Couch 225: 2+2=5, Sheeple!

LonesomeTonight · Mar 03, 2021, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

My psychiatrist got involved in the mess between my T and me. He told her his side and then I told her mine. I was shocked that she would say this bc propriety and professionalism and all that, but she actually agreed with me that he’s overstepping here. She says that people should be allowed to bring into therapy what they want to bring. And all his nonsense about it being unethical to avoid this topic bc I had SI after breaking up with a BF in the past is just that: nonsense. She thinks he’s afraid. She’s going to talk to him about it. And he really trusts and respects her (she is very experienced and has a very prestigious position in a very big and prestigious hospital system) so maybe he’ll listen.

In the meantime, T has left me several voicemails. None of them say anything especially new or different.

(For thise who missed the beginning of the saga, my T had been insisting that I talk to him about my sexual and intimate life with my BF; when I refused to say more than I was comfortable with, he said he wouldn’t treat me anymore unless I started talking about it.)

I know y’all think I should kick him to the curb. The problem is that I feel attached to him. And he knows me and my nonsense backwards and forwards. Also, frankly, I’m moving across the country in four months and it’d be a pain in the butt to find a therapist for four months until I move and can find someone else there.

I'm glad your p-doc has gotten involved. Maybe she can knock some sense into him? I do wonder if it's that he's afraid, but that doesn't make how he's acting toward you OK.

And I understand your wanting to stay with him. Attachment is a powerful force. Plus the move. And God knows, I stuck with my T at times that others have said that I shouldn't have. I'm ultimately glad that I did (well for now at least!), but there were definitely some painful points in there. And it can be so hard to tell what direction things will go in.

I hope you can work it out and have a good ending with him. I hope your p-doc talks to him soon.

Lemoncake · Mar 03, 2021, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

My psychiatrist got involved in the mess between my T and me. He told her his side and then I told her mine. I was shocked that she would say this bc propriety and professionalism and all that, but she actually agreed with me that he’s overstepping here. She says that people should be allowed to bring into therapy what they want to bring. And all his nonsense about it being unethical to avoid this topic bc I had SI after breaking up with a BF in the past is just that: nonsense. She thinks he’s afraid. She’s going to talk to him about it. And he really trusts and respects her (she is very experienced and has a very prestigious position in a very big and prestigious hospital system) so maybe he’ll listen.

In the meantime, T has left me several voicemails. None of them say anything especially new or different.

(For thise who missed the beginning of the saga, my T had been insisting that I talk to him about my sexual and intimate life with my BF; when I refused to say more than I was comfortable with, he said he wouldn’t treat me anymore unless I started talking about it.)

I know y’all think I should kick him to the curb. The problem is that I feel attached to him. And he knows me and my nonsense backwards and forwards. Also, frankly, I’m moving across the country in four months and it’d be a pain in the butt to find a therapist for four months until I move and can find someone else there.

I was super attached to R. There have been moments when I've missed him, but now almost one month on stopping therapy actually feels liberating. I felt like it was over in august, but I hung on and kept on hoping that it would get better.

Do you feel like your T really does understand? If you were to sum up the past few months with either a positive or a negative sign, which would it be?

You're always allowed to leave relationships, that no longer work and you don't lose any of the growth you have gained by seeing this T. In the same way would you keep seeing a urologist when you really needed a cardiologist? I also believe that you're only ready for something when you're ready for it. So I understand if you do want to stick with him for a bit longer.

SlumberKitty · Mar 03, 2021, 04:25 PM

I've decided I'm not mad at T anymore. The anger has passed. She said what she said and there's no taking it back but likely next session we'll just move forward like nothing happened. If I were a more mature person I would tell her I was angry with her and why and then we could discuss it. But I don't think I'm that mature. Not that I think our relationship would break down or something but there's a fear in me about telling people that I am or have been angry with them. It's always been "unsafe" in my experience, especially my experiences as a child. I know this would be the perfect opportunity to correct some of that programming from childhood, but like I said, I don't think I'm that mature. I don't know if I will bring any of it up to T. At least I didn't have a crisis over this. I kept it together. I didn't fall apart. I survived being angry. I didn't implode. Some useful stuff there. Shame we won't be discussing it in therapy.

unaluna · Mar 03, 2021, 04:35 PM

Lemon, interesting that your choices were urologist vs cardiologist. Thats why i love you, my dear. That would probably solve sooooo many relationship problems!

My advice to chihiro is, Leap and the net will appear. Take advantage of this opportunity with your t. What are you protecting?

chihirochild · Mar 03, 2021, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unaluna

Lemon, interesting that your choices were urologist vs cardiologist. Thats why i love you, my dear. That would probably solve sooooo many relationship problems!

My advice to chihiro is, Leap and the net will appear. Take advantage of this opportunity with your t. What are you protecting?

What do you mean, una?

unaluna · Mar 03, 2021, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

What do you mean, una?

I dont get why all the women saying, you dont have to talk about it if you dont want to, your t is just being a guy, poo on him, girls need to stick together, we have a secret.

I was never one of the girls, so i dont get that viewpoint. I was always an outsider. What do you give up by talking about these things to him?

My other viewpoint, about taking advantage of the opportunity, is that you wont always have a t with this history, this insight, this willingness and ability to explore these issues with you. Dont throw away your shot, right?

Also - uro vs cardio - that was strictly a physio joke.

ArtieTheSequal · Mar 03, 2021, 05:58 PM

H went grocery shopping after his vaccine and arrived back home safe and sound not long after I said he wasn't back yet, of course. haha. He got the Moderna one.

atisketatasket · Mar 03, 2021, 06:03 PM

Una—We’re not saying he’s just being a guy. We’re saying he has a habit of violating chihiro’s boundaries, to the extent now that a *professional colleague* thinks he’s over the line.

I mean, LT’s therapist is also not my cup of tea (sorry, LT), but I don’t think he’s ever done anything this persistently disrespectful of LT as a person and a client that I recall.

It has nothing to do with being one of the girls. I’m not one of the girls, either, IMO. I’m just anti-jackass.

By the way, leap and the net will appear could also apply to *leaving* the therapist.

And yes, LT, the B word rhymes with witch.

Lemoncake · 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unaluna

Lemon, interesting that your choices were urologist vs cardiologist. Thats why i love you, my dear. That would probably solve sooooo many relationship problems!

My advice to chihiro is, Leap and the net will appear. Take advantage of this opportunity with your t. What are you protecting?

I love you too.

Urology cause I have a lot of shame with anything to do with sex and cardio because I watched a clip from the movie Anastasia today where she meets her grandmother again, I thought "I have a broken heart."

It is only with the heart that one can see rightly anyway.

Quote:

I dont get why all the women saying, you dont have to talk about it if you dont want to, your t is just being a guy, poo on him, girls need to stick together, we have a secret.

I was never one of the girls, so i dont get that viewpoint. I was always an outsider. What do you give up by talking about these things to him?

My other viewpoint, about taking advantage of the opportunity, is that you wont always have a t with this history, this insight, this willingness and ability to explore these issues with you. Dont throw away your shot, right?

I don't think I view it as a secret per se, but I see being forced into doing something you don't want to do and that makes me uncomfortable. It would be about respect and not taking things (information) by force. I talk to my brother about my periods, but that's because I feel comfortable enough to do so. He will also have female patients , but I wouldn't be able to do that with another male doctor.

SlumberKitty · Mar 03, 2021, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemoncake

It is only with the heart that one can see rightly anyway.

What a nice sentiment Lemoncake.

LonesomeTonight · 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Una—We’re not saying he’s just being a guy. We’re saying he has a habit of violating chihiro’s boundaries, to the extent now that a *professional colleague* thinks he’s over the line.

I mean, LT’s therapist is also not my cup of tea (sorry, LT), but I don’t think he’s ever done anything this persistently disrespectful of LT as a person and a client that I recall.

It has nothing to do with being one of the girls. I’m not one of the girls, either, IMO. I’m just anti-jackass.

By the way, leap and the net will appear could also apply to *leaving* the therapist.

And yes, LT, the B word rhymes with witch.

Agreed on what you said about Chihiro's T. It's not like she's running away from him to avoid some truth. It's that he's pushing/violating the boundaries.

I was unclear on whether Una's comment on leap and net meant staying with or leaving her T.

I'm not offended that Dr. T isn't your cup of tea--I imagine he wouldn't be for a lot of people. We work well together now, but it's been a bumpy road getting here. And he's done/said some things that have really hurt me. But like you said, he's never been persistently disrespectful or pushed boundaries anywhere near to the point that it made me uncomfortable. He generally respects what I want to (and don't want to) talk about. I could never see him saying we couldn't work together if I wouldn't talk about a particular topic, for example.

Thanks for clarifying about the B-word (I contemplated another word, but it seemed really weird in the context).

SlumberKitty · Mar 03, 2021, 06:19 PM

I called my Mom to see what was for dinner to decide whether or not I should eat a banana for a snack. Lol! My Mom was like why are you calling me a half hour before you get off of work? Lol!

stopdog · Mar 03, 2021, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unaluna

I dont get why all the women saying, you dont have to talk about it if you dont want to, your t is just being a guy, poo on him, girls need to stick together, we have a secret.

I was never one of the girls, so i dont get that viewpoint. I was always an outsider. What do you give up by talking about these things to him?

My other viewpoint, about taking advantage of the opportunity, is that you wont always have a t with this history, this insight, this willingness and ability to explore these issues with you. Dont throw away your shot, right?

Also - uro vs cardio - that was strictly a physio joke.

It is not because he is a man -it is because he is an asshole. No client has to talk to any therapist about anything they don't want no matter what. The client doesn't have to justify it or explain it.

Lemoncake · Mar 03, 2021, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

What a nice sentiment Lemoncake.

I stole it from the little prince.

I also like : " Have courage and be kind" from the movie Cinderella.

ArtieTheSequal · Mar 03, 2021, 06:39 PM

I'm attending another webinar thing in about 2 hours, this one's free it's with Robert Moss and is about archetypes and dreams. I love hearing him speak and would love to attend one of his in-person dream workshops someday once covid allows him to do that again. He does them all over the world, so if I got really adventurous I might even travel for one! But online is great for now. And free is even better.

atisketatasket · Mar 03, 2021, 08:39 PM

Does anyone think I need to mail a replacement check off to Info asap? Because she seems to think that. Even though our next appointment is Tuesday, so whether I mail it or whether I bring it, she gets it around the same time.

And **** this. Stopdog’s right. Cash means the responsibility is hers as soon as I pay, not arguably still mine. It’s cash going forward. (Bonus: no paper trail.)

I think I paid No. 3 in cash once—I had forgotten my checkbook and her credit card thing charged a fee. She had no problem with it.

stopdog · Mar 03, 2021, 09:02 PM

I do not think you need to mail the check. I would take it (or cash) at the next appointment

LonesomeTonight · Mar 03, 2021, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Does anyone think I need to mail a replacement check off to Info asap? Because she seems to think that. Even though our next appointment is Tuesday, so whether I mail it or whether I bring it, she gets it around the same time.

And **** this. Stopdog’s right. Cash means the responsibility is hers as soon as I pay, not arguably still mine. It’s cash going forward. (Bonus: no paper trail.)

I think I paid No. 3 in cash once—I had forgotten my checkbook and her credit card thing charged a fee. She had no problem with it.

I say just bring it to the session. The way the USPS is right now, she'll likely get it sooner than by mail. To me, if she's the one who lost it, it shouldn't be on you to rush out to the mail box or post office. (She did acknowledge that she received it, but just lost it, right?)

The only concern with cash is that she could claim you didn't pay her. I guess the same could happen with a check, but if she cashed/deposited it, you'd have proof.

I suppose I think of a credit card fee just part of the cost of doing business in today's world. I don't feel bad paying it at the grocery store, for example (yes, they likely have a volume discount, but still).

atisketatasket · Mar 03, 2021, 09:12 PM

Yeah, she knows she got the check. And I do think she’s honest enough not to try to claim I didn’t give her the cash. Plus I can always insist she sign a receipt if I have to.

I avoid fees like the plague. Also I don’t think I have ever knowingly paid one on a credit card payment unless I’ve asked for cashback.

ETA: geez, avoiding something like the plague sounds weird these days.

LonesomeTonight · Mar 03, 2021, 09:19 PM

Oh, with the credit card fee, I meant that Dr. T pays it, not me. I pay him the same amount whatever method I use. But the credit cards charge a small fee (like a couple percent) to process the payment.

I agree that avoiding something like the plague sounds weird now. There was something I said the other day that seemed inappropriate in pandemic times, but now I forget what it was.

atisketatasket · Mar 03, 2021, 09:32 PM

Oh, I see. No. 3 had it so the fee was passed on to the client. I agree it’s the cost of a business doing business.

I wrote Info and told her as nicely as I could how I felt about the losing things and her card, as well as we are now doing cash and she’ll get it Tuesday. So that’ll be fun. Picking on a new widow, a fresh low for me.

NP_Complete · Mar 03, 2021, 11:08 PM

My therapist uses Square, which does charge a fee per transaction, like 3% or something like that. That's part of his business expenses IMO. It's HIPAA compliant. I used to pay every session, when he would scan my card with a dongle he'd connect to his phone, but since the pandemic he sends me an invoice weekly via email and I pay online. Not a hassle at all.

Lemoncake · Mar 04, 2021, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Oh, I see. No. 3 had it so the fee was passed on to the client. I agree it’s the cost of a business doing business.

I wrote Info and told her as nicely as I could how I felt about the losing things and her card, as well as we are now doing cash and she’ll get it Tuesday. So that’ll be fun. Picking on a new widow, a fresh low for me.

I don't see it as picking on her. Just offering another payment method that works better for you, as she keeps losing the checks. It would have been the same if this issue cropped up months before.

ChickenNoodleSoup · Mar 04, 2021, 07:34 AM

This discussion just made me realize that the US still uses checks... I remember those things from the 90s, being on vacation with my parents and them trying to cash in the check somewhere.

I agree with all the others, going with cash is probably the best option. And I also don't see it as picking on her. Checks are a huge hassle, you have to write them and if she loses them you have to cancel the first one and write a new one. Cash you usually just have on hand. And there's no way to cancel anything, so if she loses it, that's on her. This might even give her an incentive to pay better attention to where she puts her money...It's just being practical and finding a better solution that works without having to fill out new paperwork all the time.

atisketatasket · Mar 04, 2021, 09:18 AM

I think cash is not so common here when a therapist doesn’t take insurance because out of pocket fees are so high. Info is $175/hour, for instance.

There’s no chance of my insurance reimbursing me, so cash is okay in that regard too.

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