I felt bad for spamming the larger threads, so I opted to post separately about what I've been going through with my T. I posted about our session earlier today here. It's been so difficult for me to deal with all of this,
especially since I am/was so attached to him. I feel like a failure that the relationship fell apart, I guess because it only serves my hypothesis that I do have BPD. I idealized him, and now I'm devaluing him. I sent him the following e-mail this evening to terminate services:

Hello,

I apologize that I am contacting you outside of session. This is contrary to my nature, and I hope you are able to appreciate how difficult this is for me.

At this time, I would like to end the therapeutic relationship between us. While I feel that I have been able to achieve considerable insights and make some gain in our time together, I also feel that continuing to work together will only serve as further detriment to my current emotional state. You said today that I was sensing frustration from you in regards to our work, and I believe that is an accurate representation of what I've interpreted from our last few sessions. This has evoked for me profound feelings of despair, which has only compounded similar feelings brought on by other recent events in my life. I also feel as though you have been dismissive of what I feel are serious concerns as of late. Perhaps you are accurate in saying that I am strong and resilient, as it was only through sheer determination of will that I did not act upon the impulsive thoughts that I had immediately following our session today.

I would like to thank you for the positive outcomes that stem from our work together, though it is difficult at this juncture to do so. I do feel that I am able to more accurately identify what it is that triggers my episodes of destructive depression, and that this knowledge has helped me to slightly lessen their duration and frequency.

I would like to request any referrals you may have for a suitable therapist for me to visit in the future should I decide to continue seeking therapeutic services. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Daisy

I guess I'm just looking for support through what's been a very difficult time. I'm also going through a lot in my personal life and my professional life, so frankly it all feels like it's falling apart at the seams.

[atisketatasket]

Daisy - that whole idealizing/devaluing thing with BPD has never cut ice with me. Because we all do that to some degree in our relationships. You seemed fond of RoboT in your posts on here, but not idealizing. And my sense is he hasn't been too present for you the last couple sessions, so I wouldn't call it devaluing. I would call it your valid reaction.

As for BPD in general, I don't know if you want a diagnosis of it or not - I get the sense not. But the more I read about it the more skeptical I am of it as a viable diagnosis. It is not as cut and dried as DSM makes it out to be.

[ElectricManatee]

I'm sorry, Daisy, it sounds like this has been really rough for you. I hope your T crafts a reply that gives you what you need from him.

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Daisy - that whole idealizing/devaluing thing with BPD has never cut ice with me. Because we all do that to some degree in our relationships. You seemed fond of RoboT in your posts on here, but not idealizing. And my sense is he hasn't been too present for you the last couple sessions, so I wouldn't call it devaluing. I would call it your valid reaction.

As for BPD in general, I don't know if you want a diagnosis of it or not - I get the sense not. But the more I read about it the more skeptical I am of it as a viable diagnosis. It is not as cut and dried as DSM makes it out to be.

I don't particularly want any diagnosis, and I would agree with you that any of the Cluster B diagnoses aren't cut and dried. I do know that I have significant struggles with impulsivity and emotional regulation. It's the idealization/devaluing that I'm iffy on.

Regardless of what the label is (BPD, CPTSD), I feel like my prognosis is not good. I wanted T today to say that there is hope, maybe I can get better. Instead I heard that he's been frustrated with our work together and he feels like he's failing me. So perhaps I can't be helped. I know that he's not the one that can help anymore. I feel like we've spun our wheels trying to repair months of damage, and frankly, he and I would be done in 4 months whether or not things got better. I just need to move on, I guess.

[kecanoe]

Honestly, your email sounds quite calm and measured, not impulsive and devaluing. You sound thoughtful and hurt, which is entirely appropriate. I agree with ATAT that your reactions to your t are quite normal and healthy.

Sorry T let you down like this. Jerk.

[awkwardlyyours]

I agree with ATAT and KC.

I'd also add -- eff all diagnoses at this point (I understand the urge, all too well, to name and identify things [however imperfectly] in an effort to impose order on what feels like unbearable internal chaos but I also think doing so can take one down roads that are sort of hard to come back from, especially when embarked on at times of incredible fragility).

I would think -- as ruthlessly objectively as possible -- if any modicum of support you could obtain from the T would help make a material difference to your emotional life right now. If not, then the answer is clear. If yes, then perhaps continuing for the time being -- while being excruciatingly explicit about the hurt / pain you're experiencing by his behavior -- might be the way to go while also working towards the December date and obtaining referrals during the interim (and potentially checking out the referrals while continuing to see him)?

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

I agree with ATAT and KC.

I'd also add -- eff all diagnoses at this point (I understand the urge, all too well, to name and identify things [however imperfectly] in an effort to impose order on what feels like unbearable internal chaos but I also think doing so can take one down roads that are sort of hard to come back from, especially when embarked on at times of incredible fragility).

I would think -- as ruthlessly objectively as possible -- if any modicum of support you could obtain from the T would help make a material difference to your emotional life right now. If not, then the answer is clear. If yes, then perhaps continuing for the time being -- while being excruciatingly explicit about the hurt / pain you're experiencing by his behavior -- might be the way to go while also working towards the December date and obtaining referrals during the interim (and potentially checking out the referrals while continuing to see him)?

I guess I've always conceptualized diagnosis in a way where it helps to makes sense of all of the internal strife. But you're right. There's really no need to cling to a diagnosis, save if I were to start exploring starting to take psychotropic medications again. I'm considering it.

Thank you for asking about support from T. I honestly don't think there's anything to gain there. I said to him today how hurt I was a couple of weeks ago when I felt that he wanted to be rid of me, and his response was to express his frustrations in my treatment. Anything that he says now...I probably wouldn't believe him.

[BudFox]

I just don't see how a failed therapy relationship is a meaningful reflection of the client's true self. It's not real life. Could bring out some true aspects, but could just as easily be a serious distortion. There is a formal logical fallacy that relates to this, conflating a game with real life.

As for DSM "diagnoses" i think it's very important for mental health to reject them out of hand.

Originally Posted by BudFox

I just don't see how a failed therapy relationship is a meaningful reflection of the client's true self. It's not real life. Could bring out some true aspects, but could just as easily be a serious distortion. There is a formal logical fallacy that relates to this, conflating a game with real life.

As for DSM "diagnoses" i think it's very important for mental health to reject them out of hand.

I had a feeling that this thread would draw you in.

I agree and I don't. The therapeutic relationship is inherently outside of reality, but it's still real in the sense that both the therapist and the client are real people with real emotions. So while it could easily be a distortion, it could also be used to illuminate patterns of behavior or interaction that are worth looking at.

[missbella]

I found the therapy relationship had little connection to how interacted outside it. As a supplicant seeking some kind of vague enlightenment the therapist seemed to dose in tiny drops, it left me enfeebled, infantilized and adulating. They made the rules, owned the narrative and identified me as the defective in the presence of their powerful omniscience. I disrobed emotionally, they concealed. I thought I needed "something"; they pretended to sell it. They pretended to understand me--but didn't. There was no mutual flow or give and take. Every exchange was within the time-limited framework of an engineered structure. Whatever affection shown stopped when the money did.

My outside relationships were by no means perfect. I had many changes I needed to make. But nothing was as delusional, exploitative and unbalanced as this.

Originally Posted by missbella

I found the therapy relationship had little connection to how interacted outside it. As a supplicant seeking some kind of vague enlightenment the therapist seemed to dose in tiny drops, it left me enfeebled, infantilized and adulating. They made the rules, owned the narrative and identified me as the defective in the presence of their powerful omniscience. I disrobed emotionally, they concealed. I thought I needed "something"; they pretended to sell it. They pretended to understand me--but didn't. There was no mutual flow or give and take. Every exchange was within the time-limited framework of an engineered structure. Whatever affection shown stopped when the money did.

My outside relationships were by no means perfect. I had many changes I needed to make. But nothing was as delusional, exploitative and unbalanced as this.

I know that the dynamic you describe is incredibly difficult, because I have been in therapeutic relationships like this. And while there was an inherent power differential between T and me, there was also a deep understanding on his part of me and he shared quite a bit with me as well. Too much at times, actually. One of his pitfalls. H also never owned the narrative. That's contrary to his practicing modality.

This is why I said in my initial post that I was looking for support. I'm terminating with a therapist who at one time was a wonderful match for me and I was able with him to do some good work. That's why I'm so heartbroken that it needed to end. It's different now, and we don't have enough time to fix it. I don't want to continue to try to invest time to fix it.

[lucozader]

Seems like some people didn't notice that what Daisy asked for was support. Not yet another debate about therapy and whether it's helpful or harmful.

((Daisy)) that was a very well written and honest and clear message.

I really don't believe that you're beyond help or that any of this is your fault. RoboT just wasn't good enough for you. He couldn't help you because he wasn't the right therapist for you.

ETA: ...and I agree with others that you don't seem to be idealising or devaluing here. You seem to be being very rational - recognising the good and bad points of the relationship and the help you have received but concluding that it's not the right thing for you. Whether you have BPD or not, it's impressive that you're doing that.

Originally Posted by lucozader

Seems like some people didn't notice that what Daisy asked for was support. Not yet another debate about therapy and whether it's helpful or harmful.


((Daisy)) that was a very well written and honest and clear message.


I really don't believe that you're beyond help or that any of this is your fault. RoboT just wasn't good enough for you. He couldn't help you because he wasn't the right therapist for you.


ETA: ...and I agree with others that you don't seem to be idealising or devaluing here. You seem to be being very rational - recognising the good and bad points of the relationship and the help you have received but concluding that it's not the right thing for you. Whether you have BPD or not, it's impressive that you're doing that.

Thanks, luc. Sigh. I don't agree with you that it's all his fault, though.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by daisydid

Thanks, luc. Sigh. I don't agree with you that it's all his fault, though.

I didn't necessarily say that it's all his fault! Although my personal opinion is that he's not a very good therapist (though as I said to you, I don't see my opinion as particularly relevant here)... His approach might work great for some people. It just wasn't right for you. So in that sense it isn't anyone's 'fault'.

I just really don't want you to beat yourself up over this, I guess. I really think you're handling it so well despite the pain it is causing you. I suppose that's why people think you're coping so well...

I relate, though. I was thinking about how I will feel if I leave my T... and the answer was, I will feel like a failure, like I'm broken and beyond help. So... The same as you. I think that comes from somewhere deep inside us.

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by daisydid

I guess I've always conceptualized diagnosis in a way where it helps to makes sense of all of the internal strife. But you're right. There's really no need to cling to a diagnosis, save if I were to start exploring starting to take psychotropic medications again. I'm considering it.

Thank you for asking about support from T. I honestly don't think there's anything to gain there. I said to him today how hurt I was a couple of weeks ago when I felt that he wanted to be rid of me, and his response was to express his frustrations in my treatment. Anything that he says now...I probably wouldn't believe him.

Geez. Are you and I twins? Because this is me exactly. The only difference is I mailed my termination letter and didn't ask for referrals.

Originally Posted by Calilady

Geez. Are you and I twins? Because this is me exactly, although I mailed my termination letter and didn't ask for referrals.

I figured since one of the ways he's pushed me away is the future promise of good referrals, I might as well take him up on it.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by daisydid

I figured since one of the ways he's pushed me away is the future promise of good referrals, I might as well take him up on it.

Are you gonna trust his referrals though, given that you've lost your trust in him? Might it be better to look for a new T with no relation to him?

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by daisydid

I know that the dynamic you describe is incredibly difficult, because I have been in therapeutic relationships like this. And while there was an inherent power differential between T and me, there was also a deep understanding on his part of me and he shared quite a bit with me as well. Too much at times, actually. One of his pitfalls. H also never owned the narrative. That's contrary to his practicing modality.

This is why I said in my initial post that I was looking for support. I'm terminating with a therapist who at one time was a wonderful match for me and I was able with him to do some good work. That's why I'm so heartbroken that it needed to end. It's different now, and we don't have enough time to fix it. I don't want to continue to try to invest time to fix it.

This is exactly my situation is well. I find it remarkably strange, reluctantly, how something that once worked so well can devolve- or even plummet- to something unsalvageable and what looks to be completely foreign, in the end.

Heartbroken. As am I. You have something I don't encompass and which I commend you for...you could terminate your T relationship, not having to block the person out, worried you may not be able to leave. My heart goes out to you.

You're self-aware enough to know this doesn't work for you. There is growth in that and in your reply. I have found the regulating my emotions is by only going through them. I get stronger with each heartbreak and this too, will be in your favor. It will serve you.

To walk away from this is very hard, I know...especially being attached. I hope you're not in too much pain, but just know someone out there completely gets everything you're saying.

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by daisydid

I figured since one of the ways he's pushed me away is the future promise of good referrals, I might as well take him up on it.

Do you think this is punishment for him? From you? No judgements if it is. Just curious.

My T once did this, although in a different way. My instinctual reaction was, "Is she trying to push me to show her I can do this?"

I have BPD. I've slowly grown past its symptoms with age. Or experience. I surmise I'll always be challenged by it, but I don't fall for the stories online that say you can never heal from it.

Yes, asking for referrals was 100% motivated by a desire to rub his nose in it. I want him to know that I am not interested in returning because of how badly he's hurt me.

I know this sounds like sarcasm or that I'm being flippant but I'm so serious.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by daisydid

This is why I said in my initial post that I was looking for support.

I assume this is your oblique way of imparting how I woefully fell short of my intention to be supportive. I clearly failed to understand your rules.

When my therapists turned vicious bullies in front of the 10-member group therapy, I needed to realize the therapists were not magically enlightened or mythologically omnipotent human beings. But what would have been useful for me is an infraction here.

Originally Posted by missbella

I assume this is your oblique way of imparting how I woefully fell short of my intention to be supportive. I clearly failed to understand your rules.

When my therapists turned vicious bullies in front of the 10-member group therapy, I needed to realize the therapists were not magically enlightened or mythologically omnipotent human beings. But what would have been useful for me is an infraction here.

I apologize; my intention wasn't to diminish your post in any way. I was simply trying to say that my experience is so different than yours that it felt like you were simply trying to be pejorative toward therapy in general.

You're right that it isn't helpful to idealize therapists. They're human just like we are. And I still believe my now former therapist is a very good human being who wanted to be helpful to me in navigating through a ridiculous amount of childhood trauma. I'm just not sure where it all went wrong. Again, I'm sorry if I made you feel as though I was putting you down in any way.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by lucozader

Seems like some people didn't notice that what Daisy asked for was support. Not yet another debate about therapy and whether it's helpful or harmful.

I assume I'm the "some people" to which you're referring. I offered my own personal process in trying to recover from a vicious, hubristic, gaslighting therapist. I don't know how that could be read as an efficacy discussion.

[ElectricManatee]

I keep thinking about this, and it makes perfect sense to me that you're having such a hard time with your T while a premature termination is looming on the horizon. I would be feeling the exact same way if I knew my T was going to be unavailable to me before I really felt like I was ready to be done. I think the most puzzling thing is that your T doesn't seem to recognize this and/or doesn't understand how to help you through it. That alone makes me think it might be time to try to wind down with him and/or transition to somebody new. The only thing that is helpful to me, sometimes, is my T's seemingly supernaturally steady presence and availability. If she couldn't offer me that anymore, I'm not sure I would want anything from her at all. That's the whole trick of the attachment work.

[stopdog]

Are you going to be okay with it if the therapist just writes back with a few referrals and does not ask you to come back?