[radio_flyer]

This is not meant to upset anyone or to cause any problems...And if it does, feel free to delete.

Whatever happened to the days when folks went through hard times and somehow grew stronger from their experiences. Don't think they needed to spend years in therapy, crying on the "talk couch" saying so and so was mean to me...and then get dx'd with l0 or more mental illness labels... A lot of successful folks have come from incredible horrible backgrounds and yet they smile and seem to be happy. Ok, so all folks that smile may not be all that happy, but I am sure they aren't living each day as tho it were yesterday's painful experiences? Are "yesterday's" pain an "excuse" to flounder about in life. Ok, so "excuse" is not the right word. But then what is the right word?

Seems therapy is the new age healer. Sometimes I think therapy keeps a person in their past miseries. What ever happened to "ouch I stubbed my toes", it hurts, I cry, maybe say a few bad words, but continue to march on..

I know "traumas" are much more painful than stubbing one's toes. Then what is the "key" that some folks experience trauma and aren't affected all their lives and others need to spend "it seems" the rest of their lives medicated and in therapy? Wondering what "core" thing is missing or better yet, what do these people have that other's seem to be lacking? Whatever they have, I want it.

[Angel_of_the_Past]

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radio_flyer said:

Wondering what "core" thing is missing or better yet, what do these people have that other's seem to be lacking?

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You know, I don't really know what to say. I'm a masters prepared clinician, worked for 30 years in a clinical setting. You would think if any one was of strong fiber it might be me. But guess what? It hit me like a ton of bricks; I am devastated by my illness. It is worse than I could have ever imagined. There is no way to explain to some one who's not inflicted with it (mental illness)what it's like. One would think I know all the tricks and should be able to heal myself, but it doesn't work that way.

PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: I have them all.

Mental Illness is a very real and devastating thing.

[Junerain]

Not only is mental illness very real, and very devastating, it is faceless- a hard enemy to wrap ourselves around and fight...just when we understand it....it changes its disposition....

[Angel_of_the_Past]

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Junerain said:
Not only is mental illness very real, and very devastating, it is faceless- a hard enemy to wrap ourselves around and fight...just when we understand it....it changes its disposition....

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You couldn't have said it better. Also Mental Illness knows "No socio-economic boundaries"!

[chaotic13]

I think in the past people simply talked more and learned to relate better to one another. Today with the destruction of the family and a highly mobile community, we have lost some of our traditional ways of helping each other heal. I also think there are a lot more distractions in our everyday lives that enable us to avoid things and inhibit the development of deeper connection. Finally I think we live in a world where pain and suffering consider bad and immediately attempted to be fix via drugs, entertainment, etc.. Our tolerance for pain and suffering has diminished just like our tolerance for living comfortably without air conditioning. Is this a bad thing... I don't know. I guess it depends on how it is done. If it keeps a person in their past miseries, then maybe the harm is not worth the benefit.

I agree with chaotic....and I also think that if we lived in community, some of the things that happened to some of us as children wouldn't have happened. Isolation doesn't lead to a lot of safety.

[Mouse_]

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radio_flyer said:
This is not meant to upset anyone or to cause any problems...And if it does, feel free to delete.

Whatever happened to the days when folks went through hard times and somehow grew stronger from their experiences. Don't think they needed to spend years in therapy, crying on the "talk couch" saying so and so was mean to me...and then get dx'd with l0 or more mental illness labels... A lot of successful folks have come from incredible horrible backgrounds and yet they smile and seem to be happy. Ok, so all folks that smile may not be all that happy, but I am sure they aren't living each day as tho it were yesterday's painful experiences? Are "yesterday's" pain an "excuse" to flounder about in life. Ok, so "excuse" is not the right word. But then what is the right word?

Seems therapy is the new age healer. Sometimes I think therapy keeps a person in their past miseries. What ever happened to "ouch I stubbed my toes", it hurts, I cry, maybe say a few bad words, but continue to march on..

I know "traumas" are much more painful than stubbing one's toes. Then what is the "key" that some folks experience trauma and aren't affected all their lives and others need to spend "it seems" the rest of their lives medicated and in therapy? Wondering what "core" thing is missing or better yet, what do these people have that other's seem to be lacking? Whatever they have, I want it.

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T says that perhaps some people did get "more" something then others no matter how traumatic childhoods were?...even if you life indoors is hell, perhaps there was a kindly neighbour or distant relative that managed to bestow enought "something" when it mattered?? so it doesn't particualarly matter how traumatic our lifes were or who can be "stronger" its if we got enought, if we didn't then we just didnt and all the wanting to not need help for many yrs doesn't make an ounce of different until we get enought of what we need or needed and whose to say how long that will take???

[gardenergirl]

APA put out some great information about resilience after 9/11. Since then, they've built on that. You can find lots of info about this topic at http://apahelpcenter.org/featuredtop....php?id=6&ch=2

gg

[StingInTheTail]

I agree with Chaotic, absolutely we live in a different world and many of the supports (community, familiy, religion, tradition) have changed radically, leaving people - at least in the affluent western world - with fewer definites on which to base their lives. More choices, more expectations, more navel-gazing (or call it self-awareness) leads to more articulated dissatisfactions. Articulating things clearly, most people would agree, is a good thing. What is articulating to one, might be whining to another.

There have always been philosophers, writers, artists, religious people or shamans or wise men etc etc who have grappled with issues about what it means to be alive, happy, good, bad etc.

These are not new questions. We are just asking them in relation to more banal things, more ordinary things. Leaving aside mental illness, which we are now better able to diagnose and therefore help people to live happier lives as part of the human community, psychotherapy gives people a chance to pick apart some of the forces that drive them that they may not be fully aware of or in control of.

We don't have to go back far at all to the dark ages of 'getting on with things'. We all know people who are good at getting on with things, of picking themselves up and dusting themselves off and all that. Some of them may be genuinely resilient but I think far more of the rest are creating scar tissue, not healing properly and leaving weaknesses in their system that will eventually catch up with them.

Here's one analogy: training for a sport 20 years ago used very different techniques for strengthening based on what was known about the body at the time. What would today's athletes be like if what had been learned in the meantime was not applied?

[radio_flyer]

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One would think I know all the tricks and should be able to heal myself, but it doesn't work that way.

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I do know that "mental illness" is "real". I am not questioning that. I am searching for answers. Maybe some things there may not be flat out answers..

A female T once told me to never ask why. That didn't work for me because I am the type of person that needs to understand the whys of why this or that happens. Once I can understand and connect the whys to whatever I need to know, I tend to do better.

[radio_flyer]

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just when we understand it....it changes its disposition....

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Interesting comment. I need to think on this a bit more although it does make sense. pondering

[radio_flyer]

I agree that isolation doesn't lead to a lot of safety. I tend to disagree that living in a "community" there would be less abuse of children. Sadly, children are abused "everywhere". In the city. In the country. Even in a quaint, loving community.

[radio_flyer]

WOW.. You got my attention.

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perhaps there was a kindly neighbour or distant relative that managed to bestow enought "something" when it mattered??

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But what is that "something"? That is what I need to know. What is that "something" I didn't get and needed. If I knew what it was, maybe I could somehow get it myself and fix it?

But then how would I find it "within" myself, when I don't even remember any interactions with parents, sister and brother when growing up. I don't know how I was raised. I was the "perfect" child, so maybe life was just going along smooth, and that is why I don't remember. But then that idea doesn't agree with what was uncovered in therapy. I don't know why I can't blend what I remember as being "a great childhood" with what surfaced in therapy. I think maybe I think too much, sometimes.
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whose to say how long that will take???

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Good point! Guess that is why we are all "individuals". So however long it takes to get what is needed would certainly be a personal thing. So no one can tell one how long it will take.

[radio_flyer]

Wow.. more great ideas to ponder and learn
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Resilience is not a trait that people either have or do not have. It involves behaviors, thoughts, and actions that can be learned and developed in anyone.

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There is hope. Behaviors, thoughts and actions can be learned by anyone. This is good stuff
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Factors in Resilience

A combination of factors contributes to resilience. Many studies show that the primary factor in resilience is having caring and supportive relationships within and outside the family. Relationships that create love and trust, provide role models, and offer encouragement and reassurance help bolster a person's resilience.

Several additional factors are associated with resilience, including:

* The capacity to make realistic plans and take steps to carry them out
* A positive view of yourself and confidence in your strengths and abilities
* Skills in communication and problem solving
* The capacity to manage strong feelings and impulses

All of these are factors that people can develop in themselves.

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I only got this far in reading the link. Looks like I have a lot of work to do. Maybe a start would be to "reconnect" to people and life in general. Will take a section at a time. Lots and lots of good info. Am almost tired already thinking of all that needs to be worked on.

Thank you for the link...

[skeeweeaka]

You know, I wish I had an answer for that....I ask myself that same thing all of the time. But for me for a great part of my life I have been merely surviving...always felt out of sorts like I didn't belong....like something was definitely wrong....like I had to work extra hard just to feel normal...and all that time I didn't complain too much....not to other people just to myself and god...so when I finally broke....when I finally lost it....everyone was astonished...confused...bewildered.....

I kept up a great facade, but inside I was sad...I was lonely...and afraid... Now I can't seem to regain that footing that I had.... I had a successful career and a pretty great life...and yes I want it all back....but it eludes me because like someone else said...mental illness has no socioeconomic boundaries....it affects anyone and everyone.... People say to me, what do you have to be depressed about...from outward appearances I guess nothing...but it has nothign to do with material possessions or anything like that.. All we have to do is look at the famous people who were super rich who killed themselves and left everyone wondering and saying, "they were fine." Well if they were fine then they would still be here....

Life is not as simple as we would like for it to be...it is in fact complex...and so is mental illness...

TJ

[SpottedOwl]

((radio_flyer))

Your posts caught my attention. I feel like we may have some similar approaches to life, and I love that you want to understand, ask 'why', and do whatever you can for yourself.

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But what is that "something"? That is what I need to know. What is that "something" I didn't get and needed. If I knew what it was, maybe I could somehow get it myself and fix it?

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I often asked myself 'what is wrong with me?' or 'what is broken?' I've done the best I could do in my life, but there was always a background feeling that part of me needed fixing.

Long story, short, one day I picked up a book on Attachment Theory. I was floored. That was it -- after months of reading and researching and looking I found something that made sense. I brought the book into my T, and he was a little surprised, but in a positive way. We both agreed that I had early childhood attachment issues, and since then have been working on intimacy.

There is still work to do, but understanding what was happening and why made a huge difference to me. The fact that I found it myself seemed to help me accept it easier than if my T had suggested it.

If you're interested, think about your earliest childhood memory, write it down, and then go read about the different types of attachment.

And, (forgive me if I'm reading too much of myself into your post), forgive yourself. Realize you've done everything you can with the tools you had.


Owl

[Doh2007]

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radio_flyer said:

But then how would I find it "within" myself, when I don't even remember any interactions with parents, sister and brother when growing up. I don't know how I was raised. I was the "perfect" child, so maybe life was just going along smooth, and that is why I don't remember. But then that idea doesn't agree with what was uncovered in therapy. I don't know why I can't blend what I remember as being "a great childhood" with what surfaced in therapy. I think maybe I think too much, sometimes.

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It's a survival mechanism to "remember" childhood as being happy and normal. It seems like you might have had a "role" in your family as being the perfect child. Roles develop in alcoholic and dysfunctional families.

[Junerain]

Thank you Skeeweeaka for a well written post.....I, too, always felt out of sorts like I didn't belong, like something was definately wrong, like I had to work extra hard just to feel normal...

I have always been very, very aware that my personality is drastically different from the majority of the population..as every personality test so tells me, as reactions from others tell me when I'm simply stating how I like to choose to live my life in the ways I do, spend my time, spend my choices. And it hurts. I believe I was born with my personality, I didn't set out to be this way. I too, was lonely..yet I have recently found my footing..yet all those years of loneliness haunt me, calling me back to them, as if my role has changed and it has left me perplexed..perhaps you, too, can find your footing once again..that is so, so personal as to how and why..so I won't suggest how you go about doing it..mental illness IS complex!! here's a symbol of maturing, this post has helped me mature....

[gardenergirl]

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radio_flyer said:

I only got this far in reading the link. Looks like I have a lot of work to do. Maybe a start would be to "reconnect" to people and life in general. Will take a section at a time. Lots and lots of good info. Am almost tired already thinking of all that needs to be worked on.

Thank you for the link...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm glad you found it helpful. I thought it was a good set of material when it came out, and it's still relevant.

Reconnecting sounds like a good starting point. There is a lot there to digest and lots of fodder for what to work on. My husband is always reminding me to think and start small and break it down into small chunks, since I get easily overwhelmed with large stuff. I think that anything we do to work on building resilience will be helpful. Resilience can be built one "brick" at a time, I think.

gg

[radio_flyer]

Interesting that you brought up attachment issues. Somewhere along the way, attachment issues caught my attention. I don't think I was in therapy at the time to further explore it, so I guess I put it on the "back burner" and had forgotten all about it.

I do think you touched on something that may be helpful. I will do a search online on the book you suggested and see what info I can find online about attachment issues/problems..This may very well be the key or part of the puzzle.

hmm I don't think I always thought there was something wrong with me. Wasn't until therapy and the T branded me sort of "handicapped". Told me therapy could be a crutch to help me. Only problem was he left me still holding onto a crutch and feeling as though I had be ill since childhood. I did fine until I fell apart around late 30's or early 40's.. anyway.. goal is to be rid of that darn crutch..

Thank you so much for your insight and suggestions. Looks like I have a lot of "homework" to do..

[radio_flyer]

We have no alcoholics in the family. Which leaves that probably the family was dysfunctional. My older sister often said she is surprised we all survived growing up. Even she doesn't remember what we "survived".

I must have played my role well as the perfect child, happy, playful and a bit mischievous. Because that is what I have fond memories of growing up. Guess it is quite normal to "blot" out the not so good stuff. Guess that is why I was skipping along life's path, happy go lucky, that is until I tripped and fell. O gees, that commercial "I've fallen and can't get up" just ran through my head. Made me smile. Guess it is ok to smile even when working on serious things..

[radio_flyer]

OOh geesh. This is heavy stuff. Attachment issues. I don't know. By what I've read I don't think I have attachment issues. But then, I don't think I am qualified to say either way. I don't know. Just doesn't seem to fit.. I thought maybe I was on to something. I just don't feel it inside that attachment is a problem with me.

I always got along great with co-workers. Made friends easily. And I always "bounced back" after difficult times. That is until I crashed. That was after the divorce. Although I was slowly slipping while married, I didn't crash until either the divorce or separation..Anyway, it wasn't until my early 50's that I deliberately decided to lay low and not get close to folks anymore. I think the reason is I was sooooo drained emotionally and had nothing of me left to offer, so I just backed off. Guess it felt safe for me to lay low, thinking I would get my old self back. Just haven't gotten the ole me back yet..So I am back to "I don't know what the heck is my problem".

Thinking maybe I should start focusing on the "good" things now.. Guess the "rare mood" I was in when I started this thread has passed. I can say I learned a lot from this thread. I just know sometimes too much info can be overwhelming and hard to sort. I think that is what is happening now. I need to back off, maybe start working on gaining some resilience.. slowly tho.

Thank you everyone that responded. I think I've written back to everyone.