[sunrise]

Earlier today I had a two hour session with my H, the child consultant in our divorce (a therapist herself), and our communications coach, who is also my T. I guess one could say the session went OK. We talked about a number of difficult issues, such as our kids' exposure to my H's use of pornography. We were unable to get to all the issues, so we'll be having one more meeting.

I feel depessed after that meeting, very down. It went OK, I guess. In some ways, the meeting was quite boring to me. What does it even mean to think this meeting was boring? These are really critical issues, and I feel bored?

Now I'm just depressed. I tried very hard to keep my own issues out of the discussion, as the focus was the kids. I want what's best for the kids, for example, being protected from my H's porn, but I have my own issues and feelings about that, which I had to shunt aside. I think back to the many times I tried to have serious discussions with my H when we were still together, such as about how many freedoms to allow the kids, how to help them do better in school, how to discipline them, etc.--typical parenting stuff. These discussions were always in the bedroom, he would be sitting at his computer, and watching porno movies when I tried to have these talks. Sometimes I would be right in front of him, looking at his computer, and he would have his back to the screen, and I would have to try to focus on what he was saying while behind him graphic sexual movies were playing. The whole issue is a hard one for me and brings back many memories of these hurtful and disrespectful episodes, as well as others. I think I did a pretty good job of keeping "me" out of the child discussion today. That's my problem, my baggage. And we did establish some guidelines for the kids.

I just found it all depressing. Maybe having to put aside my feelings has resulted in feeling down. Stuffing feelings inside equals feeling depressed? Depression fosters numbness, which is protective? I don't know. Unfortunately, we have to have another meeting like this. Not a good day.

[Brian37]

[BalishBun]

wouldnt this world be a whole lot different if there was no porn?

[chaotic13]

Sunrise, I think it was good that you could distance yourself from this issue while in the meeting. If you really think about your response during the meeting do you think you were really bored? Or was it something else? Could your boredom be a front for something else?

I hope you were very clear and forceful about your concerns with exposing your kids to this content. I hope that through these meetings you can establish clear rule that he will follow.

Now regarding YOU. I think you need to vent your feeling somewhere. I definitely get the dreaded depressed feelings when things happen and I leave them trapped inside. I wish I could invite you out for a beer.

I would be very outraged if my husband did that. I know others may have different views; but I would view his watching porn in my presence as disrespectful. I know this is something that couples share and that totally OK with me--IF it's a shared thing. However, if it is something he enjoys but I found offensive, then it would NOT be OK for him to bring it into our bedroom. I would be even more enraged if he couldn't turn it off while I was trying to have an important conversation with him. That to me is worse than being shushed because a football game was on.

Sunrise, how do you really feel about his viewing porn while you were trying to talk with him? Let it out!

((((((((((((((Sunny)))))))))))))))))
I hope you start to feel better soon!

[ECHOES]

sunny, I'm sorry you're feeling depressed

A couple of things came to mind as I was reading your post. I wonder if, in your worries, you feel the meeting may not be enough to protect your kids from the pornography. And maybe thinking back to the times you were forced to be exposed to it while your H was incosiderate and unresponsive to your forced exposure is your worry that your kids will be put in that same scenario.

It sounds like your depression about this is something to explore more. Is it repressed anger? Helplessness? Or even just one thing too many at the moment, the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back; your depression is a way of saying this is all so overwhelming; so much to do, so many concerns, so many involved, such a long process.

Perhaps you need some 'sunny' time.

[sunrise]

Thanks Brian, BalishBun, mckell, Soliaree, and ECHOES. I really appreciate your support.

I think all the talk of pornography and my recalling those awful memories of trying to talk to him while he watched porn, brought back to mind the awful, trapped and hopeless feelings of being stuck in a miserable marriage. And during that time I was depressed, so maybe my memories just brought back my feelings from back then too. Things have been better since he moved out. It's like the porn talk was a trigger for bringing back all the associated feelings of the time.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mckell wrote:
I would be very outraged if my husband did that.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">mckell, I'm not very good at doing outrage. I admire you.

Boredom: I think I was drifting away. I seemed not engaged in the conversation, not very attentive. Mind kept wandering. The discussion could not hold me. Or maybe it forced me away.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I wish I could invite you out for a beer.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Thank you. Me too! Do you live near me?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Sunrise, how do you really feel about his viewing porn while you were trying to talk with him?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Sad, hopeless, depressed, frustrated, trapped, disrespected, angry, scared (for my kids).

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I wonder if, in your worries, you feel the meeting may not be enough to protect your kids from the pornography.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">ECHOES, on one level, I think that he still doesn't get it. One comment he made was that kids can access this stuff themselves on the Internet, so what does it matter if they see it on his computer? T called him on that.

I wish I was seeing my T soon. I need him.

[tulips30]

Gosh sunny, I can't tell you how much I admire your ability to be able to separate your t. in your mind without going nuts. I know you have discussed this before, but I was thinking how hard it would be if I had to "share" my t. in this way. I think I would feel so threatened &amp; possessive of our relationship that I would lose it. You should give yourself so much credit for being able to handle all of these different roles so effectively and maturely. You truly have been amazing throughout this process in keeping your children's welfare in the forefront despite everything you have been through.

tulips


PS: I'd LOVE to join you guys for a beer!!

[jurplesman]

Hi sunrise,

If your husband was watching live pornography in front of you whilst discussing the "education" of your children, this could not be regarded as normal behaviour. It is well known that men who compulsively watch pornography may be depressed themselves, where pornography is a kind of escape into another world: "the grass is greener around the corner". I don't know whether he is aware of his depression, because one can be depressed without being aware of it. If so, he could be treated for it.

Please read:

Depression is a Nutritional Disorder

and

Sexual Abuse and Treatment

[Kiya]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
tulips30 said:
You should give yourself so much credit for being able to handle all of these different roles so effectively and maturely. You truly have been amazing throughout this process in keeping your children's welfare in the forefront despite everything you have been through.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I AGREE!!!!! You've handled this whole thing very well.
Kudos!!!
Kiya

[chaotic13]

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Sunrise said:
..brought back to mind the awful, trapped and hopeless feelings of being stuck in a miserable marriage

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I hate when this happens. When I realize all the stuff I tolerate, I then start thinking, WHY do I put up with that? What is wrong with me?

Disrespected... that's how I think I would feel if my husband did that. I think porn objectifies women (and men for that matter). I often feel like just an object to men and I don't like feeling that way. Some blowup doll or some TV character who is simply there to get off on. If my husband was viewing this in my presents then it would be like he was telling me, 'hey your not a good enough object to turn me on.' 'I need to go out and look at other objects to get off on.'

I said I would be outraged, that doesn't necessarily mean that I would directly show that outrage. I use to be very good at being angry, but some how not so much anymore, I seem to let lot of things go unchallenged in my marriage for some reason. Anger like most of my emotions, I keep a pretty tight grip on how I express them. I will tell you however, the beast does make an appearance when I feel like a sex object. Viewing porn while I was trying to have a serious conversation would definitely bring out the beast!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I think that he still doesn't get it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
He probably will never "get it". That is why you need to be very clear about what rules you think should be in place regarding your children's exposure to this material. I would hope that you would be able to take legal action against him if he breeches the rules that are set.

I hope also that you can find ways of sharing your views on this content with your children so they understand why you don't think it is appropriate for them to view it, even if their dad thinks its OK. Maybe that is something you can talk about with the child specialist. How do you best communicate your values, beliefs, and moral to your children? You would need to do it in a way that doesn't seem like you are attacking your H. I'm not sure how to do that. You are in a very difficult situation, especially since you are raising girls and they are at an age where they are being bombarded with all kinds of mixed messages. (((Sunrise))) I can definitely see how challenging this situation is. I'm sure you will find a way to deal with this situation-- Make sure you don't shutdown and let it overwhelm you in silence.

[Perna]

You may have felt bored and now down because nothing has really changed (as evidenced by your husband's idiot comment on the kids accessing porn themselves). When we go through a process, it's nice to think we're getting somewhere, getting something "done". But you were already "divorced" (or at least separated) in your relationship and you're getting actually divorced now. It's like having a huge weight you're moving from "there" to "here" now, so what?

Maybe like with your T session last time where everything was humming along and you thought of termination, you now are beginning to think outside the divorce process box, outside moving the weight from one place to another.

What's next? You going back to school? Getting a job? Starting a business? You're going to be "free" soon of the weight moving business. Are you terrified or have a million dreams you hardly remember that you put on hold and have to re-access or what?

[Kiya]

"I would hope that you would be able to take legal action against him if he breeches the rules that are set."

Thing is - how are you gonna know if you're not there? Is it that far a stone's throw away from having the kids become sex objects? that would really scare me.
kiya

[sunrise]

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tulips30 said:
I was thinking how hard it would be if I had to "share" my t. in this way. I think I would feel so threatened & possessive of our relationship that I would lose it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Thanks for your support, tulips. I don't have a problem really with having T be at our legal meetings. He has a very different non-therapist role there. It has been more of a problem when he goes into coach mode at my therapy sessions when I want him to be just my T (T, where are you?). Also, when my H and I were doing couples therapy last year with him, it was hard. I would love to have a beer with you too! We should get a gang together...

jurplesman, you got it, my H is not a normal guy! I don't believe my H's pornography habit is related to depression. He does take ADs and says they have helped him with his anger. He may feel entitled to porn, multiple sex partners outside of the marriage, etc. perhaps because he is a narcissist. That would also explain why he doesn't consider my feelings when watching the porn in front of me. He is the center of his universe--no one else exists. Interestingly, there is some anecdotal evidence that "selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors, such as Prozac, aggravate narcissists' grandiosity and lack of social inhibition."

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I hate when this happens. When I realize all the stuff I tolerate, I then start thinking, WHY do I put up with that? What is wrong with me?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">That could have been me writing that Mckell. Truthfully, there really is something wrong with me that I put up with so much for so long. That is changing for me now, I am getting divorced. But I still want to get to the root of my pathology through therapy. I really do not want to keep making these mistakes...

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
What's next? You going back to school? Getting a job? Starting a business? You're going to be "free" soon of the weight moving business. Are you terrified or have a million dreams you hardly remember that you put on hold and have to re-access or what?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Very good questions, Perna. I want to work on this stuff when I can get some breathing space from putting out forest fires. I am thinking a lot about my job and what I will do with my career. I really need to earn more money, but yet I want to do something I like too. And I would find it hard to totally switch careers and give up all the expertise I have accummulated in this line of work. Not sure what I will do....

Today was another meeting, this one with lawyer and financial advisor. It was so stressful. I started crying twice. I hate hate hate hate hate that. Sometimes I just feel like I cannot do this anymore. Later, I received a message to schedule part 2 of the child meeting, but just didn't feel up to it so soon so I made some excuse. Maybe I'll feel up to it later. Is it possible to "fail" divorce? I wish I could just drop this course and take an "incomplete" on my report card.

[chaotic13]

(((Sunrise))) Hang in there! There will be better days ahead, your working too hard for there not to be.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Is it possible to "fail" divorce? I wish I could just drop this course and take an "incomplete" on my report card.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Not an option, you need to get away from this man.