I typed this up after I wrote the first one. Of course, somehow it didn't get posted. I need to add "deleted" to the other post.

This is how it went.

<font color="black"> T: I wanted to let you know that I am angry with you about what you did last week. I am angry that you did it here in such a way that it affected my staff and employees. How does that make you feel?</font>

(Last session he told me that he did not like what I did, which made me feel horrible. But that was fine.)

<font color="blue"> ME: It makes me feel like total %#@&#!. I didn't realize you were so protective of your staff. I apologize for being such an impulsive idiot.</font>

<font color="black"> T: I really didn't like the fact that you did it here at my place of business(or something to that affect). Don't do it again. </font>

<font color="blue"> ME: Where would you rather me do it? </font>

<font color="black"> T: I can't stop you from doing it if you want to do it. </font>

<font color="blue"> ME: What will happen if I do it here again?</font>

<font color="black"> T: (silence)</font>

<font color="blue">ME: You'll Terminate me, won't you? %#@&#! SAY IT!</font>

<font color="black">T: No, I'm not going to say that.</font>

<font color="blue">ME: I did it for several reasons. Yes, I wanted you to know how %#@&#! painful it is to tell someone you love them (not romantic love btw) and have them treat your emotions like they mean nothing. I wanted you to feel my pain.</font>

T: You mean helpless? I felt that.</font>

[b<font color="blue">]ME: Your helpless feeling is not there now, but mine still is. It never goes away. So you only got a glimpse. </font>

<font color="blue">ME: Another reason: I'm sick to death of constantly fighting. I did it because I was just plain flat out enraged and needed to escape. </font>

[b]<font color="blue">ME: I was really hurt when I asked if I could take the hippo and you said just make sure you bring it back. (I was in his office, had already taken pills and cut myself) Then, the next session you asked where it was. Did you think I was trying to gain power over you by stealing it or something? I really wanted it so I could hold it in the ER room.[b] </font>

[b]<font color="black">T: It was a contract we made. You asked if you could take it and I said just make sure you return it.[b]</font>

I think my affect showed anger the whole time. However, I was and am devastated. I haven't yet been able to cry. Where is the empathic T I used to have? Yes, I'm jealous that he protected his staff, I want him to protect me. I told him this and he seemed to find in humorous.

He asked me to sign a release form so he could talk to the other T about the situation and see if she thinks she should come in or not. I asked him directly if he was dumping me and he said no. Now, I could care less.

I have finally reached the point where I truly hate him. I emailed him and terminated. I told him to cancel all of my appointments. I said it is weird how he can be detached when it comes to good emotions, but it is okay to be angry at me. Umm, try looking behind the behaviors? %#@&#! him.

I ended on a funny note: I said, "You can use my cancelled sessions to have sessions with your staff to combat the PTSD that I caused to your staff."

[chaotic13]

(((Soliaree )))

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((((( Soliaree )))))))))))

I fear saying this in case you reconcile with your T.....

.......but in my opinion, he seemed like a jerk and really seemed to hurt your feelings.

It's a miracle. He actually replied to my termination email. It was short and to the point. He said that if I called tomorrow he would return my call. I have no idea what to do. I do not want to go see the de-empathized T that I saw today ever again. He's going to bring up how I can't stand it when people are angry with me. But how can he be angry with me when I was so clearly hurt, so clearly upset? How can he be angry with a decision I made during that time? I just don't understand.
He needs to go buy a jug of empathy because today he was on empty.

[tulips30]

(((sol)))
Is this the 1st time you have ever seriously considered termination?
I know your feelings have to be all over the place right now. Please be gentle with yourself.

I wish I knew exactly the "right" thing to say right now. But, I don't...........

tulips

Thanks for the hugs tulips! Today I was dead set against stepping foot into that office again. But now, well, who knows?
I'm so angry at him. I sent him two illegal emails detailing my issues. Two boundary violations. One is for the HIPPO!!! Wooo-Hooo! The other is for his lack of empathy!!!!!

[Brian37]

I think youtr T has some issues with that friggin hippo

Yeah. He is really making the HIPPO an issue. How %#@&#! therapeutic, huh? Well, he was the big man as always. He won.

When I got up to leave, I turned around and the HIPPO was sitting alone on the couch. And I had to leave him with that unempathic beast. How will I ever get over it? LOL

[Christina86]

Oh yeeesh... Its weird, I feel sorry for the hippo. And for you. (((((((((((Soliaree)))))))))))))) wow... thats a heckuva bad appt.

[Kiya]

yeah the whole things is really confusing.... i am wondering what the real issues are underneath all this

that whole "don't do it here again" thing.... i would be surprised if that was the first time that had happened (lord knows i've thought of it before). and the anger reaction is way blown up.... anger is always fear, right? so what was it that he was afraid of? that you had really seriously hurt yourself? that it reminded him of someone else who may have done that and didn't fair as well?
this hippo thing - was that an out? why talk "contracts" in a crisis?!
something's missing. sadly, you may never get to know. it is just so sad because this is a totally different picture (that we are getting) from the person we saw before - of him. Hard to reconcile those two images.
best to you!!!!

Kiya

[MissCharlotte]

((Soliaree))

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I asked him directly if he was dumping me and he said no. Now, I could care less.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't get this. He said he isn't dumping you, so why did you dump him?

I hope you call him tomorrow. You two can work this through. It's painful and you are in a fragile place, but I would hate to see you without support right now.

Peace

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
it is just so sad because this is a totally different picture (that we are getting) from the person we saw before - of him. Hard to reconcile those two images.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

This is exactly my problem! I just don't know.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I don't get this. He said he isn't dumping you, so why did you dump him?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

MissC, it makes perfect sense to me. When I asked if he was dumping me, I still idealized him. I dumped him after he did all of that @#$@ - it made me feel like I hated him.

I know he felt angry, but aren't those strong feelings things that he should work out with himself? I'm kind of in a fragile state at this time and it was devastating. He needs to take his own advice and sit with his anger. I'll bet he just couldn't do it, could he?

[sunrise]

soliaree, you have had a hard time with your T recently. I don't understand what it's all about and I hope you can talk to him today and get greater clarity.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I dumped him after he did all of that @#$@

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I was struck by your comments about his anger. He got angry at you and now you are dumping him. Clearly, he has something going on, but I also think to my own relationship with my T and how I consider it to be mutualistic (that is a principle of his therapeutic approach--client-centered, humanistic psych, etc.). There is give and take, sharing, self-disclosure, etc. And there have been a couple of times I expressed anger about something to T and he was very accepting and told me it was OK to be angry at him (or at something else in his presence). He accepted that part of me and didn't reject me because of it--because I was too unpleasant or demanding or *****y or unreasonable or whatever. I really appreciate his acceptance. In a mutualistic, therapeutic relationship, what is the client response if the T gets angry? If it were me, would I accept his anger, and not reject him for having those feelings? I think I would. And he has been a little angry at me before and it was not a problem for us.

I'm really just musing here, I know your situation is not mine, Soliaree. It just struck me that you were rejecting your T because he displayed anger, but yet the client is supposed to be accepted for expressing anger. I know it isn't a completely equal relationship, but I'm just struggling with something there. In a mutualistic relationship, how accepting would I be?

[Kiya]

(of course we're all just living here through what you type and have even a less clear picture of the situation than you do) but it feels like a "house rule" got broken - one you didn't know about. One you're being punished for when the rules were not clear.
Maybe it can still be solved and salvaged.... with clearer rules on both sides.

(((((((hugs))))))
Kiya

[Shellbe]

Soliaree,
I'm sorry to read about your experience. The bottom line sounds like you are hurting immensely. Enough to show it to him in a physical way b/c your words weren't showing it urgently enough. And it sounds like your T wanted to set some strict boundaries and took the risk of losing and hurting you in the process........

I wish i knew the right thing to say, but i have learned that experiences in this arena usually have much less to do with the Therapist than they do with us. What relationship are you repeating here? Are you trying to guarantee that he will reject you?
Can you come clean, tell him your intentions behind it all, your need to feel cared for, special? That is such a normal, human emotion and when we don't get it early on, it's a big, empty, gaping hole to try to fill.

I am in the process of realizing that I keep repeating my past bad relationships at times. Reaching out for attention, sometimes improperly, then being rejected, and falling back into the routine of "I'm too much." After repeated times, I am learning that I will repeat this until I learn how to care for myself and this is hard. Certain actions seem to trigger T's to show their boundaries, to lose the unconditional regard for a moment and it sounds like you touched him in a tender spot.

If you do go thru with the termination, keep talking about it. I try to do this in my T so i won't repeat the same relationship i had with one particular therapist. It feels good to tell my feelings about it and to recognize where i was limited.

I don't agree with the hippo thing at all. It seems cruel that he asked for it back and hurtful. What the :I*^:^%* is the big deal if you have a stuffed animal of his? I wonder if he thought you were using it as reinforcement for him being there in the ER after you harmed yourself and he thinks it's negative attention?

If that was so, he should have explained all of that to you. Sometimes we just have to start over. Keep us posted on how it's going. I hope you feel better and really spend some time caring for yourself........peace

Hmm...

I thought I would add another 2 cents worth.

Someone said that this is a "mutalistic relationship." Actually, it depends on the type of therapy your T is doing and what his training is. Some schools of thought maintain that the relationship is NOT mutalistic and that T should control his counter-transferance reactions.

Personally, I think T has the right to get upset. BUT, I don't think he has the right to DISPLAY his anger the way he apparently did. Once my T said "Rip, I am angry because you violated boundary X." Then we discussed it. T did not yell, make me give back anything, embarrass me, shame me, etc. T set an example of proper anger management.

I probably would have done the same thing as you did and QUIT. Personally, if you have had enough anger displayed to you over the years by people who "cared about you" then you don't need anymore .

I hope you are feeling better and taking care of yourself.

[april15]

What if the hippo was a gift from his child? His grandchild? Another patient? Why is it so awful that he asked for it back? No one knows the significance to him.

It seems there is an interpretation or assumption being made that because he asked for the hippo back, that means he thinks the hippo is more important than solariee. I think there are possibly other reasons he wanted it back.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Riptide said:
Someone said that this is a "mutalistic relationship." Actually, it depends on the type of therapy your T is doing and what his training is. Some schools of thought maintain that the relationship is NOT mutalistic and that T should control his counter-transferance reactions.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I was the one who mentioned mutualistic therapeutic relationships (see above) and I was very careful to say this was in client-centered, humanistic psychology and not that this necessarily applied to Soliaree's case. I don't know what kind of therapy Soli and her T do so I wanted to make sure I didn't suggest that was the case for her. Sorry for the confusion, Riptide.

[april15]

Sorry soliaree, I just read your other thread where you already discussed with T if there was a significance with the hippo.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

My T did not yell at me, he just said, "I am very angry with you for doing what you did. I did not like the fact that you did it here and how it negatively impacted my staff."

I talked to him on Friday by phone. He said,"So, you're terminating?" I said, "I don't know." He said it was a decision I had to make. I ended up not terminating.

What I hate is that I don't want to terminate, I guess because of my attachment. But, I also feel like I'm so desperate and that he doesn't care whether I terminate or not.

I think he was also using telling me that he was angry as a therapeutic tool. I hate when people get angry with me and he knows that. Maybe it is because I can't hold two emotions at once, so I think that if he is angry, that he hates me, and that any good feelings will never come back. I don't know.

I feel so alone right now. It's like I desperately need him to be nurturing and he is totally refusing. This is totally devastating. I can't go to work because I am so emotionally drained.

On the phone, I so badly wanted him to say, "I'll understand if you terminate, but I would rather you not." Just something. But he won't give an inch. Is this torture going to lead to me being stronger because it doesn't feel like it.

And I emailed him, which he banned me from doing earlier. Now I'm waiting for my punishment on Tuesday.

This is killing me. I hate it.

[krazibean]

ohh sol. i know what you mean. when you so desperatly want t's nurture and comfort they seem so cold and distant. why do they do that? it feel so lonely and hard. they prob trying to teach us that we won't get attention from negative behavior. it's so hard i know. keep holding on, this will pass, and when it does, you will have the biggest therapy high ever and you'll love him again. hang in there.

[Kiya]

honey, he can't tell you to continue or not - he can't even tell you he wants you to continue. t's can't influence ppl in that manner - it has to be the client's decision. =( i know it totally sucks.
remember (one thing i have to work on also), you cannot get in trouble - you're an adult. only kids can get into trouble. adults can break laws or anger ppl, but they can't get punished like the kid/adult thing that this brings up feelings around. i get into that mindset, too. =(
breathe... remember that piece from another lifetime about "there is nothing more that you need to do - just breathe".
Holding you,
Kiya

[Shellbe]

i agree with what everyone plus what you are saying, sol. It's an example of a grown up relationship, with its ups and downs. You are right, you have to view him as a little gray now, not all good; not all bad.

He can't tell you to terminate but if he wanted to get rid of you or felt he couldn't effectively help you, he would have referred you at that point when you asked. Keep talking to him. It doesn't make sense sometimes, when we are met with harsh, strict boundaries that feel like punishment. But it sounds like he's trying to find the way with you, he's human, he's not going to say it right all the time. Forgive him so that you can learn to forgive yourself. I so hate these types of experiences and they can seem so cold but it always turns me back to myself. One thing i remember that helps is that "I don't have to act so quickly, so impulsively. It's not going to hurt to wait another second.....I want to hurt myself, but I'm just going to do nothing for a little bit longer." I think it's like your T saying that all you have to do is breathe.....
It's so hard to get out of our own way sometimes. Maybe the best action is non-action. Sit with it. Even though it feels like torture, you are learning and healing.

Know you are not alone. Thinking of you.....peace