<font color="#000088"> ok.. look... i know i have been doubting my T over and over. i know i have problems trusting him. Ugh.. i know. But how can i tell real concerns from those things?

you see... i am very concerned about the emotional stuff lately... the empathetic connection. i keep trying but i'm not feeling it.. i'm not feeling that sense of being held.

i dunno.. maybe it's me.. maybe it's part of that brokeness.. maybe it's a part of me that doesn't work right.. or a part that is unmet need that can never be soothed

it seems like such a simple thing... all i want is a direct engagment, looking intently, speaking softly, being gentle... being feeling and not being thinking ...if that makes any sense... heart vs brain i guess. i want someone to look past the outter cerebral me.. and see the feeling me.. i'm not able to step out there myself at this point.

He says he does see me.. that he does hear me. i described it like being locked in a box and yelling for someone to hear... and he says he does. He says he does.. and i hear the words, but i don't feel that he does. It's how he's saying it i think.. it's said so... thinking. Maybe i just can't hear him? He asks me to ask myself why i doubt that he can hear me.. why do i return to this over and over? He says that sometimes we arrive at the mutual conclusion that he does hear me and i am ok with it... then we go around again.

so after weeks of trying to get my point across but being hampered by my own limitations, lack of skill and denfenses.. i am wondering if this T can do what i am asking. He has hit it on occasion, but i seem unable to make him understand just what i felt was right about those.. i can't just get it out somehow... i've even tried getting close to what i said above.. and trust me, it was so very very hard to do so.

i dunno.

i adore him. i truly do. He's smart, funny and obviously caring. i think he actually does what he does because he likes to help people. He says he enjoys challenges. Boy. He got one when he got me. i fight him every tep of the way.. i don't mean to but i do. Even he has acknowledged that in a way. i told him he would find that i would resist him and he said he wouldn't find it later because he found it already oops.

i am lost. He is one of the best in the area from what i can gather. He is in the right age range for me (an important criteria).. and he is open minded and flexible about how he does things.. not boxed into vanilla CBT. He's very very honest (another important criteria) and has admitted his own feelings or short-comings. It all makes me feel i am in the right place... except for this... and i can't seem to get past this.

am i just resisting him? am i just not trusting him? am i just broken?.... or is the relationship just not right?

i'm feeling very depressed lately... deeply and dangerously depressed. i would be heart-broken to leave him, but i'd be so confused and disoriented if it's just me. Six of one and a half a dozen of the other, as my mother would say. (just means 50/50)

i'm so deeply sad. </font>

[Perna]

You're not broken! But shifting perception can be so hard; it's like making a bed when you're in it :-) If you can't/won't tell him exactly what you wants, he can't read your mind so how's he supposed to know? His job isn't necessarily to give you what you "want", either. So even if you did tell him, he wouldn't necessarily follow through on it.

His job is to help you, in his way, become the best gerber that you can; he's more a cheerleader than a player on the field though. As you're playing the game of Life (hate that metaphor :-) when you get tackled, his job isn't to rush out and make you feel better "physically" but to help you learn how to get up, "shake it off" evaluate what happened and how to adjust for the next play.

Gerber, you describe so many positive things about your T. Give yourself time. Trust is a very difficult thing to establish. It took me such a long time to feel a connection with my T-- and to this day it still comes and goes. I think that in your therapy, you are still in the "building the relationship" phase-- this can be a really long phase and can last years for some. The important thing to note, however, is that work is getting done. You cannot trust and connect with someone iif you haven't even built a relationship.... and I believe that is what you are working on now.

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
i want someone to look past the outter cerebral me.. and see the feeling me.

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This comment maybe be real off base but here it is anyway.

Do you have different modes of operations? Do you think that maybe your T is responding in a way that matches the mode of
operation you bring to therapy?

I'm just thinking out loud here so if it sounds stupid maybe it is :-)

I'm finding that there are actually two version of me--at least that I am aware of: the "feeling me" and the "problem solver me". The "feeling me" is open and receptive to my feelings, is the one that wants intimacy and a connection on an emotional level. The "feeling me" doesn't come out much..usually only when I am alone at 3 AM.

When I go to therapy I am usually in problem solver mode. I'm direct but tend to filter or withhold thoughts that occur during the session. I'm kind of all business. I quickly dismiss stuff as irrelevant non-sense and am focused less on understanding underlying motives and more on 'what do I do about it'. I think my T responds to this by listening and offering perspectives and solution ideas. In essence responding in a way that matches my mode of operation. For me when I am in problem-solver mode it is like my feelings and emotions are turnoff some how. She has asked me on several occasions how something makes me feel or how I felt when?.. I can't answer these questions when I am in problem-solver mode. I only seem to be able to describe my actions or how I responded in the situation--not what I was feeling or thinking. It's like I'm in a 3rd person mode.

I'm sure my T knows that somewhere in my head is the "feeling me" that is influencing my behavior. I've written to her a few times at 3AM while in my "feeling me" mode. When she asks me questions in therapy about what I wrote I think she is trying to interact with me on that level. But I have trouble because-- I'm in a different mode. Later when I'm back in "feeling me" mode I desperately want to respond to her questions but its too late. I wish I could some how bring the "feeling me" to therapy once in a while but I haven't been able to do it yet.

What I am trying to say is maybe your T is responding to you in a way that matches your mode of operation in therapy. Maybe a few times he was able to briefly connect to the other side of you that is hidden in therapy and you were able to receive the signal. Could that be what your saying when you mention "He has hit it on occasion." Maybe through more trial and error the two of you will figure out how to make this connection more often and amplify it.

Sorry if what I'm saying doesn't make sense or totally doesn't apply.

i'll try to remember everything...

mckell.. you described what i have said to my T many times. Feeling me vs thinking me. i cannot bring feeling me out for him. She's in here banging on the walls crying out and no one can hear. i leave messages at 3am.. literally. Left one last night. will leave one again today.

he is responding to that mode.. absolutely.. and i can't blame him. What i can't seem to get across is that if *he* switched modes it would force me to switch as well. i'm certain of it.. i can't force it, but he could easily. That is what i am begging for because i don't know how to do it myself and my feeling side is withered and battered.. that side desperately needs attention.

Perna.. do you see what i mean above? i know he isn't a player exactly.. i see him less like a cheerleader though.. more like the medics than run out. i need him to see.. i need him to feel that broken leg, not give me play strategies (how in god's name did we end up with sports analogies? i hate sports..oh well)

pink.. you're right. i am always feeling pressed for time, because i still haven't shaken this fear of him kicking me out... but he even said one day that we hadn't been together that long.. that this sometimes takes a long time to build. On one level i can grasp that, but i have a severe problem...

i can't post about the issue itself.. only in chat. i can't risk being found here. It would cause potential risk for me and definite pain for another. Some of you know about it. i'm sorry for being cryptic.

thing is... this issue... it's a now thing. It's here now.. not later... it's not waiting for me to build a relationship with T. That's a big problem... i need him and i can't let myself need him yet. i need support so bad. i know he can't fix me.. i just need tenderness so bad.. i can't just tell him that, and you're all right, he can't read my mind. i really am broken.

inside right now i wish i was dead. i would take physical pain over this any day. i hurt so bad.

i was saying to T the other day how i wish to god i could cry and let some of this emotional pressure off... but having a meltdown in the produce aisle was not what i had in mind.

i had to hurry through the store and make it to my car. i bit my lip so hard to forget the pain inside. It was all the xmas stuff... it was everywhere... on the speakers too. My first xmas. It makes me feel like throwing up or throwing myself from the bridge nearby. i can't do this. T can't help.. not this.. he can't be here at 3am. What could he do anyway? You're right.. he can't fix me. He can't fix the situation. He can't make it stop.

oh god... how i hurt.

[sunrise]

hi gerber, you've said before that you have had those special moments with your T on occasion, the ones of connectedness you are now looking for. During these special times, does he do the talk softly be gentle thing that you are looking for? If so, then that is a good sign that he can give you exactly what you are looking for. Can you tell him you really valued those times and wish you could have those with him more frequently? If you can't tell him outloud, could you slip him a note? I think he can't know what you need unless you tell him. If he hasn't ever done the talk gentle thing with you, then what did he do when you felt those moments of being emotionally held? Maybe the way he did it then is how he would do it in the future, and you could ask specifically for that? (Like maybe the talk gentle thing is just not his style but he can provide the holding in this other way that is more "him".)

There was a time I wanted more empathy and "holding" one session, and the way I told my T was to tell him that today I just wanted him to be my therapist. Maybe that was not the most direct statement in the book, but he really got the message! Maybe if you are unable to be direct, you can use the "code" that you guys have worked out between you two to ask for what you want.

Have you told him you are feeling depressed right now? When I tell my T that, I get extra care. I hope you can share this with him, especially the part about you think he cannot help. Maybe he can and will step up to the plate! Or maybe he will recommend a change in direction to get you the support you need. I hope you can trust him enough to tell him how much you are hurting. Hang in there.

he does.. and he said to me one day that if he had done it before then we could do it again. we have had very blunt discussions.. but i am unable to be completely clear.. my fault, not his.

i just left him a sobbing, blubbering message. i don't know when the last time was that i had such an intense meltdown. i don't think i made a lot of sense.. i did ask him to call me in the morning.. and i do remember saying that i really had no one i could call but him and that i desperately needed support.

[tulips30]

gerber, I think sunrise is on to something. I know exactly what you are saying. I had a similar situation and still to a degree feel that way. Sunrise suggested a "code". Explain to him again the 2 parts and that sometimes you need the emotional him. Give him an idea of what that is in your mind. For example: a softer voice etc. Ask him if it would help to have a word you could use occasionally when you needed this from him. That way, he understands what you're looking for and you don't have to tell him each time. I can't imagine a good therapist ignoring this request or idea. It's definately worth a try. He sounds wonderful and worth working towards building a strong therapy relationship. There is defiantely a reason why people say that therapy is "work". It is and the payoff sometimes takes alot longer than we expect . At least that has been my experience.

the meltdown i had was not about this issue.. but it kinda forces it now. i begged last night on my voicemail... told him i need support. The meltdown was related to xmas.. and the very sad time it will be this year.

i was sobbing and begging for it to stop.

if he can't get there during this, then there isn't any hope i don't think. i couldn't possibly leave him now, i am far too needy for that.. i would have to wait for this dreadful season to be over.

xmas used to be my favourite time of the year

i didn't expect this.. never occurred to me that being out among the xmas stuff would hit me like this. Now i can plan shopping trips around this.. i think everyone is getting gift cards this year. i cant handle gift shopping.

no tree no decorations no celebration... my parents have said they will come here so i won't be totally alone... but i'm not sure that is better. They wont like or understand the lack of xmas during xmas.

today i feel like i have been disembowelled... part of me died, and it died a painful death. can i ever recovery? will i ever have a normal life?