[SarahSweden]

I´ve met with a new T two times now and there were several things I wanted to bring up so I asked her if I could give her a text I had written. She accepted that, I had written about what I need in a therapist and some things that upset me during our last meeting.

She read it, she more or less choose some of it and read it out loud but she barely commented on anything. She told me she doesn´t do chit-chat in connection to my opinion about how she ended our last session. But she didn´t tell me how she thought we could work on this, she didn´t validate any of my feelings and she didn´t seem to think of this as therapeutical material.

We then continued with her questions as we do evaluation sessions. She asked me several questions and when I talked she just said "mm" to almost everything. When I paused, she asked another question. She didn´t comment on anything I said, she hasn´t presented herself, I don´t see anything that could be relationally oriented.

At the end she wanted to give the document back to me and I was both surprised and a bit offended that she didn´t want to keep it and read it again and use it for our therapy. She did read it but such a document should be interesting to her, to look at some more and perhaps reflect upon. I had put energy into that text and showed I wanted to try to get her to understand.

I can´t understand how she sees herself as a relational T, she though have the proper education. I see her more like a psychoanalytical T (she isn´t a psychoanalyst) as she barely interacts with me.

[SlumberKitty]

I'm not sure I understand what a relational T is. I've been seeing current T for maybe 13 months and I would say I am just now getting to the point where I am considering the therapeutic relationship with her. It probably took a little less time with that with former T but still it took a while. I think it is good that you gave her the text to read but I'm sorry you didn't get more of the response that you are looking for. I am wondering if you are still in the orientation phase with this T. You mentioned evaluation sessions. I think the first couple of sessions are usually sort of orientation like where the T is trying to get a sense of you and what difficulties have you had up until this point and how to develop a treatment plan that would help you. I'm not sure that the relationship has come into play yet. But relationship between T and client is one of the important aspects in the outcome of therapy. She might not be a good fit for you. I don't remember. Were you assigned this T or are you able to choose another T? If you are able to choose, you might want to interview a few more T's to see if you find one that you think is a better fit. If you were assigned this T and can't change at the moment, it might be worthwhile to see if it gets better after the evaluation sessions and continue to bring up what it is you want to work on. But also listen to your gut. If this isn't a good fit for you, you probably know it deep down. It might be worth looking to see if there are other T's out there who can help you better, or relate to you in a way that works better for you. HUGS if you want them, Kit

Summertimes we don't know what we want.
We think we know, but sometimes if we go with it a but longer, what we thought we wanted we don't and what we thought we wouldn't want, we want after all.
This work is more than surface requirements.

[maybeblue]

How many different therapists have you seen in your life? I ask because I wonder if you have had a therapist that really did feel like a good match for you. If so, when you look back at the first couple of sessions with that therapist, how does it compare to this one? It sounds like you are good at describing what you need...essentially validation. Honestly, I think that is one of the most basic skills that a therapist should have and it always surprises me when they don't, because it's just not that hard. Without it, it's very easy for the client to feel judged. The therapist may just be thinking when she says mm...but we can't read their minds, and clients who are very sensitive often feel judged, which they should know.

[sarahsweets]

Hi @SarahSweden- I think I need more clarification on what a relationally therapist is.

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

I´ve met with a new T two times now and there were several things I wanted to bring up so I asked her if I could give her a text I had written. She accepted that, I had written about what I need in a therapist and some things that upset me during our last meeting.
She read it, she more or less choose some of it and read it out loud but she barely commented on anything. She told me she doesn´t do chit-chat in connection to my opinion about how she ended our last session. But she didn´t tell me how she thought we could work on this, she didn´t validate any of my feelings and she didn´t seem to think of this as therapeutical material.

She should have validated your feelings and given some sort of feedback. But I wonder if she felt like you were telling her how to do her job? Maybe she didnt think it was something to be worked on. It sounds like you listed what you need, your feelings about what happened and maybe she accepted that and wanted to start the session another way?

We then continued with her questions as we do evaluation sessions. She asked me several questions and when I talked she just said "mm" to almost everything. When I paused, she asked another question. She didn´t comment on anything I said, she hasn´t presented herself, I don´t see anything that could be relationally oriented.

Do you mean you two are not a good fit?

At the end she wanted to give the document back to me and I was both surprised and a bit offended that she didn´t want to keep it and read it again and use it for our therapy. She did read it but such a document should be interesting to her, to look at some more and perhaps reflect upon. I had put energy into that text and showed I wanted to try to get her to understand.

This is where I disagree. You are not the therapist and you are assuming and projecting how she should feel, what she should do and how she should it. What makes you think she should find it interesting or that she should reflect on it more, maybe she wanted you to reflect on it more?

I do not know you that well but I often see threads of yours centered on your therapists. have you had alot of them or is it just the same one you have issues with?

[ArtleyWilkins]

My therapists never kept anything I wrote that I handed them. They considered my writing my own and always gave it back to me to hold onto.

[feileacan]

Sarah, have you considered maybe also working a bit on your own problems, instead of just criticising every therapist you meet? You seem to have very many expectations of what a therapist should think or how a therapist should behave and none of the therapists you have seen so far has not conformed to your expectations. Have you considered that there could be something with your expectations that would be worth looking at?

[here today]

Or, maybe, ask the therapist when you don't understand. If she has said that she is a relationally-oriented therapist, what does she mean by that? What does it mean to her? How does that affect what she tries to do to help her clients? It may not seem like what you thought you were going to get from therapy but maybe there is something useful there anyway. Or not. But what are your options if you don't give this a try?

It may be that there are some meanings and some possibilities that the two of you can come to understand together.

[cinnamon_roll]

Hi Sarah,
you're still in the early stages, right?

It seems to me like you've arrived there with a set idea what "relational psychotherapy" must look like. And now you're struggeling with your disappointment that this T doesn't seem to be what you've expected her to be.

Why not ask her about her approach of doing therapy? Why not try to find out more about what she might be doing or not doing and why? Maybe your idea of relational psychotherapy doesn't quite add up with what it really is? Which wouldn't really be this T's fault. But just something to discuss together.

I'm not sure whether it's the same or similar thing: My T practices interpersonal psychoanalysis which is very relationship-orientated. And it is not exactly feelgood or cozy, to be honest. It's very much about my ways of relating (or not relating) to other people. And T pretty often reflects on what I'm doing in that regard or not doing, to make me realize that I'm not a lonely island, but that my actions (and non-actions) pretty much always affect the people around me. Ultimately it's all about learning to relate (both to myself and to others) in more healthy ways. And it's not always pretty, the stuff that tends to come up in that context...

I've been with that T for about 18 months now. The first 12 months 1x per week, since last December twice weekly. And it's only in the last 2-3 months that I feel that we've entered some sort of relationship-level. Might be due to my personal set of problems, but it takes time. And in the beginning I was very unsure whether this was a good idea. In fact, I can remember her being pretty reserved and distant (almost blank slate-ish) in the first few sessions. I asked her about it later on, when I started seeing her twice a week. And she said that in those initial first sessions she tries to get a distinct idea of my way of relating to others. So she holds back a bit more that she would normally do, in order to find about about my style of relating without too much interference from her side.

I don't know whether this T works in a similar way. Might be worth finding out, don't you think? But maybe in a way that doesn't judge her right from the start? Because if you want her to validate your feelings and your perceptions, maybe a good starting point would be to adapt an open and non-judgmental attitude towards her and her way of doing her job?

Don't let this initial disappointment get the better of you straight away. Maybe it's worth taking a step back and trying to explore (maybe with this T) what is happening (or not happening) there in this room between the two of you.

Good Luck!

[Edit: typos]

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, we do have evaluation sessions and I understand there can´t be an established relationship from the beginning but I though see how she acts and how she responds to me. I was assigned this T as within public healthcare we never get to choose a specific T and we don´t get to know on beforehand which T we´re going to meet.

Hugs back to you.

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

I'm not sure I understand what a relational T is. I've been seeing current T for maybe 13 months and I would say I am just now getting to the point where I am considering the therapeutic relationship with her. It probably took a little less time with that with former T but still it took a while. I think it is good that you gave her the text to read but I'm sorry you didn't get more of the response that you are looking for. I am wondering if you are still in the orientation phase with this T. You mentioned evaluation sessions. I think the first couple of sessions are usually sort of orientation like where the T is trying to get a sense of you and what difficulties have you had up until this point and how to develop a treatment plan that would help you. I'm not sure that the relationship has come into play yet. But relationship between T and client is one of the important aspects in the outcome of therapy. She might not be a good fit for you. I don't remember. Were you assigned this T or are you able to choose another T? If you are able to choose, you might want to interview a few more T's to see if you find one that you think is a better fit. If you were assigned this T and can't change at the moment, it might be worthwhile to see if it gets better after the evaluation sessions and continue to bring up what it is you want to work on. But also listen to your gut. If this isn't a good fit for you, you probably know it deep down. It might be worth looking to see if there are other T's out there who can help you better, or relate to you in a way that works better for you. HUGS if you want them, Kit

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I´ve met with like four different therapists during several years and some counsellors. In Sweden, counsellors aren´t always psychotherapists but they have less qualifications.

Two of them were warm and kind and I almost immediately felt when I met with them that I liked them. One wasn´t a good match at all but I kept seeing her as she was the only one available. The forth I met with just three times as she couldn´t really offer therapy but more of brief counselling and also we didn´t match.

I think validation is the key and to not construct situations that are very different from common human interaction. To say "mm" to most things is not a dialogue and by that she do show she listens but that´s not enough. I perhaps don´t feel judged by her but more of that she thinks there should be a lot of free association and that I shouldn´t look for validation from her but more of like keep talking. And to me that´s more of a psychoanalytical way of doing therapy and I´ve been very clear about what I look for in a therapist.

Originally Posted by maybeblue

How many different therapists have you seen in your life? I ask because I wonder if you have had a therapist that really did feel like a good match for you. If so, when you look back at the first couple of sessions with that therapist, how does it compare to this one? It sounds like you are good at describing what you need...essentially validation. Honestly, I think that is one of the most basic skills that a therapist should have and it always surprises me when they don't, because it's just not that hard. Without it, it's very easy for the client to feel judged. The therapist may just be thinking when she says mm...but we can't read their minds, and clients who are very sensitive often feel judged, which they should know.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I know some T:s don´t like if the client "interferes" with their way of working but if so there´s no collaboration and I think a T needs to adapt more to the client than the other way around. I really emphasized that I know my opinions were presented early in our contact but I also pointed to the fact that I react now in the same way I will do some weeks or months further ahead.

Yes, as I feel at the moment I don´t feel we´re a good fit. Some months ago I left a T at this facility after the evaluation sessions due to similar issues as with this current T. It turns out that they seem to work under a similar protocol and they relate to me in a similar way as well.

I didn´t write that text for her to just skim through but to use as a base for our contact. I don´t mean she has to bring it up every time or read it in her spare time but I do think it was an important document that was meant for her, not something that she will mostly forget and never look at again.

Often I write several posts about the same T and it´s not that every post is about a new T.

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Hi @SarahSweden- I think I need more clarification on what a relationally therapist is.

She should have validated your feelings and given some sort of feedback. But I wonder if she felt like you were telling her how to do her job? Maybe she didnt think it was something to be worked on. It sounds like you listed what you need, your feelings about what happened and maybe she accepted that and wanted to start the session another way?

Do you mean you two are not a good fit?

This is where I disagree. You are not the therapist and you are assuming and projecting how she should feel, what she should do and how she should it. What makes you think she should find it interesting or that she should reflect on it more, maybe she wanted you to reflect on it more?

I do not know you that well but I often see threads of yours centered on your therapists. have you had alot of them or is it just the same one you have issues with?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I did bring up to her things about the relationship but she mostly listened to what I had to say and she didn´t comment much. It seems she doesn´t like to discuss her methods but want the client to mostly follow her lead. As the situation is at the moment I see more harm than good in this relationship and that´s why I consider ending the contact with this therapist.

I have two evaluation sessions more and I´ll then see what comes from them.

Originally Posted by here today

Or, maybe, ask the therapist when you don't understand. If she has said that she is a relationally-oriented therapist, what does she mean by that? What does it mean to her? How does that affect what she tries to do to help her clients? It may not seem like what you thought you were going to get from therapy but maybe there is something useful there anyway. Or not. But what are your options if you don't give this a try?

It may be that there are some meanings and some possibilities that the two of you can come to understand together.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I did ask her and tried to bring up issues and how I´d reacted to things she said and done. I've read rather a lot about therapy and I´ve also seen a relationally oriented therapist before so I think I have a rather good knowledge about it.

As you describe with your T, that it can be a difference between how she acts now during our evaluation sessions and how she´ll act later on in the therapeutic relationship might be true. I told her I understand she needs to stick to some kind of protocol and ask specifik questions as she works within public healthcare but she said that it´s only partly true.

I wait for her to take such a stance, to perhaps ask me why I question things or why I want therapy to be a certain way. But I feel like she´s rather indifferent to what I say to her and that she only wants to focus on the evaluation questions. I don´t know if she´s unsure about how to respond or if she simply doesn´t like me "interfering" with her work.

Originally Posted by cinnamon_roll

Hi Sarah,
you're still in the early stages, right?

It seems to me like you've arrived there with a set idea what "relational psychotherapy" must look like. And now you're struggeling with your disappointment that this T doesn't seem to be what you've expected her to be.

Why not ask her about her approach of doing therapy? Why not try to find out more about what she might be doing or not doing and why? Maybe your idea of relational psychotherapy doesn't quite add up with what it really is? Which wouldn't really be this T's fault. But just something to discuss together.

I'm not sure whether it's the same or similar thing: My T practices interpersonal psychoanalysis which is very relationship-orientated. And it is not exactly feelgood or cozy, to be honest. It's very much about my ways of relating (or not relating) to other people. And T pretty often reflects on what I'm doing in that regard or not doing, to make me realize that I'm not a lonely island, but that my actions (and non-actions) pretty much always affect the people around me. Ultimately it's all about learning to relate (both to myself and to others) in more healthy ways. And it's not always pretty, the stuff that tends to come up in that context...

I've been with that T for about 18 months now. The first 12 months 1x per week, since last December twice weekly. And it's only in the last 2-3 months that I feel that we've entered some sort of relationship-level. Might be due to my personal set of problems, but it takes time. And in the beginning I was very unsure whether this was a good idea. In fact, I can remember her being pretty reserved and distant (almost blank slate-ish) in the first few sessions. I asked her about it later on, when I started seeing her twice a week. And she said that in those initial first sessions she tries to get a distinct idea of my way of relating to others. So she holds back a bit more that she would normally do, in order to find about about my style of relating without too much interference from her side.

I don't know whether this T works in a similar way. Might be worth finding out, don't you think? But maybe in a way that doesn't judge her right from the start? Because if you want her to validate your feelings and your perceptions, maybe a good starting point would be to adapt an open and non-judgmental attitude towards her and her way of doing her job?

Don't let this initial disappointment get the better of you straight away. Maybe it's worth taking a step back and trying to explore (maybe with this T) what is happening (or not happening) there in this room between the two of you.

Good Luck!

[Edit: typos]

[GeekyOne]

I wonder what would happen if you stopped talking about "the relationship" and about how she operates and pushed forward into what else is going on for you.

I mean, let's face it: you've only seen her a handful of times - there's not much relationship.

And, because there is not much of a relationship, asking or expecting her to change her normal procedures and so on is just going to get her hackles up. Yes, perhaps if she were the perfect T, she could not react like that. But she's also human - and she's not the perfect T. So let's not pretend she is or should be.

So... what if you, internally, decided that she might be worth working with in spite of these other things? What if you decided to try - really try - to focus on the other work you need to do? None of this 4-6 evaluation session nonsense, you can't get far in that amount of time - give it a good six months. As she gets to know you, and your responses to things (other than her), she may well change her ways of speaking or doing.

Or she may not change. But you might find that in spite of that, she can offer you a helpful space to explore other things than her unwillingness to chit chat, or where she keeps the tissues (I know that was a previous T, but the point is the same).

Given the limitations of the public system you're in, this seems like one way to try to move forward. I have done it myself - and yes, perhaps it is not optimal, but is it really worth holding out for the perfect T, who may not even exist?

Put perfect fit aside. Do some work. Figure out if she can help you with the work. You can always leave later.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

I've read rather a lot about therapy and I´ve also seen a relationally oriented therapist before so I think I have a rather good knowledge about it.

Seeing one relationally oriented therapist and "reading rather a lot about therapy" does not make you any sort of expert. Let's get real. I think you're really standing in your own way. You are so unhappy with your life and you have said you feel hopeless that you're ever going to have the things you long for, but it seems like you aren't very willing to tolerate any discomfort in therapy. Getting validation and warm fuzzies is all well and good but the fact that not getting these things provokes such an immediate strong reaction in you makes me think it could be useful for you to learn to withstand working with someone who doesn't see it as their purpose to provide you with those things.

I know you made a post recently with something about client wants being pathologized. I'm going to be completely blunt. While I don't think it's at all pathological to have preferences like yours, I do think it's indicative of something that you respond so strongly when you don't get what you want in this area. You develop really detailed narratives about these therapists, seem to think that they are objectively wrong, and cognitive distortions run rampant (mind-reading, black and white thinking, personalization, etc. etc.).

I hope you decide to go against your inclinations and give this therapist a chance. I think right now your mind is already made up and unless you commit to yourself to actually giving it a go for real, you're just wasting your time because you're not even open to letting her be helpful to you.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I agree there's "more" than the relationship itself but I´m vigilant about how the connection feels as I saw a T for a whole year although I felt already in the beginning we weren´t a match. I don´t want to go there again just because there are so few options.

I have already presented to her what I want and need to work on as they ask for background info before you actually meet with a T. I think six months is way too much time to evaluate if a T can be helpful or not or if she might change her approach. I´ve been in that position and I let months pass, I now and then talked to that T about how I felt and hoped for a change but that didn´t come.

It´s true I can leave later but after several months they won´t offer me a new T, then it´s better to be open about what I think works and what does not from the beginning.

Originally Posted by GeekyOne

I wonder what would happen if you stopped talking about "the relationship" and about how she operates and pushed forward into what else is going on for you.

I mean, let's face it: you've only seen her a handful of times - there's not much relationship.

And, because there is not much of a relationship, asking or expecting her to change her normal procedures and so on is just going to get her hackles up. Yes, perhaps if she were the perfect T, she could not react like that. But she's also human - and she's not the perfect T. So let's not pretend she is or should be.

So... what if you, internally, decided that she might be worth working with in spite of these other things? What if you decided to try - really try - to focus on the other work you need to do? None of this 4-6 evaluation session nonsense, you can't get far in that amount of time - give it a good six months. As she gets to know you, and your responses to things (other than her), she may well change her ways of speaking or doing.

Or she may not change. But you might find that in spite of that, she can offer you a helpful space to explore other things than her unwillingness to chit chat, or where she keeps the tissues (I know that was a previous T, but the point is the same).

Given the limitations of the public system you're in, this seems like one way to try to move forward. I have done it myself - and yes, perhaps it is not optimal, but is it really worth holding out for the perfect T, who may not even exist?

Put perfect fit aside. Do some work. Figure out if she can help you with the work. You can always leave later.