, rather than away from it.

Going with it, instead of against it, can also help stop the pattern. These types of obsessions are driven by conflict. And going against them strengthens them

I think making it about 'boundaries' might be what is keeping you in this pattern as it is strengthening it by making it 'wrong'. The need to do it + the conflict about it doing 'wrong' (guilt) are the elements that make the OC loop.

Maybe explore why it feels wrong to you, then deal with the guilt, then give up just that one part. Then you will be left with just the need to do it without getting all distressed and obsessive about it.

Doing it isn't unsafe or hurting anyone. Your therapist's boundary is to not tell you a name, not to control you. If my therapist has a boundary that he won't listen to his favorite song with me in session, I am still free to listen to it to my heart's content outside of session.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

And what would constitute "knowing who he is" if not the picture?

If you really want to find him on your own based on publicly available information, then why don't you try what you can? See if giving in to the obsession leads to any sort of satisfaction, whether coming from succeeding or failing with the research.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Skies

I don't know why this is a boundary-exploring information online about who you are curious about. Didn't she introduce the fact she had this boyfriend?

Don't you have a boundary that others can't tell you what or what not to do with your free time?

I'd be distressed over wasting my time over non-productive things too. What would you be doing if you weren't spending time obsessing over this?

I think some T's see it as a boundary. My T was bothered that I Googled her a few weeks ago, saying I'd crossed a boundary. Yes, I found a pic of her H, but he used to work at the same practice as her (he's retired now), so if I'd been going there at that time, I'd know what he looked like anyway. And I did find T's FB page, but it was totally locked down, so I couldn't actually *see* anything.

Meanwhile, when I told my marriage counselor about my Googling him--and finding his wife's FB page (also locked down, but did see a family photo on there), his immediate response was that he forgave me. He was concerned regarding something I could have found about his wife--her sister apparently has a FB page about her, presumably with updates on her health condition (I know a little about that, but not from Googling). But that wasn't what I found.

So he asked me not to go looking around anymore about her, but I get the sense it's more because he's concerned about how finding more info on that would affect me (due to my transference/attachment). Rather than it being his privacy he was concerned about. Which was the sense I got from my T. Like *she* personally felt violated. (She never said she forgave me, incidentally.) Whereas MC was more worried about *my* reaction to finding certain things.

ETA: I have respected his wishes and not Googled him/his wife anymore. I'm thinking of it as, I care about him, so I should respect his wishes. (Even though now I *know* there's something out there to find, which must have lots of info because he's worried about me seeing it.) It helps that he's also open to my asking him anything, though there are certain things he won't answer. But he's good with discussing *why* I want to know, which it seems like your T, Rainbow, is maybe a bit less open to. I didn't feel as comfortable talking to my T about why I wanted to know stuff, because it felt like what I'd done had upset her, like "I'd been bad" (I do have some negative maternal transference toward her at times). MC being forgiving made me feel safer talking about it.

Rainbow, your T seems to be sending very mixed signals, with giving you bits of information (like what he looks like), so I can definitely see where that would make you want to explore more. Out of curiosity, did your parents or others in your life keep lots of secrets from you as a kid? I think that's a big part of it for me--particularly since my mom was secretive about health issues (physical and mental) of hers and other family members. So MC or T being secretive is a bit triggering for me--particular with MC regarding his wife's health.

One of the main issues I've worked on with my last therapist (very successfully) are obsessional tendencies. I also experienced addiction problems (food, substance) that are a bit different but psychologically definitely related to my obsessions and why I get into them. I never had similar internal conflicts or disagreements with my T regarding obtaining information on them - I simply never asked them these kinds of personal questions. But I used the totally legally and publicly available info on the internet to search about them all kinds of things. Never even occurred to me before reading these kinds of posts on PC that this is a potential problem or something maybe wrong? I mean, in this era everyone researches stuff on the web, people, places, things... whatever. I know as fact that my coworkers, job candidates and friends search me all the time and I am sure there are also people I don't even know of. What's wrong with that, really? My responsiility, and boundary, is what I put out there and how.

I personally think the T's boundary here is also that she won't reveal the bf's identity more than she already has in an interpersonal way. But public info on the web has nothing to do with her boundary, IMO... well it has, as far as deciding what to share with the world.

Maybe I process these things differently from others but I just can't see significant difference between searching professional info on a therapist about their practice and whatever else they care to put out there for anyone to explore. It's not the T's business what I read in my private time. It is their business to decide what to discuss with clients and how and to discuss with me what causes issues and roadblocks in my life.

I definitely have experienced a lot of uneasiness and also practical problems due to spending too much time researching "useless" information on the internet, also tend to use this activity to avoid dealing with many pressing problems if I don't control it consciously. Same for online interactions. For me this has been an escape and avoidance mechanism, seeking what I imagine will be instant gratification...not moral conflicts. This is what I spent a lot of time discussing with my T, why I tend to do this and how I could change the behavior. With time, we co-created a pretty effective system to help me reduce this behavior and actually lose my interest in it, using our between sessions email communication... but that's a different topic so I'll stop here.

Rainbow, you seem to have (at least partially) different conflicts about all this. I suggested that you try the search you so much desire simply in order to learn about your motives on your own and also to see whether it provides you with anything rewarding or beneficial. For me, the obsessions and compulsions typically never lead to true satisfaction, mostly new obsessions and distractions.

[Elio]

I have been reading the responses to this thread with various levels of agreement and pondering. I think there are good points all the way around.

Rainbow, what did you end up doing? Did it satisfy your needs, make things worse, how did it change you? Did you learn anything about yourself in the process? How do you feel about yourself now? If you didn't get the outcome you had hoped for, any thing come up that might help you realize that this is an exercise in futility. If you did get the outcome you had hoped for (ie find out/learning about the bf) are you satisfied and what was enough?

[stopdog]

I actually think all the angst over internet searching therapists/people connected to them is a bit over the top. Just do it and go on with your life if one is that curious about those people. It is not hurting the therapist any.
I find the more curious part to me to be the urge to confess (which is what is seems like people are doing when they tell the therapist) to the therapist - why bother with that part?
I find that to be more pathological than the original searching.

[atisketatasket]

I'm not sure anyone, including a therapist, has the right to set a boundary when they're only indirectly affected.

I mean, if you were staking out her house trying to catch a glimpse of him, that would be different (to me anyway). But she can't control whether or not you search the internet in private, on your own time, to find out what he looks like.