Totally done

He's doing the predictable thing--being nice, hoping he'll change your mind. Give in to it, and it won't be long before he's back to his same old tricks.

Remember the cliche that you cannot change people. Its a cliche because its true. You may tell him the things you want to see (him making changes) and just because he may try them for a while, doesn't mean he's changing anything. Lynn's advice is really spot on, regardless of what you decide, you shouldn't live together right now.

And all that crap with him saying how dumb he is is done completely out of manipulation. He knows you like to help people and he's going to play off of that.

I know. I know that he has to not like these things about himself and want to change for himself. I want to feel like him seeing me cry and knowing that he was the cause just absolutely kills him. And I also know that his school (he went to a lutheran school growing up) and his family does not allow men to show emotions what so ever. And I just asked, who has been here for you no matter what? Through all the crap that has happened in the last 1.5 years? Who has been supportive of you whether you had money or were unemployed? And I was like, if you can't allow yourself to be vulnerable around me then that is the nail in the coffin. And i told him that if he really did love me as much as he says he does, then he would let me go so he could work on himself to be a better person.

I wish that I could be the person that just changed the locks while he was gone and have him come home to all his crap on the lawn but I just can't. No matter how mad I get, I'm still a softy. If he really is just doing this to keep me around and not for good then I imagine it wont take more than a week or so for him to go back to old behaviors.

I think I'm going to ask him about counseling. I figure if he is willing to do that then he might actually be serious about changing because I do know what its like to want to change certain things but not really know where to start. But if he comes up with an excuse or says he doesn't want to then that lets me know that he is just bs-ing me. I guess some of the reason Im more lenient is that I used to be the same way and just fly off the handle over nothing, start crying for no reason, I used to be insanely jealous and verbally abuse my ex. I know that the whole time I hated myself but just didn't know how to change or where to start and once I started going to a T and reading some self-help type materials on depression I started learning more about myself. And if he can go through this process of self-discovery and come out as a better person then I know our relationship would be stronger for having gone through this together. And I know that realizing you need help is half the battle and if he realizes it but just doesn't know what to do, then I feel like that is half of the process.

Perhaps not on point but worth thinking about:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...-dating-abuser
http://publicaffairs.uth.tmc.edu/hle...epingenemy.htm

What I'm curious of is that, if he sees these abusive tendencies in himself, CAN he change?

Anything is possible saluki, but what is important is how many times they attempt to or say they will change and then revert within a couple of weeks, in some cases days, to their old patterns.

And those who stay don't stay because they want to help the abuser, it is because they do not have enough self love or respect to simply say "NO!"

Cheers,

Rhia

That's a very big "if." The vast majority of abusers never admit to being abusers. It is "never" their fault; but always the fault of the victims, who "deserve it" or "push them into it." Or they outright deny that any abuse even happened. The victim "misunderstood," or is "lying" or "delusional" or "oversensitive." If the victim has mental illness, I've seen it used to the abuser's advantage. "Don't believe her, officer. She's crazy. She doesn't know what she's talking about."

IF he were to acknowledge having abusive tendencies (which is highly unlikely), and IF he were to undergo years of therapy and hard work to overcome it (which is even less likely), then and only then *might* he change. But why waste your life waiting for that to happen, when you can find a man who will treat you with the respect you deserve, right from the get-go? Contrary to what some of us have experienced, after all, abusers are a small minority of the population. Most people are normal.

Which leads me to: I was raised in an environment of child abuse, and I married into spouse abuse, but I eventually found myself a normal man. Why couldn't I find one sooner, if most people are normal and not abusers? For several reasons:

1.) I didn't think I "qualified" for a normal, non-problematic man, since I have issues myself. I thought it was unfair and presumptuous of me to expect a boyfriend or husband who did not also have major issues.
2.) Like most victims/survivors, I thought the abusive behavior was "normal," or else I made excuses to justify it. For example, I married my first husband *after* I'd seen him slap his own mother's face. And this was a woman who could barely walk--she was in the latter stages of MS. How did I justify it? Well, she was very difficult to get along with. Her mouth worked just fine, and oh boy did she use it. There were times I'd been tempted to slap the woman myself. But it was no excuse. **Being tempted and doing it are two very different things.** What made me think, if I married a man who would slap his own mother, that he wouldn't slap me too, if he got angry? He certainly did. Abusers will abuse anyone they're with. They are abusers. That's what they do.
3.) IMPORTANT: To a person who is accustomed to abuse and drama, life with a normally healthy partner seems boring. Abusers come on like a whirlwind and sweep us off our feet. It took me years to figure out, the boring men are the ones we want. They are the ones who will respect us, give us space when we need it, comfort us when we're down, and let us grow as human beings.

And *everyone* deserves that.

Good luck to you.
I hope you find the happiness you deserve soon.
I haven't read any other posts by you as I'm new here.
From what others wrote it seems like you have been having problems with your bf for a while.
I would say do what the others told you and move on soon. What do you need from him? He seems like he is holding you back.

That was a fantastic post, Lovebirds!

And truly Saluki, I think you are being so kind and wonderful. I see you giving him the benefit of the doubt. No matter what we say, it comes down to what you want. You know if you are done. For me its like a switch. Once I flip that switch, it doesn't matter how much longer I am with the man, its over for me. You need to decide if its over.

So we talked for another 4-5 hours last night and he actually did admit that he has been abusive. And he said that if he gets this job he has been interviewed for with benefits that he will go to counseling. I said that no matter what, whether I go or stay, he has to do something or else he will never have a healthy relationship. At first he was denying some things because I had him go through this checklist of things an abuser will do and he said that he doesn't feel that he controls me. Then I said, even if you are not physically moving my arms to make me do something, me being terrified of how you will react if I mess up or do something wrong is still you controlling me. So after he read through the article he said that the only thing he really doesn't do is the jealousy part or make me not see my friends or family which he doesn't.

So he has asked me if I called the landlord yet because I showed him the apt I would move into if he kept this stuff up which I think is what really made it set in that i was serious. He also said that he knows that if he could just learn not to hold in his feelings he would probably be a lot happier and not come off so angry which I agree with.

And he did a little self-exploration last night and kind of found (on his own) that his father treated him the same way and made it so that when he was growing up he was not allowed to show emotion or cry or anything. He knows that his dad talks bad to his mom and he hates the way his dad acts and I think he kind of started to see that he is just continuing the cycle and acting just like his dad. There was more crying, of course. And he has been apologizing non-stop.

Ok, I know weve never really talked much on here. But I wanted to give my opinion. Little background. my dad was possessive of my mom. wouldnt even let her visit her MOM...he emotionally abused her constantly..I turned out this way. with my HUSBAND. Im abusive in other ways. emotionally.....I dont let him go out. I watch his cell phone bill. I dont let him do very much without a long winded argument. I never let him have any of his own paycheck. Last month He gave me an ultimatum after 17 years. to either end the abuse or leave. I am in Therapy to help myself change. I understand why I do this now. and I am more conscious of how I handle things. I try to back away on certain things. Let him take charge.

I think everybody can change. Im trying because I love my husband. I just wish he would have had the guts to tell me sooner than 17 years.

Colleen

Thank you so much Cthomas for your story. I feel deep down that he truly does love me which I have never felt with a person before. I feel like he truly does believe that these actions are okay and seeing how they affect others is half the battle. And I do realize that I should have spoken up sooner and said "Im not allowing you to talk to me like this". I guess at first I just thought "I can handle some jokes every now and then because I make fun of him too" but eventually it just got to be too much.

That's why I'm voicing it now after 1.5 years because I don't want to go that far and get married for it to just escalate.

Thanks! I think my husband kept thinging I would just drop what was making me mean. He just kept pushing it off till he reached his limit. I know I have a problem. Good for you for voicing how you feel right now. It took the threat of a divorce to get me to change.

I really believe it can be done. good luck to you. I hope it works out good!
Colleen

From all your posts, I don't see abuse, mostly just lack of agreement/communication and lots of anger/frustration on both of you all's parts. I don't understand what you all's agreements are about money, chores, etc.? I understand you want things a certain way but I think a lot of what you (and he) complain about is in each of your individual heads and there's not much joint discussion.

If you cook all the time, unasked/discussed, you have taken that on and I'd be hurt, confused, angry too if that changed suddenly. I can't imagine making my own dinner and not making my husband's or discussing what to do about dinner if I don't feel like making it, etc. But then we have an agreement, I cook and he does dishes. One can't just assume another person is going to do X, Y, or Z because we'd like them to or because we're doing A, B, and C.

I do the "joint" laundry like bath towels. We both do our own personal, clothes laundry according to our own schedules. I find it amusing that my husband tells me his towel (on the towel rack in the bathroom) smells bad instead of just throwing it in his dirty laundry bag and getting a new one from the closet. I'm sure I could teach him to do that but I would literally have to teach him that, he's never done it that way! He cannot know what is in MY head and how I was taught to do things and what looks obvious to me (and I'm sure, you). All of that has to be taught/negotiated.

If your boyfriend has never handled money, then yes, he's gonna be lousy at it! We all are at first, we all have to learn to do what we do; we aren't born knowing how to care for ourselves and being good at all things that other people are good at.

I remember bringing in a "visual" for my therapist, a "Bisquick biscuit basket" :-) I had made a bunch of them and put a hot chicken and gravy sort of dinner in them the night before my therapy appointment and had had trouble with the baking for specific traumatic/emotional reasons I wanted to discuss in that therapy session. She was amazed at my cooking skill! She told me about her orientation to cooking and how she had to read directions, etc. and how all that differed from my more intuitive, laid back, ease of cooking style. I am not amazed at my cooking skill because I grew up with it/it just "is" for me. I have brown hair, is that remarkable? It probably is to a bunch of Scandinavians who have never been out of their own town?

I don't think your boyfriend has had to do much for himself but I don't think anyone has ever helped him learn how, either. I do a lot for my husband rather than teach him how but I accept that. He once asked me to teach him how to choose meat at the grocery store and we started a lesson and within 2 minutes he said, "Never mind, let's just keep doing it the way we do it!" We had our cooking/wash dishes agreement in place so that was fine with me. Over the last 25 years I've taught him to pick hamburger meat and certain steaks, how to cook pancakes and he taught himself to cook omelettes so now he cooks his own big breakfast each morning and I can count on him to occasionally cook us hamburgers, hot dogs, or some meat I've prepared for the outdoor grill :-) I've "encouraged" him to read package directions and make microwave dinners too. But, his pancakes are too thick for my liking and he's slow when making anything else because he is very meticulous (like my T) and reads the directions (and then may have trouble understanding them :-) but that is what it is! He's not me. I can choose; do it myself, faster and with less heartburn or let him learn and me learn to relax a bit and not insist everything be done "my" way.