[sidony]

Seriously. I can't. I keep going to group therapy and over and over and over I'm unable to share anything. And I rarely say much when other people are talking. The other folks in my group are really exasperated with me, talking about how it's been a year and I still don't want to talk. They hate the way I don't reveal myself, but when I'm there I'm never able to think of anything to say. And my outside-group problems seem like they would take forever to explain, so I don't try to get any help with those. If I start talking, I just feel horribly self-conscious and like most of what I'm saying is crap. I mean, I'm not lying or anything, but what I'm saying is usually being given the wrong amount of emphasis or something (if that makes sense). I go away feeling depressed. Am I just in the wrong medium?

Blah,
Sidony

[EJ711]

Sidony,

Are you in private therapy? It sounds like you are too shy for this group. Do you feel like you have anything in common with the people in your group?

EJ

[sidony]

Hey! Yes, I'm in private therapy also with the same T who runs the group. He wants me to keep trying, but it seems like that's always the case, we're just having the same conversation over and over again.

Depressing.

Sidony

[Pingu]

Hi Sidony,

I'm pretty much the same as yourself. It's difficult enough for me just to talk to someone privately, never mind in a group and particularly when there's a feeling or pressure on me to say something. Are you being pushed into doing the group? I don't think it helps if you're forced into it especially if you come away feeling worse. I do feel a pressure while in a group and panic inwardly. I can just about deal with maybe 3 other people but then depends on their personalities. If someone is overbearing then I can't say a thing. At times it's not that I don't want to talk, I can't talk. The words get stuck in my throat. I don't know if most of it comes from self-worth. If you feel that what you have to say is worthless then it's not likely you will say it or look like a fool for saying it. But then most of the time while listening to someone else in a group talking I think they are talking crap so maybe you should just join along and see how much crap you can create between you. Next time you are along, make it a competition to see who can talk the most crap. Don't take it seriously. And take a shovel with you, just in case!

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sidony said:
He wants me to keep trying,

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Well, good for your T, but how about you? Could it be that you are not "progressing" in group therapy because you really don't want to be there? Do you (not your T) have goals that you want to work on reaching in group therapy? If not, why are you there? Could it be you are a shy person who does best revealing yourself in a one-on-one format--with a therapist in individual therapy, with a close friend, with a lover. Do we all have to be great at revealing ourselves in public forums? Why?

I think there is a lot of pressure on shy and reserved people to be extroverts in our society. Some of us are introverts and that is an OK way to be too.

A little tale: I am an introvert, somewhat reserved and shy. At least in U.S. society. I once lived for two years in Switzerland, where in general, people are quite reserved. I found that among these people, I was an extrovert! Often, the life of the party, believe it or not. I did not change at all, just the context I was in. And sometimes I felt the Swiss were a little judgmental about my extroversion (as they perceived it). Maybe it's just OK to be the way I am, and let other people take it or leave it.

Sidony, it sounds like the group therapy is supposed to help you to not be so uncomfortable opening up to a group of people. Has your T judged this to be an essential skill? Do you agree with him?

[doubtful]

Hi Sidony,

Reading this I wonder if it's not so much that you are shy--though you might be that--but that you are/feel misunderstood. I have felt this way in groups and group therapy settings. I'm not particularly shy, though I have my moments.

What stood out for me in your post was the concern you had about how your words are being perceived or the way in which you believe your words are being perceived. For me I haven't felt very known by many people. To say something that is misconstrued or that I don't know has been received as intended can be stressful to the point of becoming silencing. It has been helpful for me to work through some of that with my individual T who can validate my need to be seen for who I am and can therefore work with me to diminish some of the anxiety I experience when I worry that I am lying or exaggerating when I am, in reality, just expressing my truth.

I just wanted to say that I hear you. I haven't done group therapy for quite a while now. There are parts of it that are helpful for me and parts that aren't so helpful for me. I'm choosing right now to focus on individual therapy. I hope that as you move forward you find the right balance for you and that you find ways to create room for your truth--whether or not people can hear it and regardless of with whom you choose to share it.

~doubtful

[sidony]

Hey thanks for the responses.

Pingu, I definitely have the problem of words getting stuck in my throat. It would help if I took it less seriously. Even when we're talking about casual stuff, it still seems pretty serious to me somehow. I mean, the last conversation was about dancing, and I still couldn't seem to add much.

Sunrise, I honestly can't figure out if I want to be there or not. My overall goal has always been to learn to be closer to people, but yeah I really meant one-on-one. T's argument is that it's much more difficult to tailor your responses to what you think another person wants to hear in a group setting, and he thinks that's what I do a lot of the time. He's right about that, but I don't suddenly become more "myself" in group. I mostly just clam up and say nothing. But then, sometimes I look forward to going there. I don't know if it's because I like seeing T twice in a week (probably) or if it's just that the whole thing fascinates me. I guess I wish I could be a fly on the wall during group. I guess I want to be some kind of emotional voyeur.

Really interesting about Switzerland! I have a friend who moved to Australia where he was suddenly much more popular than he'd ever been (apparently lots of Australian women like American men). He said his personality did change while he was there and he became much more assertive about dating. But even before he changed, he said he was perceived much differently there. Context is everything I suppose. I wonder what it would be like if I were in a social-anxiety group. I might be far more outgoing if I thought the folks around me were shy. Actually, if I'm around someone who's really shy I tend to talk a lot. It's the context of my group that scares me I guess.

Doubtful, yes I usually feel misunderstood. I blame myself though as I'm unable to articulate when I'm shy. I mean I'll say things that make plenty of sense, but afterward I'll wonder why I said them when they have nothing to do with what I'm thinking. It's like I'm just searching for something to say instead of being able to express whatever's already there. Truth gets inexpressible and stuck in my throat.

On an unrelated note, I'm happy that I have individual therapy later today. I've been really depressed, so much so that I even called T yesterday (which I almost never do between sessions). I didn't reach him though he left messages for me later in the evening. Anyway, I'm hoping to feel better later on.

Thanks for all the responses.

Sidony

[bonaire]

Sidony - look how well you write! I write similar to that, sometimes, but can't ever talk like that either. I'd say you have to have a "runway" to lay out your thougths without stress or pressure that a group can give. The internet is great in that we can communicate like we want to without all the decorations of in-person conversation. More like a soul-to-soul conversation rather than person-to-person.

I get the same stress to talk when talking with my wife or mom. It started when I was young. Only child, grew up with my mom. She was a talker. Lots of words. Not much listening. She would talk and talk and when she stopped, I'd try to say something but she'd continue. Wife and her family are somewhat similar. Mom really didn't "hear me" but rather wanted me to hear her, learn from her words, etc. She talked about the same stuff all the time (stuff that she liked). She couldn't understand things me, as a kid, was into. It was "fluff". Why spend your time on that - when you could be doing better in school. Stuff like that. That helped me build a shy wall around me. I hated that I couldn't start conversations with people - but could be "brought into" conversations and after warming up, give some feedback. You know, the quiet one in the group who didn't want attention. Wife wants me to talk more - and the stress of knowing someone wants you to do something (on demand?) - that's added stress too.

I really have to get over it. My wife and I (14 years last week) aren't getting on very well now. It's mainly about communication. She wants me to converse, talk, lead, etc. I really get stuck and that stinks. Great with my kids but really hurting to get over my "talker's block" with some people. Heck - I even have trouble calling friends to just talk. I rarely do it. I think I feel like my words aren't worth as much as theirs. Gave away my power, I guess.

Maybe when you're in group, you could say "I have a topic, but I need to go at my own pace, give me a moment to work through my thoughts." Asking for space may be a way to clear the road ahead for opening up. That's what I'm going to do with my wife to try to get through some things we recently went through.

[sidony]

Hey Bonaire!

Wow it sounds like we have a lot in common. Yep, I'm many many times better at writing what I feel than saying it. I like your analogy of the runway. And I loved your description of the Internet as a place for "soul-to-soul conversation." I have trouble calling my friends on the phone too. I feel like I'm burdening them or something.

I'm recently in a new relationship and am trying to be much more expressive and talk about issues that upset me. I've found one thing to be really helpful. When I get to an issue that's really difficult for me to talk about, I bring it up initially in email rather than in person. And then my boyfriend (who is much more able to communicate openly than I am) will bring it up back up verbally. And that way I get to lay some foundation first. It helps a lot. I wonder if it would be helpful for you? Just a thought.

Have you been in group therapy yourself before? I wonder if you'd do better than me. I just spent this afternoon's individual therapy talking quite a bit about how I feel about this stuff. If I do quit, I'm going to try to express a few things that I never express first. Will see how it goes.....

Sidony

[MissCharlotte]

Hi Sidony,

Count me in with the writers among us! I have had such a difficult time expressing myself in individual therapy with T but have felt myself getting stronger over the year and a half that we have been together. I don't know how I would do in group.

I also really "get" that part about feeling like what you have to say is crap. It's just so freaking hard. Maybe it isn't you. Maybe this particular group of people aren't a good match for your personality.

Peace

[InsaneMax]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sidony said:
Hey! Yes, I'm in private therapy also with the same T who runs the group. He wants me to keep trying, but it seems like that's always the case, we're just having the same conversation over and over again.

Depressing.

Sidony

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

From what you said before, I would say that you should see a separate T for group, and one for individual therapy. You could also use someone who could be more helpful in private therapy, IMO---maybe this guy isn't it, since you've been seeing him for a year or more with no results. Best of luck mate!

[sidony]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
InsaneMax said:
From what you said before, I would say that you should see a separate T for group, and one for individual therapy. You could also use someone who could be more helpful in private therapy, IMO---maybe this guy isn't it, since you've been seeing him for a year or more with no results. Best of luck mate!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

No no no, that's not what I meant. It's only group therapy where I have trouble making progress! I get a lot out of individual therapy and work on lots of different things there.

The problem with having a different T for group therapy is that I wouldn't go. I only go to group therapy at all because my T runs it, and I have some faith that he might know if it's good for me or not.

I definitely feel like giving up on it pretty often though.

Sidony

[Mouse_]

Sidony, I think I'd feel much like you do in group therapy. I think talking about a common problem in groups is ok, but to begin to reveal who-we-are deep inside is more personal for me. I hope you find the solutjion that works for you!

(((((Sidony))))))),
I really feel for you. I go through times when I feel extremely self-conscious in front of others, then times when I'm a little better. Do you take meds? I started on a stimulant and noticed a reduction in this for some reason.

Can you plan to have your T ask a specific question in the group, one that you can prepare for and practice? Just a thought.

I hope you start feeling better soon! Take care

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sidony said:
The problem with having a different T for group therapy is that I wouldn't go.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Sidony, maybe that is telling you something. Maybe if you had gone to a group run by a different T, you would have tried it for a while, realized it wasn't helpful, and then quit. But because it is your individual T, maybe you are feeling some sort of loyalty to him so you won't quit even when that may be the best thing, or you stick it out for a year just to please him. Or something. If you are only going to group because your T is running it, maybe there is not much benefit there, or maybe your goals aren't in alignment with what group therapy (rather than "group therapy with T") can provide.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I started on a stimulant and noticed a reduction in this for some reason.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I've had that same effect, Soliaree. It's reminds me of our discussion in the alcohol thread. Does a person go to therapy as "herself" (drug/med-free or alcohol-free) or with the aid of chemical substances? A person could go to therapy to learn to overcome shyness, or a person could take meds for GAD and overcome it that way. (Sidony and Soliaree, I'm not saying this is the case for either of you, just a general example.)

I like Soliaree's suggestion of "practicing" a response with your T. That might be a good bridge strategy until you are able to respond without rehearsal.

Sidony, another idea--could you take a break from group therapy for a month and see if you miss it at all? If you don't miss it and it doesn't slow your progress by not going, then you would have your answer. You could think of it as a little experiment....

Good luck.

[bluenarciss]

Hello sidony,

I see your point, although I never had problems with shyness or blockades in groups. There were times, when I suffered from social phobia - in public, and worse, on the job. It occurred when I felt weaker and more vulnerable than usual, and it was not so much the feeling to be not a person that fits well to other cheerful healthy people or the fear to maybe be a boring or a tiresome person, but more the thought of not being and not performing adequate. To be somehow under group standard.

You describe it as being afraid to talk crap. What kind of reactions do you expect, if you would make an experiment and really talk crap? There would be reactions, of course. But would they be as negative as you assume they "have to be"? I bet no! Because everybody makes mistakes, talks nonsense, misspells, mispronounces,... and talks crap sometimes. No one is safe from that. And everybody understands, if this happens, since it happened often enough to oneself.

Do not judge what you want to say in advance. It could be that you judge yourself much more severely than anyone else would. You cannot know how people evaluate what you do or say without testing it. You do not know, if a group is indifferent or hostile or whatever towards you, until you probe them.

Of course this will need all your courage. But that is the fine thing with blockades: once broken, it's quite easy to slip through *wink*

Without actively taking a feedback, you will never know what is fact and what only your imagination! Watch what in reality happens when you start talking. Observe what you feel when this happens!

Contrary to many other writers here I want to encourage you to go through this. When it feels uncomfortable, take a sharp look at it. Where it hurts, there is a message waiting, or an important lesson - that is what I have learned in therapy. And always when I followed that route I made progress.

I wish you well,
bluna

[sidony]

Hey all,

Thought I'd write an update: I was terribly depressed this week, and the positive effect of that was that I could talk more in group. Go figure. I've heard that depression and anxiety tend to be opposites, so if you become more of one you become less of the other. My T described it as the Scylla and Charybdis choice (for anyone into literature). :-) I guess that means I have less social anxiety if I'm more depressed. hah! That's not a good trade!

I spent much of the week dealing with regret. And I was thinking about the fact that I mostly regret what I don't do rather than what I do. Usually I'm indecisive about making changes and then regret not having made them. So I decided that I'd probably end up regretting group therapy if I left it without really making it work for me (or deciding once and for all that that was absolutely impossible -- and of course I've never been convinced of that). That, coupled with depression, gave me more motivation and less social anxiety than usual. So Monday's experience was good and I talked quite a bit. I'm hoping to do the same this next week.

I sincerely hope that I don't need depression to benefit from something. I'll use it while it's available though! I mean, if I'm stuck with it anyway.....

Sidony (feeling a bit more positive about group -- you guys do know I swing back-&-forth like a pendulum on this, right?)

wow, Sidony - what an awesome insight you had, that you would regret quitting group without giving it a real try. And then you went in there and talked! That is inspiring!!

I'm sorry you feel depressed .....but look at what you're doing with it - opening up in group AND with your T. Awesome.