[Lrad123]

My T recently stopped email responses. I’ve posted about this multiple times, but in brief, he responded for about a year, then abruptly stopped them, saying that he felt he was supporting something unhealthy by replying to my emails. He will still read my emails, but will no longer reply. I’m relieved that he’ll still read them (and it’s clear to me that he reads them in detail) because I can process things better and express myself more clearly via email. Not having that would make me feel disabled in a way. I believe his motives were good, but I’m still not sure I agree that the best solution was to stop responding to all emails. That feels very black & white to me. When we discussed this last week he compared emails to hugs which I think is interesting because I’ve never wanted to ask for a hug, but realize that can be a big deal for some people based on what I’ve read on this forum. His point was that both hugs and email responses from T don’t offer a real solution to the problem. They give temporary, but not long term relief. He’s psychodynamic, so maybe it has more to do with that school of thought. I still feel a loss at not having a response to ANY emails (except scheduling emails) so I’m just trying to figure out how to process this. I imagine it would feel the same as being told that T won’t give you a hug if you want one. There must be some kinds of emails that would be ok for him to respond to, I’m just not sure how he’d decide. He said he doesn’t want to be put in the position of deciding which emails are good enough to merit a response and which aren’t. I probably can’t change his mind, and don’t want to pressure him to do something he doesn’t want to do, but I am trying to figure out how to process this so I can move past it. Wondering what people’s thoughts are on this? Has anyone else struggled with email responses or hugs from T? I guess they are similar in that both provide some sort of reassurance. I get that I’m supposed to be able to do it on my own, but I’m pretty much an expert at that already, and it felt nice to get responses and not feel so on my own for a change and I’m mourning that loss.

[Lemoncake]

The reason I've fallen out with R at the moment is pretty much very similar- he stopped replying to my emails, without giving me notification after previously allowing me to have that. Maybe it is a psychodynamic thing- he doesn't believe in hugs either. Very paraphrased but someone told me previously that it was to increase the intensity in sessions.

Things I previously did include writing out messages in a notebook and then writing out his reply too, but also if I had an old email I'd mark it as unread and flag it so that it would appear at the top of my inbox and look new.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Lemoncake

The reason I've fallen out with R at the moment is pretty much very similar- he stopped replying to my emails, without giving me notification after previously allowing me to have that. Maybe it is a psychodynamic thing- he doesn't believe in hugs either. Very paraphrased but someone told me previously that it was to increase the intensity in sessions.

Things I previously did include writing out messages in a notebook and then writing out his reply too, but also if I had an old email I'd mark it as unread and flag it so that it would appear at the top of my inbox and look new.

Oh those are very creative ways to deal with lack of email responses. I guess I should try to look at some of his old ones. I’ve also tried looking at his webpage to see if that’s comforting. Sort of feels pathetic though.

Regarding increasing the intensity in session, you may be right. He said something about how our relationship was to distant via email and he wanted to bring it in the room, which I agree with logically. I just wouldn’t mind a little email response too.

[LabRat27]

For me, if it's possible to get the response I want then I'll keep trying for it.
If hugs were given under special circumstances, I'd keep trying to make those circumstances happen instead of focusing on trying to get better.

Intermittent reinforcement keeps the behavior continuing a lot longer than continuous reinforcement. Getting the response you want but only rarely and unpredictably reinforces a behavior a lot more than getting it every time or not at all. That's why people get addicted to gambling.
That's why I don't want my T making exceptions. Obviously some flexibility is necessary and it varies by person and situation, but it's something I warned my T about early on because I know myself.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by LabRat27

For me, if it's possible to get the response I want then I'll keep trying for it.
If hugs were given under special circumstances, I'd keep trying to make those circumstances happen instead of focusing on trying to get better.

Intermittent reinforcement keeps the behavior continuing a lot longer than continuous reinforcement. Getting the response you want but only rarely and unpredictably reinforces a behavior a lot more than getting it every time or not at all. That's why people get addicted to gambling.
That's why I don't want my T making exceptions. Obviously some flexibility is necessary and it varies by person and situation, but it's something I warned my T about early on because I know myself.

Interesting. Maybe I’m fooling myself, but I’m assuming my desire for an occasional email response isn’t pathologic and won’t result in being addicted. In fact, I think the fact that I assume my T may be thinking that way is sort of what is offending me (no offense meant towards you though!).

[RaineD]

It's hard to say because I don't know what kinds of things you emailed him about, how often you emailed, and what sorts of responses you received from him. I think these are all relevant. My therapist usually responded to my emails, but I rarely emailed him. The entire 17 months I saw him, I think I only emailed him five times. And once was for scheduling. There was on email he didn't respond to, probably because he didn't think there was really anything he could say to that. And I didn't really expect him to respond either so it didn't bother me when he didn't.

The same goes for texts. He usually responded to my texts, but I rarely texted except for scheduling. And when I sent non-scheduling texts, I can usually predict whether he would respond.

I don't like it when people have blanket rules, such as never responding to emails or never allowing hugs. I don't believe that hugs and emails are things that don't offer real solutions to problems. Hugs are a means for connection. They are not meant to solve problems. For me, hugs with my T reflected the nature and closeness of our relationship. In the first year of therapy, I think we only hugged three times, and only the last one felt real. But, at some point, we started hugging at the end of every session, and that was also the point when we became very close in our relationship. The hugs did not solve any problems. They were not meant to. They were a nice thing that both reflected our closeness and made us feel closer. People hug because hugging feels good. Not because it solves problems.

As for emails, like I said, I only ever sent five. (I'm counting the initial emails only, not when I responded to his response with "thanks" or "that works, I'll see you then.") One was for scheduling. One was a one-sentence expression of pure despair that really didn't require a response. Two I sent right after ruptures, when I felt like I needed to explain myself or talk about the rupture and couldn't wait until the next session. Did his response solve problems? I would say yes. The first of the two emails I sent right before Thanksgiving last year, and his response meant I didn't have to spend all of Thanksgiving miserable. The second email I sent after an even worse rupture, and, in that email, I asked him to help me stop therapy. That was the closest I ever came to quitting. In his response, he basically asked me to stay. That email exchange was the turning point in our relationship. So did it solve a problem? I would say yes. It would have been horribly cruel of him to just not respond to that email and make me wait until the next session to talk about it in person.

The fourth email, in case you're curious, was a poem I sent him while drunk. This was after I knew he was dying. The poem was quite embarrassing, and his response was that I needed to tell him those things in person, which was fair. I don't think that response solved any problems, but it wasn't meant to. It was just a normal human thing to do.

So I rarely sent him frivolous emails. Occasionally, I would text him something that could perhaps be described as frivolous. Usually it's just a bid for connection, and he usually responded to them although not always. Did his responses solve problems? Probably not. It's true they only made me feel better temporarily, but it's just a nice thing to do, imo. Also, I rarely texted him. Had I texted him all the time, I'm sure he would have stopped responding for the most part. I don't think he would have stopped responding altogether. But he probably would just not respond most of the time. That's my guess.

I often go back and read our email and text exchanges, and I'm actually surprised by how infrequently I contacted him between sessions. I really wish I texted/emailed him more often so I'd have more to read now. But I was always so well behaved. I kind of regret it now, but it was probably the right thing to do at the time.

I don't know if my long-winded response answers your question. This is just my take on the therapeutic relationship. I agree with your T that the relationship is the therapy. But I also think people should behave normally in this relationship, as long as it's not overboard. For example, if you have a friend you don't see often and they occasionally text you something frivolous, you will most likely respond if you want to keep said friendship going, right? It's just a bid for connection, and it's normal. Obviously, if they texted you 20 times a day every day, you might stop responding as much because you have other things to do.

I don't believe in creating weird, arbitrary bright-line rules in therapy, such as never responding, never hugging, etc. I think it forcibly makes the relationship too artificial. Anyway, just my two cents.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by RaineD

It's hard to say because I don't know what kinds of things you emailed him about, how often you emailed, and what sorts of responses you received from him. I think these are all relevant. My therapist usually responded to my emails, but I rarely emailed him. The entire 17 months I saw him, I think I only emailed him five times. And once was for scheduling. There was on email he didn't respond to, probably because he didn't think there was really anything he could say to that. And I didn't really expect him to respond either so it didn't bother me when he didn't.

The same goes for texts. He usually responded to my texts, but I rarely texted except for scheduling. And when I sent non-scheduling texts, I can usually predict whether he would respond.

I don't like it when people have blanket rules, such as never responding to emails or never allowing hugs. I don't believe that hugs and emails are things that don't offer real solutions to problems. Hugs are a means for connection. They are not meant to solve problems. For me, hugs with my T reflected the nature and closeness of our relationship. In the first year of therapy, I think we only hugged three times, and only the last one felt real. But, at some point, we started hugging at the end of every session, and that was also the point when we became very close in our relationship. The hugs did not solve any problems. They were not meant to. They were a nice thing that both reflected our closeness and made us feel closer. People hug because hugging feels good. Not because it solves problems.

As for emails, like I said, I only ever sent five. (I'm counting the initial emails only, not when I responded to his response with "thanks" or "that works, I'll see you then.") One was for scheduling. One was a one-sentence expression of pure despair that really didn't require a response. Two I sent right after ruptures, when I felt like I needed to explain myself or talk about the rupture and couldn't wait until the next session. Did his response solve problems? I would say yes. The first of the two emails I sent right before Thanksgiving last year, and his response meant I didn't have to spend all of Thanksgiving miserable. The second email I sent after an even worse rupture, and, in that email, I asked him to help me stop therapy. That was the closest I ever came to quitting. In his response, he basically asked me to stay. That email exchange was the turning point in our relationship. So did it solve a problem? I would say yes. It would have been horribly cruel of him to just not respond to that email and make me wait until the next session to talk about it in person.

The fourth email, in case you're curious, was a poem I sent him while drunk. This was after I knew he was dying. The poem was quite embarrassing, and his response was that I needed to tell him those things in person, which was fair. I don't think that response solved any problems, but it wasn't meant to. It was just a normal human thing to do.

So I rarely sent him frivolous emails. Occasionally, I would text him something that could perhaps be described as frivolous. Usually it's just a bid for connection, and he usually responded to them although not always. Did his responses solve problems? Probably not. It's true they only made me feel better temporarily, but it's just a nice thing to do, imo. Also, I rarely texted him. Had I texted him all the time, I'm sure he would have stopped responding for the most part. I don't think he would have stopped responding altogether. But he probably would just not respond most of the time. That's my guess.

I often go back and read our email and text exchanges, and I'm actually surprised by how infrequently I contacted him between sessions. I really wish I texted/emailed him more often so I'd have more to read now. But I was always so well behaved. I kind of regret it now, but it was probably the right thing to do at the time.

I don't know if my long-winded response answers your question. This is just my take on the therapeutic relationship. I agree with your T that the relationship is the therapy. But I also think people should behave normally in this relationship, as long as it's not overboard. For example, if you have a friend you don't see often and they occasionally text you something frivolous, you will most likely respond if you want to keep said friendship going, right? It's just a bid for connection, and it's normal. Obviously, if they texted you 20 times a day every day, you might stop responding as much because you have other things to do.

I don't believe in creating weird, arbitrary bright-line rules in therapy, such as never responding, never hugging, etc. I think it forcibly makes the relationship too artificial. Anyway, just my two cents.

This is really helpful. I think it’s the “blanket rule” that bothers me because it kind of feels like the way you’d treat a young child who has broken a rule, and I have no interest in being treated that way. The other thing that makes sense to me is what you said about emails being a bid for connection. That was definitely my purpose at least some of the time, and now I don’t have that as an option which is, I think, the part that stings the most now. Lack of connection is probably part of what brought me to therapy in the first place, so not having this is a downer. And asking for it now would just feel shameful now that he’s said no. So, I guess I need to figure this out. I emailed more than you, anywhere from 0-3x/week and got the message from him that it wasn’t excessive or I would most definitely have backed off.

[piggy momma]

I would absolutely love a hug from my T. But I don’t think he’d go for it. He just doesn’t strike me as a hugger.

As for emailing, I used to email my T up to a dozen times a day, easily. Plus text. He’s never asked me not to, and if something is important he will reply, but I certainly don’t expect him to reply to everything. I’ve tried to cut back on emailing him - I ask myself if this can wait until our next appt. But I too need that connection. I get it. It’s hard.

[Waterloo12345]

Are you wanting a substantive response? I've had a similar email issue and I get assured she does read them but her response is a 1/2 liner, picking up v briefly something in the email and then referring to discussing it in the next session. I've sort of a bet with myself when she'll run out ideas to say the exact same thing in different ways but she's not failed me yet!

Also I kinda promised to bring up in session what ever I wrote to keep the intensity in the sessions

Could this be an option?

[stopdog]

I wrote the woman but never wanted her to respond. I never found her in person responses to be useful, email would have been a disaster. I liked sending stuff away from me, but told her not to respond.
I tried to keep a 5 ft personal space ring from her at all times -hugs were right out.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

Are you wanting a substantive response? I've had a similar email issue and I get assured she does read them but her response is a 1/2 liner, picking up v briefly something in the email and then referring to discussing it in the next session. I've sort of a bet with myself when she'll run out ideas to say the exact same thing in different ways but she's not failed me yet!

Also I kinda promised to bring up in session what ever I wrote to keep the intensity in the sessions

Could this be an option?

I like the way this has been handled by you and your T. I do not need a substantive response, but getting no response is also a bummer. I think I’d be ok with a one sentence response, but I think my T would ask what the purpose of the response would be, and I’m not exactly sure, except that it’s nice to be acknowledged. Do you feel like the brief response you get from your T is satisfying? Or is it equivalent to getting no response?

I also like the idea of making myself bring up in session what I’ve said in an email. This has historically been tough for me, but I think it’s the right thing to do.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I like the way this has been handled by you and your T. I do not need a substantive response, but getting no response is also a bummer. I think I’d be ok with a one sentence response, but I think my T would ask what the purpose of the response would be, and I’m not exactly sure, except that it’s nice to be acknowledged. Do you feel like the brief response you get from your T is satisfying? Or is it equivalent to getting no response?

I also like the idea of making myself bring up in session what I’ve said in an email. This has historically been tough for me, but I think it’s the right thing to do.

I would prefer a substantive response but it was a process of give/take that led to this approach so we both compromised which rationally I can get on board with.

Also I deep down eventually agreed and understood amd saw the sense in what she was saying about therapy not taking place in the room, there being all this stuff that is 'brought' to her but not really, and also that I was hiding behind email as it was easier to say things without being seen. So cause of that I accepted the short responses.

I prefer some response than none cause part of the reason I send them is to tug on the thread that binds us and asks - you still there? Have you abandoned me yet? And her reply says no, I haven't, I told you I won't and I'll keep on telling you so in this way till you don't need to ask anymore.

Also I prefer being able to do it and some response than none cause it became to me a symbol of unconditional acceptance and love, or care as she would say, and I want that, I need that.

And once she gave it me (ie permission to write and that she would read and respond briefly) I didn't really use it (as much). All I needed was the gift of it.

But I was able to talk and explain to the young me who needed this that unconditional love doesn't mean things that are bad for me or whatever I want or unreasonable things, and because I understood the reasoning for the brief responses the young me was able to accept it- it seemed 'fair' in that way children can accept.

Sometimes the purpose is to talk myself down from spiralling. So I have a plan or things to do if go into emotional flashback or are struggling or SI and writing her is pretty much the last on the list before get thee to the doctors.

In this case it is the sharing of the pain, the having someone to bear witness and stand by me, the knowing that there is someone there and if it is bad enough she'll call or something that is the purpose of the email.

Linked to this I sometimes 'give' her a difficult issue to hold for me in the week, or keep for me so it doesn't make me unhappy - like putting in a box but I prefer to give it into her care. It then allows me to maximise functionality in the week.

And sometimes the purpose is to act as an aide memoire cause I always forget things, though she likes this much less so I rarely use it for this purpose.

So many different purposes all of which we examined to death it seemed in therapy.

And then when I don't email her we talk about that and why not!! Did I find a better or worse way of coping, Am I pissed off with her (transference/projection) etc etc.

But it was good as the emailing was a way of really teasing out my subconsious needs, fears etc

I think both hugs and email responses respresent control in the therapy relationship.

I think it’s important for therapists to be upfront from the beginning on what their boundaries are and hold that consistency.

If there are any changes to boundaries I feel like they should be discussed and mutually agreed upon.

I think the potential to damage a client by suddenly withholding touch or eliminating out of session contact can be enormous. It can make a client feel like something is wrong with them or that the therapist is trying to control or punish the client.

[MoxieDoxie]

Mine went from responding to not responding. It sucks. I feel like scorned child who’s favorite toy was taken away. I’m a grown women and try so hard to ignore that and not email him about anything but I do and each time I feel hurt when he does not respond.

I rather him respond and hug me with words than to physically touch me.

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

Mine went from responding to not responding. It sucks. I feel like scorned child who’s favorite toy was taken away. I’m a grown women and try so hard to ignore that and not email him about anything but I do and each time I feel hurt when he does not respond.

I rather him respond and hug me with words than to physically touch me.

I’m really sorry.

It pains me to see grown adults put into a position of ‘child’ by the ‘process’.

I struggle to see how dynamics like this are helpful.

Especially when we are the paying clients, not the reverse.

[Lrad123]

I think the process of working out the changes together is what’s important and that’s where I am now. I actually agree that in my case maybe his email responses were enabling something and preventing growth, but it still hurts. In my case, I was particularly hurt that the decision was made without consulting me. It felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me and that I was treated disrespectfully. We talked about it last week and I actually felt partially, but not completely better about it. So I’m still thinking about what bothers me and how I’d like the process to go.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I think the process of working out the changes together is what’s important and that’s where I am now. I actually agree that in my case maybe his email responses were enabling something and preventing growth, but it still hurts. In my case, I was particularly hurt that the decision was made without consulting me. It felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me and that I was treated disrespectfully. We talked about it last week and I actually felt partially, but not completely better about it. So I’m still thinking about what bothers me and how I’d like the process to go.

I agree with this. The process of working out and agreeing the changes together has been invaluable for me.

For example for me is that I learnt to think about and vocalise my needs. And I fear conflict so I had a successful example of overcoming that to build on in my real life. I had an opportunity to re-parent the child within that was scared of change cause change had always been (felt or preceived to be) frightening and bad.

It's a process that is fraught with opportunity to go pear shaped but, for me at least, it's working at this time.

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I think the process of working out the changes together is what’s important and that’s where I am now. I actually agree that in my case maybe his email responses were enabling something and preventing growth, but it still hurts. In my case, I was particularly hurt that the decision was made without consulting me. It felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me and that I was treated disrespectfully. We talked about it last week and I actually felt partially, but not completely better about it. So I’m still thinking about what bothers me and how I’d like the process to go.

So you agree that these email exchanges were perhaps not good for you. Do you realistically think that you would have reached that conclusion when he would have consulted you? Do you think that if the T had made a proposal to stop responding to emails and you would have had your say about whether to execute it or not then you would have agreed to it?

But you definitely should keep talking to him about it as long as it bothers you and let him explain his reasoning over and over until it either starts fully making sense or it becomes clear that it does not fully make sense and thus changing the rules again could be in order (who knows in which ever ways).

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

Mine went from responding to not responding. It sucks. I feel like scorned child who’s favorite toy was taken away. I’m a grown women and try so hard to ignore that and not email him about anything but I do and each time I feel hurt when he does not respond.

I rather him respond and hug me with words than to physically touch me.

But why do you email him? Why not talk about stuff in session?

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors

I’m really sorry.

It pains me to see grown adults put into a position of ‘child’ by the ‘process’.

I struggle to see how dynamics like this are helpful.

Especially when we are the paying clients, not the reverse.

But this grown adult puts themselves in the 'child' position by emailing vulnerable stuff in between the session? The grown adult would go and address stuff in the session, no?

I'm not saying that emailing or not emailing is wrong but just pointing out that if one party for some reason needs to act as a child then why complain that the other party responds as a parent?

That's exactly how transferences are playing out. Transference relationship is not the same as the therapy relationship. Email exchanges happen in the transference relationship while paying for services happens in the therapy relationship

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by feileacan

But why do you email him? Why not talk about stuff in session?

It is content about session. Processing stuff plus I have at skill of forgetting almost all of the session (Im better now) so I will go home and jot down feelings, thoughts, revelations. I can articulate my feelings and thoughts better when I am not so activated and at home. I am always on edge in therapy and have a hard time articulating things.

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

It is content about session. Processing stuff plus I have at skill of forgetting almost all of the session (Im better now) so I will go home and jot down feelings, thoughts, revelations. I can articulate my feelings and thoughts better when I am not so activated and at home. I am always on edge in therapy and have a hard time articulating things.

So you expect the therapy to be conducted over the email?

The way I see it, the goal should not be to reveal thoughts, feelings and revelations at all cost. If they cannot be discussed in session for what ever reason (for instance, because you are too activated) then the real issue is to deal with that reason. The particular thoughts, feelings and revelations only become important after the issue that disables discussing them in session has been resolved and when they can be talked about in session.

The only things that you can really work on are those things that are accessible and workable in session. Everything else is just noise.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by feileacan

So you agree that these email exchanges were perhaps not good for you. Do you realistically think that you would have reached that conclusion when he would have consulted you? Do you think that if the T had made a proposal to stop responding to emails and you would have had your say about whether to execute it or not then you would have agreed to it?

But you definitely should keep talking to him about it as long as it bothers you and let him explain his reasoning over and over until it either starts fully making sense or it becomes clear that it does not fully make sense and thus changing the rules again could be in order (who knows in which ever ways).

I feel like it’s possible that some of the email exchanges were not good for me, but not all of them. I’m just not sure how to decide which ones or which types of emails he should respond to and which not. I think that if he had talked to me about it first, I still would have been upset about it, but would have respected him for it more in the long run. I’m aware there was no easy way for him to do this.

I plan to keep talking about all this. I thought I had my act together, but sent an ultimatum email last night basically indirectly saying if he doesn’t respond today, I won’t show up on Wednesday. I’m not sure what sort of craziness overtook me when I wrote that, but it can’t end well. Ugh.

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I plan to keep talking about all this. I thought I had my act together, but sent an ultimatum email last night basically indirectly saying if he doesn’t respond today, I won’t show up on Wednesday. I’m not sure what sort of craziness overtook me when I wrote that, but it can’t end well. Ugh.

Nah, there's no reason to feel bad about it. This whole email issue seems to reflect something quite important and thus it seems like a very valuable work.

All of us have our crazy parts and you can take it as an opportunity to learn to know such parts of yours.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I feel like it’s possible that some of the email exchanges were not good for me, but not all of them. I’m just not sure how to decide which ones or which types of emails he should respond to and which not. I think that if he had talked to me about it first, I still would have been upset about it, but would have respected him for it more in the long run. I’m aware there was no easy way for him to do this.

I plan to keep talking about all this. I thought I had my act together, but sent an ultimatum email last night basically indirectly saying if he doesn’t respond today, I won’t show up on Wednesday. I’m not sure what sort of craziness overtook me when I wrote that, but it can’t end well. Ugh.

Ugh indeed. Since you are thinking more clearly now and see the craziness can you send another email confirming you'll be there and then talk about why you sent it at session? This may stop escalation which as you say can't end well.