[Waterbear]

I guess a lot of you may know that my long term therapist of 5 years (K) suddenly stopped working last year, and that I am struggling to find someone to continue working with. Before I found that lady I had seen someone (J) for 6 months who ideally I would have continued with, but she worked for a charity and couldn't see me long term sadly. She was very good to me and kept seeing me until I had found the right person, which took several months. She has always said that she cares deeply for me, and up until now I always believed her.

When my long term therapist left, I reached out to her again after all those years, and she saw me for two sessions, but only while we both thought that K would return to work. When it transpired that she wouldn't, J said that she couldn't commit to working with me, but that she wanted to help me, and asked if I would let her find a good T for me. I said that I would appreciate her help, but I also kept looking, and trialling. J even used the words 'therapy guardian' when we were talking during one of the sessions she saw me for, which I took to mean that she would always be there in some way, almost like a Godparent would be, I guess. Interested in what was happening and there to lend a supportive ear when things were really bad.

While I was waiting for her to find someone who might be a good fit for me, I found a lady who was helping me to come to terms with what had happened with K leaving. Someone who was helping me to find a path forwards. Someone who was helping me to manage the overwhelming grief that I was feeling. But it never felt like this was going to be the right person to continue with long term, and I was clear about that from the outset.

And then J let me know that she had found a potential new T for me, which made me feel very hopeful. I saw this lady for about 6 weeks in total. We had an incredibly poor first meeting, but things did seem to slowly improve. Sadly the space she was working in was not very private, and she could see I was struggling with that. She was also a very busy and a very boundaried (by her own admission) therapist which was a complete role reversal from my long term T, and this was hard for me to adjust to. The final nail in the coffin was when she told me that the venue that we were currently in was at risk of closing down and she wasn't sure what was going to happen to our sessions. We discussed the possibility of me going back to see the temporary lady I was seeing, as a kind of transition over Christmas and the New Year and we mutually agreed that this would be the best thing for me, while she searched for a new place to work from.

On our last session I asked her to promise that she would keep looking for somewhere suitable and she said that she promised. I told her that I would be back in touch in the New Year.

So, I have been seeing this temporary T for a few more months now and realising that I am in a better place with the grief and the confusion with K leaving. Feeling like it may be time to start the work properly again now, and so I reached out to the Potential New T as I said I would. She replied to say that she had found a new venue, but that it was a fair distance away, and that she now had no availability until after Easter at the earliest. She said that this may not work for me.

Wow. I was shocked to be honest. We had left things we me (probably foolishly) thinking that she would be in a position to see me as I thought we had agreed. I mean, I get that the location maybe couldn't be helped, but I was surprised she was now saying that she was full.

I wrote back thanking her for her email and asking if she was aware of anyone nearer to me that might have availability. I explained that I may be back in touch in the future if things still didn't work out for me with this temporary lady, or if I could t find anyone else. But she never replied this, which looking back on now I think is really bad.

So I reached out to J again, and told her that I was really tired of feeling like I was just hitting dead ends at every turn. I told her I wasn't sure what I was looking for by emailing but that I was just tired and contemplating giving up on it all.

That was it, just a few lines of text.

She replied saying she was sorry to hear that, but that she couldn't help anymore. She said she had known I wasn't seeing the lady she had found, but believed I was working with someone. She suggested that I look again at the directories online to see if I could find someone to work with and that was that basically.

So I replied with a little more detail, explaining that I wasn't looking for her help so much as some understanding and compassion. I explained how things had been left with the potential new T and I, and why I didn't feel that the lady I was seeing was right long term. I explained that I had now contacted in the region of 50 therapists but was finding that very few had availability, and that of those that did, most were not really trauma therapists or able to provide anything other than traditional talk therapy, something that doesn't really suit me. I like to write and draw and build and be able to move and demonstrate things. Again, I thanked her for her email and kept everything polite and reasonable, I felt.

She didn't reply either.

I'm actually really gobsmacked that neither of these people replied to me, especially given what they had both led me to believe. Did I expect too much??

Sorry for the long story, but I just need a little input I think. Maybe I did expect too much? Maybe I was spoilt by my long term T. Or maybe I have just been let down again by people who take your mental health in their hands but who will drop you like a rock when they aren't benefitting financially from you.

I'm confused, as you might be able to tell!!

[Rive.]

No, you did not expect too much...

They acted pretty poorly. First that temp T who can only see you around easter, I mean what the heck!? I would also have assumed she would find a location and fit me in, asap not months away. To me it shows lack of caring. Secondly, J just dropped you too. That is a pretty pathetic move from her. She can't even help you now?! It's too much for her to pull her finger out and help someone she made promises to. Add further lack of ethical responsibility by not answering as well.

I am sorry you are struggling to find a T but frankly, you deserve better than these two miscreants. Shame on them.

[susannahsays]

I think there was some miscommunication and I also think they let you down, particularly in doing so over email then ghosting.

You're not irrational for feeling let down or like they could and should have done better.

[LonesomeTonight]

Hugs if wanted, Waterbear. I agree that you're not expecting too much. With the T who can't see you until Easter--is that because the space isn't available until then or because she's that booked up? Not that either are OK. But if it's the second one, could you maybe get on a cancellation list or wait list while searching for another T? Though if she's that booked, she's probably not a good option anyway...

I definitely think that both should have gotten back to you. How long ago did you write to them? Is it possible that one or both are on vacation?

I hope you're able to find someone who can work with you. For the T's you've looked into who do regular "talk therapy," have you specifically asked if they could do the sort of therapy you'd want? It could be that they may be willing.

[Omers]

To me it sounds like the T from the charity may have been getting pressure from the charity to cut things off. At least that is my hope. I can’t imagine her being so caring and helpful and then not. I also had a T at one point working for a place that subsidized the costs of therapy. Their opinions and agendas definitely impacted my therapy negatively.
The other one… this may sound harsh but if she isn’t going to keep space for you (or at least follow up before filling her calendar… then perhaps it is better that things end sooner rather than later. I know I wouldn’t want to work with her from what little you shared.
I wish you luck finding the right T… it is SO hard and there are so many bad and useless ones out there… just remember you are worth the effort it takes to find the right person to work with!

[Waterbear]

Originally Posted by Rive.

No, you did not expect too much...

They acted pretty poorly. First that temp T who can only see you around easter, I mean what the heck!? I would also have assumed she would find a location and fit me in, asap not months away. To me it shows lack of caring. Secondly, J just dropped you too. That is a pretty pathetic move from her. She can't even help you now?! It's too much for her to pull her finger out and help someone she made promises to. Add further lack of ethical responsibility by not answering as well.

I am sorry you are struggling to find a T but frankly, you deserve better than these two miscreants. Shame on them.

Thank you so much for reading and replying, and for telling me I didn't expect too much. Sometimes I think I am going crazy, the therapeutic relationships are so hard to manage for someone that struggles with even a normal relationship. I re-read the last email I sent Temp T and in it I definitely say I will be in touch, probably in the new year. I did say 'possibly nearer spring' but I fully would have expected her to at least check in with me before booking herself out fully, given that I did say probably in the New Year. I don't know, I think the most annoying thing is that she didn't even bother to reply to me, but then that kind of summed up how she was when we saw each other for those 6 weeks. Very distant and very boundaried. In some ways I think that's what I need because it makes me angry, and anger is something that I need to learn to feel about my past, but I don't know.

And yeah, I am a bit shocked about J's response to it all to be honest. It feels like she has done a complete U-turn on me. I mean, I am used to being let down by people, it's why I decided many years ago NEVER to let anyone close to me, but these people try and convince you that 'connection to others is important', and then they go and do things like this. It's meaning I have to work really hard not to go back to that shut down place again.

[Waterbear]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I think there was some miscommunication and I also think they let you down, particularly in doing so over email then ghosting.

You're not irrational for feeling let down or like they could and should have done better.

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. Sometimes it is hard to tell isn't it.

[Waterbear]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Hugs if wanted, Waterbear. I agree that you're not expecting too much. With the T who can't see you until Easter--is that because the space isn't available until then or because she's that booked up? Not that either are OK. But if it's the second one, could you maybe get on a cancellation list or wait list while searching for another T? Though if she's that booked, she's probably not a good option anyway...

I definitely think that both should have gotten back to you. How long ago did you write to them? Is it possible that one or both are on vacation?

I hope you're able to find someone who can work with you. For the T's you've looked into who do regular "talk therapy," have you specifically asked if they could do the sort of therapy you'd want? It could be that they may be willing.

Thanks Lonesome. It is because she is fully booked in the new venue. She took on additional clients despite me telling her I would be in touch. I guess maybe it was my fault for saying "probably in the New Year, possibly closer to Spring" and for that reason the fact that she is fully booked isn't as big a deal as the fact that she couldn't even be bothered to reply to me. I know she wasn't on leave because she had just returned (the first email I sent went unanswered for a week and she explained that was because she had just returned from a break). I guess some other event could have occurred that means she can't reply, who knows. I am tempted to ask her to put me on the list for when she does become available, but to be honest I am not sure now whether I could trust her. The only reason I would want to see her is because she makes me so angry, and anger is the thing that needs to be brought out and worked on. But is that the right way of doing it??

I truly thought J would have responded, but I guess she has had enough of me now. I don't want to leave things like this, but I am not sure what choice I have. I could write again I suppose, nothing left to lose??

[Waterbear]

Originally Posted by Omers

To me it sounds like the T from the charity may have been getting pressure from the charity to cut things off. At least that is my hope. I can’t imagine her being so caring and helpful and then not. I also had a T at one point working for a place that subsidized the costs of therapy. Their opinions and agendas definitely impacted my therapy negatively.
The other one… this may sound harsh but if she isn’t going to keep space for you (or at least follow up before filling her calendar… then perhaps it is better that things end sooner rather than later. I know I wouldn’t want to work with her from what little you shared.
I wish you luck finding the right T… it is SO hard and there are so many bad and useless ones out there… just remember you are worth the effort it takes to find the right person to work with!

Thanks for reading my post Omers, and replying. If she was just with the charity I would totally see that, but she also works privately and it was through her private practice that I saw her twice last summer, so sadly I know that is not a factor here. I guess she has just had enough of me now. I am sorry you suffered at the hands of the reduced rate therapy thing, the nuances of it all can truly suck.

And yeah, thank you, I totally hear what you are saying about the other T. The only reason I am tempted to go see her after Easter is because she brings out the anger in me. That and the fact that actually, thinking about it, she did seem technically.... competent? In an incompetent kind of way? VERY hard to explain, but something about her seemed really right, whilst at the same time seeming so wrong.

Thank you. The therapy search is excruciatingly difficult, for me. I wonder whether I am being too picky, but then something in me says "NO, you are just wanting to find the right thing for you". I know it is out there, because I went through all of this when I was looking for K, and we did such good work together because I stuck to my guns. I just don't know how much fight I have left in me, and I don't think it was too much to ask for a little moral support from someone (J) who I genuinely believed gave a s**t.

[susannahsays]

I'm going to tell you my theory about what happened with J. Of course I could be way off base. Just my suspicion based on working with therapists and seeing how willing many of them are to throw a client to the wolves if they feel even a little bit threatened.

I think she read what you said about "giving up" in an alarmist, over-dramatic way. Then realized if anyone would be on the hook, it would probably be her and belatedly tried to cover her *** by muddying the waters. It sounds like she tried to plant the idea that you don't actually have a therapy relationship with her which isn't accurate.

I feel like her response was all about manipulating you and CYA. I say that as someone who has a tendency to be manipulative as a sort of second nature (likely from needing to be good at it to get by in my home growing up blah blah sad violin). I've gotten a lot better about it since I've become aware of that side of me, but that has come with an uncomfortable awareness of when other people are being manipulative.

I'm not saying she was being malicious. I don't have any evidence for that, although her conduct was certainly careless in the extreme. I think most people would be surprised to learn they're being manipulative because it's just automatic and they assume manipulation is always an conscious malicious act. To some extent, this is true of almost everyone due to the way humans communicate and deal with conflict - by and large we consider too much directness to be uncivilized. Some cultures more so than others.

I think therapists are probably more habitual manipulators than average and among the least aware of the fact because it doesn't line up with their self image. It probably doesn't help that most therapists are women and women tend to be criticized for directness. We are constantly expected to be nice and considerate of everybody else's feelings above our own.

I've never known a therapist, in my dealings professionally or as a client, admit to being manipulative in an isolated instance, let alone habitually.

The "miscommunication" I was referring to in my first response was related to the other therapist and expectations for when you would contact her and if she would hold your spot, not in J pulling a fast one to make you doubt your interpretation of her actions up to the end.

Just my opinion, though, take it or leave it as you find most helpful.

[Waterbear]

Thanks Susannah. I do hear what you are saying, but for some reason it doesn't resonate with how I feel the situation, and what I know of her. I could be totally wrong though, who the hell knows! She just doesn't strike me as that kind of a person. If anything, I wonder whether maybe she was just trying to make me stand on my own two feet. Thing is, she knows me and knows all too well that standing on my own two feet is something I never had a problem with. Letting other people help me, however, that's a different story. It took a lot for me to trust her in the first place and it took a lot of courage this time round to let her help me. She encouraged me to continue after losing K and now I just feel... Ignored.

[susannahsays]

If that explanation doesn't resound with you, try this on for size.

I've known cases where therapists have done a 180 and left the client baffled. After a big old rupture and lots of tears, the therapist admits a colleague or supervisor gave them feedback that made them rethink their strategy. The therapist starts doubting herself and questioning if what she's doing is therapeutic or if she's harming the client in some way. Therapist ultimately panics and, in her haste to correct course, harms the client. This seems to be a common story when therapists change boundaries seemingly out of the blue from the client's perspective.

It sounds like a narrative where she's still looking out for your best interests (or thinks she is) feels more true to you. I can't recall an instance of the above scenario where the therapist just terminated all contact (at least not before trying to repair the rupture), but since she was never going to be your permanent therapist, perhaps this is what made sense to her at the time.

That could even match up with your feeling about the own two feet thing. I don't think it would make sense if she just came up with that herself since you say that's never been an issue. However, I could see a supervisor telling her she was holding you back or something.

Idk, just more ideas about what may have happened.

[Etcetera1]

Originally Posted by Waterbear

Thank you so much for reading and replying, and for telling me I didn't expect too much. Sometimes I think I am going crazy, the therapeutic relationships are so hard to manage for someone that struggles with even a normal relationship. I re-read the last email I sent Temp T and in it I definitely say I will be in touch, probably in the new year. I did say 'possibly nearer spring' but I fully would have expected her to at least check in with me before booking herself out fully, given that I did say probably in the New Year. I don't know, I think the most annoying thing is that she didn't even bother to reply to me, but then that kind of summed up how she was when we saw each other for those 6 weeks. Very distant and very boundaried. In some ways I think that's what I need because it makes me angry, and anger is something that I need to learn to feel about my past, but I don't know.

And yeah, I am a bit shocked about J's response to it all to be honest. It feels like she has done a complete U-turn on me. I mean, I am used to being let down by people, it's why I decided many years ago NEVER to let anyone close to me, but these people try and convince you that 'connection to others is important', and then they go and do things like this. It's meaning I have to work really hard not to go back to that shut down place again.

Hey there. I really am familiar with all those feelings and stuff. Thanks to therapy, tbh, I never felt all of this like this outside therapy stuff.

But then I tried to go into therapy because of actual issues and events that happened in my life. So it would be hard to say if therapy is to blame or the events are to blame or both : p (Bet it's both.)

Anyway. Yup I've felt that pressure too "but these people try and convince you that 'connection to others is important'" from "these people".

And I'm like. If it feels like being pressured into it, others trying to convince me that hard, I don't want it. It needs to be natural, not artificially sped up.

Tbh I don't want to be shut down either, so it's all a fine balance, of course. Dancing on that tightrope over the abyss, you know.

***

So anyway, about the issue with these therapists.

Firstoff. I saw your posts wondering about anger, too.

If you have issues with a particular primary emotion for certain types of situations because maladaptive beliefs or secondary emotions or other people's instrumental emotions - if used manipulatively - obscured it, then yeah, it's a great step to get in touch with it, your anger in this case, but you do have to proceed very carefully at that point. Is my advice/answer to those posts of yours.

I mean. I don't know if that therapist is up to this work with your anger in the way you need it done. I've never seen one that was up to work with mine in the way it would've worked for me. If she is willing and able to, you should take that opportunity IMO.

***

My own take on the current situation itself:

(IMPORTANT: Please, if anything feels like I'm accidentally invalidating your feelings, feel free to not read on or anything.)

As far as the Potential New Therapist, it likely is what you've said, miscommunication about when to get in touch again. It would be hard to expect most people, including a relatively new therapist, to keep your personal preferences in mind like that if they do not have a routine or schedule for dealing with that type of thing already. In this situation, doubtful she had one.

Why she didn't respond, IMO is simply that you did not - whether directly or indirectly - request that there be a response. At least, in your OP here, I don't see anything about you having asked her to respond or having asked some question that clearly requires a response and so on.

I know you did ask a question about whether she knows about anyone else to recommend. But some people just don't respond if their response would be no more than "I don't know anyone, and yes, thanks for letting me know". It would be just too much extra writing of emails/messages with short polite niceties. It's harder to communicate things like that online than IRL, for sure.

As for J, my personal feeling is that she was trying to help you a bit as far as it seemed appropriate to her for the situation since she's not doing therapy with you right now; and then when you put in a direct request about what emotional attitudes you want from her, she didn't really know what to say. People often won't know what to say in such a situation. And it's even harder to do all this kind of communication online without seeing each other face to face.

And I don't know if you two discussed what her being a therapy guardian means in practice, how it would be implemented in practice.

Or what she exactly means by caring deeply about you. Because, it's one thing to feel that, and try to do what one can do, and another thing to feel it AND not be able to do more than that. Even if one may want to, and something else suddenly comes up and then it's not possible to do more. Life can be pretty hectic.

She could of course have f***cked up and promised too much on the spur of the moment just to make you feel happy without thinking about it.

Miscommunication overall can be a very big issue at that point. When it comes to these deep needs and communication of them, on both ends, even if it's with an experienced therapist.

***

Why I think all the above:

Her short email to your original short email was reasonable, polite, appropriate, though not showing deep involved emotionality.

She may have thought that you were going to talk with your current temporary therapist more in detail about these feelings. With her knowing of the temporary therapist, it may have seemed like to her that you were a bit impulsively venting a little and that you probably got over it by the time she was responding to your email. I doubt she was trying to look too deep just going by your first shorter email. This is hard to do online anyway, very hard to mind read in emails, as they can come off so impersonal even from people you know IRL.

All that before she got the second email from you requesting her understanding and compassion.

I'm no therapist but I frankly wouldn't be sure myself what to say to an email like that myself. I would feel like I have no idea what to say without hurting the other person. I would feel like I am lacking too much context to really say more. I would feel like I have no idea how much time I'm expected to put in to respond to this email. It would all be very vague and I would feel very unsure as to how to proceed. Especially online. IRL it's again easier.

A lot of people at that point may just give up trying to think about it all as they have to deal with other issues and responsibilities in their lives. Unless it's their direct responsibility to spend time on it, which she did not have as she's not your current therapist.

This is just my take, you would have to ask her if you really wanted to know for sure, not possible to mind read in an exact way.

Only you can know what feels right though from all the suggestions you're receiving here, including mine. What feels like it truly makes sense and so on. Hope it helped some, either way.

[Waterbear]

Thank you very much Ectetera, for reaching and taking the time it just have taken you to write that. I read it just before bed last night and it struck me what a rational point of view it was. I don't have time this morning to reply fully, but just wanted to say thank you, and take some time to let that settle with me I think. I have session this morning, and as of yet I have no idea whether this will enter the room with me or not. I expect maybe it will.

[Waterbear]

Tbh I don't want to be shut down either, so it's all a fine balance, of course. Dancing on that tightrope over the abyss, you know

Thanks Etcetera, I know that tightrope all too well! Hopefully you'll find your way across it in a way that suits you. Thanks again for the input, it really helped. I did end up taking this to session with New T. Actually, we spent the whole 90 minutes on it, but I think it needed it. She read the emails between J and I and said similar to you. She said that from her take on it she wouldn't have actually felt that it warranted a reply, which I can see, in some way. I wanted a reply, but sometimes the whole 'I don't deserve your time' thing comes in and leads my writing, if that makes sense. Anyway, with J I decided to email again yesterday. To be fair I didn't feel like I had much to lose at this point because it already felt like she had shut the door and walked away from me. I asked her if I had upset her, or annoyed her, or if she was trying to keep her distance now I was working with someone else, and she replied to say she was very sorry that I felt the way I did after her last email, that it was never her intention to close the door, that I had not upset her in anyway. She said more, but that was the main thing I needed to hear and I am grateful she made the time to tell me that.

You are right, so often things can be misconstrued via email. Personally I would have liked to have seen her for a session, but I know that isn't really a possibility, and I don't talk well about such things so that kind of rules a phone call out. So being absolutely direct and asking the questions was the right way ahead, I think.

As for the potential New T? Well, I am a very sensitive soul, and I just don't think that she is all that compatible with such a sensitive person. From the very first meeting to the very last exchange, that is the sense that I got. Delicacy? Is that a word? I don't think she would take the time or the consideration that the sensitive parts of me need, and that's just how it is. To be honest, I think it is a shame, because in some way I do think she would be an amazing therapist, and I am not ruling out going back to see her at some point in the future.

It probably just wouldn't even have dawned on her to reply, despite the fact that we saw each other every week for 7 weeks. Whereas another potential new T that I had been in contact with recently replied to my email saying I wouldn't be coming, but thanking her for her time with a very lovely email wishing me all the best and saying that I could always contact her in the future if the need arises.

Haha, I just had a thought, maybe Potential New T, having now met me and got to know me a tiny bit, actually really doesn't want to work with me, whereas this other new lady doesn't know yet that she should be running for the hills rather than inviting me back!!!