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  #51  
Old Mar 06, 2017, 08:30 PM
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ruh roh ruh roh is offline
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I don't think there's anything at all therapeutic or respectful for a therapist to show up to work moody and not acknowledge that their mood is affecting the person's therapy (and then, as in the OPs case, not acknowledge it until a spouse calls to find out what's going on).

They often tell clients not to be mind readers, so I think that needs to include not having to read the therapist's mind about why things feel so off or weird. What's wrong with them saying at the top of the hour, I'm sorry if I'm not myself today. I'm going through something that's not related to you, and it's affecting my mood.

I went through about 6 months of therapy not knowing that my therapist had been through three major losses until she said something to me when I asked for an "in the event of sudden death" letter to be given to me so that I don't show up for an appointment one day and she's not around and no one has called. I asked for the letter because of the death of another provider and two who moved prior to that, and she said she needed to catch her breath because of these losses of hers. So all that time, I had no idea, and I wish I had. I wasn't upset about not knowing because it wasn't like she was being cold or weird, but it might have explained certain days that seemed off that I couldn't find a reason for.
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  #52  
Old Mar 06, 2017, 08:31 PM
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thesnowqueen thesnowqueen is offline
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
You have to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away and know when to run.
There are many times when talking is just not the thing and leaving is the better part of valour.
I think I need to tattoo this on my arm...

For OP, if you believe you are otherwise making worthwhile progress with this T then I hope you can bring up this issue and resolve it. It sounds like you are really sensitive to where T is and then tend to personalise it when it is bad. I think I might have a similar tendency but my long term T was very professional and self aware and thus managed the signals he was giving out a lot better. If your T can't do that and it is inhibiting progress significantly then maybe it's time for new T?
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  #53  
Old Mar 06, 2017, 09:38 PM
dtrain0802 dtrain0802 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
I don't think there's anything at all therapeutic or respectful for a therapist to show up to work moody and not acknowledge that their mood is affecting the person's therapy (and then, as in the OPs case, not acknowledge it until a spouse calls to find out what's going on).

They often tell clients not to be mind readers, so I think that needs to include not having to read the therapist's mind about why things feel so off or weird. What's wrong with them saying at the top of the hour, I'm sorry if I'm not myself today. I'm going through something that's not related to you, and it's affecting my mood.

I went through about 6 months of therapy not knowing that my therapist had been through three major losses until she said something to me when I asked for an "in the event of sudden death" letter to be given to me so that I don't show up for an appointment one day and she's not around and no one has called. I asked for the letter because of the death of another provider and two who moved prior to that, and she said she needed to catch her breath because of these losses of hers. So all that time, I had no idea, and I wish I had. I wasn't upset about not knowing because it wasn't like she was being cold or weird, but it might have explained certain days that seemed off that I couldn't find a reason for.


How did things go after that?
  #54  
Old Mar 06, 2017, 09:39 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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Originally Posted by dtrain0802 View Post
Maybe that's why you're struggling or seeing two different therapists in the same week...
Nope. Not at all. Not struggling either. I use each therapist in the way that works best for me.
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Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
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  #55  
Old Mar 06, 2017, 09:43 PM
dtrain0802 dtrain0802 is offline
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
Nope. Not at all. Not struggling either. I use each therapist in the way that works best for me.


Yep, yep.
  #56  
Old Mar 06, 2017, 10:27 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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I mostly use them to sit there while I talk about supporting my person who has advanced cancer that has metastasized in some unpleasant places for one to have cancer, and all the stupidity of the medical world and dealing with it. So you can yep yep all you like. It does not make you right. You do not know me or my motivation at all. Nor do you know what sort of therapy/use of therapists is right for anyone but yourself.
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Oscar Wilde
Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

Last edited by stopdog; Mar 06, 2017 at 11:31 PM.
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  #57  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 04:18 AM
ScrewedUpMe ScrewedUpMe is offline
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
Instead of saying, "well i see you cant take care of me today so i will leave in order to unconsciously take care of you," what if the OP would have said, "i see you cant take care of me today as you usually do, AND ITS MAKING ME ANGRY."

Eta - i acknowledge its difficult to stay in the moment and putvwords to what we are feeling at the time, but that IS our only job in t, imo.
The problem is I had no idea at the time that T had stuff going on. I really thought it was me. I thought T was frustrated with me because I wasn't in a great mood and had all my barriers up that she couldn't get through. I had no idea or reason to think she had anything going on that was affecting her. If she doesn't say it, I don't know.
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ruh roh
  #58  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 04:22 AM
ScrewedUpMe ScrewedUpMe is offline
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Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
When a therapist works with people who are sensitive to other people's emotions, esp those with trauma background where it was survival, they have got to accept that they can't hide it when they've checked out or are otherwise wrapped up in their own struggles. And if they don't say anything by way of acknowledging what they are bringing or not bringing to session, then it becomes a replay of early dynamics where the person knows something is wrong, but can't pinpoint what...and it feeds all sorts of fears and anxieties that the client already know exists (reason for therapy for many) and doesn't need to have re-enacted.
That's exactly it, thank you.
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  #59  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 04:24 AM
ScrewedUpMe ScrewedUpMe is offline
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Originally Posted by dtrain0802 View Post

And no, the OP HAS NOT made an attempt to see the other; although she admittedly say she has. Because doing so requires a conversation about the issue. Again, something along the lines of "Hey, I'm concerned about our progress these last couple of sessions. My husband mentioned (insert trauma here). Are you okay?" Or "Hey, is everything okay. I feel like something has been off with you lightly."
It is not my job to take care of her needs. When I mentioned something about the death of her father this time last year and how sorry I was etc. T made it very clear that it was not my place to comment or be concerned about her. Therefore unless she mentions it to me, I am not going to bring it up to her, I don't think she will appreciate that.
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  #60  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 04:32 AM
ScrewedUpMe ScrewedUpMe is offline
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Originally Posted by jrtc3317 View Post
To OP,

While I've not exactly had your experience I can sympathize with you and understand where you are coming from completely. My T is very good at giving me warning when he will be away and we do planning for it. If something comes up urgently and he has to cancel last minute he leaves the door open for emails. He's been very good over 4 years at not showing how he's doing in life in sessions but is still able to show emotional reactions to things I feel or have dealt with. However there was a time I had a therapist that was not so good at self care and keeping her stuff out of our sessions. I tried to ask her if something was wrong things felt off and when she would say no I would blame myself. Never any nail picking or anything (which is horrible by the way) but she wouldn't pick up on things very much wouldn't ask the extra questions to get the whole story and stuff. Eventually our therapy ended due to me moving and finding another therapist but it was rocky for a bit. Looking back I feel like had I brought it up in a way to say that I feel like it's my fault when you are distant and different then usual and it's affecting me negatively that she would have probably changed that behavior or something and maybe I would've felt more inclined to keep her as my therapist when I moved but that never happened.

All I can suggest is if the behavior continues to try to voice your feelings in a nice respectful way. Sure sometimes Ts have bad days and while I don't think cancelling is necessarily a good thing unless they can rebook soon (it really depends on the client and where they're at) I do think that advising the client they are having an off day and it's not their fault is an option then it's up to the client to keep the appointment or reschedule based on their preference maybe.

Anyway sorry I don't have much advice. I just wanted you to know I understood where you're coming from and feel you have very valid points and I don't think it's your fault at all and she should have made that clear to you not just to your husband.

Good luck and I hope you can find some peace with this and make the best choice FOR YOU. Best of luck.
Thanks so much for this! Your T sounds great at keeping his personal stuff out of the relationship. My sessions with T aren't weekly because of the distance, so it's either every 2 weeks or in this case it had been 3 weeks as my kids were off school on the week I would normally go. I think because of this I would not have been too affected by T cancelling or saying can we do the opposite week as she needed to take that week off etc. I think T tries to do too much sometimes for me, which is very kind of her and I've massively appreciated her going above and beyond for me at times, I just wish she would realise sometimes her own limitations. Because I am extremely affected by this kind of scenario and would be far less affected by a cancellation. And you're right, if T had said to me that she had stuff going on, it would make a world of difference. I would be able to forgive her and understand. But if she pretends there was nothing going on for her, where does that leave me? Her telling my husband that she was unavailable and why is not an admission that it was affecting her if you see what I mean? Anyway, thanks so much for replying, I really appreciate it.
Thanks for this!
jrtc3317
  #61  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 04:37 AM
ScrewedUpMe ScrewedUpMe is offline
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Originally Posted by Elio View Post

OP - how would you have felt if she had cancelled on you for not being 100% but not cancelled on another client because of the different needs of the clients?
To be honest I would never have known. I have never in all the 10 years of seeing T seen another client. I would have been fine with a cancellation though. Equally with the nail picking session, T was clearly not up to the job, SO distracted as her daughter's wedding was coming up in 2 weeks. She should not have been working. And also announced that session that she was taking a month off which I didn't know either. I was due to have a session the following week and then a 2 week break.
  #62  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 04:43 AM
ScrewedUpMe ScrewedUpMe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
I don't think there's anything at all therapeutic or respectful for a therapist to show up to work moody and not acknowledge that their mood is affecting the person's therapy (and then, as in the OPs case, not acknowledge it until a spouse calls to find out what's going on).

They often tell clients not to be mind readers, so I think that needs to include not having to read the therapist's mind about why things feel so off or weird. What's wrong with them saying at the top of the hour, I'm sorry if I'm not myself today. I'm going through something that's not related to you, and it's affecting my mood.

I went through about 6 months of therapy not knowing that my therapist had been through three major losses until she said something to me when I asked for an "in the event of sudden death" letter to be given to me so that I don't show up for an appointment one day and she's not around and no one has called. I asked for the letter because of the death of another provider and two who moved prior to that, and she said she needed to catch her breath because of these losses of hers. So all that time, I had no idea, and I wish I had. I wasn't upset about not knowing because it wasn't like she was being cold or weird, but it might have explained certain days that seemed off that I couldn't find a reason for.
Thanks for this. Sorry to hear that happened to you. That must have been really hard to find out all those months afterwards and realise it wasn't necessarily you or the relationship with T that was off. My therapy with T has been so focused on building trust and the relationship between us that this stuff is really counterproductive. I wish T would be more honest about it. I know she suffers with anxiety and I think I see evidence of that sometimes, but this session was just so off. I really felt T was frustrated with me and am now considering it was not me, but her stuff. But again, until she says that to me, I can't assume that really.
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  #63  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 08:26 AM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe View Post
It is not my job to take care of her needs. When I mentioned something about the death of her father this time last year and how sorry I was etc. T made it very clear that it was not my place to comment or be concerned about her.....
I agree. It is absolutely not the client's job to take care of the therapist.
__________________
Please NO @

Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
Oscar Wilde
Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

Last edited by stopdog; Mar 07, 2017 at 08:56 AM.
Thanks for this!
ScrewedUpMe, UnderRugSwept
  #64  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 08:54 AM
Elio Elio is offline
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Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe View Post
To be honest I would never have known. I have never in all the 10 years of seeing T seen another client. I would have been fine with a cancellation though. Equally with the nail picking session, T was clearly not up to the job, SO distracted as her daughter's wedding was coming up in 2 weeks. She should not have been working. And also announced that session that she was taking a month off which I didn't know either. I was due to have a session the following week and then a 2 week break.
I am sorry this happened, and I agree that it is in the t's job description to be present for the client. I think, if everything else is good with this t, talking to her to let her know your preference would be good. I did tell mine that cancelling is really hard on me and that disruptions to schedule in general causes me distress. So for the last one, she let me know when she was starting to get sick that she wasn't feeling well and she contacted me when she needed to be out because she got sick rather than leaving it for the office staff to deal with. This worked better for me than just getting a call from the office staff. My point is that we each come in with different needs and sometimes it might be hard for a t to know which action is needed by the different clients. That said, I think picking or filing nails is never appropriate and holding sessions just for a paycheck is also just as wrong in my book.
Thanks for this!
ScrewedUpMe
  #65  
Old Mar 07, 2017, 09:04 AM
Anonymous37925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
This is not the therapist just not being at their best one day - the OPs example was a therapist who was not even just doing reasonably okay. OP did not say she expected perfection - but the therapist is being paid to do a job. You wouldn't excuse a house painter who left off a wall or tracked paint on the rug by saying they aren't perfect or had an off day. You wouldn't excuse a surgeon who cut out the wrong organ because they are not perfect. You wouldn't eat raw chicken because the chef is human. In my opinion, that line of thinking is just ********.
Just read through this entire thread and this is exactly right. Therapists are there to provide a service which we pay for and if they can't provide the service they have an obligation not to take our money.
My T emails me even if he has a cold to tell me he might not be 100% up to standard and gives me the opportunity to cancel. That is informed consent so I have the opportunity to not spend my money on a lesser service. It's ethical.

The BACP ethical framework says
"We will take responsibility for how we offer our clients opportunities to work towards their desired outcomes and the safety of the services we provide orhave responsibility for overseeing.
46. We will discuss with clients how best to work towards their desired
outcomes and any known risks involved in the work.
47. We will ensure candour by promptly informing our clients of anything
important that has gone wrong in our work together, and:
a. take immediate action to prevent or limit any harm
b. repair any harm caused, so far as possible
c. offer an apology when this is appropriate
d. notify and discuss with our supervisor and/or manager what
has occurred
e. investigate and take action to avoid whatever has gone wrong
being repeated"

It's not about being human, it's about being professional and ethical.
Thanks for this!
atisketatasket, Elio, kecanoe, ruh roh, ScrewedUpMe, stopdog
  #66  
Old Mar 08, 2017, 02:55 PM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe View Post
The problem is I had no idea at the time that T had stuff going on. I really thought it was me. I thought T was frustrated with me because I wasn't in a great mood and had all my barriers up that she couldn't get through. I had no idea or reason to think she had anything going on that was affecting her. If she doesn't say it, I don't know.
Its not about what you knew about t or how she was feeling. Its about you taking the chance and saying, something feels off. Instead of "putting your barriers up". I still cant figure out how it came to pass that your h called your t. Did you ask him to? Why would she even talk to him? Were you acting scary?

It doesnt sound like your t is strong enough to contain your feelings. Maybe your h needs help with that too?
  #67  
Old Mar 08, 2017, 05:43 PM
ScrewedUpMe ScrewedUpMe is offline
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
Its not about what you knew about t or how she was feeling. Its about you taking the chance and saying, something feels off. Instead of "putting your barriers up". I still cant figure out how it came to pass that your h called your t. Did you ask him to? Why would she even talk to him? Were you acting scary?

It doesnt sound like your t is strong enough to contain your feelings. Maybe your h needs help with that too?
I didn't ask my husband to call T. Infact I was really angry that he did. He has called her before when I have been really affected by a session and unable to talk to her and acting out, self harm etc. But normally he has my permission to do so. He just wanted to help and sort it out. He wanted to tell T that I thought she was angry with me, to clarify the situation. And yeah, you're probably going to say I should be doing that myself. I know that but am still not able to.

And yes, I sometimes think T is not strong enough to contain my emotions.
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