Sibling relationships

perpetuallysad, you are not a nut case. I know I sound like a broken record but negative chatter and self-deprecation are so unhelpful.

Arguing fairly is a worthy goal: http://www.ehow.com/how_5826775_argu...lligently.html

Instead of you did this, or you said that, what seems to work a bit better is to talk about how you feel when your sister does certain things.

"Sister, I care about the nieces and nephews very much. Would it be possible for me and my child to visit with nephew to wish him a happy birthday and maybe take him out to lunch?

I understand you have every right to invite whomever you want to nephew's party. You know I do not see eye to eye with mom. I would appreciate a call to let me know when you invite Mom so alternative arrangements may be made ... (to do whatever).

I know that you do not agree with how I feel about Mom. That is your right. But it makes me feel sad that you do not have respect for my feelings. I believe I have legitimate reasons for feeling the way I do and I would appreciate it if you give me the same respect you give mom."

Now, if your sister is unwilling to go along with the program, you will have a difficult choice to make. Either you accept what your sister decides is appropriate for you, or you set your own boundaries and be assertive in a non-aggressive way.

What makes this situation more difficult is the history of the relationships of the parties. Each of you have come to expect the others to act in familiar ways. It make take some time for a different approach from you to sink in.

By the way, I do not mean to be condescending or officious. Please tell me to fly a kite in your new boundary-setting, assertive style.

Have a great day.

Byz: I never think you are condescending or officious. I truly appreciate the help and insight you provide me with. Honestly, saying I feel like I am in therapy was a compliment of sorts. You make me think like my t/pdoc does.

I really like the script you suggest. And you are right. I have created a situation where she expects me to act and do certain things, so I have a difficult change to make. I am predicting her behavior, which my t/pdoc HATES!!!, but I do feel she really will tell me to get over it. She tends to be an extremely controlling person (much like my mother, ironically) and very harsh and uncaring about my feelings (or anyone else's, for that matter). If I tell her something makes me sad, she's either going to flat out make fun of me for it, or say that she doesn't care and I need to get over it. (I say this from past experience.)

Also, I know that self-depreciation is a problem and its something I am very bad about doing to myself. I have worked on this for 5 years in therapy and I cannot say I am any less harsh on myself now than I was when I began. I feel weird and I feel like a nutcase and I feel unworthy. I feel like experiences in my life constantly reinforce these beliefs so it is hard to break myself free of them.

Junerain: I am a very shy person and tend to be very reclusive. I do not handle social situations well and am not comfortable at all in attempting to "make friends". In fact, I cannot think of a situation at all where I would be comfortable doing this. Over time I have found that friends have the most power to hurt you and I just cannot handle more hurt. I realize this is all unhealthy and me and my t/pdoc work on this when we have the time. I have never been a group participant type person. The only group situations where I feel even the tiniest bit comfortable is when I am in the position of teacher or instructor, and then I don't feel comfortable interacting on an individual basis outside of the instruction topic.

double post, sorry

(((((((( perpetuallysad ))))))))

just something I'm kicking around here with you and me-- hope you don't mind.....

when others-- with sincere intentions of being helpful for sure-- advise on getting friends, belonging to a group of some sort, etc..etc... there is a facet going on that they probably(and luckily for them) don't experience-- the sheer terror of being close to others-- even in "friend" form or group atmosphere.... terror.....

ditto! (yea, i think we are twins)

I've been thinking and-- well, I don't know if this exactly fits for you but I grew up where home-- ALL who were in it-- were NOT safe. I was hurt in one way or other by every single person in my first experience of closeness and groups. (youngest- from a large family) I, in addition, experienced several traumas outside-away from home- as a child and after the first one at age 4, I learned to not ever seek closeness/comfort from those that the culture states I should be close to.--- thus--



All my adult life I've not had one close(3-D) friend and the anxiety keeps me "safe" from ever belonging to any kind of group.(extreme fear of being hurt)

Im thinking maybe it's as wee little ones-- the human encounters callous, abusive relations for their first "close" experiences of relationships/groups(the family) and if this continues from infancy into adulthood-- it is strongly engrained in the personality and mind that closeness is NOT a good thing. (I see now how my thinking is needing a 180 degree turn-- as could be yours?)

anyway--- I could be way off for you on this?...... just was kicking around a thought..... and also was hoping it could maybe help.

fins

Actually fins, what you describe is very similar to my childhood situation and probably very accurately defines why I am the way I am now.

I am crying for the feelings behind this thread, they are very, very sad..


They are tears of beauty, tears that stand up for wrongs...deep, deep, penetrating wrongs that defy what the human spirit should be..

I will never lose my dream of what the human spirit SHOULD be

All the things that this thread shows it's not..

How are you doing, perpetuallysad?

You read my mind, Byz. I was just coming on to say that I wrote my sister a very factual email, much like you suggested, though longer, stating my feelings. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for checking on me, that means a lot.

Well, it turned out far worse than I could ever have possibly imagined. She wrote the most mean, hurtful, hateful email back that she could come up with. She said that I have made up everything about my mom abusing me because I want everyone to feel sorry for me and to have an excuse for being a loser as an adult. She said that my shrink was my problem and I lie about everything that really happened in my life.

Oh, god it ****ing hurts so bad I can barely breathe.

I'm so so very sorry.

that's why I have not nor will I probably ever confront any of my family(been told to be emotionally prepared to handle any reactions , I don't think I would handle invalidation well at all)-- I prefer the emotionally distant place-- even when we are at gatherings. maybe some would say Im avoiding- but I see it as self-protection.

I can't help but wonder if distancing yourself would be of some help to you??(at least if even for a while) I wish I had the 100 percent surfire answer for you perpetuallysad.

I'm sorry you are hurting so much.

please be kind to you-- you are very deserving of kindness and understanding...... please give yourself that.

thinking of you

fins

I am so, so wounded right now that I barely know what to think. I honestly feel like I am in shock, like I'm floating above my body watching this all happen. I will definitely distance myself from her, but at the cost of great pain for me. She is the "last" family member I have and I will now not be able to see my sweet nephews and niece, I am very close to them-this will be very hard for me-very hard for my son! I am so deeply hurt by the things she said. I was so careful not to critisize her at all, all I did was state my feelings and why I felt the way I do. Nothing else. Oh this all hurts so much. Its like she must have called my mother and talked to her about it before she responded because she used a lot of the exact same phrases that my mother has used in the past when I tried to confront her about the abuse. I have cared for my sister since she was a tiny baby. For a while my mom worked nights and I took care of all of my brothers and sister like a parent. I protected her from our stepfather. I've given her the literal clothes off of my back. I've provided her with free room and board for her large family on many occasions. I've given her many, many things. I mean every time I get something I get something for her or her kids too. I have loved her so much. I think that because I lost my brother to suicide that I have clung to my relationship with my sister out of desperate fear of losing her to and now I find out its all been a lie. I feel so, so...used. Is this what families do? Hurt you and kick you when you are down?

(((((((( perpetuallysad ))))))))

So sorry.

I hug you until the pain stops

I really really deep down feel angry at your sister for being so cold blooded, so calculating, so animal like instead of human like...

I too suffer from abuse from my family......


I cling to my faith when I feel the pain is too much to bear (which is often..)

There is a heavenly father that loves us in a way that is so deep, so real, so unending, so empathetic, it is as if the heavenly father reaches down and holds our very hearts

This is the ONLY thing that has gotten me through my life, it has been very difficult life..

And you do have a child, you are blessed I dream and dream about one day meeting someone to give me a child but it never ever happens..

...so I have no one........

I work with children, crave children, to not just be at work but a part of my life..............

I have been crying for about an hour now over what you must feel, for it is my feelings also, I feel them with you

We always have PC to come to, to write out how we feel, to express ourselves, to dream about the life we might have had, to work on creating a better now, to love each member, it truly is a work of beauty, PC is

I also have my faith...am clinging to it now.....

Write more if you need to, get it all out...

I care deeply (very deeply..)

Junerain, thank you so very much.

I have been going through a range of emotions from a shock to heartbroken grief. I have accomplished nothing for the past 2 days. I, clearly, can barely form coherent thoughts and haven't even managed to cook for my son and husband. Thankfully, today at least, I've been better able to project "okness" to my son, because yesterday he knew something was wrong and he was worried and upset because I wouldn't share with him what was happening (we are big about talking about our feelings around here). Anyway, I am at a point, right now at least, that I just don't know what to do. She sent me a brief email this morning saying that I took everything out of context...hell, I'll copy and paste both of her emails.

1st email she sent, after I sent her a message telling her simply that she hurt me and then explained why I am not able to be around our mother.

My response:
I spent about 4 hours last night crying my heart out and questioning everything about myself. According to both her and my mother, I make everything up and lie about all kinds of things. I have to wonder if I am wrong about everything? Did I forget some fantastic life I really had? If I was making things up, wouldn't I make up good things instead of horrible ones? I hate that I allow this to effect me so much, but it does. I am an absolute basket case right now and I don't know what to do. My husband and I have talked about all of this (thank goodness I have him) and he thinks she should have to call and apologize before I talk to her about any of this...

Here's the last note I got from her (I have not responded):
I don't even know what to do about all of this. I just keep thinking of never seeing my nephews and niece again and that kills me. But then I think of the things she's said and I cannot imagine how to just get past all of these things she thinks. She attacked my character on a very deep level.

I put all of this out here, so if you see where I've done something wrong, or said something that was unfair, please tell me. I need your honest (though, please god don't be mean, I cannot take any more attacks) assessment of this stuff. Thank you to anyone that took the time to read all of this. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

(Italics are added where I've removed my son's name)

perpetuallysad

junerain

I'm sorry for all your pain.

I read over the first response from your sister.... and.... well... I think she has learned some narcissistic traits(if you don't mind me saying so) at least this is how it seems(IMO) .....

like here-- couldn't she have just said-- I'm sorry that you are hurting from our childhood.?

and here-- THAT is her view-- Not yours. She didn't validate your view.

and -- Yep-- HER view again.

and here-- OH this is just what the mother does to me-- she puts the blame on me if I am hurt-- argh!

again HER view and once more-- it's all HER view.

perpetuallysad
I'd like to suggest you obtain any book you can on coping with difficult personalities in the family. I just finished a book -- How to Deal with Powerful Personalities ...by Dr. Tim Kimmel (I got it at Goodwill for 99 cents)... it's helped me some too. I am a reading maniac!! I look at yard sales, book sales that libraries have, second hand stores, even some dollar stores carry books. I wish I could send you the book.... not that it has all the answers-- just anything that can lead in a healing direction is worth it..... wish we had a book swap here at PC-- that would be cool!

anyway-- kind of got sidetracked there..sorry.

I just so understand your pain and yours too Junerain. Family dynamics can be so depleteing of our energy and souls.

You're both in my thoughts and heart.

fins

thank you for taking the time to say that. You are right. Byz said something similar to me earlier today about her not trying to look at things from my point of view. If you had not pointed it out to me, I actually would have never even realized why what she said hurt so much, but you are right. She completely invalidated everything I said and feel. She refuses to acknowledge my feelings and experiences.

Families are so hard. I don't understand how people who are supposed to love you more than anyone else can hurt you so much.

I love books too. I go to a thrift store near me a lot and get tons and tons of books for sooooo cheap. I've got a list I take with me of books I'm always on the lookout for, I'll be adding that one to the list too. Thank you very much.

Let us know what books you get! I will get them too, and we'll begin a book club/friendship circle/love each other becuase our families dont/ group

.... for some of us-- Isn't that partly how we arrived at the point we are at?(in turmoil)-- Family. I know it doesn't make sense, according to "culture", family is supposed to be the soft place to land, the place of compassion and validation. but.... sometimes... some families don't fit the bill, for many differing reasons.

We are fam-ily..... I've got all my sisters and me....
we are fam-ily.... get up everybody and sing!!

You made me smile Fins. Thanks.

And that's a great idea about the book club Junerain.

Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood