[ScarletPimpernel]

*Trigger*

Have you ever talked to your T about sui? Has it helped you? Did you learn anything?

L and I have started the conversation. It was emotionally intense, but good. I feel like I'm learning what it's like from the other side. I have so many questions for her. She's been very honest and mostly open. Which is good because my experience is that any conversation about this with others makes them quiet me, brush me off, or overreact. L hasn't done that to me. I do worry that I'm coming across as nosey, but really it's just curiosity and wanting to understand. I have valid points for sui, but I'd like valid point for not sui. I feel like if I understood, if/when I have a sui episode, I'll have something to hold onto to fight my thoughts.

So I'm just curious about any of your experiences and questions.

[CharlieStarDust]

I have. There was a time where we’d talk about it for weeks on end. My T was great. She was very validating, expressed the appropriate amount of concern, that at the time seemed genuine. We talked in depth about pros and cons and she challenged lots of my thinking patterns. It felt good (in hindsight), as people in my life didn’t let express those ideas.

[LonesomeTonight]

I have talked to my T about it some--you're referring more to ideation here, right? (I've seen SUI used to mean a couple different things.) At one point, I felt like he wasn't taking me that seriously, like he never thought I would do anything. He said that he does take it seriously (but never felt I was at risk for acting on it). And that he understands how painful it can be for me to have those thoughts. It helped to hear him say that part. He also said it seemed like I tended to tell him after the fact, like "I had these thoughts yesterday" rather than when I'm actively thinking about it. I feel like they're more likely to come up at a time when I'm not in session, and I'm hesitant to share them in an email because I don't want it to seem like I expect him to reply right away or for him to misinterpret that they're just ideation.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I'm not sure what the other meanings are of SI/sui. SI, from what I understood is suicidal ideation, and sui just means suicide? If I'm mixing the two up, I apologize.

But yes, I'm mostly referring to ideation. I'm also interested in L's experience with sui. I'm curious if she's experienced anyone who has and how it's affected her. I'm curious that if I did, how would that affect her. I'm curious about her thoughts about it. I just want to understand how it will affect someone.

[ArtleyWilkins]

My therapist and I were always able to speak pretty frankly about suicide. It was my default "coping" mechanism which really wasn't about coping, but more about an inability and (honestly for me) unwillingness to cope.

I reached a place where I took suicide completely off the table as an option. In a period of a year, I lost two friends to suicide and my sister to cancer. The personal devastation of those deaths, and witnessing the devastation to others also affected by those deaths, made it glaringly clear to me that I never want to willfully inflict that devastation on my family and friends. I realized I never want to do that to my loved ones. I had to find a better way.

Three days ago I helped my husband make the decision to not go on life support, and I held his hands as he ran out of breath. We are deeply saddened and our lives will never, ever, be the same without his presence in our lives. If his body could have healed, he would have stayed because the relationships and promise of future in those relationships was always most important to him despite the constant pain he lived with for 35 years. But this time, he really didn't have any choices left. His body gave out.

Again, as I watch and live the devastation of that loss, I have absolutely no doubt that I will always choose life until, like my husband, my body reaches its time to go.

[SlumberKitty]

Yes, I talked to former T a lot about suicide and suicidal idealation. She held a lot for me of those thoughts in the frame. It was comforting to be able to express the desire to die. But it was also terribly frightening. She never moved to have me hospitalized. She probably should have in retrospect a few times at least. But she trusted me that I wouldn't act. I've acted twice and lived to tell about it. Once with her once with current maybe soon to be ex T.


Former T helped me see the things I have to live for and the people and animals (like my kitties) who are counting on me to be there. We talked a lot about my nieces and nephews and how they are more likely to commit suicide if they have a close family member commit suicide and I didn't want that legacy for them. Occasionally I still get suicidal. But it doesn't last as long or go as deep, at least it hasn't. When it comes then I know what to do. To think of these people and these animals that mean the world to me and then to picture myself not there for them.


Suicide used to be my default coping mechanism as Artley said. But I had to get to a point where it just isn't an option. former T helped me do that.


HUGS Kit

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

I'm not sure what the other meanings are of SI/sui. SI, from what I understood is suicidal ideation, and sui just means suicide? If I'm mixing the two up, I apologize.

But yes, I'm mostly referring to ideation. I'm also interested in L's experience with sui. I'm curious if she's experienced anyone who has and how it's affected her. I'm curious that if I did, how would that affect her. I'm curious about her thoughts about it. I just want to understand how it will affect someone.

Are you looking for her to say yes it would bother her as a way of not feeling Sui? So that it proces she cares and you have a reason not to?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

I'm not sure what the other meanings are of SI/sui. SI, from what I understood is suicidal ideation, and sui just means suicide? If I'm mixing the two up, I apologize.

But yes, I'm mostly referring to ideation. I'm also interested in L's experience with sui. I'm curious if she's experienced anyone who has and how it's affected her. I'm curious that if I did, how would that affect her. I'm curious about her thoughts about it. I just want to understand how it will affect someone.

I think I've seen SUI stand for both, so I just wanted to clarify.


So I can further answer your question now that I know. I have asked Dr. T if he's lost any clients to SUI, and he said he has lost a few (he's been practicing close to 20 years). Well, with one or two of those, he said it wasn't clear on whether it was an accidental or intentional OD. In one case, his client hadn't even ever told him that he used heroin. So it was particularly difficult for him.


He wasn't specifically talking about SUI in this case, but once he said to me "If you were to die tomorrow, I'd be very affected." I think I was trying to figure out if I was just a job to him (was a couple years ago).

Just know that if you ask L if she's ever lost any clients, she may not be willing to answer. I wasn't really expecting Dr. T to, but he did. There was an article or blog post by a therapist I read about how they're affected if a client dies by SUI--it was rather moving. I'll see if I can locate it later.

[daisydid]

It’s a pretty large portion of my work actually. I experience chronic ideation, so at this point in my therapy I talk about it every session. Normally it’s just a quick check in as to what the severity of my ideation is, but there are times where I’ll talk more in depth about how it affects me, my relationships, my goals, etc. I’m not excited that I experience what I do, but it’s unfortunately something that I have to deal with. Over time it’s become less stigmatized. I’ve only discussed suicide from my therapists perspective very minimally. My current therapist I believe have worked with people who have completed. From what I’ve read from others, most have. I continue to think about how willing I’ll be about discussing my personal experiences once I am working clinically.

[ScarletPimpernel]

L has answered what her experience with sui is. She hasn't given me any specifics, but I never asked for it yet. The conversation will continue on Friday.

She already is a reason I fight to live. But I want to live for more than just her, my dogs, and a few other people. I want to live because I want to live. And I think/hope that if I understood its affects better, then maybe the times I am sui won't be so hard/tempting.

[nottrustin]

I discussed it with long term T. We realized it was not about me wanting to die but for the emotional pain to stop. She knee my children were the most important thing in my life. One time when I told her that the thought were verI persistent and I was fighting thre thoughs. tWhenever she had clients who were suicidal she asked them to writet a goodbye letter to their children. That way in the even that they did SU she would have something tangible to give to the children when the started asking why. She realized that while I may have the thoughts I will never do it.

When she spoke to my current T she told her that while I may have the thoughts, she always knew I could never do it. She also told her if I bring up the subject to mention my children. So now if it happens she weaves my kids into thr conversation.

[daisydid]

The way that my current T frames SI is that when the brain can’t foresee a solution to your problem(s), it may begin to believe that SUI is a viable option.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My SI is definitely to escape the pain. There are definitely things I love and appreciate about life. It's when the pain feels unbearable or I feel trapped, it's my coping mechanism to go to sui.

Also L helped me figure out that my SH is when I feel my pain is not being heard. Might be why having two good Ts (T and L) who have listened to me, has helped me not SH. (Unlike ex-T who always threatened hospitalization).

[ArtieTheSequal]

I haven't talked much about it with L.

Possible trigger:

I had a coworker many years ago when I still worked in Telecom who went through with it. Our supervisor went to his apartment when he hadn't shown up for work or called in and found him. When a timeline was put together we figured out that I may have been the last person to speak with him - I was working midnights taking calls from customers and he had called in, he was cheerful and talkative and I talked to him for a little while until calls started backing up and I had to go (I was alone on the phones during that stretch). That messed with my head for a LONG time after.

When I was in the midst of the worst of my depression and had thoughts - I remembered that, and also knew I couldn't leave my son without his beloved momma. He was still young then - 10 or 11.

[IrisBloom]

I might have mentioned sui in passing but never dwelt on it.

I have been at that point several times and I have learned from it too. Like Nottrustin, it's more about wanting relief than not wanting to live, in my case. I think there are many avenues to get to the point, and many reasons and situations. In my case each time was due to self neglect, not taking meds. It was like my body and brain were both agreeing that I couldn't get any lower, so sui was the next step. I never waneed to check out, just wanted no pain. I was afraid I'd crack up and do something so I got help at that point.

I just wanted to point out that sometimes it's a mix of things to get you to that point. You can have real physical issues with depression too.

IMO it's ok to talk about sui just like any other fear or concern. No one without experience or training can understand what it's like, so be selective about it. I think it's normal to be curious and wonder.

It is NOT normal to not want to live. Please get to hospital or call 911 if you feel at all in danger!

[*Beth*]

I have lost an aunt, a cousin, and a number of friends to suicide, and as horrific as it is to have someone I loved take that exit, I have still experienced SI myself. I have dialogued openly with my therapist when I have SI. She's wonderful about it...doesn't act shocked or disbelieving; she reacts in a way I think is totally appropriate. She's supportive, and encourages me to recall the life improvements I've made with the proper meds and with therapy. She does not threaten me with IP. One time when I was in an especially bad state of mind and my T called between sessions to check on me. I really appreciated that.

[stopdog]

I consider Right to Die a viable option. Belgium and germany are a lot more civilized than the united states. I have never serously wanted to commit suicide but I do not want to be trapped by the medical profession if I ever get sick/injured. I don't wear seatbelts because I fear being maimed more than being dead. My person had plans in case the pain got too bad before they killed her with their cancer treatments. I have several copies of Final Exit (parts are memorized), an open plane ticket to Belgium, and some other plans in place should it ever become necessary. I do not want someone else in charge of me or my end. The end comes no matter what. I would never urge it on anyone else, but I do very firmly believe in one having the Right to Die on one's own terms. I told both of those people about it - they didn't really seem to take any notice of it. I wasn't asking for their opinion of it.
I have had a couple of friends who died from suicide - it was no different to me than friends who died from cancer, car wrecks, etc.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by BethRags

I have lost an aunt, a cousin, and a number of friends to suicide, and as horrific as it is to have someone I loved take that exit, I have still experienced SI myself. I have dialogued openly with my therapist when I have SI. She's wonderful about it...doesn't act shocked or disbelieving; she reacts in a way I think is totally appropriate. She's supportive, and encourages me to recall the life improvements I've made with the proper meds and with therapy. She does not threaten me with IP. One time when I was in an especially bad state of mind and my T called between sessions to check on me. I really appreciated that.

It sounds like your therapist knows you well which is important. My T assured me she could ever imagine IP being the answer for me. She expressed that she felt it would do me more harm than good.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Personally, I am safe right now. I'm not actually suffering from any thoughts. Which is why this is the perfect time to have this conversation with L. When I can actually process and take in everything.

Also, this isn't about a person's right to die or not. That is another topic and more sensitive to others I would think. This is simply about discussing sui and SI with your T, and how it has affected you. I understand that it affects people differently and am glad to hear the different points of view. And I don't want there to be a debate of opinions.

My thread is a sincere curiosity about sui. I don't have anyone who will have a conversation with me. Anytime I bring up the topic with dad or H its "Talk to L". They do not want to hear it. Or my mom tells me that I just need to spend the night at her house and everything will be okay. There are no serious conversations. I have L, T, and you all. Which I am grateful for. And I feel in a good space to talk about such issues.

[stopdog]

I talk with others about suicide a lot as a concept or personal liberty - I am not philosophically opposed to the idea. I did not have a reason to talk to a therapist about it really. I would not have given them the opportunity to try and interfere with my will. There would have been no need or reason for me to talk to a therapist about such a thing whether I was contemplating it or not.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

My SI is definitely to escape the pain. There are definitely things I love and appreciate about life. It's when the pain feels unbearable or I feel trapped, it's my coping mechanism to go to sui.

I don't experience chronic suicidal ideation, but... I struggled with the thoughts on three different occasions over the last year due to the lockdown and the major disruption it caused. Losing my job, having my training put on indefinite hold and a precarious housing situation were enough to push me over the edge. My normal outlets were unavailable due to all the government restrictions, so finding relief or escape felt impossible. Life suddenly felt out of control. Finding hope felt impossible. Basically I was trapped.

The thoughts were very disconcerting. At first I just dealt with them as best as I could. The last round made me wonder why I was thinking like that. I realized they were all about gaining a sense of control, something the lockdown took from me. At least I could control my fate. Somehow that made me survive. - I shared this strange observation with my psychiatrist. She agreed with me, but pointed out that I tend to overthink and get stuck in my thoughts.

[velcro003]

Yes, I talk to my T about my ideations. She is really great about it, doesn't freak out or act too mothery or overly smushy about it either. She takes it very seriously and has even shown up at my house once out of concern, but she is great at parsing out what are just thoughts and more active ideation. We've talked very plainly about certain methods and how it would affect her and my family/friends. When she showed up at my house, I told her I was sorry I ruined her day. She goes, "If you had died, it would have ruined my year." Hearing that really affected me. She cares? It is a weird concept for me.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I consider Right to Die a viable option. ...

Yes, I get that...however, I believe that people who choose to end their lives because of terminal illness do have to be "of sound mind" in order to legally make the decision. I don't think that people who suicide are of sound mind at the time they choose to end their lives.