In Session Today: Part VI

junkDNA · Feb 02, 2019, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echos Myron redux

After a few despairing emails back and forth yesterday, today we Skyped and it went okay, I think. At the start I said I felt very bad after last session. He said what kind of bad? I said I told you, shame. He asked did it feel like it was all about what happened in the session or did it feel historical? I said "I don't know. Well, actually even if I do know, I don't care. The purpose of this for me is to work out whether I want to come back. I don't want to get into those feelings now".

Then we were both very quiet. To the point where at times I was anxious he would think the screen had frozen. I was starting to think this was pointless.

I told him something that had happened in a group I attended after our session (transferencey stuff with an older man) and he didn't respond. I said "You're very quiet, T". He said he was aware that the purpose of this is for me to work out whether I want to come back, so he's torn about his response, but he had been thinking about how I go through a similar process with him, and he isn't sure whether we've gotten to the bottom of what that's all about. Then he said "not that we need to know".

I asked him about what he had said last session (I've briefly summarised what happened last session in a quote box above because I'm aware I haven't written about it. I haven't felt up to it). He said "Okay, if you want to go there..." I said "what does that mean?" he said "Just that it feels like thin ice" he went to continue and I said "You have choice, you have agency, you don't have to go there". He said "I feel like you are saying it would help you make a choice about whether to come back".

He went on to say that he had been anxious about the appropriateness of what he was saying (that he loves me) and had added the last bit to be really clear about what he was trying to express. Not, as I imagined, that he thought that either I thought he was in love with me, or that I wanted him to be. I was quiet and he said "now you're really quiet". I said "It's a lot to take in and process, but if that was thin ice, you navigated it well". He said "good".

He said he thought of our ongoing metaphor about being roped together climbing a mountain. He said he felt like I had fallen over, he had really steady footing and wanted to help me; I was getting my knife out to cut the rope and he was saying "No, don't cut the rope, I've got you". I liked that analogy. I sat quiet, taking it all in. I said I was wondering what the benefits are to continuing and what the benefits are to cutting the rope. He said it depends how I would feel about continuing alone. I said "Are you telling me there's no train back down the mountain?"He said "It's quite an amusing thought that we are fighting our way through this ice and snow, yet there's a train station round the corner".

I said I wasn't 100% sure I was ever not going to come on Wednesday. He said "You convinced me". I said I wasn't lying to you. I wish I hadn't said that because now you think I was being manipulative. He said he didn't think that at all. That it's how I was feeling at the time and I expressed that. He said he thinks he heard that I am coming on Wednesday and he is pleased about that.

My Amazon Echo randomly started speaking. I told him we must have said something that sounded like "Alexa". He looked a bit sheepish and I said "sorry I forgot you are scared of AI". He said "Not scared, just wary.". Then my cat went through the cat flap and he said "What's that? Is Alexa getting the hoover out?" I said "No! it's the cat. The cat flap is right behind me."

We came up to the hour. He asked if I was okay to end there. I said yes. We were quiet. I said it feels weird without the hug. He said He doesn't think there's a way to do that virtually. I found a little heart button and I pressed it and it sent a flashing heart to him. He sent one back to me. We said see you on Wednesday and hung up.

that's cute.. my t sends me squirrels and tumbleweed

Elio · Feb 04, 2019, 01:12 PM

Today's book:

A reminder that just being is an act of being brave, whatever you decide to do.

DP_2017 · Feb 04, 2019, 05:37 PM

So saw a different T today and he was TERRIBLE. First, I got there 15 min early to fill out papers etc, and he is 10 min late getting me. Then he lets me out 10 min early... so I only got 40 min but it says 1 hour sessions on the website.

Anyway... he had this massive stack of papers and wanted to ask a billion dumb questions about me and my past etc. At one point he asked if I smoked or did drugs I said no and he gave me a odd look and then was asking about drinking, I said, I've probably had 2 drinks in my whole life and they were nasty. He gave another look and then was like "That's odd. most people in their teens and 20s really experiment with all this" then he asked about my dating history and I hate this question, so I said none and he chuckled and was like "No smoking, drugs or dates and really no drinking? At your age?" I thought it was seriously RUDE

This dude had a slow talk, really took ages to ask things and I realized that even though I don't want chummy/friendly, I want at least some understanding of my situation. This guy didn't hardly ask **** about it.... and he was annoyed I didn't tell him anything personal about T and asked if things were ever sexual. I said no and he's like good because that's reportable.

Then he said "So just very damaging and terrible at his job, this guy sounds like a jerk" I was so pissed off. I'm not here to get my T judged by asses or to report him. I love the man, with all my heart. I have no malice for him.

Then he said "So what have you done to get over it?" Umm excuse me?? GET OVER IT!?! At that point, I realized why grief/loss is not listed on his specialties, he has no damn idea how to manage those things.

I had explained twice that I wanted to know nothing about him and he told me he had cats and that he grew up in indiana, I was so damn pissed. I wanted to walk out but figured I better stay and get some of my money's worth. He seemed very stuck on the idea of me not being able to remember my childhood. Like ok, who cares? I'm not here for that.

He said something about how he hoped he would see me again and to set something up on the way out, I walked out quickly and set up nothing LOL.

He just was really off putting, too slow talking and very judgemental. I can't deal with someone who is gonna keep harping on T.

At least the other guy I saw last week, was fairly understanding, even saying he thinks if we ever saw each other before the 2 yrs, it would be like nothing changed. So he has a lot of BLAH things about him (like distance and 50 min sessions) but he's def better than this guy

So now I'm debating on guy 1, continuing to look for more or just forgetting it all together. I have my surgery next Thur and the Dr today told me it would be 2 weeks max of no driving etc so not too much of a delay for no sessions.

**oh and I had mentioned him writing a goodbye letter because he was going on and on about how this sounds like it was all so damaging, no, only the aftermath is... anyway so he was like "What are the contents of that letter?" umm none of your business man I don't know LOL

Echos Myron redux · Feb 04, 2019, 05:41 PM

Sorry DP, that's awful. It reminds me how lucky I was to meet T after I left T1. I hope you manage to find somebody helpful and sensitive to deal with the loss you're experiencing.

Anne2.0 · Feb 04, 2019, 06:12 PM

I have interviewed some terrible t's (for me, at least) where I felt the entire 45 minutes or whatever was like torture to talk to these people. It doesn't sound like there is anything worth going back for to this one. Sorry.

DP_2017 · Feb 04, 2019, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I have interviewed some terrible t's (for me, at least) where I felt the entire 45 minutes or whatever was like torture to talk to these people. It doesn't sound like there is anything worth going back for to this one. Sorry.

Yes I kept looking at the clock and the door, It was so boring. I got nothing out of it, I wasn't able to talk about anything or be emotional at all.

I found another local company that has 5 people who specialize in grief, 3 women and 2 men, I called them and left a message, so we will see. I only have 4 days due to **** weather, before my surgery, that I could do therapy, but thankfully I wont miss more than 2 weeks of sessions after.

Elio · Feb 06, 2019, 09:35 AM

Sat on the couch in yesterday's session. It took most the session before she finally understood what was going on for me inside. She seemed to keep interjecting possible reasons/interpretations into my explanations. It was like she couldn't slow down to match my speed. She kept talking granted half of what she said was to try to encourage me that it was all ok, that we could talk about whatever and that we didn't have to talk about it.

There is an inner fight going on right now. One part thinks it's ready to tell its stories and other part(s) are not ready for those stories to be told. So I will say one or 2 sentences about something and then shut up and I am fighting with myself to stay physically in the room and mental/emotionally with the thoughts/feelings rather than switching to a much safer topic or intellectualizing it.

Somehow I need her to show me she is with me, interested in what I am saying, engaged in the process, encouraging and supportive while at the same time give me the space to not feel pressured, tricked, ... I need her to somehow give me the quietness in energy that will let me know that everything will be ok and it's ok that these are tough things for me to talk about even though they are not "big deal" things.

DP_2017 · Feb 06, 2019, 09:40 AM

Elio, you sound like me in T. I struggle so much with sharing and trust etc.

I hope you are able to feel more free and open with her at some point and it helps you

LostOnTheTrail · Feb 06, 2019, 11:49 AM

I relate to your last paragraph too, @Elio. Thank you.

Echos Myron redux · Feb 06, 2019, 12:08 PM

The session was good, I don't want to get into it all but we ironed out what had happened and I felt good about it. There was one thing I'd quite like some (kind) feedback on:

At the end of the session I got some money together and handed it to him. I said, this is for today and the Skype session on Friday.

T: (whilst holding the money as if his hand was frozen in the position he took it) We hadn't agreed you would pay for that?

Me: wasn't it a session?

T: It started out as a conversation to see if you wanted to come back. You paying for sessions when I've said something that has hurt you is a tricky area. I don't mind you paying me or not paying me, but it warrants some attention.

Me: And here we are at the end of the session with no time to talk about it.

T: Sorry I knew I should have brought it up earlier.

We both looked at each other a bit like neither of us knew what to do next. Him still holding the money in the same position.

Me: How about I take the money back for now, and we can discuss it properly next week?

T: Yes that sounds like a good idea (hands me the money back).

So I genuinely don't know what I want to do or say about it next session. Any thoughts?

unaluna · Feb 06, 2019, 12:18 PM

Echoes - my t did not accept payment for extra sessions (like daily for a week) during our major rupture.

Out There · Feb 06, 2019, 12:28 PM

My thoughts are your T genuinely cares for you Echos ( and I'm finding that slightly triggering , but it's my stuff and it's good for me I think ). I feel your next session could be very productive if it's handled well ( and I hope it will be ) there's probably some very deep feelings in there. I so liked your T's analogy about being roped together climbing a mountain. My T is very stable for me too , there have been times I've wanted to cut the rope though. I imagine these feelings are quite difficult and strange for you. Hugs.

SlumberKitty · Feb 06, 2019, 12:34 PM

Echos, it sounds like a very caring thing for your T to do. I'm glad you will be able to discuss it more. HUGS Kit

JaneTennison1 · Feb 06, 2019, 01:13 PM

I think it's a very nice gesture. I think I read somewhere that a red flag in therapy is when you have to keep paying for multiple extra sessions to fix what happened before.

I dont mean ruptures just if it is an ongoing pattern where he says something semi unkind that causes you to panic and then spend your money to "fix" what your t did. This seems more like he accidentally triggered something and was willing to work to fix it rather than lose you as a client.

I think as a one off it could be acceptable. I insist on paying t every time we have a call. One week she said as the call had been short (2 or 3 mins) and was a question about something that happened in t, she viewed it as an extn and there was no charge
I thought that was a thoughtful thing to do and she has clearly put some thought into what she felt was appropriate. So hear him out and see what you feel comfortable with.

ElectricManatee · Feb 06, 2019, 01:35 PM

Echoes, I think it's worth talking it through with him to see how you both feel about it. He's a pretty solid guy, so I don't see red flags either way. My T doesn't charge me for outside contact, and occasionally our calls have been lengthy (like half-session length or more). Over the weekend she realized she had completely misinterpreted something that happened between us, and she called me to make it right before our session the next day. (I think it was a totally forehead-slapping moment for her.) So it doesn't seem weird or odd to me if he is okay with not asking for or accepting payment for the Skype call, but it kind of depends on what feels right to you.

Echos Myron redux · Feb 06, 2019, 02:39 PM

Thanks everyone, that's reassuring. My only reservation is that I will feel less comfortable asking for an extra session in similar circumstances in future if I think T is giving up his time for free. I am concerned will feel less okay to ask for what I need if I'm not giving anything in return. Or especially if I am unclear about what the boundaries are.

ElectricManatee · Feb 06, 2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echos Myron redux

Thanks everyone, that's reassuring. My only reservation is that I will feel less comfortable asking for an extra session in similar circumstances in future if I think T is giving up his time for free. I am concerned will feel less okay to ask for what I need if I'm not giving anything in return. Or especially if I am unclear about what the boundaries are.

Grist for the mill, my friend.

JaneTennison1 · Feb 06, 2019, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echos Myron redux

Thanks everyone, that's reassuring. My only reservation is that I will feel less comfortable asking for an extra session in similar circumstances in future if I think T is giving up his time for free. I am concerned will feel less okay to ask for what I need if I'm not giving anything in return. Or especially if I am unclear about what the boundaries are.

There is no harm in saying that although you will accept it this time as that was his intention, you have every expectation of paying for extra sessions going forward.

Lrad123 · Feb 06, 2019, 05:16 PM

I had sent my therapist a brief email on Monday saying it would be nice if he could send me a response saying he was looking forward to talking to me on Wednesday. He used to do this in the past. He said the email made him smile. As I’ve mentioned before, he no longer responds to emails, but repeatedly tells me that he looks forward to my emails and that they are welcome. So I knew he would not reply, but I sent it anyway and I told him that it doesn’t feel good to make myself vulnerable and then be met with silence. T said that that brings the feelings up and then the goal is to discuss them together in person, not via email. So I guess that makes sense. I have a feeling we will continue this conversation about emails every week for a long time and he seems open to it, so that’s good.

I had sent him a second email yesterday saying that I occasionally look up other therapists and imagine what it would be like to see them. I imagine them being perfect and understanding me right away. He replied that he perceived that email as my response to his non-response to my first email, saying that when we feel hurt we often try to hurt the person who hurt us. I suppose that’s possible although that wasn’t my conscious intention.

When I got to my car I realized I had left my water bottle in his office. I’m seeing him again tomorrow morning so I’ll just get it then. Because of his style of therapy I wonder if he’ll place meaning on that - like I unconsciously left my water bottle there so he’d continue to think of me after our session. I obviously didn’t leave it on purpose, but I do like the idea of him thinking of me outside our session.

susannahsays · Feb 06, 2019, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I obviously didn’t leave it on purpose, but I do like the idea of him thinking of me outside our session.

Or did you?

Feb 06, 2019, 07:49 PM

If a therapist is human, all clients will cross their mind sometime out of session

LostOnTheTrail · Feb 07, 2019, 08:05 AM

Today’s session ended up going in a different direction than expected. R and I sat down, and she asked how I had been.
‘I feel as though I have only just understood that it was deliberate, and I don’t know how to deal with that.’
‘Did that come out of last session?’
‘Yes. I envy people who can express anger well. You asked me last week to describe anger…’
‘Yes.’
‘And I realised afterwards that I was describing my ideal form of anger. I want to be able to control it.’
‘They saw the pain I was in, and wanted some of that for themselves, or wanted to add to it. That is not friendship.’
‘That is not friendship.’
‘I trusted them and they…I hate this word…abused that trust. They turned me into a doormat.’
‘You became a doormat. I have just heard you say that you did not deserve this. There is a lot of power in what you are saying today. Do you feel that?’
R remarked that she was thinking about when we first met, and how I recounted the events without any emotion. There was a timeline, and these things happened, but I didn’t feel anything. Now I am feeling, and that is scary.
‘I feel like the language I am using is a shield to prevent me from feeling, in the same way as the timeline was a shield.’
R asked whether I felt like I could shout at her… ‘Well, not at me, but if that would help you feel better.’
‘I couldn’t do that.’
‘That is very strong – is that because you are concerned that I would take it personally, or because you don’t want others to have to see you angry?’
‘Language is all I have. Language is beautiful, and should not be weaponised, and they even managed to weaponise ‘She knows you worry.’’
‘I’ve read some of your work. You use language so beautifully in your poetry…are you concerned that expressing this anger will turn you into somebody you’re not?’
‘Yes.’
‘You know how much I hate making comparisons.’
‘Yes.’
‘Well…even in the…I can ****ing use the word if I want to…’
‘You tell them!’
‘Even in the nightmare of Chris’ illness, there were many good, wonderful, cherished experiences. This feels like freefall. With this, there is nothing to hold on to. Everything I could grab on to would rip me to shreds.’
I continued. ‘The right words in this situation feel wrong in my mouth.’
‘That is very powerful. The right words in this situation feel wrong in your mouth. Are they swear words?’
‘Yes. If I were to pass them in the street, I would use them’
‘But otherwise, they feel uncomfortable in your mouth? Is there a block because you don’t want other people to see you angry?’
‘Yes, but if it’s toxic in the air, what is it doing to me?’

DP_2017 · Feb 07, 2019, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Client xx

If a therapist is human, all clients will cross their mind sometime out of session

Mine basically said this in one of our last sessions and while I don't disagree, I mean, sometimes from time to time, I think of people I didn't even like from 10 years or so ago, I don't believe he cares about me anymore... I dont think random thoughts equal care.

Lrad123 · Feb 07, 2019, 09:57 AM

He didn’t say anything about the water bottle I had left there yesterday, but it was sitting the same spot where I left it. I wonder if he put it there or if it stayed there through all of his sessions yesterday afternoon. We had our usual awkward silence at the beginning where he just waits, expressionless, for me to start. It’s really quite impressive how he can do that. I eventually spoke a bit about some family things, then I asked if he had a hard time getting going at 7:00 a.m. This was only my 2nd 7 a.m. session and I said it feels quite early for me and there were only 3 cars in the huge lot outside (usually it’s full) and it was dark and snowy outside. I told him I actually know which car is his because it was the only one with the snow scraped off the windshield and he laughed. He said he wonders if I’m wondering if he’s fully present for me which I wasn’t consciously thinking, at least not in a judgemental way.

We talked about his upcoming vacation and how I felt stupid for even bringing it up, but I know I start to feel distant after about 4 days so I imagine 2 weeks might feel even more that way and I felt foolish and ashamed about having those feelings. He talked about how it is human nature to have needs from other people and that feeling vulnerable is a good thing. I said some vulnerable thoughts are probably good and others not so much. He said it sounded like I had a rule book and he wondered which vulnerable feelings were not ok. After some prompting I said, “caring about some guy I pay to see once or twice a week.” He seemed fine with that, but said he suspects he is not “just some guy” to which I replied, “that sounds kind of arrogant.” I eventually said I feel ashamed about wondering if he’d check his email while on vacation and wanted to know if he’d send me one quick email reply while in vacation. I actually held out my hand and told him not to respond because I felt ashamed about asking and I’m pretty sure his answer would be no anyway, but I said I deserve credit for bringing this up in person rather than email. It was almost the end of session and he basically said sending an email reply is reassuring in the moment, but it doesn’t last very long. I tried to argue that it feels nice and ties me over till our next session. He seemed to say that I’d just want more, which was true in the past, but I think I’ve changed quite a bit and I don’t think that would be the case now. I think it makes sense for him to consider a simple one-line email to me while on vacation, but I doubt he will. We left it that we’ll talk more about it again next week.

Feb 07, 2019, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Mine basically said this in one of our last sessions and while I don't disagree, I mean, sometimes from time to time, I think of people I didn't even like from 10 years or so ago, I don't believe he cares about me anymore... I dont think random thoughts equal care.

You are right, that doesn't equate caring thoughts necessarily....

But I would be surprised if your therapist didn't have any.

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In Session Today: Part VI

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