Home Menu

Menu


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #426  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 07:34 AM
SalingerEsme's Avatar
SalingerEsme SalingerEsme is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Jul 2017
Location: Neverland
Posts: 1,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica Hazlitt View Post
Yes, not for the first time. Often it's while sat side by side and I have my nose on his cheek kinda nuzzling. I think it's probably one of the reasons I had to be clear about love Vs in love.
I can't imagine my T ever touching a client in any way. He doesn't even shake hands. He radiates warmth and friendliness as a person, but in no circumstances would he allow this. It is amazing how there is no real T PlayBook or T Book Of RULES.. Each one seems to make reality in his or her own image .
__________________
Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck

advertisement
  #427  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 07:54 AM
lucozader's Avatar
lucozader lucozader is offline
Most Dangerous
 
Member Since: Feb 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
I can't imagine my T ever touching a client in any way. He doesn't even shake hands. He radiates warmth and friendliness as a person, but in no circumstances would he allow this. It is amazing how there is no real T PlayBook or T Book Of RULES.. Each one seems to make reality in his or her own image .
There are ethical frameworks that Ts abide by, and the way JH's T interacts with her would be pretty much universally considered inappropriate and unethical.
Thanks for this!
ElectricManatee, LonesomeTonight, SalingerEsme, Spangle
  #428  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 08:48 AM
SalingerEsme's Avatar
SalingerEsme SalingerEsme is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Jul 2017
Location: Neverland
Posts: 1,806
Agree with you.
__________________
Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck
  #429  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 09:35 AM
Anonymous52723
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I remember the first time reading on PC when a therapist kissed her client on the forehead. It was so shocking for many. But for me, I wanted the same from my therapist; to kiss my forehead. I braved the rejection and asked, she acquiesced. We already had touch in my therapy, more than just a handshake or a hug, and after the kiss the psychotherapy frame did not shatter. We survived and therapy had a few less bumps. I believe that kiss on my forehead helped smooth the road to do better therapy. I also think the unconscious day to day memory helps me live my life now with a sense of safety and security. This is my experience only.

There is nothing in the ethics that speaks about this specifically; this childlike touch.

New Ethical Framework for the Counselling Professions

It does speak about sexual relations. I am not of the mind to buy the slippery slope argument. I can understand many therapists are uncomfortable with this. Not all clients need it or want it or are most therapist willing to do this kind of touch. This certainly DOES NOT make the therapist unethical or boundary-less if they are acting AT ALL TIMES in the clients best interest. If they can justify therapeutically and the client benefits, so be it.

Six – eight years ago, the mention of touch on this forum was so taboo, and the words, "I love you," were the words of Satin that doomed clients to hell if their therapist said them. Members were told to pick up their petticoats and run as fast and far as they could. Not so much anymore.

I was trained to look at patterns. A common pattern I see in forums like this, are many clients (not all) that get these kind of needs met with in an "ethical frame" do not struggle within the therapeutic relationship as much and have a bit more reserve to get through the journey. Other clients spend a lot more time struggling with, "Do I matter to you, to someone."

Just my two-cents

Last edited by Anonymous52723; Oct 14, 2017 at 09:59 AM.
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127, captgut, Daisy Dead Petals, growlycat, LonesomeTonight, Spangle
  #430  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 10:26 AM
lucozader's Avatar
lucozader lucozader is offline
Most Dangerous
 
Member Since: Feb 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,920
I am not interested in debating whether the way JH's therapist behaves is appropriate or not.

It is not. And honestly I think it's dangerous to attempt to normalise it in any way.
Thanks for this!
ElectricManatee, Spangle
  #431  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 10:59 AM
atisketatasket's Avatar
atisketatasket atisketatasket is offline
Child of a lesser god
 
Member Since: Jun 2015
Location: Tartarus
Posts: 19,394
JH hasn't been on the site for two weeks and I don't see a post from her asking for any opinion, negative or positive, about her relationship with her therapist.

Given that, I don't think it should be a topic of discussion at all.
Thanks for this!
awkwardlyyours, captgut, stopdog
  #432  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 11:38 AM
Anonymous52723
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Two weeks ago, I returned to my ex therapist office. She agreed to be interviewed at the last minute because of a state official backing out. I had not been in her office for over four years, a place where I spent over 400 hours in 18 months.

As I reflect back, I thought I should've had many feelings about being back in her office where my emotions spilled so profusely leaving me vulnerable time and again. I had none. All the hours I used to spend looking at every nook and cranny, every book tittle, or object placed about, did not come back. The only thing I noticed was the color of the wall (it looks darker than before, but I can't be sure), and my therapist.

I had no overwhelming or noticeable emotional feelings at seeing her at the scene of the crime. I was happy to see her and grateful she agreed to the interview at the last moment. I wanted to get started because my schedule was tight, and do a good job. I was not nervous at all. I had asked two days before if she wanted to see the questions in advance, she said it was up to me if I wanted to send them, and I did.

The interview went well. At the end, I showed her another project I was working on. It was on my phone so she got up and sat next to me on the sofa.

The sofa was where we had spent many intimate hours slugging through attachment therapy: me crying, pushing and pulling her away, me screaming, telling her how mean and uncaring she was, etc. But, more importantly it was a spot on the couch that I always knew I was welcomed, no matter how much money I had or didn't have, how childish I was behaving or adulting. All of me was welcomed, nothing rejected, even when I experienced ET.

As I shared with her the almost finished project, nothing embarrassed me, nothing shamed me, and nothing overwhelmed me. She had very positive expressions throughout the viewing, but when she saw the dedication page, and it was to her, she smiled widely and turned to me and gave me a big hug.

Still nothing from our past relationship on that couch was activated. Just feelings of two friends that appreciate each other.

I think the safety and security that I got from therapy has been absorbed into my body just like the traumas my body remembered from my early years that left me wondering aimlessly in deep pain through most of my adulthood. Only now, the pain is gone and my body remembers the good stuff.

I also remember clearly years ago when I told her with a feeling of terror, that one day she would throw me off the couch. I'm glad she was willing to go the distance with me.
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127, Elio, LonesomeTonight, satsuma, Spangle, unaluna
  #433  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 02:12 PM
growlycat's Avatar
growlycat growlycat is offline
Therapy Ninja
 
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: How did I get here?
Posts: 10,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by AttachmentesBueno View Post

I was trained to look at patterns. A common pattern I see in forums like this, are many clients (not all) that get these kind of needs met with in an "ethical frame" do not struggle within the therapeutic relationship as much and have a bit more reserve to get through the journey. Other clients spend a lot more time struggling with, "Do I matter to you, to someone."

Just my two-cents
Boundary crossings not violations saved my life. I'd be dead right if therapists were unable or unwilling to really care about me
Hugs from:
Spangle, WarmFuzzySocks
Thanks for this!
anais_anais, Anonymous45127, atisketatasket, awkwardlyyours, captgut, Elio, LonesomeTonight, mostlylurking, Spangle
  #434  
Old Oct 14, 2017, 02:30 PM
LonesomeTonight's Avatar
LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
Always in This Twilight
 
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 22,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by growlycat View Post
Boundary crossings not violations saved my life. I'd be dead right if therapists were unable or unwilling to really care about me
I get that. I'm pretty sure MC's marriage-counseling boundary crossings helped save my life when I went through a crisis two Januaries ago...T1 helped a bit, but it was mostly MC and his obvious caring and commitment to me that ultimately kept me safe during that time.
Hugs from:
growlycat, Spangle, WarmFuzzySocks
Thanks for this!
Elio, growlycat
  #435  
Old Oct 15, 2017, 07:27 AM
Elio Elio is offline
...............
 
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: in my head
Posts: 2,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by AttachmentesBueno View Post
Two weeks ago, I returned to my ex therapist office. She agreed to be interviewed at the last minute because of a state official backing out. I had not been in her office for over four years, a place where I spent over 400 hours in 18 months.

As I reflect back, I thought I should've had many feelings about being back in her office where my emotions spilled so profusely leaving me vulnerable time and again. I had none. All the hours I used to spend looking at every nook and cranny, every book tittle, or object placed about, did not come back. The only thing I noticed was the color of the wall (it looks darker than before, but I can't be sure), and my therapist.

I had no overwhelming or noticeable emotional feelings at seeing her at the scene of the crime. I was happy to see her and grateful she agreed to the interview at the last moment. I wanted to get started because my schedule was tight, and do a good job. I was not nervous at all. I had asked two days before if she wanted to see the questions in advance, she said it was up to me if I wanted to send them, and I did.

The interview went well. At the end, I showed her another project I was working on. It was on my phone so she got up and sat next to me on the sofa.

The sofa was where we had spent many intimate hours slugging through attachment therapy: me crying, pushing and pulling her away, me screaming, telling her how mean and uncaring she was, etc. But, more importantly it was a spot on the couch that I always knew I was welcomed, no matter how much money I had or didn't have, how childish I was behaving or adulting. All of me was welcomed, nothing rejected, even when I experienced ET.

As I shared with her the almost finished project, nothing embarrassed me, nothing shamed me, and nothing overwhelmed me. She had very positive expressions throughout the viewing, but when she saw the dedication page, and it was to her, she smiled widely and turned to me and gave me a big hug.

Still nothing from our past relationship on that couch was activated. Just feelings of two friends that appreciate each other.

I think the safety and security that I got from therapy has been absorbed into my body just like the traumas my body remembered from my early years that left me wondering aimlessly in deep pain through most of my adulthood. Only now, the pain is gone and my body remembers the good stuff.

I also remember clearly years ago when I told her with a feeling of terror, that one day she would throw me off the couch. I'm glad she was willing to go the distance with me.
Hello,
I would like to talk to you about this more privately. I see you have turned off PM. Are you open to a more private conversation about this?
Thank you,
Elio
  #436  
Old Oct 15, 2017, 10:04 PM
awkwardlyyours awkwardlyyours is offline
Is Untitled
 
Member Since: Feb 2016
Location: here and there
Posts: 2,617
I spent today's (and my previous) session cribbing about my work situation or specifically, a douchebag colleague's behavior.

Current T pointed out -- repeatedly, I'm embarrassed to say -- that my habit of letting loose my sarcasm in ways that are specifically meant to humiliate and demean said colleague is not going to go down well.

And, worse still, that if I were to put it in an email (as I'd intended), it would come across as aggressive and unprofessional.

She also asked me as to what I think the repercussions on my career would be if I kept giving in to my rather burning desire to rip apart people-who-irritate-me with my sarcasm.

I didn't have an answer really -- told her that I'd more or less done stuff like that throughout my life (grad school included) and I see I paid the price.

And, it's only recently I realized that it reminds me a crap ton of my super painful dynamic with my brother.

Talked (very) briefly about my father and how I've taken after him -- he was entirely unfiltered and lost his temper often at work (and home, but that's a different matter) and so, paid the price by having his career progression set back by the better part of two decades.

I then told current T that despite all my issues with my father, I feel (and have always felt) really sorry for him about this stuff -- he is one of the smartest (in a bookish way, yes) people I've known and the folks who got ahead of him weren't anywhere nearly as intelligent.

Current T then said that he made his choices and didn't figure out how to change his behavior and so, there's only so far that one can feel sorry for him.

We talked a bit then about my tendency to dismiss people as incompetent morons and how I find that people who think and process differently from me (E.g. my former therapist!) are incredibly infuriating i.e., I tend to go big-picture, need a few broad strokes and then mostly figure it out and move on; whereas, I often clash with people who think in what seems like a terribly linear (and in my not-so-humble opinion, plodding) fashion. They usually think I'm all smoke-and-mirrors and I usually think they're absolute dullards.

Current T tried to get me to see that I can stop thinking of such folks (problem colleague is one of them) as morons and instead just see that they process it differently.

But, at some point, I realized that I have way too much crap invested in maintaining that defense -- the memories and wounds go far back -- and I can't just switch out my thinking about it.

Time was up and so, didn't get into that.

She did though -- very helpfully -- give me very specific pointers / suggestions on how to deal with douchebag colleague (what to say under what circumstances and to whom). I'm not ashamed to say that I'm rather grateful for it -- I haven't ever discussed my tendency towards sarcasm / anger in professional situations with anyone else because the underlying issues always felt too painful and I didn't think anyone would "get it". Combine that with my being absolutely clueless about how I come across to people in these situations and well, let's just say, it's not been pretty.
Hugs from:
atisketatasket, Elio, growlycat, LonesomeTonight, ruh roh, Spangle, unaluna
Thanks for this!
ruh roh, unaluna
  #437  
Old Oct 16, 2017, 04:55 PM
ruh roh's Avatar
ruh roh ruh roh is offline
Run of the Mill Snowflake
 
Member Since: May 2015
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours View Post
I tend to go big-picture, need a few broad strokes and then mostly figure it out and move on; whereas, I often clash with people who think in what seems like a terribly linear (and in my not-so-humble opinion, plodding) fashion. They usually think I'm all smoke-and-mirrors and I usually think they're absolute dullards.
Boy, can I relate. I am maybe only slightly less insufferable than I used to be about this, but I process things so quickly that I feel I've aged years by the time it's caught on by more ponderous colleagues. But...I have been mellowed and laid low by my own stupidity enough times that now I can usually stop myself and remember that my efficient s**t still stinks like everyone else's.
Hugs from:
awkwardlyyours
Thanks for this!
awkwardlyyours
  #438  
Old Oct 16, 2017, 06:51 PM
toomanycats toomanycats is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: May 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 1,734
TW for surface-level discussion of assault.

Today's was the toughest session (topic-wise) C and I have had. I'm still not quite present/grounded right now. My mind is spinning, I feel quite young, and I really want to (and probably will) email him just to ask, like a small child with tears in my eyes, if he's still there. My chest is tight, and I'm re-experiencing the feelings of that day and, most especially, that evening - when I had to go home and pretend nothing had happened. I'm realizing right now as I type that coming home and having to jump back into mom mode and "pretend nothing happened" is greatly triggering those feelings.

The before-mentioned topic of "the signals I give off"/"how I relate to men" inevitably led to our first toe-dip into my first and most traumatic sexual assault. The exact play by play of today's session is long gone from my brain. But, there were some things that I made a point to hold on to.

First, that he said "this is where my protective feelings really kick in" when we were talking about the assault (I did not go into any detail about what happened - we just talked around it, kind of? Like about the person, about the relationship I had with the person, about the nagging voices of self blame in the back of my head who are disconnected from my "rational/front of brain" mind (C is the first therapist to really insist I let that bit talk - he literally said "I'm talking to that part right now"). I am fighting with anxiety over worrying I somehow made it sound worse than it really was. Like, I realize now that what he was saying - maybe he thinks certain types of things happened that didn't... what if, when he finds out, he thinks "that's it?! that's what you're so upset about?!" (Rational front brain says "TMC, you know that what happened was bad enough to warrant your reaction; every victim always thinks that what happened wasn't 'bad enough' for it to matter.")

Right. More things that stuck out, though, that I'm holding on to. He reacted with utter shock -- seriously with so much more real feeling than anyone I've ever spoken with about this event -- at the fact that, after it happened, I went back home, back to a family party, and pretended nothing had ever happened. Let me back track here and recount the conversation (I don't want to forget it):

He said "I wish I had been there to stop it from happening."

I told him that I'd said to S before that I wished he'd been there, but that, even if he ...or if he (C)... couldn't have stopped it happening, I just wish someone had been there to help me with the aftermath. Because there was nobody, I just had to go home and pretend nothing had happened

He made an upset sound at that and said "but you didn't have to go back to the party, right? It was after?"

I said "no, I went back to the party. It was still going on. I'd snuck away during it so nobody would notice, and I went back and pretended nothing had happened."

He was literally shocked (which really surprised me)... he said "How on earth did you do that?" He was quite worked up at this.

"I'm very good at compartmentalizing," I said. And he said something like "you must be."

It segwayed in to the topic of compartmentalizing and how it was a literal survival technique for me. He said that people who have had to survive do typically get quite good at compartmentalizing. We briefly brushed on an incident from my childhood that I mark as a point when I absolutely had to compartmentalize and change my emotions/pretend in order to survive.

We talked about how these memories are not just memories - that, when I think of them, I don't think of them - they come back up, and I reexperience all of the feelings and sensations of that day. (It was happening there in his office, and I know he saw a bit of it - I was fighting so hard to keep it under wraps - again, survival instinct...)

C said that he wanted to go as deeply into my trauma as I wanted to go. He told me about a method he thinks would work well for me and, guys, it's so freaking awful (and he said so as well). The method requires my writing out what happened with certain structure (dictated by the method I suppose - he didn't say much), then, I would bring it in to session and read it aloud to him. I physically reacted and had to hide my face and curl up a bit into a self-protection position. I would then shred the document......and write it again. (No word on if I'd have to say it aloud again too....)

My stomach twists at the thought of doing this. I can't even think of it really right now. C said it was a long ways off IF I chose to do it - that we had a lot of talking about it all to do first. And, he was quite good at pausing me and asking probing questions as we talked about just the relationship and leading up to that day.

I told him I was scared to leave, because I was afraid of what I'd feel when I left and was home alone. And...here I am... and I'm definitely reexperiencing that evening right now. And I've no idea how to stop it. All my grounding techniques aren't working.

I should probably email him. I really don't want to be alone. I want to know he's there so badly right now.
Hugs from:
Elio, LonesomeTonight, mostlylurking, NP_Complete, SalingerEsme, SummerTime12, WarmFuzzySocks
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127, SalingerEsme
  #439  
Old Oct 16, 2017, 06:58 PM
awkwardlyyours awkwardlyyours is offline
Is Untitled
 
Member Since: Feb 2016
Location: here and there
Posts: 2,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post

my efficient s**t still stinks like everyone else's.
I think mine smells like magnolias (I have no idea how they smell but I assume, it's pretty awesome).

So, I dunno unless magnolias stink, I'm pretty awesome?

Just kidding -- I know exactly what you mean by having been laid low by my own stupidity.
Hugs from:
ruh roh
Thanks for this!
ruh roh
  #440  
Old Oct 16, 2017, 09:45 PM
LonesomeTonight's Avatar
LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
Always in This Twilight
 
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 22,026
MC today. Shared some updates from week and what's coming up this week. I gave brief recap of conflict that occurred with T2 (over charging me for e-mail) and how I handled it. MC seemed impressed by how I dealt with it.

MC asked what we wanted to talk about. I asked if he had any thoughts, and he said, "Well, I do have one thing. I know this will be frustrating though." I suspected it was one of two things. And I was right--he wanted to mention again about how H and I seem to do many things that revolve around alcohol. Like when we're describing our weeks/weekends, we mention going to x pub or y taproom.

MC asked if either of us were concerned about our alcohol use. Similarly to how it's gone the other times this has come up, I said I was concerned about myself, H said he wasn't concerned about himself. MC asked why I was concerned. I said how I partly use it for anxiety, which he said was red flag. And how if we're out of beer, I feel need to get more. And that I sometimes drink during the day.

I said, "I may have even had a beer before coming here." (appointment was at 2 pm). MC asked, "So, did you have a beer before coming here?" I said, "Yes, I did." MC said, "May I ask why?" I said because of anxiety. He seemed a bit bothered by that. I said, "It was one beer, I'm not drunk." And said I suspected since he saw teens that some came in impaired by alcohol or drugs. He said yes, that sometimes he'll say, "I'm not terminating you, but we can't conduct a session with you in this state." I asked if he was going to give me a breathalyzer or something, reiterating that I wasn't drunk. How in the past, sometimes I took a Benadryl before session to calm me down (not with beer!), but that made me sleepy, so I didn't.

He said if it was about anxiety, then he wanted me to be able to deal with anxiety in session, to have those emotions come up. Then made reference to the "wise person" who had talked earlier about how she'd had a conflict with T2 and worked through it. I was like, "Well, I had a beer before each of those sessions, too..." (original session and half-session to resolve issue).

At some point in there, MC mentioned how we said we'd taken D with us to some of the places. He asked if there were other parents there with their kids, which felt rather judgmental of him (especially because most are restaurants). H said yes, that there usually are, plus we go at like 4 or 5, not later when it's busy. MC seemed a little surprised by that.

He asked more about the drinking affecting our marriage, and I said how it feels sometimes like we enable each other. Like, "Want another beer?" "Well, if you're getting one..." I said how it feels like I need to cut back, but I was finding it hard to do that consistently. How in the past, I'd managed to stop smoking (years ago) and drinking soda (a couple years ago) on my own, but was really struggling with this. MC said maybe because it's a different thing, if I'm using it to cope with anxiety. Which is a red flag. He called out one or two other things as red flags for me, too.

I said I knew I had to talk about it to T2 (we haven't really addressed it yet--it's only been 5 weeks). How T1 tended to kinda hand-wave it. That I definitely needed help with it. Think there was some other stuff in there too.

Was time to go. I'd initially thought about trying to space out sessions a bit--like instead of next Monday, doing next Thursday, then skipping a week, then going to every 2 weeks. But as soon as we started talking about scheduling, I got teary. So I asked H if it was OK if we just stuck with next Monday, then discussed it after that. He said was fine. I think I'd expected today to be more of a light session, so this felt like a weird one to start spacing sessions after (want to do that because things seem better with me and H, so I feel like much of why we're still going is for my attachment to/transference for MC).

Usual handshake/"Good to see you." Then headed out.
Hugs from:
ElectricManatee, Elio, lucozader, Spangle, SummerTime12
Thanks for this!
captgut, lucozader
  #441  
Old Oct 16, 2017, 11:49 PM
Demunie's Avatar
Demunie Demunie is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,706
Wrong thread sorry
__________________
I do not wanna be afraid
I do not wanna die inside just to breathe in
I'm tired of feeling so numb
  #442  
Old Oct 18, 2017, 06:32 AM
Anonymous57382
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Not a good session. He still doesn't really understand the gravity of what happened with my former therapist.
Hugs from:
Lemoncake, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, ruh roh, WarmFuzzySocks
  #443  
Old Oct 18, 2017, 08:53 AM
anais_anais's Avatar
anais_anais anais_anais is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Mar 2017
Location: up
Posts: 1,967
Yesterday's session with M is just starting to come back to me.

Mostly I complained about how terrifyingly, profoundly broke I am, how tired I am from worrying about it from the moment I wake up until when I fall asleep, how I am reaching out to everyone I can think of who might have work for me and how hard it is for me to do that given my current depression and feelings of inadequacy.

This is what I've been saying for the past 2-3 weeks. But yesterday was different-- I watched M become furious on my behalf when I told him the story about the conductor who said I was unengaged, and the way he teared up and made some excuse to check the thermostat (rubbing his eyes) when I described to him my near-nonexistant network of friends. He also brought up how I must, on some level, be enraged with my family for failing me so completely in terms of love and support. And he was right, I am pissed as ****, but didn't realize it til he said it. They got lucky recently and now have more money than they know what to do with, but I am the bad daughter who didn't even deserve to eat growing up and they definitely won't help me now.

So there were some strong feelings on both sides. It wasn't destabilizing-- on the contrary I felt validated by seeing, reflected in him, how hard things really are right now, and that my organized approach despite all this is really quite an accomplishment. I must stay afloat until the networking for new work pays off. I have been afraid of losing M in the process but he said he will be there no matter what. He cut the fee again last week effective for the months of October and November, and said I also don't owe the amount immediately, he would hold my checks for several months if needed.

At the end M asked me if there was anything we could do together in session that would help me feel recharged and grounded. I didn't know how to answer this-- I sort of felt like he should be the one giving ideas to me. In the end he suggested sitting back to back on the floor to give a physical analogy to this abstract concept of being supported, which is something he knows I've never really understood. So we spent the last five or so minutes this way, me leaning against his back. I liked this exercise quite a lot. We've used it previously to explore boundaries, too.

But this has come up before-- me being confused and numbed out by the pain of my situation until I see someone else enraged or saddened by it-- only then do I understand what emotions are appropriate. They are in there somewhere, but I have so much trouble finding them.
__________________
*・゜゚・*:.。。.:*・'((something in English))'・*:..。.:*・゜゚・*
Hugs from:
ElectricManatee, LonesomeTonight, ruh roh, Spangle, unaluna, WarmFuzzySocks
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127, naenin
  #444  
Old Oct 18, 2017, 11:51 AM
DP_2017's Avatar
DP_2017 DP_2017 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,414
We went on a walk, which was nice. However, I had a big loss in my life and have been closed down about it, I wont talk to anyone, so I had high hopes and again, no tears. He had no words or reaction so I shut down. I left feeling frustrated and like a robot. I'm angry that I can't allow myself to feel.
Hugs from:
growlycat, LonesomeTonight, NP_Complete
  #445  
Old Oct 18, 2017, 05:35 PM
LonesomeTonight's Avatar
LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
Always in This Twilight
 
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 22,026
T2 today.
Sat down, he asked what I wanted to talk about today. I said alcohol use and mentioned how it had come up with MC Monday and recapped that briefly. He asked what I thought about my drinking. I said I thought I needed to cut back that it was a problem. So he asked about my relationship with alcohol. I asked if he wanted the whole history, and he said if I wanted to share, then asked if it was OK if he took notes (he only had the first session). He ended up filling both sides of a legal pad!

Talked about going out drinking frequently in my mid-20s then eventually getting DWI (and the circumstances surrounding that, which were hard to talk about). I said what my BAC was (0.18), expecting him to be horrified, but he wasn't. If he was judging me for anything I said all session, he did a great job of concealing it. (Unlike MC on Monday...)

Talked about concerns about my drinking over the past few years and how much I was generally drinking now. At one point he clarified that it was mostly beer that I drank, and I said yes. He said, "How do you stay so skinny then?" I laughed for about a minute and was like "Yeah, I'm not really *that* skinny. But thanks. And I've always had a pretty fast metabolism. I could definitely stand to lose 10 lbs. though."

I had been playing with my rings and bracelet all session, and he asked, "Are you feeling very anxious right now?" I said, "Yeah, pretty anxious. What gave it away, the fidgeting?" He said that, the way I was talking, the fact that I seemed to be jumping from thing to thing. He asked if that was how I generally felt. I said, "Well, right now I'm particularly anxious because I'm talking about this stuff with someone I haven't known that long really. So I don't know how you'll react. It's not generally this bad except for something like this or in a social setting." Said how I'd had full-on panic attacks with T1 or a couple times with MC, where I felt I needed to get out of the room, but this wasn't nearly that bad.

I said, "In general, though, I do tend to have lots of thoughts running around in my head at any one time." He said, "If you feel like that, I can see why you'd want to use something like alcohol to deal with it." Which made me feel like he understood and wasn't judging.

I asked about strategies to cut back on drinking. He said to just stop, without having some way to deal with the anxiety, probably wouldn't be that successful. Because then I'm dealing both with not having the alcohol plus the stronger anxiety feelings that would arise. He asked what other things I found to be calming. I mentioned yoga, going for a walk, listening to music.

He said that if, say, I normally would have a beer at 3 (for example), first, do one of those things instead, ideally something somewhat active. Then, when I'm done, if I still want the beer, OK to have it. But ideally I wouldn't. So doing that once a day would cut drinking by 20-25% (considering 4-5 beers/day). Then after a bit, try to add in an activity (could also be something like playing instrument, doing craft) for another time slot when I'd usually want a beer. Which sounds like something I could actually do.

Talked about a few related things--like how my H continuing to drink at his regular level could be an obstacle. How that's often an issue, if one partner wants to make changes (whether eating healthier, drinking less, etc.), but the other one doesn't. And also sobriety vs. moderation (which he said is harder because you have to keep monitoring all the time). I actually wonder if he's had some specific training in addiction, because he seemed to know what he was talking about.

At the end of the session, he said, "I want to say again, like last time, there was nothing you said this session that would make me not want to see you next week." I said, "Even if I told you I'd had a beer before session today?" He replied, "I just assumed that you had, based on what you'd said. It's OK, just don't show up drunk." I said, "I wouldn't do that," and he replied, "I didn't get the sense that you would."

I paid, and it seemed like he wasn't going to hold out his hand for me to shake. Maybe he forgot I'm a hand-shaker? Then he did, we shook hands, and he said "Take care." (other times he'd just said "have a good week.") I said "You too," and headed out.
Hugs from:
Anonymous57382, growlycat, Spangle
  #446  
Old Oct 19, 2017, 06:05 AM
Anonymous45127
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanycats View Post
TW for surface-level discussion of assault.

Today's was the toughest session (topic-wise) C and I have had. I'm still not quite present/grounded right now. My mind is spinning, I feel quite young, and I really want to (and probably will) email him just to ask, like a small child with tears in my eyes, if he's still there. My chest is tight, and I'm re-experiencing the feelings of that day and, most especially, that evening - when I had to go home and pretend nothing had happened. I'm realizing right now as I type that coming home and having to jump back into mom mode and "pretend nothing happened" is greatly triggering those feelings.

The before-mentioned topic of "the signals I give off"/"how I relate to men" inevitably led to our first toe-dip into my first and most traumatic sexual assault. The exact play by play of today's session is long gone from my brain. But, there were some things that I made a point to hold on to.

First, that he said "this is where my protective feelings really kick in" when we were talking about the assault (I did not go into any detail about what happened - we just talked around it, kind of? Like about the person, about the relationship I had with the person, about the nagging voices of self blame in the back of my head who are disconnected from my "rational/front of brain" mind (C is the first therapist to really insist I let that bit talk - he literally said "I'm talking to that part right now"). I am fighting with anxiety over worrying I somehow made it sound worse than it really was. Like, I realize now that what he was saying - maybe he thinks certain types of things happened that didn't... what if, when he finds out, he thinks "that's it?! that's what you're so upset about?!" (Rational front brain says "TMC, you know that what happened was bad enough to warrant your reaction; every victim always thinks that what happened wasn't 'bad enough' for it to matter.")

Right. More things that stuck out, though, that I'm holding on to. He reacted with utter shock -- seriously with so much more real feeling than anyone I've ever spoken with about this event -- at the fact that, after it happened, I went back home, back to a family party, and pretended nothing had ever happened. Let me back track here and recount the conversation (I don't want to forget it):

He said "I wish I had been there to stop it from happening."

I told him that I'd said to S before that I wished he'd been there, but that, even if he ...or if he (C)... couldn't have stopped it happening, I just wish someone had been there to help me with the aftermath. Because there was nobody, I just had to go home and pretend nothing had happened

He made an upset sound at that and said "but you didn't have to go back to the party, right? It was after?"

I said "no, I went back to the party. It was still going on. I'd snuck away during it so nobody would notice, and I went back and pretended nothing had happened."

He was literally shocked (which really surprised me)... he said "How on earth did you do that?" He was quite worked up at this.

"I'm very good at compartmentalizing," I said. And he said something like "you must be."

It segwayed in to the topic of compartmentalizing and how it was a literal survival technique for me. He said that people who have had to survive do typically get quite good at compartmentalizing. We briefly brushed on an incident from my childhood that I mark as a point when I absolutely had to compartmentalize and change my emotions/pretend in order to survive.

We talked about how these memories are not just memories - that, when I think of them, I don't think of them - they come back up, and I reexperience all of the feelings and sensations of that day. (It was happening there in his office, and I know he saw a bit of it - I was fighting so hard to keep it under wraps - again, survival instinct...)

C said that he wanted to go as deeply into my trauma as I wanted to go. He told me about a method he thinks would work well for me and, guys, it's so freaking awful (and he said so as well). The method requires my writing out what happened with certain structure (dictated by the method I suppose - he didn't say much), then, I would bring it in to session and read it aloud to him. I physically reacted and had to hide my face and curl up a bit into a self-protection position. I would then shred the document......and write it again. (No word on if I'd have to say it aloud again too....)

My stomach twists at the thought of doing this. I can't even think of it really right now. C said it was a long ways off IF I chose to do it - that we had a lot of talking about it all to do first. And, he was quite good at pausing me and asking probing questions as we talked about just the relationship and leading up to that day.

I told him I was scared to leave, because I was afraid of what I'd feel when I left and was home alone. And...here I am... and I'm definitely reexperiencing that evening right now. And I've no idea how to stop it. All my grounding techniques aren't working.

I should probably email him. I really don't want to be alone. I want to know he's there so badly right now.
Sounds like Prolonged Exposure Therapy.

There's also Imagery Rescripting where you change how the traumatic memory ends and rehearse that.

// For childhood traumatic events but also works for adult traumatic events:

http://www.rediviva.sav.sk/54i3/113.pdf

(1) Creating a therapeutic atmosphere (security and
control, acceptance, appreciation)

(2) Imaginal exposure to painful experiences

(3) Expressing negative emotions towards aggressors or persons who could not protect

(4) Expressing the child’s needs towards the person who should have protected him or her

(5) Experiencing a better end – imagery rescriptingof the story

(6) General calming //

And... you're very, very, very brave.
Hugs from:
Spangle
Thanks for this!
skeksi, Spangle, toomanycats
  #447  
Old Oct 19, 2017, 07:36 AM
LostOnTheTrail's Avatar
LostOnTheTrail LostOnTheTrail is offline
Human Feeling
 
Member Since: Aug 2011
Location: England
Posts: 5,793
That was an intense session – not the one I wanted, but perhaps the one I needed. R arrived, and brightly asked how I was doing. ‘Sorry, let’s try that again…bad question to come in with. Let me sit down, and I will ask again…How has your week been?’



I waffled and made a couple of false starts before ‘Tuesday was hell. I never imagined I could reach a point where I literally couldn’t close my eyes without being straight there.’

‘It’s more intense than usual?’

‘Yes, it is definitely more intense, and I am worried that a pattern is developing.’



R said something about whether I was concerned that this would now mean that I would not be able to sleep. I confirmed that, and then said that I wondered if it would be easier to deal with during the day, because I can distract myself more. I have been wondering about dissociation, but chances are if you’re wondering about dissociation, then you aren’t.

‘When I think about what you tell me about your nights, I picture you as very alone with this.’



‘Absolutely, and then there is the violence of it.’

‘Can you explain a little more, to help me understand?’

‘It starts with…’She called me into the bathroom to help with something, and then collapsed,’ and then goes on to the rest of the narrative.’



‘When you had your eyes closed there, I sensed that you were seeing something, but I feel a bit blocked, as though I am on the outside of that.’

‘I am not a visual person, but with that ‘She called me into the bathroom to help with something and then collapsed’…I see it all. It’s filmic.’



‘So it’s not as if you’re reading words or remembering emails that were sent. From these you have created an image that you can’t get rid of.’

‘It’s the violence of it….if we can call it the movie version.’

‘You’ve said that twice now – can you explain a bit more about what you mean?’

‘I hate making comparisons, but when Chris died, I knew nothing. The information I was given was simple..’



‘Minimal?’

‘Yes…I only knew that something was very wrong towards the end…nice job projecting thoughts and feelings, but I think she would be horrified at what has happened to me because of this. And they hoodwinked her too. ****, no. You don’t do that.’



‘When you talk about Chris, I have the sense that your values were similar.’

‘Yes, she didn’t want me to know anything about what was going on…and that’s love.’



R and I talked some more about how my relationship with Chris is entirely separate from the wider situation, and I told her that for what remains of the sacred for me, my relationship with Chris is in there.



I felt invigorated, and wanted to continue talking about the nights, but didn’t get much further than ‘It’s a spiral, that starts with…that starts with ‘She called me into the bathroom to help her with something and then collapsed…’ Why does this mental imagery cause such physical pain?’

‘Are you talking about something you are experiencing now, Lost?’

‘Yes.’ I didn’t, and don’t know how to, tell her that my arms and chest felt like they were burning. There were moments in there where I came close to asking whether I could hold her hand, and others where I would have appreciated a reminder to breathe.



She shared with me that she sensed things had come to a head today. She sensed that I am feeling overwhelmed, and reassured me that I can email next week if I need to. Next session is in two weeks.
__________________
'Somewhere up above the great divide
Where the sky is wide, and the clouds are few
A man can see his way clear to the light
Just hold on tight, that's all you gotta do...'

Steve Earle - Fort Worth Blues

'You have all the grace you need for today, and today is all that matters.' - Steve Austin
Hugs from:
LonesomeTonight, lucozader, WarmFuzzySocks
Thanks for this!
lucozader
  #448  
Old Oct 19, 2017, 02:28 PM
Jessica Hazlitt's Avatar
Jessica Hazlitt Jessica Hazlitt is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 394
Today's session was lovely. We sat with our arms linked. He put his hand on mine at one point. Then when I had my head on his shoulder he put his head on top 😊 At the end I nuzzled him and kissed his cheek ☺ It was so lovely and I didn't even start to dissociate despite tricky topics. Thanks T.
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127
  #449  
Old Oct 25, 2017, 06:38 PM
Anonymous55499
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Interesting first session. I got really upset when she was nearly 15 minutes late, until she sent me an email asking if I was still coming.

Here’s what happened:

The complex she’s in has 3 floors. One is at the basement level, and the other two are above ground. I went to 101, which is what her website said. 101 is a therapy office. Her suite is B101, so in the basement. Whoops. She said no big deal, I’m not the first new client she’s had that’s done it.

She asked me first why therapy now? I told her that I recently terminated with another therapist, RoboT, but still want to make progress. She was interested (of course). Who? I didn’t want to tell her. I eventually did and she shrugged. “Don’t know him,” which I’m immensely grateful for. She asked why I terminated, and I said that the attachment vs his retirement was too much to handle. That plus the self-disclosure. “What kind of things did he tell you? Sexual?” I mean he talked about his sex life with his wife once, but in the context of my sex life with my husband. No, it was what he shared about his psychological state and past traumas that did it for me.

Standard intake otherwise. She asked me many more questions about my psychiatric history than any other therapist has. “When was the first time that you noticed any psychological symptoms? You’ve been hospitalized? How many times? Where? How long was your stay?” She also asked about medications. Nothings been helpful. “Okay, so what have you taken?” I told her everything but the kitchen sink.

So toward the end she asked me if I knew any diagnosis that I’d received. I listed all of the different ones (GAD, PDD, MDD, Bipolar) and she asked which one made the most sense to me. I said none of the above, so she asked what I’d given myself. Lol. I said BPD, and she said “well, that makes the whole ‘meds never helped’ thing make more sense.”

She asked at the end if I had any questions. I paused a moment and said, “well, I have one, but it’s kind of unfair. Based on our conversation, first impressions, what do you think our course looks like?”

She leaned back and said it’s a difficult question to answer, and a bit unfair. I laughed and agreed. But I really needed some kind of screener to avoid the debacle that was the rebound after RoboT.

In a nutshell, she said that she means it when she says she’s collaborative. That I’m the expert in me. She mentioned DBT specifically since one of my main goals is emotional regulation. That she expects our course to nonlinear. I’ll make progress and backslide. If something isn’t working I should tell her.

That was about it. I like her overall. Younger than any I’ve seen before, but she seems competent. I scheduled my next appointment for Monday. As I left she said to feel free to some Halloween candy that she had on the coffee table in front of the couch. “Please. I don’t want it here much past Halloween.” I’ll never say no to a Reese’s cup.
Hugs from:
atisketatasket, LonesomeTonight, unaluna
Thanks for this!
Amyjay, anais_anais, Anonymous45127, captgut, ElectricManatee, LonesomeTonight, naenin, WarmFuzzySocks
  #450  
Old Oct 25, 2017, 06:56 PM
anais_anais's Avatar
anais_anais anais_anais is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Mar 2017
Location: up
Posts: 1,967
L didn't talk about meds. Thank god.

She also has a very different recollection of what our temporary payment agreement was for Oct/Nov.

I didn't have the energy to counter her. It was a good session otherwise but ai'm so sad that she's checked out like this. She may as well just move now.
__________________
*・゜゚・*:.。。.:*・'((something in English))'・*:..。.:*・゜゚・*
Hugs from:
atisketatasket, ElectricManatee, LonesomeTonight, unaluna, WarmFuzzySocks
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127
Reply
Views: 198878

attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:29 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.