T issues

I have been VERY fortunate to have a number of really good trauma T’s in my life. They have all ticked all the boxes. It is possible.

Exactly this. Sometimes these things are a bit difficult to sort out. This is a huge pain but it’s clear cut.

I agree also that she’s taking advantage of your good nature. Like I’m sorry that she has a lot of demands on her but you don’t pay her so that she can make that your problem.

She of all people should know that many clients need stability and consistency. Especially for trauma, since her inconsistency with scheduling and how she's being less warm to subtly punish you = harmful, harmful, harmful.

My friend with the string of unhelpful therapists? Their last one claimed to be a "specialist in complex trauma", and did majorly unethical things. Among which which was this "less open and warm" thing, and her defensiveness.

My therapist was really horrified by some stuff I mentioned (there aren't a lot of trauma therapists where I live), because I asked her if she knew sliding scale therapists who could help my friend.

Why? Because, as a client, you expressed your feelings? Because, as a client, you drew your T's attention to something relevant and non-significant that was impacting you and your sessions?

Is this what you would tell a friend if it had happened to them: you brought on yourself, pal

Please, be kind to yourself. There is nothing wrong in speaking up when something is wrong. If the other cannot stay at the table with you (and Ts ought to be trained to do so!), it doesn't mean you should 'shut up and put up' with other people's nonsense. You are entitled to express when something displeases you. That's the client's prerogative. IF they get defensive and cannot handle it, it's on *them* not on you. It shows *their* lack and deficiency - not yours.

Well since I raised the issue of the constant interruptions, there hasn't been one in any of the last 3 sessions! So T has obviously taken on board what I've said and has taken steps to prevent it happening whilst we are talking. Which I know is only what she should have done in the first place, but it's a shame it has taken a rupture to get here. We will see how long the peace in sessions lasts.

Cynical me wonders if she sensed that I was pulling away and getting ready to stop sessions with her, as the last couple have felt more like they did in the earlier weeks when she had a warmer attitude, seemed kinder and more invested in the therapy relationship.

It's almost as though things run smoothly for a while and I just start to get comfortable and feel that I can trust her and want to work with her long-term, then something happens to break that and we are back to square one with me being unsure about the whole therapy process and wondering if I should quit. T says she feels there is an element of avoidance with me. I do want to 'go there' and do the difficult stuff, but part of me doesn't and wants to avoid it at all costs.

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I'm puzzled that she's saying she feels you're avoiding. Yes, some survivors both want to "go there" and to avoid it at all costs - that's the nature of trauma, isn't it?

I'm wondering if she's aware that maybe your (supposed) avoidance comes from her subtle inconsistencies, and I wonder if she examines her role in it, if any.

Yes, some of it could be your perception (for example, when my T gets firm with her voice tone, I always feel scared like she's scolding me even though we've worked together a long time), but someone telling you "I'm a safe person" is just words, and does nothing on it's own to convey safety. It's going to be how she is as a therapist/person over time and with consistency that will show your nervous system whether or not she's safe enough or not.

When she said she feels there's an element of avoidance, how did she say it? Did she seem to blame you? Or did she say stuff where you feel that given more rapport/trust over time, you could open up to her?

I hope that she'll prove trustworthy and helpful. Or if not, that you can find the therapist you need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by East17 ..... It's almost as though things run smoothly for a while and I just start to get comfortable and feel that I can trust her and want to work with her long-term, then something happens to break that and we are back to square one with me being unsure about the whole therapy process and wondering if I should quit. T says she feels there is an element of avoidance with me. I do want to 'go there' and do the difficult stuff, but part of me doesn't and wants to avoid it at all costs.

Well, I sure do relate to this! Maybe it is true that you have an element of avoidance. It is also very possible that you feel understandably cautious because of the unpredictability of your therapist/therapy situation. Can you trust it?

There could be elements of both, too.

Just please...speak up if you feel like she's telling you something about yourself that doesn't feel right to you

I'm so sorry you experienced this East and that your T became defensive when you brought it up. You had every right to address this with her because at the end of the day therapy should be focussed on you - that is what you're paying for and it doesn't matter how much or little you pay, she needs to adhere to ethical guidelines and being constantly interrupted by family matters isn't ethical practice no matter what her situation happens to be.

I find it so frustrating that so many of us in therapy are relationally damaged and struggle with voicing our needs to our T's and feeling like we are worthy and then end up having these very issues reinforced by T's who have not worked through their own emotional issues sufficiently enough

I'm glad it seems that she might have quietly taken on board your concerns and reduced interruptions. However, I think her defensiveness is a very bad sign and the fact she wasn't able to enter into a honest open discussion with you about your feelings doesn't bode well. When it comes to trauma work you need a therapist who can be rock solid and own their own stuff or else she will re-traumatise you and this could take much longer to recover from.

I see you live in the UK as well. Finding therapists here doesn't have to be hard. I've worked with several and most were amazing in different ways. Please don't feel you have to 'put up' with one T who is kind of okay because you might not find someone any better. That kind of thinking is the result of trauma and just isn't true. As someone else said, no therapy is better than bad therapy.

Tread carefully with this T and definitely check out other T's in the process. A therapist who owns their own stuff, is self-aware and honest and empathic towards YOU is worth their weight in solid gold.

Logically know you are right about this. But I think I'm scared that I already had that "worth their weight in gold" T in my life (the one who died earlier this year) and that no one else is going to match up to her. I think it's why I keep giving this one more chances than maybe I would otherwise, because I don't feel I'm being fair in comparing her to ex-T.

I'm not saying ex-T was perfect, far from it, and she definitely pushed me in ways I didn't like or appreciate at the time. But I did recognise that she was 100% committed, passionate about her job and genuinely invested in doing her best for me.

I just miss her so much, and the strange therapy relationship being what it is, I can't talk about her with anyone else who knew her. I don't feel comfortable talking about her to current T, although she said it's ok, but it just feels too weird. I was going to speak to someone else just about the bereavement stuff but after having waited 3 weeks for the appointment, they had to cancel at the last minute due to illness.

I feel if I can't get all the complicated mixed up things out of my head about ex-T, I'll never be able to move on with someone else.

That sounds too weird even to me.

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Ack, that is very rough.

I understand this sentiment perfectly. I hope you are able to talk about it with current T, or find another T to talk about it. Grief over losing a T is REAL and should be processed.

This all sounds so difficult, I'm sorry.

Is there a specific reason why you feel you can't talk about her with your T? Is it that she knew her? I ask because I went to my current T to consult about my transference for my marriage counselor, as my individual T at the time wasn't helping. After I'd already set up the appointment, I learned that he used to work in the same practice as the marriage counselor. I was going to keep him anonymous, but realized certain details (his wife dying, in particular) could make him realize who I was talking about. So I just told him and asked if he felt he'd be OK with my talking about him, if he felt he could be objective. And he said yes.

I now feel I've pretty much put ex-MC behind me. But I needed to talk about him quite a bit in therapy in order to do so, to process what had happened. So I think it's worth attempting to do that with your current T or to keep looking for someone else who can help you with that.

Having a deep relationship with one T doesn't mean you'll never find another wonderful T who you can connect with deeply, albeit in a different way as relationships are all different.

I'm a case in point. I had a very deep attachment to a T I saw many years ago at an agency. Our work together ended because she left the agency after 3 years. I missed her so much that I dreamed about her nearly every night for at least a year and I cried pretty much every day too. It took me much longer to get over her. Up until a few years ago I'd still occasionally cry about her, and to this day I have the odd dream of her.

Now I've been working with a T who I have such strong feelings for that it's honestly like being in love. I never thought I could feel strongly about anyone after my ex T but I do. It's NOT the same, they are very different people, the love is totally different, but the depth of connection is more intense than it was with my ex T.

So please don't write off your chance to connect with another amazing T. It won't be the same, but it can still be special.

In the meantime, try and find a T who you can at least process your feelings about ex T with. I did when I started seeing a T straight after it ended with ex T. I grew not to like her in some ways, albeit she was helpful in others, but at least provided a space for me to process my feelings about ex T. She even told me there will be others who I meet and grow to love, it won't end with ex T. I didn't believe her of course, but she was right.

I know it's painful when you're grieving for a therapist you loved. Just please know you can still go onto develop deep attachments with others. Keep your heart open and don't give up.

This is not a universal experience. For some people, disengaging from therapy and paid-for relationships after painful experiences in those relationships is the safe and wise thing to do. Therapy is not an objective good. A person's willingness and ability to re-engage with therapy will depend on so many aspects of life (socio-economic factors, attachment style, trauma history, cultural or attitudinal atmosphere, access to services, etc) that I don't think it is reasonable to strongly encourage others to take the path which has suited you and your personal circumstances.

Starting over with a new T has its pros and cons. For some, they find a better T. For others, they don't find a T that matches with them. And then there's many other scenarios that are true too. Suggesting that one way or the other is best, doesn't mean either will apply to an individual. But if an individual has the wherewithal to keep trying, then it might definitely be worth it.

I have been with both bad Ts, mediocre Ts, good Ts, and great Ts. I went from mediocre to bad to great to bad. Took an 8 year break because of agoraphobia. Found a bad one, then a good one, and now a great one. For me, I needed a therapist's help. There was no other way for me.

My point is that everyone is different and everyone has different experiences. It IS a possibility that one might find a good T after a bad one.

I don't dispute any of that. I'm aware that some people have had painful experiences in therapy. I'm certainly not claiming that my experience is shared by everyone. I was just sharing it with East and operating under the assumption that it may encourage her IF she decides she wants to seek out another T, which it sounded to me like she was considering. Note that I used the words 'can' and not 'will' - she can go onto develop deeper attachments etc, not that she WILL, but it is possible. I I don't think anyone is going to feel forced into doing something they don't want to do just from reading a stranger's experience on an internet forum and therefore it was not unreasonable of me to share a personal experience in the hope it might help.

I can't believe you put up with it for that long.

I agree with this. I had been very attached to my former marriage counselor (not particularly attached to my former individual T) and didn't think I'd be able to find someone like him who could be my individual T. Well, my current T is very different from him, but we have a good relationship that feels more genuine and solid in many ways. Are we a perfect fit? No. But he's been really helpful in some areas. And helped me in getting past ex-MC.

I think if someone is going into it looking for an exact replacement for a T, they will most likely be disappointed, as they're all different. That's what I was trying to do at first ("why can't you be more like him?") But going into with an open mind, thinking that even if someone is very different, you could still learn from and be helped by them--that would have a greater chance of success.

The other thing is, starting with a new T, you wouldn't have the trust built up. They won't know you well, you won't know them well. So there will likely be some conflicts and missteps (by the T) and misunderstanding. It takes time to build a relationship.

That being said, if it feels completely wrong from the start and/or you keep having similar conflicts and/or you just don't feel the T gets you at all (and various other issues that interfere with the ability to work with them), then it's likely time to move on. And that's the sense I'm getting from your posts, East.

I made my posting when I was drunk and feeling hurt from my recent therapy ending. I was looking for a fight and I aimed at you. I was not being friendly. Your enthusiasm and optimism regarding therapy rubbed me up the wrong way. You make reasonable points, no matter how I don't want to hear them.

I get it and you do make a valid point that it isn't easy or or always in someone's best interests to look for another t. It takes a lot of courage and that's something I didn't make clear in my response to East so your perspective is a good reminder to me of the other side of the issue.

No current T didn't know ex-T. I think it feels too weird because talking about that relationship and how connected I felt, it's like I'm telling current T that she isn't good enough. She might be if I can persevere with her enough to give her that chance.

It may have been a mistake going straight into another therapy relationship so soon after ex-T stopping work, but because the ending with her was quite traumatic and we didn't have a proper closure session, I just had a meltdown and needed support.

I thought I could combine the bereavement issue with the other issues and process it all with this T, but because I'm finding that difficult I decided to look for specific bereavement support elsewhere. However the two organisations I approached have a strict rule about having been out of therapy for two months before beginning work with them. My current T said she is willing to do the bereavement stuff with me, but if I wanted to go elsewhere we would have to stop working together whilst I was doing that other work.

It's ironic that I work in that field, but can't get bereavement support unless I stop therapy.

If ex-T had died before I sought out another therapist, I could have dealt with the bereavement stuff first and then moved on to the rest of it; but because she just stopped working and I was abruptly left without support, I felt the need to find another T quickly. Once I'd done that we started getting to know each other and processing other things. Then ex-T died. I didn't expect to be so badly affected by it as we'd already stopped working together 5 months previously. Perhaps this would be a good thing to explain, to have a conversation about with current T.



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Current T has been on time and no interruptions to our sessions since I told her how disruptive it was for me. We've had to do some work in repairing the therapy relationship since, but are getting there. The one thing I'm struggling with though, is opening up fully to her about my feelings over the loss of ex-T.

Given that I've been told it isn't right or ethical to receive bereavement support at the same time as conventional therapy with two different therapists, I've taken the decision to approach someone else for that support and keep quiet about it with current T. I just hope it doesn't backfire on me. Whilst I kind of understand how it could be confusing, my thought is that if I can keep to the boundary of what we are talking about, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Then after waiting for nearly a month for an appointment with this person, she went off sick with covid.... She has just made contact again with me today asking if I still want an appointment. I'm hoping she will be available next week as my regular T is off and we don't have a session anyway.

I just need to get this stuff out of my head re ex-T and process her loss with someone who isn't my current T. I don't think that's unreasonable....but would appreciate anyone else's thoughts on it.

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Feeling quite anxious about this session with bereavement-T. Partly because it's already been cancelled twice in the last month, partly because of home circumstances which may mean I will get interrupted during the call, and partly because my brain is going into overdrive. The what ifs...

What if it doesn't help in the way I'm hoping it will? What if it does help but she isn't available on a regular basis?
What if we decide I need more than one session; how do I pause things with current-T so that I can continue with bereavement-T, in a way that allows me to go back to current-T when I need to?

I know I should stop thinking' what if' and just see what happens, it might pan out in a completely different way. It is just my brain's way of trying to remain in control.

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There are many people who opt to see 2 therapists at the same time, usually to work with one t on something and the other t on something else.

Agreed. If the one is specifically for bereavement, I would think you could see both without it being a conflict. You wouldn't technically need to tell either T about the other if you don't want to. If it's a financial issue that you can't see both at once, that's a bit different, but maybe you could do each every other week, like on opposite weeks, something like that.