In Session Today: Part IV

You might be more work than some of his other patients, but you will make him a better therapist. That's not your job of course, or why you are going to therapy. But it is something that he and his future patients get out of him working harder with you, and maybe thinking about it that way might make you feel less apologetic.

@SE I get what you're saying about the unsustainable bit. That must be hard and rather confusing. I think that comment really struck me because as someone who also has what might be considered an "extreme" trauma history, I already feel like a freak. I wouldn't appreciate my T emphasizing my different-ness from other people.

@maybeblue I get what you're saying, but I think Ts have to be careful about conveying such a message. It can come off as rather objectifying.

He did say a few times that he likes the challenge and complexity of my case, and it did make me deeply uneasy- not like a whole person, and like my long history of in some ways thriving despite it was gone or vanished. Since then his practice has grown and grown, and he is more tired/ stretched thin, so I worry what was kind of enthralling to him professionally is going to become too much even though I am still the same person/ same case. I never really included any of this life history in the way I lived, compartmentalizing it. He really wanted to work through complex defenses and open Pandora's box, and I did trust this was best. Now though, I am worried he is kind of inured to my experiences and neither of us has a discovery process animating the work of "metabolizing ". It seems to be fizzling out in the middle. I do feel a little objectified, or maybe that I was invited to take this huge risk together, with lots of lofty language like Trust me, I will be right with you. The feeling behind that sentiment were very raw and real in their time, but that time seems to be passing. The only problem is that cliche that you cant unring a bell. I would like to take back my life story .

I feel really anxious about the possibility of not seeing him this week. Just had a text exchange with him. Feel sad.

Winter really sucks.

Warning: Long!
MC today for the first time in over a month. Went back and I realized he had space heater on (I'm very sensitive to warm temperatures). I was like, "OK, the first thing I have to say is to ask you to turn off the space heater." H said, "Yeah, when I saw that was on, knew that would be the first thing she'd said." MC immediately turned it off. I said I didn't want him to be cold, but...

We all sat. I felt kinda awkward and had trouble looking at him much, though did notice he was wearing a striped, unbuttoned polo shirt (in other words, yeah, there was some chest hair showing). He asked how we were doing, I motioned to H to begin, since he'd just been to orthopedist for shoulder issues. He filled MC in on that and some work stuff.

MC turned to me, I said how I'd just been rejected (on Fri.) from one of the PhD programs I'd applied to and, based on stuff I'd read, would likely be rejected from the other one. He gave a seemingly genuine, "I'm sorry." I started crying as I talked about it, then said I didn't know why I was crying, and he said his usual, "It's OK." Then he said he didn't know if was anything like psychology PhD programs, but he wasn't accepted anywhere his first round applying. Which surprised me, because he went to an Ivy League school (and one of the best-known ones) for undergrad.

I mentioned how I'd shared the e-mail exchange I had with him early last week with H, and H said it was mostly stuff we'd discussed previously (including my concerns about T), and I said I was mainly sharing it to be transparent. Talked a bit about my concerns about my T, how I worried he couldn't handle the attachment stuff--or maybe not "couldn't handle" but "wouldn't want to handle." H said he figured people didn't get into the business if they didn't want to handle certain types of clients. I said yeah, but that he could pick and choose his clients if he wanted. And really, the groups he specialized in (for example, teens), I didn't fit into any of them. So maybe he was trying to avoid people like me? MC didn't think so. I said how he kept saying he's not psychodynamically trained, and MC is, so to ask him about certain things. I asked MC if he was trained that way, and he confirmed.

I said how I would feel like T was really understanding me, then something would happen where it just felt like he didn't. How I thought it should be obvious that I was really upset about something, but he wasn't picking up on it. H gave example of me being upset about his going out of town, and his e-mailing me to "Have a fabulous week!" I said that in the half-session I went to in response to that, T was like, "I have no idea why you're upset with me." And how that was difficult. How eventually, after 10 minutes, he noticed I was shaking and asked if I was really that anxious. I think then he understood how much it was affecting me.

I said I guess I just expect therapists, with all their training, to be good at detecting how I'm feeling. H said MC was probably better at it because I've known him much longer than T. MC agreed. He said also that people in general are probably wrong, say 25% of the time in reading how people are feeling. That T's are only somewhat better, so maybe just wrong 20% of time instead. I was like, "Oh. Maybe I expect too much" He mentioned a recent misunderstanding with his daughter, where she'd told him something, he thought she meant a certain thing and responded accordingly. She got angry with him, they had words, then she explained what she'd meant. And MC was like, "Oh, you meant that, I would have reacted completely differently if I'd realized that."

I said I knew we had other stuff to talk about. MC said, "It's like there's a 600-pound gorilla--actually more like two 300-pound gorillas in the room." I agreed. He said how the one was about H and me, and the other was more specifically about me. I said yeah, that one was a girl gorilla, and H was saying it had hair like mine.

MC said he thought the one was about whether H and I were doing well enough that we didn't really need marriage counseling. Were these sessions helpful to us anymore? I said I thought we had managed OK in the past month, and H agreed. I said there was some value to the sessions, but I didn't know if we *needed* them so much. H said that honestly, he could go either way--he was fine if we continued coming to sessions and would be fine if we stopped (so, basically up to me...)

So then MC said the other part, which was more about me, was whether we'd resolved the stuff from December (the "I love you" e-mail, the contentious phone call, MC's request that I reduce contact, and the fallout from that). He said he felt like we should make sure that's dealt with first, before going to the other part. I said I felt it had been dealt with for the most part. That I mostly felt closure about it. He asked what that meant. I said how before it was like this whole swarm of bees, but now, there may be a few still buzzing around, but mostly addressed.

I said that I thought there was a third part though, also about me. And that was about my attachment in general, how I wanted to feel OK about separating. MC said he probably should have considered that part, too, maybe as separate from the December stuff. That he wondered if I worried about separating since I wasn't feeling as secure with T. I said yes.

So we were talking about the three parts and trying to label them like parts in a trilogy. MC mentioned Indiana Jones, and H was like, "Oh, so in the second part you'll literally rip her heart out?" MC said, "Yeah, OK that was a bad choice." H: "Jaws?" MC: "But then I'd literally chew her up and spit her out." They named a couple other bad choices. Then I said, "Uh, Naked Gun?" They agreed that one would work.

So he mentioned how we'd want to make sure conflict had been dealt with, then address stuff with me and attachment, then move on to H and I stuff. I said I wondered if it needed to go in a different order, that maybe H and I stuff should come before the me stuff. MC said that made sense.

MC said he thought I was worried about separating from him while unsure about T. I agreed and said how I worried that T wouldn't deal with attachment well, how if it got stronger for me, I feared I'd get hurt. MC said, "That's exactly why I want you to keep working with him." Me: "What? But what if he can't handle it?" MC: "I want you to keep working with him to see that your fears are unfounded. That he can handle it. And that even if you do get hurt by him, you'll get through it." Me: "Oh, I see." [thinks for a second]. "OK, I know we need to stop soon, but...I just keep thinking, you're comfortable handling attachment, and I became too much for you, so how long will T last with that? I imagine his threshold would be much lower. And I'm scared I'll end up getting hurt."

MC replied, "But you didn't become too much for me." Me: "Yes I did, that's why the whole December thing happened." MC: "You weren't too much for me. You're still sitting here." Me: "Yes I was, and I'll be too much for T." MC: "I know, you worry you're too much for everyone in your life." Me: "Yeah, like here, too [points at H]." MC: "Yes, and with others." Me: "But I feel like I am. I expect too much from people."

MC: "You're not too much." Me: "But I am..." MC [looking at me more intently]: "Lonesome Tonight (using my full name), you are not too much." Me: "But...." MC [leaning forward, kinda doing his "hug from across the room thing"]: "Let me say it a different way: You're not too much." Me [really crying now]: "I..." MC: "LT, you're not too much." Me [melts into puddle because he's saying the stuff I needed to hear as a kid...]

I had been holding the tissues on my lap, but then put them in my purse after a bit. After I put the last couple in there, MC pulled out the trash can from under his desk and held it in front of me. I gathered the tissues from my purse and lap and put them in, thanking him. It's the second time he's done that, and it felt bizarrely caring (I mean, it's a trash can! But maybe it felt more symbolic, like he was giving me a place to put my tears? I dunno.)

Said we did need to wrap up. He asked if we wanted to schedule or wait. I said I would like to put something on the schedule. H said, "Maybe a couple weeks?" So we scheduled for two Mondays from now. Stood up, shook hands, MC said, "It was good to see you," and I said, looking into his eyes, "It was good to see you, too." Got pretty weepy on the car ride home (but like a good weepy, if that makes sense...)

First, I had to laugh at the chest hair thing. I've noticed it myself a time or two. I spend way too much time noticing things in the room LOL

Second, sounds like a really powerful and healing session, which is good! I envy people who can cry so easily in therapy. He sounded like he really did care, which is great, with all your recent worries with him.

Also... I hate how he says, you may get hurt but you will get through it, Like, this is my worry, on my T thinking along those lines. I've been hurt my whole life, I want this to be different... so that part would have been hard for me to hear.

Hope tomorrow with T goes well.

(((LT))) i hope you punched H for that gorilla comment! sounds like a good solid session

LC, I loved the idea of the trash as of a symbol of MC giving you a place to put your tears. He seems really on and tuned in .

in this session too, your H seems awesome- really funny and interactive. It also strikes me, as it has in the past, that triangle/ triangling helps you manage the one on one stress between you and one of the other people when it gets too intense. MC was deployed in a triangle with you and new T bc the stress ramped up; MC wasn't in play when the stress between you and new T was low overcome- able.

I learned about triangling from Dr. Peter Kramer in the book called Should You Leave? , which sounds like and advice or self help book, but is actually so full of teaching about Family Systems Therapy, attachment, and relationships .

One thing that came through was the longstanding nature and complexity of your relationship to MC. He definitely cares

My session hasn't happened yet. I emailed to let her know I'd gotten a cold the end of last week, rested all weekend and took supplements, and am mostly over it--was she okay if I came in today? She replied that honestly, she was not, that I may still be contagious and she doesn't want to get sick, so she offered something for tomorrow during a time that I can't get away. Then she said I could be on her cancellation list for Thursday, without thinking that it might be a bad day for me workwise, which it is. Even if I moved everything around, it's still just only if she has a cancellation which is not likely.

I felt this wave of hurt, even though I'd asked her about this. I guess I was hoping that I was overreacting and she was not at all concerned. It happens that she would very much not like me around in the event I carry a cold virus to her office. She works at another location with teens, and I bet anything they are not 100% cold free over there, but she would move heaven and earth for them (rightly so, but I am being petty) so it just all feels like massive rejection.

I kept emailing to ask if we could do a phone call. I finally heard back that yes, we can do that, and that she hadn't replied because she was in session--however, her earlier emails came during the beginning and middle of what would have been a session, so I am not feeling great about any of this.

This just does nothing about my fears of being naturally repulsive.

How many of you have gone to session with a cold or had a therapist who was getting over one?

i generally don’t get sick, but i’ve been in sessions w my T getting over a cold; and had a sssion where my voice was getting hoarse. i would be upset if my T wanted to cancel over a cold, but i also wouldn’t ask first

Sorry ruh roh, that sucks and is a bit over-cautionary in my view.
A few weeks ago when T and I didn't hug because one of my kids had had a stomach bug my T realised that I had perceived this as rejection even though I initiated it by saying I wouldn't hug him. His simply agreeing with that was a piece in a jigsaw of hurt.
As for a cold, that's a bit much. People get colds all the time and most clients wouldn't even be so courteous as to warn the T in advance. Sorry she didn't respond well. I hope a phone session helps you anyway.

Yeah. I definitely should not have asked. Won't make that mistake again.

And to answer your second question, I have gone to session full of cold (without warning him) and he was full of cold last week without warning me.

I've done it at least twice, and my T has done it at least a half-dozen times. She's not very good about staying home sick unless it's really bad, so I tend to follow her lead and not cancel.

Maybe your T has health concerns that make her especially vigilant about not getting sick? Or possibly she is extra spooked about the dangerous flu season? It sucks that you did the courteous thing by asking and are now feeling a bit punished for it.

As for the timing, the longer I'm with my T, the less confident I am that I know her schedule. She might have been replying during a cancelation or maybe she scheduled a morning off for personal business. I know that feeling second-rate has been a bit of a theme with your therapist, like with the fee. Would it help to talk about this with her?

I am sure she would see other people in her life. Maybe it's just clients, or certain ones in particular. fml I am not even symptomatic. I just fall within a five day period that's apparently a contagion window.

She replied during the hour before her final reply when she said she'd been in session--like 29 minutes into it. So unless it was a 30 minute session, it doesn't make sense that she said she hadn't gotten back to me about a phone call alternative because she was in session. This all happened within 30 minutes.

I can talk to her about feeling second rate, but it doesn't do any good. She'll just say she's sorry that's how I feel.

From yesterday:

This is going to be all over the place...I apologize.

The little parts were very very far forward at the start of the session, and, for a while, the connection with C was intense... but something happened 20 min from the end that threw up some sort of wall, and then none of them could come through, and it was not good. I don't know if it was C's sudden focus on a self-harm part that I'd not told him about before...or his decision to address parts directly with direct questions -- which always gives me this "no skin; being burned by a bright light" feeling.

C did give his reaction to the email (an email I sent that included a dumping of memories that I said I didn't want to talk about yet but then said parts did want to know his reaction), but it wasn't at all words for a child. He talked about the "power" of it and the "poeticness." It was lost on the littles, but I couldn't bring myself to say that. I wanted to say "that's nice, but that's all meaningless to a 6 year old..."

C wants to be able to talk to the parts directly and wants them to talk to him directly...and wants me to make it obvious when they email him.

I have forgotten most of the session, to be honest...

But I vividly remember coming out of the session and falling into gut-wrenching sobs in the parking garage, and thinking "this is how people wander off and are found wandering around aimlessly not knowing who they are or what year it is...that could be me right now...I am that close to disappearing..."

I emailed C this -- that I was sobbing in the parking garage...he'd asked who was terrified for the session to end, but I couldn't answer. It was one or both of the 6 year olds.

He hasn't responded, and I'm really just barely here right now. I went to Wegmans, got $30 of cheese and salami, came home and made myself a cheese board and a glass of wine for dinner... trying trying trying...

but it hurts, and I want to call him... I want to call him, but I wouldn't be able to let the 6 year old talk, and SHE'S who wants to call... she wants to call and sob and hear him tell her everything is going to be ok, and that he's there...

maybe I'll email him that

---
I did email him
He did respond
lots of emotions

I've gone with a cold or when getting over a cold. I just opt to not shake MC or T's hand in that case. (Well, the one time I would have shaken T's hand, because I was pretty much over the cold, but he said because I'd been coughing some, he'd rather not.) And MC has been sick and coughing all over the place, while not covering his mouth, which drove me kinda nuts. Then he would say he wasn't going to shake our hands because he's been coughing, and I wanted to be like, "Too late now! You've already spread them around the room!"

I think it's kinda ridiculous that a T wouldn't let you come when getting over a cold. Now, if you have a fever or suspected (but untested) strep throat or possible flu? Or still-active stomach bug? Yeah, I could see a T saying no to that. Or if there was some condition that weakened her immune system, but that's something I'd think she would have told you about. You were being really nice in letting her know--I suspect most clients would have just shown up...

Thanks LT. I had my phone session. She kind of wondered why I asked to begin with if she would prefer I not come in, and I said I didn't think through the risk and had probably wanted to hear that it was no big deal. It is a big deal to her, it turns out. She said she's self employed (as am I, so I don't know why she had to put that out there) and can't risk getting sick. I said if she were sick, I would show up, which points to the imbalance in the relationship. She said she wouldn't show up sick. So we went around like that for quite a while, getting to the core of it which is my feelings around being rejected and alone and, before even any of that, core issues with things growing up. Then I moved on to talk about other issues hoping the hurt would subside. It never did. In fact, she dropped a doorknob bombshell on me with the name of someone who's work I have massive issues with. So now I have that to make me wonder if any of this is even worth it. Overall, a bad day that I brought on myself. Next time I know not to ever ask someone if they would prefer I don't show up for whatever reason.

If I'm not obviously sick, I don't say anything. I am careful to cover my mouth with my elbow if I cough and I wash my hands right before a session. I also never touch my therapist, so that cuts down the danger. He has been sick before in my session, but I never caught it. It's hard to get a cold from across the room if everyone just covers their mouths if they sneeze or cough. You are more likely to get it from touching surfaces.

I bet you asking made her think you were a lot sicker than you actually are, and she might be a germaphobe. I know it is really hard, but I would try not to take it personally. I bet she would be the same with anyone who said they were sick.

Had this experience just before Christmas...text her beforehand, and she was willing to continue with the session as planned. If it's just a run of the mill cold, I don't say anything beforehand, but this was quite severe.

I'm sorry your session wasn't helpful. I think she was overreacting with the cold. She's much more likely to get one from her kids or husband.