[Kashia]

The persons involved are myself, my son and my daughter in law- his wife. and a pug.
For a period of time I managed DIL business to relieve her so she could go live with her husband, my son. I did this for 1 1/2 yrs. When she left, she also left a pug dog to me. She did not want the dog and as she could not house train it. I bonded with the dog and did train it and she became my companion dog.
Fast forward to present. DIL decided she needed to return to business to run it and let me go. She attempted to use I was not doing a good job as a reason which was not the case. So she moved away from her husband, 6 hrs away, (my son) to take over the business and I left.
I of course took my dog with me.
The important issue here and why I am here to seek some clarity is
she now claims to want the dog and wants me to return it. Legally the dog is mine but this is not the point. Because I am not returning the dog, she has stopped talking to my son. Even on his birthday few days ago. She claims she can not talk to him without thinking of me and the dog. So she has cut off all communication with him, she claims, for these reasons.
I believe her actions have little to do with me or the dog but her (DIL) mother is in tears, calling me daily, trying to reason with me to return the dog so she will talk with her husband again ( my son) and perhaps everything will be fine.
Just wonder what uninvolved peoples perspective may be on this situation. Thank you in advance

[RomanSunburn]

I'm curious, what does your son, her husband say about all of this? What did he say about her moving 6 hours away and of her reasons for not talking to him over the dog?

I believe that there is more to this issue than meets the eye.. possibly control/authority issues on her part?

I'm sorry I can't give you a better answer... I need the mull over the issue a little bit, but I wanted to ask those questions first...

Best wishes,
Ro

[Kashia]

Originally Posted by RomanSunburn

I'm curious, what does your son, her husband say about all of this? What did he say about her moving 6 hours away and of her reasons for not talking to him over the dog?

I believe that there is more to this issue than meets the eye.. possibly control/authority issues on her part?

I'm sorry I can't give you a better answer... I need the mull over the issue a little bit, but I wanted to ask those questions first...

Best wishes,
Ro

Thanks. well, he is unhappy of course about her leaving and returning to the business but willing to accept it for business sake. although it was doing well with me running it. I went there so she could leave. It was unclear to anyone why she felt this way.
The dog became then the focus when I left.
He is hurt by it, of course, her not speaking to him.

I keep circling around should I return the dog, will she be happy and speak to him again...then I think there is more going on, it is not the dog and it was not my performance as manager that was off.
Is this immaturity? Is it wanting out of a relationship and finding other ways to express it?

At first my son said he did not want to be involved with dog issue.
Then she kept on him and did not care really the position she was putting him in, between his wife and mother. Then he called me and said she is not talking to me Mom, I hate to ask you but let ME take the dog.
I said this is a demand I am not willing to jump to, emotional blackmail and temper tantrums. Tell her she needs to call and talk to me. She called the police instead. They said they could not get involved.
Now she is so mad her mother said to me she is afraid she will leave him could I please return the dog.
I am saying unbelievable~!!!
Now my son says this has nothing to do with you Mom.
Her mother also said have I considered the implications of if they stay together and have children I may never be allowed to see them? Over a dog she never cared about until now??
I am saying to myself that is mean spirited maybe not good idea to have children until that changes.
As I write this - it sounds quite dysfunctional and just plain immature. and I think she is not able to talk about how she really feels. but if she could it would it might be maybe I am not happy being married. thanks for reading and your comment

[AAAAA]

It sounds more like control and manipulation issues to me.

[Rhapsody]

Sound like marital issues where already in the making and she is just needing a reason as to why she no longer desires to communicate with her husband (your son) and sadly you are the one she has picked to blame.

BTW - I am with you I would not return the dog... you two have bonded while the in law no longer wanted him and he should not be separated from his love and security.

[radio_flyer]

I am with Rhapsody . You house trained the dog. She did not want the dog. The dog is yours.. I would NOT return the dog....Agreeing with everyone that this sounds like a "control issue...

I think I've got this right --- Your son's wife won't talk to him because of the dog.. Seems a lot more here than meets the eye... ..... Manipulation big time here........Tell your son, "silence is golden"......

[NuckingFutz]

Wow, her excuse not to talk to your son is so outragous one could only think this is a complete fabrication. Wonder what would happen if you gave the dog back (please don't). I think she knows you wouldn't. Thinking about this I would say this woman will do anything not to take responsibility for her devious actions. I would definately do a complete backround check on this woman. It is the only way you will get straight answers about this woman. Putting you in the middle is sick. You must be going through some not so pleasant emotions right now. Please know we are here if you want to share all the feelings and get some emotional support. And you spoil that dog and be there for your son every chance you get. Sending you hugs. Hope to hear from you soon.

[Sabrina]

How unpleasant for you and your son. My honest feeling is that your son is better off without her.

[Kashia]

Thank all of you..last night after a long conversation with DIL's mother I was in tears and feeling I would give dog back. Instead, I came on here and read all your replies...it kind of woke me up from the emotional state of hearing how returning dog could help her daughter be nicer and many other things. I called her back after reading this and left message that the issue is not the dog. also it is not that I took her dog and should give it back. The dog has been with me for 18 months, I have cared for, trained...I rescued the dog from a sad lonely excistance living in a cage. So I would like to make this clear, this is my dog. As dog has been with me, nothing has changed and dog will remain with me. Now I am wondering ....I hae suspected DIL was using me as scapegoat for 1) needing a reason to leave him and 2) the dog, why she won't talk to him. I said on message "I do not think I can talk about this issue anylonger with you. DIL will do as she wants and I have no control over this and these conversations with you about this have filled volumes."
Should I follow up with what I believe to DIL's mother...that her daughter has said things that have suggested she is thinking about divorce before any of this or should just end conversation as it is? well I should probably stop fueling the conflict and not say anything I do not have concrete proof of. I am pretty sure that is best thing to do now. and just learn...what will be the best way for me to help my son? I know he is depressed and has been crying. I don't know what or how I can best help him other than I call every few days and just talk and do not bring up what is going on- unless he does - I am concerned about his depression. He works with my other son, they are together daily in business. Should I talk to other son about this ? maybe mention "I think your brother is heading into or is in state of depression and I am concerned...I hear he is crying often but when alone. you are with him everyday..." I just do not know what to say ...but thank you all for your insight and support. invaluable

[Kashia]

Originally Posted by AAAAA

It sounds more like control and manipulation issues to me.

as you have four children I would like to ask you...given I believe this whole situation....me being asked to leave business and about the dog..both really an excuse for DIL needing a reason to leave marriage...what is the best way for me to help him?

What do parents do when their child is heading for divorce? In this case I believe this is the case before my son is aware in those terms...he is processing slowly and is depressed.

what heartache.

[KadenCares]

this may sound a little cruel.

ask your son how he feels about filing notice of separation.
may bring everything out into the open. and maybe save him years of tolerating this kind of behavior.

what i am trying to say is, for dil to involve both sides of the family [she married your son,not you or her mother]. i would guess that involvement of an ear she can get the response she is seeking is what will always be the case.
so far her mother thinks "giving the dog back" will solve the issue. your son is leaning that way.

personally i wouldn't let dil raise a housefly. has too much selfishness going on. already proved that by leaving the dog with you and her business to run, just to expect "ok i back now and i want".

peeling this band-aid off slowly will only prolong all your all's anguish.
imo. see if separation papers will find the truth.

p.s.glad you were able to house train your dog!

[Perna]

I would play King Solomon and threaten to give the dog away or even to drop it off at the pound since it's the cause of so much trouble, see if she "allows" that. Or, tell her to come see the dog and talk to you, I don't understand why you have to do the going and giving? If she wants/cares about the dog, the minimums she should do is come see it and reason with you in person?

[AAAAA]

May I first say GOOD FOR YOU!!!! You saw through the excuses and rationalizations and stood up for yourself. ATTA GIRL!!!!

Frankly your DIL sounds like a nut case, and nothing you or her mother do will change the DIL's behavior (does her mother REALLY think that by handing over a dog she gave up over a year ago will somehow fix the issues in their marriage? Perhaps the apple does not fall far from the tree?). She needs to take responsiblity for her own actions. Even if you cowed down to these demands, she'll have another excuse down the line that rationalizes her irrational and very bizzare behavior.

As for any help you can give you son, in my opinion the only thing that you can do is be there for him. Listen to him, and give him all the emotional support you can WITHOUT getting sucked into the issues. You don't know what tomorrow will bring and anything you may say now may be later the source of resentment and hard feelings. As hard as it may be, keep your opinions to yourself.

I learned this the hard way years ago, not with my children but with my brother. I never liked his wife. She is/was a self-centered, immature, spoiled brat. For seven years I kept it to myself. When they split up, he was feeling like a failure etc. All those things that you feel in that situation. He commented to my mother that he was concerend about what my reaction would be to the split. She made the comment that I never liked the wife to begin with and decided to share with him all of the negative feelings I've had over the years.

When he called me, I said "I'm really sorry that this didn't work out." Then he revealed what my mother had shared with him and asked why I didn't express these feelings earlier. I lost my common sense for a bit and let loose. I gave him my honest opinion. He agreed entirely. BUTTTTTT three YEARS later, when my father died unexpectedly the loss brought them together again.

He felt the need to tell me how much she'd matured and humbled over those three years and how she'd been there for him etc. Except!!!! At the service my cousin arrived in her brand new BMW and my dear SIL's main concern at that point was that she didn't know if my cousin could see SIL's Rolex from where she was sitting! Even if you're stupid and shallow enough to have these thoughts, you don't express them to the grieving family!!!! Even though I wasn't able to vocalize my thoughts, the look on my face apparently spoke volumes. The end result is my brother and I do not speak really.

Sorry for the book.

[englishteacher]

Wow- all over a dog? I have to agree with the rest - nope, it's not the dog. It's the DIL - she needs some help. Don't give her the dog - what will she want next?

[Kashia]

Just want to say thank you so much to all of you. Your input helped me to get out of my head and emotions and do the right thing which is dog is with me!!

My DIL has still not spoken to my son, now going on 2 1/2 weeks. she did call and left a message to him "I know I need to talk to you"...
so the bigger picture previewing soon.

Thank you again so much, you are a great group of insightful people.

[Shangrala]

Hi, Kashia~

I would think the best thing that you can do for your son regarding him divorcing is just be there for him during his time of need. If he should request your suport, then offer him what you can, which I'm sure would be sufficiant.

It is definately a control issue on ur DIL's part, and she is merely seeking any reason to justiy her actions, (if the dog wasn't a reason, it'd most likely be something else).
It's beyond me why she would intently divide herself from your son through so much distance especially not having the need to. There's clearly far more going on with her than she's admitting to, and using her work and the issue about a dog that she couldn't care less about as justifications.

Imo, anyone who can be cruel to animals has something far more going on with them than they let on....and that alone is just the tip of the iceburg to the many red flags indicating her lack of character.
Know that you are doing your son a huge favor by supporting him just by standing your ground regarding the dog issue. This fabricated reason of hers, (as well as the distance thing), is what very well may be the beginning of the end.

In regards to your convos with her mother...don't allow her sobbing and pleading influence you. I really don't understand why the hell she's involving herself at this level, anyway. Perhaps she's completely blinded to who her daughter really is. Or, more likely, her daughter has manipulated her, as well.
There is no need to go any further with her mother regarding details about her own daughter. If she doesn't know yet, she'll learn eventually...maybe.
There's really no point in attempting to discredit someone (DIL) when they have such little credibility to begin with.

That lil pug is very fortunate to have you. Hang onto that sweet thing with all you have, (I certainly would not let it go...especially back to an abusive situation...NO way).

Stand your ground. You're doing the right thing...

Shangrala

[Kashia]

I thought I understood all of the situation. But I didn't. My son called other night and asked if I could talk to his wife and tell her I will not involve him and for her to stop what she is doing. so I called her and listened to 20 min of abuse approaching this in my head like she is acting out and temper tantrum. but it is deeper. I asked her if she would be willing for her and I to see a therapist or family counselor so we could talk this out. she is refusing and just calls me names. terrible. I met with my son following day. he believes she is in a lot of emotional pain over her father dying, he really loves her and wants to work this out. and I asked "If I gave her the dog what would that accomplish"? he says it would take this out of the situation then he would be able to address with her the abusive treatment she is giving him. Her mother is very involved with my son and trying to be a mediator. there is so much blaming going on..I am responsible for the business being ruined ( what?) and her misery, their marriage and mostly my sons pain...although he does not say or believe that. it is mostly DIL and her mother. I am trying to find someone to talk with but am on disability right now so that is not an option until I return to work.
I really want to be clear on this and my emotions are everywhere. I need to understand if I really am the cause of this misery...would just giving the dog to her really make any difference? she is in pretty ugly place right now. reminds me of someone in a lot of pain in a cage lashing out. I just hope I can find someone to discuss this with because working it out by myself is not working. I understand I could not be that terrible of a person to do all the things they say. I am also sure of course I make mistakes but nothing intentional and I have asked several times for explanation why I was asked to leave the business and no one talks to me. so confusing. I just want to know the best thing to do for my son and his situation. the elusive truth.

Frankly, the illogic is brobdingnagian. Why should you have to give the dog to one who abuses you? There is no guaranty the abuse will stop whether or not you give up the dog. Just the same, at the very least the abuse should stop as a condition precedent to even considering giving up the dog.

Your son wants to reconcile. He should be talking to her about stopping the abuse. Since that appears to be unlikely, my thought is for your son to ask her to go to joint counseling with him to work on their issues, including the death of her father. If she agrees to go to joint counseling and the abuse stops, then you might want to consider returning the dog.

[NuckingFutz]

Seems like manipulation on top of manipulation. She demands the dog or else. Then she gets emotional over her father's death so you will feel even worse while verbally abusing you. If you think about it, if DIL just lost a dear one, Making you go through the same type of a loss would be the last thing a human being would do. This lady is bad news. If she keeps pushing your buttons until you give, can you imagine her raising your grandchild if they stay together. Keeping you and your son and pug in my prayers.

[Kashia]

Thank you both for recent replies. This is going to be a painful resolution any way. My older son has now involved himself in helping his brother. That son has been married 16 yrs and has kind of stayed on the periphery until now. So perhaps this will help. am encouraging therapist for any all together separate...
my family has never had anything like this occur before. there have been divorces deaths births marriages fights love celebrations happiness sadness.. but this...defys logic and rational thoughts. this is how someone with , well I am not a diagnostician! but it represents to me what sociopathic manipulation can do to a family. very confusing, at first especially, and very painful.