[Mom2gr8guys]

My husband was diagnosed with a NPD, and has virtually all of the traits. (Naturally he denies it, says he only has some tendancies). We are both in our 50's and have been married 12 years, my 2nd marriage, his 4th with a few engagements in there as well. He abandoned me 3 months ago (my college age son called me at work asking if we had been robbed). This was a COMPLETE shock to me! (His reason was that he was lonely in our marriage). At his request and against pastoral advice, we began Marriage counseling. After 2 months, my husband decided it was ineffective, so we were quitting the joint counseling (by his own admission he was only giving a D effort). He said he needed to focus on addressing his own issues in individual counseling. He attended 1 session about 3 weeks ago and has quit. (He had wanted me to Beg him to come back home but I refused - trying to set boundaries, apparently too late. I have told him numerous times I wanted him home but would not BEG). Two weeks ago he came to the house to talk and told me "that I probably already knew, he was not coming back". He said he was completely happy for the first time in a LONG time and wanted to spend the rest of his life alone with his dog - remember he is lonely???). I asked him what he meant by that and he said he didn't know. He never mentioned a divorce.....just end of conversation. I asked him about a divorce then and he said, yes he guessed a divorce was the next step. We have both contacted attorneys (I actually did the day after he left) but no formal steps have been taken. I am in the process of getting financial stuff in order, and I believe he is actually waiting for me to file so that he can be the "victim". In the meantime, I have found out that he met his new girlfriend the same day as our last joint counseling session (he does not know that I know about her). I was also told by his brother than he brought a 25 yr old w/a baby to a family birthday party 6 days after he left. The 25 yr old is not the same person as the current girlfriend.

I am struggling with SO many issues:
he lies constantly, about any and everything
steals from family and friends and who knows who else
abuses / intimidates anything weaker or smaller than him - beats his dog to the point where I had to leave the room, has abused verbally his grandchildren, both of our nieces and nephews, and has even physically assaulted a teenage nephew. He does not seriously physically abuse me - just would snap towels, or "frog" my arm. When I complained, I was "just a baby, too much of a girl, no fun, couldn't take a joke...."
financially - extremely irresponsible, and has devastated me financially
VERY Manipulative and the counselor also said (in joint company) he was extremely Passive/Aggressive and mean about it.
and now cheating (he says in response to my question as far as my eventual dating ...that as far as he is concerned we are still married so he won't be seeing any one. He had already met her when he told me that).

After writing this, WHY would I want him back - but at this point I would almost beg him to come back, if it would work. Every single person, who knows the situation has said "GET OUT and STAY AWAY" from him, including members of his own family. I struggle with feeling guilty that because I was trying to be strong and do the right thing for me and ultimately him that this is my fault!

After 12 years of marriage, our age, history, kids are now grown and gone..., I have become accustomed to "walking on egg shells", and having a back-up plan for each and every promise / commitment he has broken!

Any help / insight would be appreciated. Do people with a NPD get worse as they approach mid-life, and will / could this behavior actually get even worse?

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Mom2gr8guys

at this point I would almost beg him to come back, if it would work.

Are you going to counseling yourself? I think these are thorny questions and professional help might really help you clarify the issues and your feelings about your H. It sounds like the way things were/are between you is now unacceptable to you--you have a whole list of major dissatisfactions about your H's behavior. Perhaps with the help of a therapist, you could establish firm boundaries for what you would and would not tolerate in a renewed relationship. If your H is willing to try to meet those, through individual therapy, marriage therapy, or whatever self improvement efforts he can muster, then perhaps the marriage could last longer. I am not getting the sense, though, that your H is interested in prolonging the relationship.

beats his dog to the point where I had to leave the room

This would be a deal breaker for me. In my book, any person who beats animals is scum. Sorry.

Best of luck.

[Sameera]

I'll be blunt about this.

By the sound of it you will be better off without him. You asked if he would possibly get better. Well, has he gotten better by this point in his life? Chances are he will not change a single bit without some drastic effort on his part. It would seem that he has already decided that isn't going to happen.

I know it isn't easy but given your own description and suggestions by even his own family you should move on.

I am sorry to come off as a bit harsh in all of this but I don't see how he can possibly be a positive force in your life at this point. You have already given him 12 years to do better. Instead it sounds like you have gotten used to being treated worse. I say enough is enough, if he doesn't want the relationship any longer than maybe that end up being a benefit to you.

It sounds like with him gone you can do a better job of keeping your life going, have fewer problems and not have to deal with the constant disappointment, hurt, and abuse that he has brought on you.

I know it really isn't an easy thing but I would suggest letting him go his own way and you work on getting your life back to what you want it to be.

I hope things turn out well, good luck.

Abusing helpless animals and children would be a deal breaker for me. I absolutely would not want to be with someone like that at all.

Welcome, Mom2gr8guys.

The Narcissistic Personality Disorder Forum is here: http://forums.psychcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/nar...2/METHOD=print
http://www.psychologytoday.com/condi...ality-disorder

http://www.ehow.com/how_2384214_deal...-disorder.html
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...d_divorce.html

I wish you well, Mom. I hope you can work through this for the betterment of all involved.

[Mom2gr8guys]

Thanks for the responses - I agree with all of them, just having such a hard time with the whole situation. The manipulation and emotional abuse was so extreme, (not being allowed to sleep at night, being accused of saying things I never did, not saying things I know I did, he would hide various things of mine and I would mysteriously find them a few months later in very obvious places like the kitchen sink window - I do dishes daily. I even used to get threatening/harrasing phone calls at all hours of the day and night when he was not home telling me the caller knew where my husband was and with who and that they knew I was home alone..the last time I got a call I was able to figure out that it came from his place of employement. When I told him about it I never got another call - who would think their husband was behind something like that!! What kind of husband would do something like that? ) that I have become 100% dependent upon him - which is really pathetic and discouraging bc I am a VP in a large international corporation. My career was the only place he did not have much influence except for my self esteem.

Prior to my marriage to him, I had bought a home for my children and I, went to college (double major) full time, worked full time and raised my sons on my own (their dad was too far away) all simultaneously - so I was pretty self sufficient and independent. I am in counseling, and just need to try and get some of the old me back!!! One bright spot, my children have all said, I did manage to shield them from all the abuse (took it myself when he wanted to "attack" someone), so for that I am grateful!!!

My pastor was right when he said, my husband would not change, he would just find victim #5 and it looks like he has succeeded!!!

Thanks again for the confirmation of what I need to do/accept!!!

[Sameera]

Sorry that things have been so bad for you.

Don't feel bad about yourself, and don't think that you are pathetic. You aren't, by the sound of it your a rare sort of person who has managed to overcome a great deal of adversity in your life and managed to do well.

You shouldn't feel bad about yourself for your relationship with him. We all make mistakes and when it comes to matters of the heart we are even more vulnerable. What he has done is terrible and you shouldn't be blamed for that.

Right now do your best to start building that self confidence back up. You can do that by taking a look at what you have accomplished in life and knowing that most people are never capable of such things. Work on getting you back to where you want to be. Go out, have fun, spend time with the kids when you can and just try to make life as good as you possibly can. Don't let what he has done keep you down.

I hope you start feeling a bit better soon.

(((((( Mom2gr8guys ))))))

[Mom2gr8guys]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

(((((( Mom2gr8guys ))))))

Hi - Sorry to be dense but what does (((((( Mom2gr8guys )))))) mean?

That's a hug. (((((_)))))

[Mom2gr8guys]

Oh - Thank you!!! I appreciate it ALOT!!!!

This whole thing is so STUPID (my husband's behavior)!! At his age (52) does he not have the ability to see that he is doing a significant amount of damage to the future of his life (not to mention mine)??? He has virtually no savings of his own, will be living in an apartment bc the house stays with me, has been racking up debt since he left, and wants to retire bc he "has his time in".

With the kids now grown and essentially gone, we (I guess just me) were looking forward to being able to travel, at least take long weekend trips, spoil our g-kids, look realistically at retirement plans....all the things that "REAL" grown-ups do!! AND to appeal to his "N" said, we are close to my family and spend alot of time at some family owned vacation property. At any given time there are about 15 people around to naturally provide his needed "supply". That number can increase very easily to over 50 people and he LOVED the attention that he could generate from everyone!!!

Interestingly enough, his family just told me that over the course of our marriage he has been telling them that I "came from money", and was always taking him to black tie affairs so he had to buy himself a tux - He does not have one and I have NEVER been to a Black tie affair!! All I have done is work HARD and have been blessed to have had the successes in my career that I have.

I am just venting and feeling sorry for myself (I don't know if that is allowed or not!)

But does anyone know what mid-life is typically like for someone with this disorder. I am thinking he could actually get worse (I don't know how but...) and maybe as someone said "he gave me the Golden egg when he left".

Thanks for the thoughts!!!!

[jenkins09]

In order for your husband to change he has to have insight into his behavior, and that is the unfortunate thing with extreme personality disorders like your husbands. You need to understand that nothing you say or do will change him, you cant change him and wont change him. He has to want to change. My suggestion is find a good therapist and surround yourself with a great support system and dont look back.

[NuckingFutz]

It sounds like you know he is toxic and you are getting ready to start it. You will take action when you are ready and we can be there for you when that happens. Good luck and keep posting to let us updated. With him screwing around, he will not look durring divorce. You can use this as leverage during your divorce procedings. I think you are doing great so far! Very brave.

While it may not be what you are looking for, helping him may mean checking out the civil commitment laws in your state.

[Mom2gr8guys]

Thanks - in my head I know what you say is true...now if it would filter down to my heart....or at least the sensible part of me :-) I am so TIRED of the mind games and he is still playing them. Unfortunately, he had promised to help my son with a HUGE project - re-building the body of his jeep. My son bought the parts, has been doing as much as he could and viola...H stops showing up to help. Now I have a garage full of jeep body parts waiting to be welded, a jeep that you can't drive and a kid w/no car who is moving in 3 weeks to go back to college for the summer. Since I know that re-building cars like this is H's hobby, this little manuever is for the sole purpose of attacking me!!! I have not /and will not contac him - I am NOT going to feed his little "ego" or whatever. Unless someone out there has a different opinion or advice??!!

About the only thing that makes me smile or keeps me sane is the thought that even with his new gf - he must be one unhappy individual to keep playing these games considering he pretty much helped raise my son and is MUCH closer to him than any of the rest of the 5 kids - including his own!!! These are NOT the actions of a "VERY happy man" as he told me he was when he said he was not coming home!!!

Oh well - this too shall pass and I will figure out a plan B as always!!!

Fortunately, I have a good T and a WONDERFUL support group - which seems to be expanding daily!!! Once I heal from this I hope to be able to pay it forward and help / support others!!! After all I am so used to giving constant attention, I should be REALLY good at it

Again, thank you for your words of advice, they are much appreciated!

[Perna]

I would assume that your husband will eventually get worse, as his ability to "capture" attention wanes with his age. That he was at two affairs with two different sweet, young, things could mean that his or their "attention span" isn't jiving too well. Too, older men playing games like his get to be a known turn off for most "adults" and I don't think he'll get much stroking from inexperienced, younger people before long.

I don't think he understands that he's lit fire to his own rear end and is burning his own bridges. That's the only reason I'd feel sorry for him. But if he doesn't care enough about himself to go/stay in therapy then I'd see no reason to even feel sorry for him.

[Mom2gr8guys]

"With him screwing around, he will not look durring divorce. You can use this as leverage during your divorce procedings."

Hi - thank you for caring!! Can you explain what you meant by the above "will not look during divorce" look for what??? and how can that be used for leverage - I think I will need as MUCH leverage and strength as I can get - alot of his behavior at times, barely fits within the confines of being legal and certainly not morally right.

When we were dating he built (as a surprise for me) me a front porch - he has since threatened to pull off the front of my house since he "knows the weak points".

I also know I made him mad today bc I need an annual inspection on my house for the city and it is time sensitive. He has a friend with a business that specializes in what I need, (and has historically been who we have used) so I contacted the friend about what to do instead of my hubby. Did I mention I am NOT going to play his games!!! Now I can wait for the retaliation...wonder what it will be THIS time!

Our church has a total of 9 services at 3 dfferent locations - he informed me he will be attending the service that I do - this from a man who had quit going to church with me before he left!! Someone said I could switch services but I am NOT going to let him chase me away or intimidate me.

I may be in tears later missing the "better times" and scared of the future - but unless you have better advice or a different opinion, I don't know what else to do!!!

Question though - if I am so Devalued and forgotten about, why all the games??? When he was working with my son - it was during the day when I was at work and he was gone when I got home. He quit helping him on weekends when I would be home (I assumed he was just avoiding me since he knows or thinks that I want to see him). He has taken some inexpensive sentimental things of mine and won't give them back - actual divorce settlement will take care of those. Actually had a whole role of postage stamps go AWOL about 10 days ago when he was here with my son. I guess I have to try and remember by boys when they were about 3 years old!!!

AHHH - This is crazy!!!

[Mom2gr8guys]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

While it may not be what you are looking for, helping him may mean checking out the civil commitment laws in your state.

NOW that's a thought...have him committed :-)

Seriously, though I did have a talk with one of his older brothers last week about his (denied) DX (I gotta learn the abbreviations). Told him some of what has transpired through out our marriage and that I am probably the only one who knows about the NPD. My rational was in the event anything ever happens...his kids won't and aren't able to deal with anything like this - they are at least as dysfunctional as he is. Don't know if it was a good idea or not but what is done is done!

[seeker1950]

I was reluctant to post my thoughts here on your exp with this N.
I PM'd you. Check your private messages, MOM.
Patty

[Mom2gr8guys]

I don't think he understands that he's lit fire to his own rear end and is burning his own bridges. That's the only reason I'd feel sorry for him. But if he doesn't care enough about himself to go/stay in therapy then I'd see no reason to even feel sorry for him.[/quote]

I share your opinion of his future!! I know when I think about my future and hopefully some day finding a new person to share my life with (who has been approved by my 6 brothers in law ) his behavior is not necessarily at the top of my "wish list".

When I try to imagine what his younger childhood must have been like to develop this "safety net", my heart just breaks for him (AHHH - and he knows it!!) But the sympathy quickly ends when I remember how many times I have told him I would stand by him and support / help ...AND the support system I have for me now, would be gladly and naturally extended to him as well in something like this..(and he has as many siblings as I do which would double the number of people).He just chooses to ignore it. WHEN he is behaving himself, he is (or is faking being) actually a very enjoyabe person to be around! But yes - he is burning ALOT of bridges!!

[Mom2gr8guys]

Uh - oh, my husband is mad about something and I am not sure what. I don't think it is about having the house inspection. He is texting me about financial stuff, and just seems a little to "something", can't put my finger on it - nice, but in an out of character way - does anyone know what I mean? I am not crazy. Among other things, he offered to reimburse me for some bills I have been paying since he "ran away" - this is definitely NOT typical. Makes me wonder what I have to lose....

AND..yesterday he had promised my son to work on his jeep with him, but never showed up or even called. Since that promise was also for everyday this week - I told my son to not count on his step-dad today and to not even bother calling him to see if he was still coming over. (Why keep giving him his "supply" of adoration). My son was surprised when his step-dad called and said he would be right over.

He has left 2 of his passive / aggressive clues that he is mad:
) he brought his dog over with him, and naturally the dog poops a few times in the yard - it was always my husbands job to clean it up bc I had not wanted another dog after the last one died.
) second, he smokes (which I HATE) and proceeds to flick his "butts" all over the yard - another pet peeve of mine, he is within feet of a trash can!

Something just does not feel right....or could I possibly be over reacting? Has this type of stuff happened to anyone else???

No idea. Do you have serious concerns about your safety?

Sounds like he is trying to wind you up...

I would tell him to sling his hook and get someone else to help my son with his car.