[growlycat]

I am wondering if anyone here ever had a t they adored and had a good rapport with but found them kind of ineffective as a therapist. How long did it go on? Did they get better, improve in time?

It may be an irrational fear or maybe not, that my t and I have great rapport but aren't really getting anywhere. I know it is still a fairly new relationship. He will never be Sparky, my old t with a very take charge kind of style I grew to love. Kashi is very laid back and I fear he treats me like a friend too much. I do get something out of seeing him but right now that consists of pleasant and funny conversation, comfort and consistency. Not bad things it just doesn't seem like enough.

Thoughts welcome!

[unaluna]

Is that unconditional positive regard or what? At first i was telling my t he could yell at me, and he was like, he doesnt yell because it doesnt work.

[captgut]

Well, I think nothing and nobody can help me. But i love my T and enjoy talking with him.

I think it's ineffective, but only bcs of me. I'm paying just for seeing him...his smile. I enjoy this.

XT always thought every session was productive because of her main modality. It's thought that healing happens through the relationship weather your dealing with hard stuff or talking about why the sky is blue. Supposedly they model what a "healthy" relationship is supposed to look like. Is Kashi psychodynamic? If so, it's all talk talk talk with the client leading the conversation. You can try asking Kashi to be more proactive and help with keeping your focus on what you are there for. The worse Kashi will say is it's your therapy and you drive it. But after awhile if you don't think it's taking care of your core issues, then there is nothing wrong with calling other Ts to see if they offer a more structured approach. Please understand that everything I posted here about my termination with XT is just MY experience. Try not to internalize what you read here and don't be afraid to speak with Kashi is something is not working. I think more often than not therapists have other tricks up their sleeve to help their client and if they don't-they will be honest with you in a way that will not traumatize you more and help you find what you need. I truly believe that any therapy relationship that ends badly has more to do with therapist than the client or at least they play an equal part.

[atisketatasket]

Maybe, growly, this would be a good experiment in you taking charge of a relationship? Ideally, the therapist is just a tool (in the neutral sense of the word), not the builder.

Yes, I had a similar therapist for 2 years. We chatted more as friends. She was supportive, and I enjoyed talking with her, so it helped in that sense, but there were no 'results' so to speak. It started to become irritating. I think if you find yourself talking about your problems to your hairdresser, mechanic, co-workers, etc, or feel like you are burdening your friends, it can be useful to have someone like that. But if you want to get at the root of your problems, I don't think so.

But I started dreading going to sessions. I was a super busy person, and it seemed like a waste of time and money. So after 2 years, I just quit.

I also encourage you to talk with him about this. Although not speaking specificially of Kashi here, I do think some therapists are just not cut out for more deep work, regardless of what the client does.

Another idea I wanted to share with you-I am questioning myself about the utility of attachment related depth work. I once read that it's the regression in psychoanalytic therapy, where you feel like a child, that allows for healing opportunities. You won't get that from 'chatting' sessions, no matter how you direct the therapy if you are with someone who doesn't work like that or who thinks you don't have the ego resources to undergo that.

However, I think that regression can also lead to a lot of unnecessary months or years of painful therapy because feeling of abandonment and rejection can go on for a long time, depending on how rigid vs flexible; exploratory vs supportive a therapist works. Outside of the transference, it can lead to much harm and add an attachment injury on top of attachment injury. It has a lot of potential to backfire.

Maybe you have a good thing with Kashi. Talk with him and see what happens.

[velcro003]

I pretty much stayed in mostly ineffective therapy for 4 years too long (after 5 years i finally quit). We got along fine, but I still couldn't get past the fear that she was judging me (and never could actually talk about it with her), so we never went very far--just circled around and around the issue.

Now that I am in therapy that is very different and much more helpful, I am amazed and sad that I stayed in that therapy too long.

[stopdog]

Have you tried telling him what you want? He may or may not be able to do it - but perhaps he could tell you one way or the other.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Have you tried telling him what you want? He may or may not be able to do it - but perhaps he could tell you one way or the other.

This is what I was going to suggest, too. Try telling him what you need.

What kind of therapy is this? If its just talk therapy, then that's different than if you're in something more structured like CBT.

Missed something you said--that you adore him. I think that's good. Do you think it's an idealizing transference, or just fond feelings for him?

I did not adore the therapist I mentioned before (that's how it's been with me for female therapists), so my response might not be that relatable.

[growlycat]

For all wondering, kashi's main modalities are dbt and Cbt. But he does not act very Cbt ish. Very little structure. I do like him a great deal. I usually can come right out and tell him things. I know I need to talk to him about this too. I like him in part because I have a sense that he went through a lot personally. He may have a Csa past so I feel comfortable telling him harder stuff. I don't think he is looking at me with any judgement. But the friendliness of the relationship makes me not want to rock the boat. But I probably have to

[Elio]

Originally Posted by captgut

I'm paying just for seeing him...his smile. I enjoy this.

I see nothing wrong with this. Those smiles can ease my pain and for moments in my life, I feel calm. I see that as a major quality of life improvement. So much so, I talk about those smiles and let her know how important they are to me.

I think having the conversation with Kashi is a good idea. Like others have said in past threads-your therapy with Kashi is still in the early stages. Having the conversation sooner rather than later will benefit you either way because we learn things from our therapist for good or in spite of...

[Elio]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I don't think he is looking at me with any judgement. But the friendliness of the relationship makes me not want to rock the boat. But I probably have to

Yep - I find it is in rocking the boat that I am able to grow.. because as I rock, my t stabilizes and keeps us upright and in the boat. I learn to trust her more for this and the fact that she doesn't take any of it personally - or at least has yet to reflect it back to me as if she has taken it personally. The few times I have out and out asked her, her non-verbal response is very consistent with her verbal, that she is ok that the person under the t role is ok.

Rock away. Like you said you are early in this relationship with Kashi, it would be good to see how he takes feedback and deals with your feelings in the relationship sooner rather than later. It might be great, mediocre, or poorly. At least you'll know or get a sense of it.

It sounds like you have a good thing going. He may be responsive to this issue. You could work together to come up with a solution.

I don't think of it as rocking the boat; more about working together for common goals. You have to first align the goals, which might be what you are, in effect, doing by bringing up the issues.

Originally Posted by growlycat

For all wondering, kashi's main modalities are dbt and Cbt. But he does not act very Cbt ish. Very little structure. I do like him a great deal. I usually can come right out and tell him things. I know I need to talk to him about this too. I like him in part because I have a sense that he went through a lot personally. He may have a Csa past so I feel comfortable telling him harder stuff. I don't think he is looking at me with any judgement. But the friendliness of the relationship makes me not want to rock the boat. But I probably have to

I can relate, I adored one of my ts. I especially loved her hugs at the end of sessions. She was like a surrogate mother to me but I didn't want to be a baby any more, I wanted to be more adult and to grow and develop. With her I regressed because she didn't push, she allowed me to be where I was. Sometimes I need directive counselling and at other times when I am pushed and don't need it I get furious. So it can be hard for therapists to judge if we don't tell them. I was surprised that Kashi was Cbt and dbt but then I remembered one of your first sessions where he was directive and tried to sign you into his DBT group without asking.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by Skies

Missed something you said--that you adore him. I think that's good. Do you think it's an idealizing transference, or just fond feelings for him?wing tha

I did not adore the therapist I mentioned before (that's how it's been with me for female therapists), so my response might not be that relatable.

Somewhat idealizing but I think I know better. The fond feelings are from knowing that we may have experienced similar problems growing up. I feel less like a lab rat with him than with other therapists.

[kecanoe]

Originally Posted by growlycat

Somewhat idealizing but I think I know better. The fond feelings are from knowing that we may have experienced similar problems growing up. I feel less like a lab rat with him than with other therapists.

I think it is entirely possible to really like your t and to do good work with t. That said, I have not had a t who I was just chatting with. I do spend some time each session with T1 chatting, but that is because we have agreed that is the best way forward, and the way he can be the most helpful to me.

I wonder if you are still in the getting to know him, building a therapeutic alliance with him, and if that seems too shallow because you have had a couple of good ts that you went deep with? When I read you saying that you feel comfortable talking with Kashi about stuff you never disclosed before, I think it sounds like a good match.

Do you think you might find it easier now to trust ts in general because of past experience with ts? Or is there something about Kashi's style that is exactly what you need to feel safe about opening up ugly stuff?

[growlycat]

My last two t's were fantastic which does make it easier to jump right into the work. But Kashi is really easier to talk to than my other two t's. I owe my life to t 1. But he could on occasion be judgemental. My last t sparky seems so perfect it was harder to reveal the uglier side of myself and my experience. Also, having a crush on sparky was helpful in some ways like in terms of motivation but not helpful for opening up.

[annielovesbacon]

I did, with my last T. It was my first time going to therapy, so I didn't really know what to expect or what I needed out of it. While I was in therapy, I enjoyed going because I adored my T, but it wasn't until I started seeing my current T (whom I also like just fyi) that I never made much progress with my first T.

For me, I have found much of my healing has happened within and because of the relationship with t - as convoluted and confusing as it feels sometimes - nevertheless it's true. Perhaps it's all about building that relationship right now? In any case, from what you've posted about Kashi it sounds like he'll be open to talking about it.

Growly, you are saying it's ineffective but not in what terms? What would you like to work on or change? Do you have goals and you feel the therapy with Kashi is not addressing them satisfyingly or is it more a diffuse feeling? If the latter, perhaps define specific goals and lead the sessions to focus on them. Focus on what you would like to achieve instead of the relationship with the therapist and Kashi as a person with his quirks and all, use the relationship just as a resource and tool to target specific things in your life in a more pragmatic way.

I also had an issue when I felt that the therapists interacted with me too much like friends. Like, why do I pay someone high bucks per hour when I can get the same from a nice friend for free. I was never comfortable with just diffuse and wandering discussions long-term.

[Moment]

When things get too comfortable with my therapist, I always ask myself, "What are the things we are not talking about between us?"
You can have a lot of talking going on about stuff outside of the the therapy room that goes on and on and on while big issues between the two people sitting in the room go unaddressed.
I personally expect therapy to make me a little uncomfortable. What I need is someone to challenge me and to get me out of my comfort zone.
I think we forget that therapists sometimes err on the side of wanting to be comfortable too. People talk about "resistance" on the part of the client but therapists can be 'resistant' too....

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by Moment

I think we forget that therapists sometimes err on the side of wanting to be comfortable too. People talk about "resistance" on the part of the client but therapists can be 'resistant' too....

I think this is a good (and sometimes overlooked) point. If we're having a pleasant, low-key half-hour or hour chatting with the therapist, I think it's a pretty safe bet that s/he's having a pleasant time, too.

And if that pleasant session is following a day (or a week, or a month) of what feels like constant client crises, then the reprieve might feel like a god-send that the T is loathe to break.

I can always tell when my T is too tired to dig or touch anything uncomfortable. He'll engage in chit-chat without re-directing. I can certainly go somewhere uncomfortable on my own, but he won't help me get there.