[Mouse_]

Is it in the actually feeling the feelings that arise? Say for instance you are angry, and you express the anger and then what? how does that get healed?

[Perna]

My understanding of it is that the transference is being angry at your adopted mother and taking it out on your T, thinking/feeling she's rejecting you. I think it gets worked out as you slowly separate out that your adopted mother is not your T, catch yourself (or initially are caught by your T and recognize what she says is true) when you're in the midst of a transference situation and then slowly cease to make that "mistake" and your anger at your adopted mother rejecting you all those years ago doesn't matter as much because that's not happening now and you stay more in the now now, LOL.

[Mouse_]

ok perna, I like the now, now LOL but what about if its because T has done somethign and you feel angry at her? isn't it then about her?

[Perna]

Yes, but that's not transference. However, if T does something and you are angry at her, check the degree of anger and if it is appropriate to the situation? My T said my "thermostat" was broken :-) because I felt/reacted out of proportion to what a situation deserved/needed, reacting the same to minor problems and major ones.

If you're angry at T for leaving you and not being there for a week, eventually you will have other things you are doing in your own life and will actually be relieved (if you can believe it :-) that you have the week off too to do other things. It will be like school hols even though you like school.

[Perna]

I forgot. Too, you can have both transference and being angry at your T for something she's done at the same time. Loads of fun trying (not always possible) to separate out multiple feelings you're having at once but I'm sure you've had more than one feeling at once; same thing having transference from your adopted mother to T and actual problems with T. T will help separate it out, the actual anger for her mistake she'll be fine with, and help you and her deal with it and then settle down and discuss it and any transference like anything/everything else.

[Mouse_]

I thought I was doing ok last week, then its like delayed reaction, today was the day to seek revenge on her. Man I stuck me finger up at her and told her to %#@&#! off and called her the another bad word! then the tears came and I told her this is the last time I sit there belittling myself to which she replied, its not belittling yourself its feeling, pppfttt is that all she can say..I said I reveal myself and expose myself and for what? she replied, you feel its pointless? I said yeah its pointless, and I want you to hurt like I Hurt and then I can sit and watch you wriggle...then it was right near the end and I said it looks like for the moment you are the wicked witch and she siad with that %#@&#! grin she gets, well the moment part sounds positive!.....why do I feel so dam angry? why can't I see the break for what it was? I dont like this rage I %#@&#! hate it!

[Perna]

You can't see the break for what it was because you've had a lifetime of breaks from your mother and adopted mother and all that got kept in.

I've told you how when I complained about my husband once, my T said, "Now how long did his mother know him? And how long did his wife know him?" The clincher being, "And how long have you known him?" because I'd only gotten my hands on him a couple years earlier versus 45 years/the rest of his life. It doesn't happen any faster than weight loss I don't think, despite how fast one can gain weight. I think they're in a conspiracy together.

[Mouse_]

Yeah I know "sigh", anyways thanks Dr Perna, I guess I'm still angry and running on fast Now i'm caught between wanting to hit T and wanting to love her and the split in that is painful!! aarrghhh

[Mouse_]

You know what, I think I understand murders that little bit more. Watching some news items over the wkend where 3 men have been found guilty of seperate crimes, unyet crimes that are similar and in one instance one of the murders was abandoned by his mother...I'm not justifying murder, but isnt this transferrence taken to its extreme?

Well if you were actually mad at something that T did, parts of that can still be transference. It can be a reminder of the way certain people have acted in the past, or you can be responding to the anger in a way that has been a pattern for you in the past. Furthermore, you may be scared that the result of the anger will be the same as it was in the past. I believe the healing takes place when you are able to express than anger openly and you learn that your T isn't going anywhere-- she isn't going to repeat the patterns that you are used to in your past. You can begin how to learn how to get angry in a healthy way. That anger doesn't always have to be pathological, even if that was how it may have been trated in the past.

[chaotic13]

((Mouse))

Its sounds like are in a very painful situation. Sounds like to are aware of where the strong feelings are coming and that they are transference. Unfortunately that knowledge is not helping to reduce the pain, stop the transfer, and develop a new stimuli--response reaction.

Perna suggesting like emotional reconditioning? To dissolve this negative association and replace it with a positive one requires repeated exposures that result in a positive outcome until you construct a new positive/neural association? This does not sound fun!

[MissCharlotte]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I thought I was doing ok last week, then its like delayed reaction, today was the day to seek revenge on her. Man I stuck me finger up at her and told her to %#@&#! off and called her the another bad word!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Mouse, were you at my session too? I dropped a few F bombs myself and told T that therapy was ********.

Yeah the rage is frightening for me as well. I think that, in the transference, noticing the rage is the first thing. Then the trick is noticing where that rage may have originated and how that rage is used in the present, how others react to it, how much energy it takes to control it, etc.

The healing can take place in the context of our present day relationships including the relationship with T where we can practice.

I know for me, that I realize I don't really know the difference between rage and anger. I am so good at hiding the rage. Or at least until now I was.

(((((hugs)))))

((((((Mouse)))))),
Rage is infuriating, isn't it? I wish I could give you some sound advice but I have the same problem with anger and haven't yet come up with an answer or solution. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. Take care.

[Mouse_]

I cried so much last night..haven't cried that much since I had a misscarriage nearly 16yrs ago now....I wrote and cried and wanted something so bad to take the pain away...gradually I think it became clear to me that I have a REAL GREAT fear of being left....I've known this intellectually of course, but never ever experienced the pain caused by this....I think the major thing that was behind this was the moment I was told I was adopted...it wasn't done well and I was only 5 and how ever I reacted to it back then must have been split of from my awareness....after that I have lived life angry because I had lost the abilty to take having a mother for granted, I had lost the my world as I knew up until that point, I had lost the ablity to trust the world, I had just lost, and T going away last week to me was more reminders that at any moment she could drop the bombshell that she isn't going to be here much longer hence I'd lost "us" yesterday, just like I'd lost how it was with my adoptive mother before I was told, how she couldn't handle dealing with my loss and turned away from me and I couldn't handle dealing with it and turned away too, we never repaired our relationship, it was never worked through, knowing this last night I Had the urge to want to work through back when it happened but knowing as a 5 yrold I didn't have the words to do this, it was never the same, I was never the same. I also realised that all the "Nice" transferences I have really are just as illusional as the "rage", that I finally got to see both extremes and I felt I'd lost the abilty to rest on the "nice" transferences too. I was shocked I think at how the humanbeing can be a saint and a sinner and never have to take a step to do this. I could be a murderer, my illusions of who-I-am were wacked by this revelation. I really was almost pyschotic with transference yesterday, I was loosing the abilty to keep hold of the reality that T is a T and not the wicked witch, I really had to struggle to get her back, to see some reality within this maddness. I konw now that I have this great fear inside of me, that rage will try and keep from my awareness, who'd have thought fear could be so painful. Last night I really wondered if I could go back to T and go through this again, but I know now that its inside of me whether I return to therapy or not and it will continue to be triggered in my day to day relationships in a drip fed way and that is almost as painful to contemplate now so I knwo I've got to go back. got to exorcise this crap!...I was reading "On learning from the patient" last night and before I had read it but never experienced this huge amount of rage and pain in such a short time and really disregarded the book as I was in the "couldn't happen to me" thinking, well I opened it at a place where a woman was going through excruiciating transference and I thoiught, oh it is happening to me. But I really felt I could have been capable of murder with the rage I had in me yesterday. Today? I feel better, more at peace again and more aware of what a humanbeing is capable of whether they know it or not!

[MissCharlotte]

Well said Mouse. Well said. Thank you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
in a drip fed way

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I really get this because it is what happens when we try to contain the rage and anger. It just sort of leaks out, eh?

Peace. Glad you are feeling better.

[MissCharlotte]

Well said Mouse. Well said. Thank you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
in a drip fed way

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I really get this because it is what happens when we try to contain the rage and anger. It just sort of leaks out, eh?

Peace. Glad you are feeling better.

[MissCharlotte]

Well said Mouse. Well said. Thank you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
in a drip fed way

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I really get this because it is what happens when we try to contain the rage and anger. It just sort of leaks out, eh?

Peace. Glad you are feeling better.

[MissCharlotte]

Well said Mouse. Well said. Thank you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
in a drip fed way

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I really get this because it is what happens when we try to contain the rage and anger. It just sort of leaks out, eh?

Peace. Glad you are feeling better.

[MissCharlotte]

Well said Mouse. Well said. Thank you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
in a drip fed way

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I really get this because it is what happens when we try to contain the rage and anger. It just sort of leaks out, eh?

Peace. Glad you are feeling better.

[MissCharlotte]

Well said Mouse. Well said. Thank you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
in a drip fed way

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I really get this because it is what happens when we try to contain the rage and anger. It just sort of leaks out, eh?

Peace. Glad you are feeling better.