His burst of anger and then blaming it on me. Not apologizing for it.
Raising his voice with condemnation to it when telling me about myself (one of his methods is analysis).
Using pessimism such as “you need friends or else you’ll be alone”.
Or “You need to think of others, you can’t be wrapped up in your own feelings” - when I just told him I care first and foremost about my own feelings. Again with a condemning tone.
Telling me I attack others with anger. When I asked him how does he know, his response is “you’re attacking me”, making me feel bad about releasing anger rather than have my right to express it. Also, it was unhealthy “mind-reading”, and he’d excuse such remarks with “If you behave such way with me then you probably behave such way with others”.
He was very angry with me when I came in to see him. I think he knew it was my buttons. He used it to keep me in. His gaslightings did not work, but he left me vulnerable since he is not willing to make a conclusive meeting.
He’d also leave me with “doorknob therapy conditions”, except he would never “close the can”. I even told him more than once that I want to close it to which he said “So you want us to work on how to close the meeting.” Guess what? At that moment, he did not close it. He wanted me to think of the things, instead of closing it so I won’t be in such a vulnerable state outside.

There could be more.

Please help me deal with this.

[magicalprince]

He can't help you with what he can't comprehend. Why not find a T who gets you and cares instead?

[CrayCentral]

Not sure if he was just having a bad day or if it’s something personal that’s built up his ego enough to act so defensively unprofessional. Regardless you should start charging him every session including petrol money on top of that.

I hope that if you continue in therapy, you can find a therapist that will help you find ways to express the rage that does come through quite a bit here on PC. That internal rage can really be detrimental when we don't find ways to healthily communicate it and work through it, leading to serious depression and anxiety in many people. That was always a big issue in my therapy; I turned that rage inward on myself. It sounds like this therapist's approach to working with anger issues isn't working for you. Is finding a different therapist with a style and approach that works better for you a possibility?

[Rose76]

This guy sounds toxic to me. You need to get away from him. I don't think he's destroying you. I think he's destroying any semblence of a therapeutic relationship with you. How did you get this therapist? Did you pick him out, or did someone else?

He sounds very inappropriate. From what I've read of your posts you don't strike me as all that angry in your manner. But this guy seems to have quite a potential for hostility. From time to time (and it's happened to me) you can find yourself with a mental health professional who just doesn't like you. I don't think that person can do you much good . . . or any good.

Are you at liberty to choose another therapist? This guy seems to act like he's got control over you. He sounds flat out abusive to me. Never assume that having letters after one's name guarantees anything. He may be a jerk.

[here today]

Sounds to me like you're doing a good job of being able to discriminate some possible things about him that are not-so-good.

That's a good skill to have and develop -- one that I did not have early on, one that had been "scrapped" and stomped on early in my life because that resulted in observations that others in my life didn't like -- and "rejected" me for having.

If you can "hold your own", perhaps knowing that there are others here you will support you even if your potential observations are "wrong" or incomplete. Seems like that could be an interesting way out of a vulnerable feeling?

[Rose76]

I have some recollection of other threads you've posted. I think this therapist is basically an extension of your parents who are already too intrusive in your life. Isn't this the guy who made some snide remark to your mother about you? This guy is basically on your folk's payroll. His real client is them, not you. Have you gotten anything positive out of seeing him?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

Using pessimism such as 1. “you need friends or else you’ll be alone”.
Or “You need to think of others, you can’t be wrapped up in your own feelings” - when I just told him I care first and foremost about my own feelings. Again with a condemning tone.
Telling me I attack others with anger. When I asked him how does he know, his response is “you’re attacking me”, 2. making me feel bad about releasing anger rather than have my right to express it.

Also, it was unhealthy “mind-reading”, and he’d excuse such remarks with 3. “If you behave such way with me then you probably behave such way with others”...

Please help me deal with this.

Point 3 above is the basis on which psychotherapy is built, its not peculiar to you. Its why and how psychotherapy can work.

Point 2 - you claim you have this right relative to this person (the therapist). How do you know you have this right? Do you have a contract stating it? Maybe you have to ask for the right. This is not trivial!

Point 1 - our parents could have made it easier for us to tolerate friends. Instead they forced us to choose between having our parents (and surviving), or having friends. Now, older, we need friends to survive (and mate with etc). If we dont adapt, our genes will not survive, period. Some parents do succeed in killing their young. Your therapist is trying to make that not happen. Again, not trivial.

[Purple,Violet,Blue]

There seems to be mixed reactions to your post, Vibrating.

No-one doubts that you're suffering, and it's a shame that's happening in what should feel like a safe place.

I have to be honest though, and say that I can sense a lot of anger from you. And it's coming out because the therapist symbolically represents your parents.

That's just my opinion.

There's nothing wrong with that. It's one of the things therapy is for. But if you're in denial about it, you could keep putting up smokescreens for years, and that won't help.

Your therapist sounds negative and all gloom and doom.

Using pessimism such as “you need friends or else you’ll be alone”.

I believe in this too, but there are helpful ways in helping you and unhelpful ways. Being around someone positive, hopeful, encouraging might make a difference, especially if you are prone to introjection. Emotions are contagious.

He comes across as not being on your side, or you are experiencing that way as that's what your writing reflects. Having a supportive person in your life can go a long way. Who wants to seek help from someone negative instead of positive.

People turn out having more to give and share, loving, when they are loved. Hate, judgement, and criticism don't transform to love, it transforms to anger, hate, despondency.

[unaluna]

My t completely agrees with rayne. To answer my own question in point #2, my t would say that is your right as a result of coming to therapy, because unconditional positive regard is the only thing that works.

Originally Posted by unaluna

My t completely agrees with rayne. To answer my own question in point #2, my t would say that is your right as a result of coming to therapy, because unconditional positive regard is the only thing that works.

Wish my own T agreed with us...

Do Ts usually give unconditional positive regard when the client expresses anger? Doesnt seem to happen as much as one would think.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by Rayne_

Wish my own T agreed with us...

Do Ts usually give unconditional positive regard when the client expresses anger? Doesnt seem to happen as much as one would think.

I got the anger reaction twice, both from a pdoc and from a therapist. The "unconditional positive regard" completely evaporated. I thought it was highly unprofessional. I've concluded that these individuals had their own egos whose welfare came before mine.

Originally Posted by Rose76

I got the anger reaction twice, both from a pdoc and from a therapist. The "unconditional positive regard" completely evaporated. I thought it was highly unprofessional. I've concluded that these individuals had their own egos whose welfare came before mine.

Sad to hear when this happens.

I also think that abuse and betrayal can trigger anger or rage in people. It doesn't necessarily have to come from the past.

It's quite different to seek out someone in the helping profession for help with your emotions vs effects of an abusive partner. It has quite a different quality to be betrayed by someone who is supposed to have a trustworthy character, who has been privileged with a license to not harm. Also why clergy abuse has a different quality.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by Rayne_

Do Ts usually give unconditional positive regard when the client expresses anger? Doesnt seem to happen as much as one would think.

i walked out the door today going "You suck" to my T. She was just like "see you next week!"

Originally Posted by velcro003

i walked out the door today going "You suck" to my T. She was just like "see you next week!"

Ideally, that's how it should be. My T would totally scorn me of I said something like that.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Rayne_

Ideally, that's how it should be. My T would totally scorn me of I said something like that.

My last one would have, too, and three before that. Unconditional NEGATIVE regard in response to my anger. Clearly, great pain on my part and shutting down or ruptures on those occasions and I never was able to work things out with any of them. What is it that is wrong with me? Definitely incompetent at therapy as well as life in general. Well, could be lots of things wrong with me but I finally decided, after the last T, that the problem lay with the therapists and not me because whatever it is that might be "wrong" with me, that's something I brought to therapy for help with. How can the therapists help with something which they cannot accept?

Yes, like VO's T I know that many people will not want to be in my life if I get mad at them. My mother, aunts, and grandmother had that attitude, too. And THEY certainly didn't accept or positively regard me or whatever I was upset about when I got mad. So I learned as a little kid NEVER to get mad. And I didn't have people hating me but I didn't have any real friends, except my late husband, because I wasn't "real".

Catch-22. Therapy, and/or therapists, need to do a better job with this kind of situation -- if they want the people who come to them for help to learn to live full, happy lives. But. . .I'm not so sure that's high on the priorities of the many whom I have seen.

(((here today)))

Anyone is lucky to have a T who is ok with anger. It is totally soul destroying otherwise.

I don't think it's you either. I don't see any difference here in those whose anger is accepted vs those whose isn't. It's the therapist. I've had several Ts in the past and only one of several ever had an issue with anything i said or did.

So glad you stopped saying/thinking there is something wrong with you. No one here is more righteous than the next. Don't forget, people can have a fake veneer of niceness and be really mean on the inside. Everyone is capable of anger, it's a natural emotion.

ps VO-sorry for the side focus, multiple posts.

pps deleted my account, nowhere comfortable to discuss this.

[Rose76]

Therapists who are emotionally mature should be able to hear upset remarks from clients without personalizing those remarks. Professionals who become angrily defensive have lost their professionalism.

That is not to say that the professional has no right to require a client to show some modicum of respect. Psych facilities generally issue a statement of Rights and Responsibilities that says patients are to be treated with respect and they should treat staff with respect. That same expectation should prevail in offices, as well. This can be a teaching opportunity for pdocs and therapists. Clients of psych services often come from environments where they have not been respected and may be confused about the respect they owe to others. It is way more the responsibility of the clinician to uphold principals of mutual respect and teach those as part of therapy. The professional cannot forbid the client from having emotional outbursts. That goes with the territory. But a skillful, mature professional should be committed to resolving that upset in a way that promotes respect for the dignity of both parties. That may take more than one session to do. The professional does that calmly. Anyone can lose their cool. That's human. The professional calms down and revisits the exchange in a way that is instructive about the respect that persons working together owe each other.

The professional does not try to win a game of one-upsmanship. Implying that a client is never going to have friends and will probably end up alone in the world is pretty obviously nothing more than emotional retaliation by someone who is probably too thin-skinned to be in this line of work.

[Wonderfalls]

I agree with Rose76, but I wonder if it might be maddening if your therapist treated every emotion you had with complete calm.

Thanks for the support guys. I read everything, but I'll naturally reply to the critical replies.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Point 3 above is the basis on which psychotherapy is built, its not peculiar to you. Its why and how psychotherapy can work.

Point 2 - you claim you have this right relative to this person (the therapist). How do you know you have this right? Do you have a contract stating it? Maybe you have to ask for the right. This is not trivial!

Point 1 - our parents could have made it easier for us to tolerate friends. Instead they forced us to choose between having our parents (and surviving), or having friends. Now, older, we need friends to survive (and mate with etc). If we dont adapt, our genes will not survive, period. Some parents do succeed in killing their young. Your therapist is trying to make that not happen. Again, not trivial.

3 - Yes, I know that. But the emphasis has to be on "probably".
2 - When I first read it, it started sounding abusive, as if I need permission to do whatever.
Rationally I will say this - "If it's not disallowed, then it's allowed".
1 - What are you talking about when saying "killing their young"? I can agree my parents are limiting my growth and it's one of the reasons I want to go away from home. But it still sounds extreme. And how would you know it's my therapist's intentions?

I also read your second post when you found out therapists should always give "positive regard".
But still, I had this bottled up so I had to reply to your previous post. It's an issue I'm working on.

Originally Posted by Purple,Violet,Blue

There seems to be mixed reactions to your post, Vibrating.

No-one doubts that you're suffering, and it's a shame that's happening in what should feel like a safe place.

I have to be honest though, and say that I can sense a lot of anger from you. And it's coming out because the therapist symbolically represents your parents.

That's just my opinion.

There's nothing wrong with that. It's one of the things therapy is for. But if you're in denial about it, you could keep putting up smokescreens for years, and that won't help.

Yes, I do deny that I have "things to work on". But if my therapist makes an error and instead of apologizing says "No one's perfect, we all make mistakes" and putting it all on me with his projecting pessimism, then I'll learn from the teacher.

That's it with the replies. So yes, I do have issues. People relations still bother me. There are moments when I can be "rude", such as raising my voice in the library when defending myself from people's advice. There are people who can dig their nose such as someone who said according to what I say I have depression.
I should have asked him if he's a doctor instead.
I get easily hurt during university.

Someone asked if there were positive moments with my therapist. He wanted to work on my emotions and I could feel it helps after a session.
He also "awakened" my emotions during one sessions and it felt very energizing during the moment.
But there's was something about that raised voice that made me want to leave. It's because I used to let it pass with some friends and it only made me increasingly angrier with them. I don't want anyone to get the habit of being angry with me because of their own issues and blaming it all on me. I don't deserve it, and no one else does either.

[here today]

I like you, VO. And I like you replying to the critical replies. Sounds like you're finding this a place where you can stand up for yourself.

Can you elaborate on "that raised voice" and it's impact on you? One goal I would have for myself is that I could tolerate female therapists (and other females) disdain for me without. . .whatever it is that I do in response to that. I think it's called, or used to be called, "developing a psychological skin". However, skin can't grow well if there is infection in a "wound" underneath, which is what I have been "working on" in therapy for years, without much success, and with some T's just making the "infection" worse.

I have had some success just processing the damage from the last T's disdain and rejection of me, as I have discussed. And think I would/might be OK at this point if I could find a non-toxic, non-rejecting social environment to let the skin grow naturally in. But I'm old and it's kind of hard to find at my age. (Still working on it, just saying. . .)

What do you do when you get hurt during university? Does it disrupt your ongoing relationships with people there? Have you considered a support group or something like that at your university? Or, some schools even have "free" counseling, I think. Have you considered that? If it doesn't work out, then you could just stop.

Oh, well, maybe none of this will be helpful to you. In which case, you can just ignore it or tell me so. Best wishes.

Originally Posted by here today

I like you, VO. And I like you replying to the critical replies. Sounds like you're finding this a place where you can stand up for yourself.

Can you elaborate on "that raised voice" and it's impact on you? One goal I would have for myself is that I could tolerate female therapists (and other females) disdain for me without. . .whatever it is that I do in response to that. I think it's called, or used to be called, "developing a psychological skin". However, skin can't grow well if there is infection in a "wound" underneath, which is what I have been "working on" in therapy for years, without much success, and with some T's just making the "infection" worse.

I have had some success just processing the damage from the last T's disdain and rejection of me, as I have discussed. And think I would/might be OK at this point if I could find a non-toxic, non-rejecting social environment to let the skin grow naturally in. But I'm old and it's kind of hard to find at my age. (Still working on it, just saying. . .)

What do you do when you get hurt during university? Does it disrupt your ongoing relationships with people there? Have you considered a support group or something like that at your university? Or, some schools even have "free" counseling, I think. Have you considered that? If it doesn't work out, then you could just stop.

Oh, well, maybe none of this will be helpful to you. In which case, you can just ignore it or tell me so. Best wishes.

I always stand up for myself when facing critical remarks, it doesn't have to be here.
But I'll try to answer what you have to ask.
That "raised voice" is a reminder of people blaming me for their own issues. Such as my father snapping at me because of his own issues. Since he's been at home with no work for a few years, he's become a micro-manager.
It's also a reminder of a friend I had who'd drive irresponsibly, and once made critical remarks about my driving, about very minor things.

In university, I have my own issues. Not only do I attempt to fight many fronts, but I am desperately trying to be socially successful.
I am just disappointed with myself regarding social life and tend to become obsessed with the idea of success.

I remember why I tend to avoid such questions. Because from my experience they invite more and more critical remarks.

[here today]

Thanks, no critical remarks here.

I think I get it and wish you well.

[unaluna]

Thanks for understanding me. You are right, i did change horses in midstream there.

The reference to parents killing their young - the comedienne Roseanne often spoke of this, and for some reason it stuck in my ear. Most parents probably help or encourage their children to carry on the family name. My parents really did not. Its as if their own self hatred manifests in their children, or the hatred the grandparents had for the parents? Or the parents for their own parents?

In any case, it certainly halts the line of succession. Its as if the parents dont understand what life is about, and therefore they fail to pass that knowledge (and love) on to us, their children. That is what the therapist tries to fix - to reconnect you to the line of human history.